IF is too weak ? You are out of your mind.cool, more insta-kills!
Remove free HP from STR, give a +2 damage buff to all attacks of all melee weapons and voila STR fixed.
HP stuff is too hardcoded iirc.
Athletics definitely doesn't need a buff. It's the most powerful infantry skill already.
thats why 13 ath guys totally dominate compared to 13 ps guys.
Athletics definitely doesn't need a buff. It's the most powerful infantry skill already. Weapon master buff? Sure, it's below average skill.
I would like all 0IF builds to be a little less tempting than they are right now.
Some sort of rework of the damage system via xenoargh's fancy damage system could also work, with higher wpf causing more favorable simulated soak/reduction rolls.The randomness in soak/reduce rolls is almost nonexistent after a couple patches ago. That being said, it would be interesting to have WPF actively reduce soak and reduce.
If HP gain is hardcoded into STR that is a problem, unless the yield can be altered - because currently people can make huge STR builds and forego IF because they get so much from STR itself. Instead, they just put all the points into PS.
Maybe HP gains from STR could STOP being received above 27 STR or something?
Also, yeah WPF/WM is too weak in its impact, or rather - the effect of NOT having it is too minimal.
(I don't understand what a flat WPF reduction means/would do)As things stand now, armor encumbrance reduces your WPF by a percentage. This means that high-WM builds are disproportionately punished by encumbrance, whereas low-WM builds lose fewer WPF points.
Thanks for explaining WPF % reduction...I thought we were already on a flat reduction rate... :oops:
san wouldn't your concerns be moot if they went with the flat reduction vs %? Or is that exactly what you're saying? These mechanics + maths are not for the layman :?
Right now it's % based. So basically, if you get a lot of wpf and wear barely any decent protection for a melee, you get your wpf reduced almost twice as much as someone who didn't put any points in WM. To put it bluntly, they're rewarded for no reason. Change the wpf curve and the problem will still be there, str crutchers would barely lose any wpf and agi builds will just wear no armor and attack lightning fast. The wpf ceiling is already pretty high, but then wpf gets reduced to 120-140 for almost everyone. Armor already makes you slower and high agi builds can't wear certain armor anyways (difficulty for body armor is quite low IMO), so it's overly punishing.
Edit:
@Jona
Movement speed reduction from weight is surprisingly fair IMO. I previously thought that heavy armor made agility builds move almost as slow as strength builds in the same armor, but according to this chart from WaltF4, it's actually quite linear. (source: http://forum.melee.org/beginner%27s-help-and-guides/running-in-crpg/)Draw a horizontal line at any weight value and you see that you move as fast as if you had ~7-8 lighter weight of armor for 3agi+1ath.(click to show/hide)
An agi build with decent armor still moves quite fast. Plate-tier armor is around the 30-35 weight value. (4h+24b+2g+3l = 33 for instance)
I remember a person did do some acceleration tests on the arena map a few years back, but I can't find it. Without some sort of frame advance tech, it'll be difficult to get anything concrete just from personal experience. I can't really tell with just my 5ath and 8ath characters whether or not acceleration is more heavily affected. Don't have heavy armor, too.. When I had 18 weight body armor and 8ath, I still felt like my acceleration was good. With my 5ath character, anything past 13 body armor is quite slow. This is something that needs to be looked at frame by frame.
In the end, I just assume the running is close to the acceleration.
if you can video with stable fps that might be a way to figure out acceleration directly. Without trying to derive it from timing runs at different lengths.
Zoom in and stand far away for most accurate results. And let the player start the run mid-frame.
Shield sounds great in single player. So does Weapon Master (helps you gain wpf quicker along with the base amount added). But in multiplayer, shields are plentiful, so it's similar to riding giving horses more armor and health.
IF is a great throwaway skill until you directly compare it to other skills.
For melee, it's a choice of 6-7IF vs. 1Ath: allowing up to 7.5 weight more armor that would protect you better than 12-14 health. Getting negative speed bonus or moving into opponent's poor attack areas also help better than a mere ~14 extra health.
or 6-7IF vs. 1.5IF + 1PS: Killing opponents in less hits, stacks well with high base damage weapons, and you only lose 7 health.
Even 4-6 WM is worth more than a PS. Because PS doesn't scale as well with 1h weapons, I chose the former route on my main today. Switched to 18-27 0IF with good armor and I already got complaints about how many hits it takes to kill me by the 2nd map. 0IF needs to be more punishing, especially with higher strength. Even 18 strength gives me similar health to 12 strength 4IF, only 2 tiers away. 24 and higher and you get a significant power increase while still being as tanky as the playerbase, if not more.
what level are you? just wondering because at 30, 18-27 only gives you 11 skill points which seems useless, at 31 you would only have 14 which is still useless (9 ath, 5PS), 32 would get you 17 which is still inconceivable (9ath, 6PS, 2 shield), 33 would be 20 (9ath, 6PS, 5WM)? Did you miss type or do you have magical skill points? I know you have at least 4 shield, 6PS, 9ath, but saw you on a cataphract horse too so you had 5 riding as well. It just doesnt add up so I'm guessing it was a typo?
And yes if that was 0IF, I hit you with a 42 cut wep with 7PS a lot and you lived :D
My only issue with strength is how it enables ridiculously large sweet spots, particularly with 2h animations. Duel someone like Tretter that's full strength+plate 2h;
-you use your superior agility to maneuver behind him, thinking you've set up a perfect strike
-you swing and glance, because plate
-he isn't even remotely facing you, but he swings anyway and hits for full damage because power strike
Strength builds are actually rewarded for bad footwork. Agility builds are punished for good footwork.
I'd like to see the animation sweet spot size be purely a function of weapon master or wpf, instead of raw damage. That alone would fix agility/strength balance, IMHO.
agilityMod = (agility * 0.7 + athletics * 3.0 + 25.0);
weaponWeightMod = wieldedItemWeight * wieldedItemLength * 2.5;
maxSpeed = (agilityMod * 70.0 / (equippedItemsWeight + weaponWeightMod + 70.0) + 90.0) / 100.0;
agilityModAccel = (athletics / 6.0 + (agility + 2.0) / 15.0);
maxAcceleration = (agilityModAccel * 40.0 / (equippedItemsWeight + 40.0) + 1.0) * 70.0 / (equippedItemsWeight + 70.0) * 5.0;
We are still awaiting the WM rework right? Idk where Tydeus took that one..
Reverting the 1h stab damage buffs before the animation change is mostly just -1 pierce (not a big deal) and puts the weapons at more of a 1:1 damage tradeoff with the italian sword, the most "balanced" 1h. Side Sword had -1 pierce, -1 cut, and +1 speed before, not sure if that's better or worse than what we have now. Scottish got heavily buffed, but it only needs a small readjustment to put it in line with the other shortswords.
Indeed, I too like where the Italian sword is. Unfortunately, I think it's time we start duplicating item stats.
I think 1h thrust was underpowered before the new sweetspots, now it's a bit overpowered. I'd say, something in between would be the best. Awlpike and 2h thrusts should be a little bit tweaked too.
Strength versus agility? It's fine at the moment.
Currently testing various 1hers, particularly gauging thrusts. I have yet to be convinced anything major needs done. I've stolen several 1hers from the Nordmen armory but I still, personally, find their NCS to be the best with my 15/24 1h/throwing hybrid. Well, my Niuweidao, then their NCS.So you're this bigoli who's currently molesting my beautiful 1handed swords!
So you're this bisoli who's currently molesting my beautiful 1handed swords!Bigoli! Get your pasta right, son.
Bigoli! Get your pasta right, son.Whoopsy daisy.