Crossbow shield penetration
For a crossbow to penetrate a shield it's damage will have to be above 30 + 3*(shield's armor). What this means is that without taking speed bonus (you running towards the shooter) into account a loomed arbalestman at close range will probably shoot through shields with less than 20 resistance (30 + 20*3 = 90 damage). At under 15 shield resistance (30 + 15*3 = 75 damage) you start to seriously risk getting your shield penetrated by a bolt.
Xbows shoot through my 3x heirloomed huscarl shield all the time.
Something is wrong where if they shoot the right spot it just goes through.
Why are xbowers regular infantrymen when they put away their xbow?
What kind of shield? Paper?You know what those crossbowmen have to get to shoot through your shield. A crossbow and bolts, that's all. I find crossbows dealing damage through shields a lame mechanic, which should only apply if the shield is near breaking.
A board shield? Plain Board Shield for example? You should get some steel shield, they wont shoot through it while you have 6 shield skill and more. 4 isn't enough, get more!
Mw arbalest + mw steel bolts deals 100 pierce damage, which means that around 15% speed bonus would be enough to penetrate it, if i didn't fuck up maths :DYou fucked up your physics though. Bolts and arrows fly very fast relative to the movement speed of a man or even a horse, 15% when talking infantry simply doesn't happen. A bolt goes like 60 m/s in real life, probably quite a bit faster in game, so any infantry's movement speed which is probably like 3 m/s max when holding up a shield is only going to add 5% speedbonus. This might be a little more damage wise, but in general when discussing infantry and arrows/bolts, dragging speed bonus along is fairly pointless.
A bolt goes like 60 m/s in real life, probably quite a bit faster in game, so any infantry's movement speed which is probably like 3 m/s max when holding up a shield is only going to add 5% speedbonus.Careful, speed bonus isn't linear. A 3 m/s increase in speed would actually lead to a 9.7% speed bonus.
Why is cav infantry if they get dehorsed?
Off topic, but they are shit infantry when dehorsed unless high level. Riding needs a skill point investment, xbows don't.
Careful, speed bonus isn't linear. A 3 m/s increase in speed would actually lead to a 9.7% speed bonus.What's the formula then? Didn't know there was one available.
You would only need a 4.58 m/s increase to get a 15% speed bonus.
What's the formula then? Didn't know there was one available.(Combined impact speed / initial projectile speed) ^ 1.9 for ranged attacks.
It happens all the time and I have 4 shield skill and 21 armour shield. Don't remember it happening as much with my 1 skill 7 armour one before, or its just that I play with the shield more now so notice it more
Grumpy when cav is dehorsed he still has put like 6 points into riding which detracts from his infantry ability. Xbows have to dedicate nothing of worth.
My build at level 30- (15-27)3 ps , 5 ath, 9 wm/ 170 wpf in xbow, 85 in 1h.
So your general statement saying xbows have to dedicate nothing of worth.I'll give you that, I'm just as effective with 85 wpf in 1h as I am with 180 wpf in 1h. Only difference I notice is slightly faster swings. but It's not our fault wpf is valued at nothing. I still spend well over 70% of my points on Range in my build. So its not quite fair for us either that some random infantry guy can just pick up our crossbow with 0 investment be almost as accurate, reloading only slightly slower and dealing the same damage. Saying in general; xbows don't invest anything is propaganda at best. Not everyone invest points the same, it differs from person to person, in my case 6 point investment in riding is less than 9 point investment in wm.
I've been a xbow for awhile now and I can say I do shoot through peoples shields quite often but a few things to keep in mind. That guy is always moving towards me or has very very low shield skill. The shield still absorbs most of the damage *only time it actually hurts significantly is a headshot through the shield*, but I can still see why that would be annoying.
The problem with crossbows is the fact that anyone can pick one up off the ground and be as nearly as effective as someone who is a dedicated build, especially so at close range.(click to show/hide)
You get shieldskill and a shield to not get shot.
There's a mechanic that makes you still take damage even if you have a shield and are facing the guy shooting you.
There's something seriously wrong with this...(click to show/hide)
well yeah that would be cool, but the problem is, that even when the shield gets broken, it still deflects the projectile away.That's what the "make it so..." was for.
