cRPG

Strategus => Diplomacy => Topic started by: sWalker on August 18, 2013, 03:46:07 am

Title: The battle of Nova Fenada...
Post by: sWalker on August 18, 2013, 03:46:07 am
Today our hero the sWalker, strikes out with his bow to earn some more gold for his tavern.  A new foe, the Frisian's, met our hero on the other side of the battlefield this day.  The sWalker sees that his old pals of Chaos have trained this new group well in the use of long stabby pikes...the sWalker has many holes that need repair *damn my new shirt, the sWalker thinks*.  The sWalker must need a new bow, because these Frisian's, with their shiny armor, took 4-5 arrows a piece to put down.  Amazing strength that the sWalker only use to remember from Goretooth.  Our hero went 52-22, but it was an effort in vain as the village was lost.  Negga slotted the most kills with 76, and the hero of the battle was Horns_Donkey_Dockter_MD who went 75-28.  Back to sWalker's famous tavern our hero heads for cold mead and ice for the wounds...
Title: Re: The battle of Nova Fenada...
Post by: kasMVC on August 18, 2013, 03:49:00 am
Very good rp
Title: Re: The battle of Nova Fenada...
Post by: sWalker on August 18, 2013, 03:57:53 am
What is this "RP" you speak of sir...the sWalker does not take kindly to being mocked.  Explain yourself forthright good sir, or a duel will follow.
Title: Re: The battle of Nova Fenada...
Post by: Jack1 on August 18, 2013, 04:04:20 am
Whenever I read your stuff all I hear in my head is "it puts the lotion on its skin"
Title: Re: The battle of Nova Fenada...
Post by: Nightingale on August 18, 2013, 04:05:42 am
Want to point out a few things though.

1: Lordly Grey Corrazina Armor 
57 body armor

Lordly Heavy Yawshan
59 body armor

Is 2 body armor deference really that big of a deal? FCC generally has Heavier armor than them anyway. even with Frisian "Clown" armor FCC still has more armor with their heaviest set.

2: Chaos hasn't taught Frisia anything lol

3: just about everyone these days takes 3-5 arrows.
If you don't stack strength then you aren't playing strat right, unfortunately.

Welcome back to the land of who has more strength and heavier armor.
Title: Re: The battle of Nova Fenada...
Post by: Canuck on August 18, 2013, 04:17:13 am
It's ok sWalker, I only take 1 or 2 even with the armour, and I don't like it either
Title: Re: The battle of Nova Fenada...
Post by: sWalker on August 18, 2013, 04:26:41 am
The sWalker was only noting that they used long spears like the battles of old...nothing more.  And the sWalker did not notice any numbers on the shiny armor, just that a new bow was needed because the mortal bow the sWalker was using was not up to par...Nightingale must be tired and hallucinating from all the killing today.
Title: Re: The battle of Nova Fenada...
Post by: Keshian on August 18, 2013, 06:57:21 am
Want to point out a few things though.

1: Lordly Grey Corrazina Armor 
57 body armor

Lordly Heavy Yawshan
59 body armor

Is 2 body armor deference really that big of a deal? FCC generally has Heavier armor than them anyway. even with Frisian "Clown" armor FCC still has more armor with their heaviest set.

2: Chaos hasn't taught Frisia anything lol

3: just about everyone these days takes 3-5 arrows.
If you don't stack strength then you aren't playing strat right, unfortunately.

Welcome back to the land of who has more strength and heavier armor.


I think he was just noting they had 20 more body armor than us for most of the fight where they barely pulled better than a 1 to 1 until near the very end getting on top of flags.  Also, that many of the frisians have joined the chaos crowd in using very long weapons that only require use of the s key and left click and currently 1-2 shot people despite giving the range of a bow because devs never took the time to balance their damage output with their utility.  Notably 1/5th to 1/4th your team was using a deadly pike, so yeah it was a little noticeable that more people are switching to FOTM.
Title: Re: The battle of Nova Fenada...
Post by: Sandersson Jankins on August 18, 2013, 07:39:41 am
Polearm is overpowered, two-handed weapons and arbalests need a major buff. In addition, pikes are brutally effective during attacks because they have a natural advantage while using the W-key and have massive inherent damage that can literally kill most people in a single hit.

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ATTENTION: MASSIVE SHIT-TALKING ALERT

IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO VIEW MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF RUDE SHIT-TALKING DO NOT OPEN THIS SPOILER

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DO NOT VIEW THIS SPOILER IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO SEE NUMBERS

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Title: Re: The battle of Nova Fenada...
Post by: Zaren on August 18, 2013, 07:53:00 am
best kd fcc second battle  in a row...pay up bitches
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Title: Re: The battle of Nova Fenada...
Post by: dreadnok on August 18, 2013, 07:54:35 am
Want to point out a few things though.

1: Lordly Grey Corrazina Armor 
57 body armor

Lordly Heavy Yawshan
59 body armor

Is 2 body armor deference really that big of a deal? FCC generally has Heavier armor than them anyway. even with Frisian "Clown" armor FCC still has more armor with their heaviest set.

2: Chaos hasn't taught Frisia anything lol

3: just about everyone these days takes 3-5 arrows.
If you don't stack strength then you aren't playing strat right, unfortunately.

Welcome back to the land of who has more strength and heavier armor.



Of course tho. Its not one bit fun being black barred by one arrow or bolt and horse charged every godamn time. I don't blame anyone going full strength
Title: Re: The battle of Nova Fenada...
Post by: sWalker on August 18, 2013, 08:10:57 am
The sWalker loves shit talking...more battles to fight because of the rage between the two sides  :D.  And Zaren is that a picture of what you look like on this magic box...if not then you get no hearts  :wink:.
Title: Re: The battle of Nova Fenada...
Post by: Aderyn on August 18, 2013, 08:35:10 am

Of course tho. Its not one bit fun being black barred by one arrow or bolt and horse charged every godamn time. I don't blame anyone going full strength

Unless it's to the head i SERIOUSLY doubt an arrow has ever blackbarred you.
Title: Re: The battle of Nova Fenada...
Post by: Malaclypse on August 18, 2013, 10:21:22 am
Kesh's gonna Kesh.
Title: Re: The battle of Nova Fenada...
Post by: Keshian on August 18, 2013, 02:02:44 pm
(click to show/hide)

ATTENTION: MASSIVE SHIT-TALKING ALERT

IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO VIEW MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF RUDE SHIT-TALKING DO NOT OPEN THIS SPOILER

(click to show/hide)

DO NOT VIEW THIS SPOILER IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO SEE NUMBERS

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Yawn.  Too many inaccurate statements to bother posting corrections in the morning.

P.S.  Less tired now.  Also, I was complimenting most of our mercs during the battle - I couldn't believe how organized they were compared to the enemy that they were able to do a 1 for 1 against vastly more head and body armor and loomed weapons (hounskull bascinet versus our mail coifs and 60ish body armor compared to our 40ish body armor).  I think that was the general gist that came at the end that superior organization with a solid roster of people who know what they are doing can almost counter vastly inferior gear.  Sorry we don't carebear with 80% of the map as allies for pulling our merc pool from, but the few mercs we get tend to be organized, skilled and intelligent.  Also, I would highly recommend cikel and jack1 not fucking with swalker - he will fuck you up even in plate (52-22).

 
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Title: Re: The battle of Nova Fenada...
Post by: Jack1 on August 18, 2013, 03:29:14 pm


my friends can beat up your friends

 
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Title: Re: The battle of Nova Fenada...
Post by: Keshian on August 18, 2013, 03:39:42 pm
I'm 12.  I'm, like, such a super, like awesome troll and everyone thinks I'm so super awesome and funny, I just know it. 


Title: Re: The battle of Nova Fenada...
Post by: Jack1 on August 18, 2013, 03:58:09 pm
in all reality though kesh, you just seem to look like a 12 year old that will do anything to get attention. at least in the forums and when faced with a situation where someone is better or does better all you can do is come up with either excuses or the "my dad can beat you up" comebacks. Very rarely do you come up with legitimate arguments that prove that you or your group is better while NOT lieing
Title: Re: The battle of Nova Fenada...
Post by: Keshian on August 18, 2013, 04:08:40 pm
in all reality though kesh, you just seem to look like a 12 year old that will do anything to get attention. at least in the forums and when faced with a situation where someone is better or does better all you can do is come up with either excuses or the "my dad can beat you up" comebacks. Very rarely do you come up with legitimate arguments that prove that you or your group is better while NOT lieing


Hahahaha.  its spelled lying (obviously not a mistype) - don't worry they should teach you that in 6th grade hopefully.  And keep pretending you have any skill off a triple-loomed warhorse man.