That's what the "make it so..." was for.
Why do xbows shoot straight through my 4 skill shield like it is paper and do damage to me?
Why are xbowers regular infantrymen when they put away their xbow?
If you have 6 shieldskill it would need the crossbow to deal 30+3*24*1.08^6 = 114.25 damage
For a crossbow to penetrate a shield it's damage will have to be above 30 + 3*(shield's armor). What this means is that without taking speed bonus (you running towards the shooter) into account a loomed arbalestman at close range will probably shoot through shields with less than 20 resistance (30 + 20*3 = 90 damage). At under 15 shield resistance (30 + 15*3 = 75 damage) you start to seriously risk getting your shield penetrated by a bolt.
If you have 6 shieldskill it would need the crossbow to deal 30+3*24*1.08^6 = 114.25 damageWhere did you come up with that formula? Everything I've read has it purely a function of shield armor, with shield skill having no effect:
Thanks to you I'm not sure if shieldskill is even being useful against penetration :mrgreen:
I think the defensive buff is actually pretty good, but it's not too useful since you can just pick up another shield. It doesn't really make you any better at fighting by increasing it. Don't really think bolts should penetrate shields, because it just makes the bad shields even worse. The good shields already rarely/never get penetrated.
With 6 or 7 shield skill, I've had the following experiences against +3 arbalests with +3 steel bolts (100 pierce dmg):
19 shield armor (+3 Heavy Round Shield)-Frequently penetrated
21 shield armor (+3 Hand Pavise Shield)-Occasionally penetrated
25 shield armor (+3 Elite Cavalry Shield)-Rarely penetrated (once or twice with max speed bonus at pointe blank range)
35-37 shield armor (+3 Knightly kite/heater)-never penetrated (except by ballista)
So assume speed bonus could get the damage up to 125 pierce, that would make the minimum required shield armor to avoid penetration ~32, which jives with my observations, and the original equation in the game mechanic thread (which doesn't include the shield skill).
I wish shield skill affected penetration, because that would open up a bunch of shields for consideration. But right now if you want a shield larger than a buckler with 100+ speed that won't get penetrated by bolts, you have two choices. Pretty boring. It's a shame that some skills (shield, riding, weapon master) are such poor investments above the item requirements. I really wish they would buff these skills, because right now you have lvl 34 guys running around with specs like 30/18 and all their points in power strike/athletics (because other skills are so weak in comparison), and they are unstoppable juggernaughts.
Nevertheless I think bolt penetration is fine in cRPG. Never had a problem with it as a shielder.
Why have it for people with less shield skill though? People would always go on about "get a shield", but the lower skill ones suck and are heavy. Its not really a viable counter argument to ranged as I've found out. If you put too many points into shield you get to the point where you might as well just play as a primary shield class.This.
You get shieldskill and a shield to not get shot.
There's a mechanic that makes you still take damage even if you have a shield and are facing the guy shooting you.
There's something seriously wrong with this...
all depends on the shield :( My +3 Heavy round shield with 7 Shield skill gets shot through virtually every time (which makes me rage hard as it deals tons of damage still):( huscarl hardly at all, Now i cant really close down an xbower head on because i just know he will fire though my shield and take half my hp. but heavy round does look badass :D
Grumpy when cav is dehorsed he still has put like 6 points into riding which detracts from his infantry ability. Xbows have to dedicate nothing of worth. 1 handers are not underpowered before you say that :D
A way for shield skill to decrease penetration chance irl would be to change the impact angle of the incoming projectile with tilting the shield a bit. That way the effective armour thickness would increase. Nevertheless I think bolt penetration is fine in cRPG. Never had a problem with it as a shielder.
Shields barely helps against ranged. Shot over the shield, under the shield and through the shield constantly. While shields are boss for mass melee, just dodging is a better option than using a shield versus ranged. Quite sad really.
today I managed to get through a shield two times with mw heavy xbow and mw steel bolts
Now aim at the head when you shoot at the shield and see ;)Also, jumpthrows.
You can both use shield and dodge.
^^
You can both use shield and dodge.
^^