You know I think i would have less to make fun of you with except your faction always tries to talk mad shit, but has accomplished almost nothing - never even attacked a city or castle once (would hurt your e-peen too much).  To be fair you probably could never take a castle or city by force if your lives depended on it, but occasionally attacking shitty villages with full plate armor and +3 large warhorses for 12 months seems kind of a waste of time unless you are so juvenile that your e-peen guides all your decisions. 

Its why we sold and gave away most of our villages before your carebear alliance, that outnumbers us 4:1, even got around to attacking.  We have had much worse odds in our favor and fought multiple factions at same time and taken castles and cities despite it - you guys have most of NA on your side and its taken you (occitan, frisians, hospitallers, lost legion - with merc/troop support from half a dozen other factions) over 3 months of your "war" to do pretty much nothing but grab a few useless villages that we couldn't sell, while we keep focusing on our castles/cities with 2K+ prosperity.

Oh well, keep spawn killing naked peasants and spend half your time talking about how awesome your e-peen skills are.
Title: Re: The battle of Nova Fenada...
Post by: Jack1 on August 18, 2013, 04:09:23 pm
further display of what I just said. thank you for the example kesh.

Edit: for the stuff edited in after the first line.



You know I think i would have less to make fun of you with except your faction always tries to talk mad shit, but has accomplished almost nothing - never even attacked a city or castle once (would hurt your e-peen too much).  To be fair you probably could never take a castle or city by force if your lives depended on it, but occasionally attacking shitty villages with full plate armor and +3 large warhorses for 12 months seems kind of a waste of time unless you are so juvenile that your e-peen guides all your decisions. 

Why in hell would a small faction like Frisia attack a castle/city when you have villages where it is easier to get a win or 1-1 KDR? Are you literally that retarted?



Its why we sold and gave away most of our villages before your carebear alliance, that outnumbers us 4:1, even got around to attacking.  We have had much worse odds in our favor and fought multiple factions at same time and taken castles and cities despite it - you guys have most of NA on your side and its taken you (occitan, frisians, hospitallers, lost legion - with merc/troop support from half a dozen other factions) over 3 months of your "war" to do pretty much nothing but grab a few useless villages that we couldn't sell, while we keep focusing on our castles/cities with 2K+ prosperity.
1. It's less than 1.5-1, not even close to 4-1
2. Could you by any chance tell me what castles those where and who you were fighting?

Oh well, keep spawn killing naked peasants and spend half your time talking about how awesome your e-peen skills are.

Don't get yourself into that situation.
Title: Re: The battle of Nova Fenada...
Post by: BoneSaw on August 18, 2013, 04:36:10 pm
I was level 8 drunk during battle(go figure) and on horseback. The wall of spears made short work of the heroic cavalry efforts. Every hole on my lovely body was kissed by spears  before and during my death roll from the saddle.
Title: Re: The battle of Nova Fenada...
Post by: sWalker on August 18, 2013, 09:42:12 pm
Oh the rage....it makes the sWalker stronger...many more battle loom on the horizon from the tone of these warriors' statements...you can feel the hate.
Title: Re: The battle of Nova Fenada...
Post by: Canary on August 19, 2013, 12:28:27 am
Basically Kesh is trying to justify not quite managing 1 to 1 on defense against less organized attackers. In his words.


Take your loss, you were outplayed. Every time you came out of the village to break the attackers' construction you lost heavily and that screwed you later on. Your gear overall might not have been as good, but it's not even close to the disparity you're trying to depict. And whatever happened to the defender advantage?


The sWalker sees that his old pals of Chaos have trained this new group well in the use of long stabby pikes...the sWalker has many holes that need repair *damn my new shirt, the sWalker thinks*.

While we may have been in on the escalation trend, it's by virtue of their utility that the long stabby poles have gotten so popular. We never asked for other people to rely on them so much, but they were always part of a well-balanced breakfast army.

I think he was just noting they had 20 more body armor than us for most of the fight where they barely pulled better than a 1 to 1 until near the very end getting on top of flags.  Also, that many of the frisians have joined the chaos crowd in using very long weapons that only require use of the s key and left click and currently 1-2 shot people despite giving the range of a bow because devs never took the time to balance their damage output with their utility.  Notably 1/5th to 1/4th your team was using a deadly pike, so yeah it was a little noticeable that more people are switching to FOTM.

Attackers didn't really have that many pikemen, we had far more hoplites than we did pikes. Point of fact: they only had around 100 total pikes in that army, and zero long spears or anything else longer than 150 that wasn't a heavy lance. We ran out of pikes midway through and everything we found after that point was, for the most part, scavenged from the defenders (judging by loom levels). Defenders which, by the way, had a decent number of pikemen themselves! I noticed a good half-dozen at least on your team who were typically grouped up, and our side never had more than a few at the front (a couple were behind defending forward spawns the entire time). We were pretty evenly matched on that front, all told, though our pikes were mostly masterworked and I don't think yours were.

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Oh, and don't forget to block down.
Title: Re: The battle of Nova Fenada...
Post by: Bronto on August 19, 2013, 12:46:16 am
From henceforth this battle shall be recorded as the battle of unidirectional blocking because having to block in the same direction constantly is too hard. Buff down blocks.
Title: Re: The battle of Nova Fenada...
Post by: Keshian on August 19, 2013, 01:23:35 am

One infantry class in higher than average numbers doesn't make or break a battle on its own. Insinuating pikes are easy mode is unbecoming of someone who's spent so much time as a high level character in strat (and I'd know!). The reality of it is that they're great weapons for teamwork, something that I don't think Kesh understands very well, quite frankly. "THE CAV ARE KILLING ME I NEED SOME PIKERS TO COME PROTECT ARCHERS" says the Kesh, while moving away from everyone else. The Kesh who later gave up archery to go solo rampaging as a strength-heavy 2hander build, one of the most forgiving playstyles in the game. Doing the S-key jump-back-turn-around-stab pike strategy doesn't help your team in strat, that's not the proper use of a pike in a battle scenario; one has to position properly and aim and angle well to succeed. sidenote: There's probably a reason I've never seen Kesh using a pike or long spear, and I don't think it has to do with how "OP" he feels they might be.

Oh, and don't forget to block down.

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Title: Re: The battle of Nova Fenada...
Post by: Sandersson Jankins on August 19, 2013, 01:31:23 am
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I would say that you have said a permutation of the phrase "WE NEED A PIKEMAN OR TWO TO GUARD THE ARCHERS ALL I DIE TO IS THEIR EASYMODE CAV" while moving to the outskirts of your team in at least 1/4 and at most 3/4 of the battles I have ever fought with you in, the total of which is quite high.
Title: Re: The battle of Nova Fenada...
Post by: Canary on August 19, 2013, 02:47:53 am
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and we dont have our admins rationalize people piking through solid objects on our side just because you are a piker.

Oh look, a can of worms. I'll try and stymie this before it spreads:

Attacking through solid objects is bad. It's an exploitation of the game engine, but so are so many other things that are allowed! Here we have to apply common sense, even if it may seem somewhat nonsensical in a certain light.

You can physically stab straight through a skinny wall (or breakable door, etc) ignoring its hitbox which should stop your attack. Having a character hugging the wall while swinging or stabbing directly through it is against the rules.

Caveat: Beginning your swing or stab somewhere that avoids the actual scene object in the beginning isn't against the rules, even if part of your weapon's model clips through the scene object by the end of the attack.

The nature of moving the hitbox of a weapon means that it's still possible to hit someone on the other side of a low enough wall using this method, or around corners to some degree. It's not very realistic, but it's not as bad as stabbing straight through the wall. Realistically speaking, one would also be able to lift a weapon above his shoulders and feasibly attack someone on the other side of a low wall, but our game engine doesn't have such a feature. What it does have is movable hitboxes and attacks being usable while jumping.

If we were to make a call saying stabbing over a wall is against the rules then we'd have to call out every single instance of a player's weapon model clipping into a scene object while not glancing off the object to avoid being inconsistent. It would be debilitating to every fight involving any kind of scenery to have to make calls for things being against the rules in such a way. Where does it end?

The majority of problems of this nature have already been fixed by WSE (ground collision, more interaction with player capsules for overheads, scene objects colliding with weapon hitboxes sooner), the only ones still remaining are the pike hitbox being so long that it starts beyond where it should glance at point blank against an obstacle and the thing that allow swings to bypass doors and such if there's a player hitbox on the other side.


In short: The reason stabbing straight through scene objects is against the rules is because it completely disregards what should be possible in the game engine on top of reasonable reality.

The reason stabbing over walls and around them even when your weapon might clip through them is allowed is because it isn't nearly as unreasonable as an attack that disregards the scene object entirely - it has limitations and you have to work to land an attack that way. It's also an incredibly ubiquitous issue, meaning it'd be almost impossible to police it effectively and fairly. Plus it's something both sides of a wall can take advantage of, unlike those walls that bug out when hit by catapults and become tangible in only one direction.

If anyone is confused I can draw a diagram to explain it further.
Title: Re: The battle of Nova Fenada...
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on August 19, 2013, 10:15:22 pm
I'm confused, can you draw a diagram?   :twisted:
Title: Re: The battle of Nova Fenada...
Post by: BaleOhay on August 20, 2013, 12:18:53 am
I think it would prob be easier to enforce the no pikeing thru walls than it was to read that massive wall of crap.
Title: Re: The battle of Nova Fenada...
Post by: Malaclypse on August 20, 2013, 12:29:54 am
I think it would prob be easier to enforce the no pikeing thru walls than it was to read that massive wall of crap.

Segmented paragraphs 2 much 2 handle. Better not borrow you my copy of Finnegan's Wake!
Title: Re: The battle of Nova Fenada...
Post by: Canary on August 20, 2013, 12:42:17 am
I'm confused, can you draw a diagram?   :twisted:

I think it would prob be easier to enforce the no pikeing thru walls than it was to read that massive wall of crap.

Alright, fine, diagram it is.

(click to show/hide)

If you would like to know why this is the case, you'll have to actually read the other post.
Title: Re: The battle of Nova Fenada...
Post by: Keshian on August 20, 2013, 12:50:57 am
Alright, fine, diagram it is.

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If you would like to know why this is the case, you'll have to actually read the other post.

Lol, the first picture is impossible - what the second picture doesn't show is he brings the long spear down instantly so that it stabs straight throuh the wall in actual practice - but as a piker I see you rationalizing that as allowed, when in fact its classified under the disallowed.  You can stab someone over it but not through by abusing the animation.  Stabbing over is not poking up for  a second then stabbing someone with no exposed parts straight through the wall.  Its actually stabbing someone with either head or some other part slightly exposed above the wall at the angle your picture shows.  You can check with EU on this and find this is the actual rule.  In the battle that took place the wall was 2 feet higher than people's heads so the only way to connect was actually stabbing through the solid object - which was repeatedly done and condoned by you even after we reported it.

I understand your desire to stab straight through solid objects by momentarily pointing upwards with the long spear, but you are not allowed to hit someone where you have to stab through the solid object as the only way to get a hit - they actually have to have exposed parts otherwise you are just abusing the animation glitch problem that makes long spears so easy and abusable where you can stab always at any range or angle as long as you move it from a different angle from your initial stab.
Title: Re: The battle of Nova Fenada...
Post by: Malaclypse on August 20, 2013, 01:04:27 am
Lol, the first picture is impossible

If you're pressed right up against a "thin" wall (solid gates, low stone walls, gatehouse walls next to the doorway) it's totally possible. I can attest that I've had this done to me (fucking Tanken in NA2 and those gates that arrows cannot go through, stabbing folk, jerk), though note that it is only the Pike that can do this reliably- Long Spear is too short. I can also attest that I've done this (in DTV against rabid, dumb bots- never against other players- guilty as charged) as a Pike-fella. Anyhow, attacking over a wall and then stabbing down so that part of the pike shaft goes through it isn't a justification Canary came up with AFAIK; it came from the Logos, probably (or EU admins/devs).
Title: Re: The battle of Nova Fenada...
Post by: Keshian on August 20, 2013, 01:06:32 am
. Anyhow, attacking over a wall and then stabbing down so that part of the pike shaft goes through it isn't a justification Canary came up with AFAIK; it came from the Logos, probably (or EU admins/devs).

Its what was actually happening in the battle because the wall was too high - roughly two feet higher than the characters.
Title: Re: The battle of Nova Fenada...
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on August 20, 2013, 01:06:44 am
Thanks for the pic Canary, I knew what you were talking about all along, just always enjoy pitchers.  And thanks for explaining to us veterans, what we already all probably knew (even tho Kesh and Bale are acting dumb now).  I like it when you talk to us like we're in the slow class, it makes me feel extra special :D

Kesh the pike animation is going around the wall in your example (I didn't see, but that's what it sounds like you're describing).  You surely will recognize pikes are taller than people.
Title: Re: The battle of Nova Fenada...
Post by: BaleOhay on August 20, 2013, 02:07:19 am
Kesh is correct. That wall was well over everyone's head. So they were not piking over it at all. They were aiming up and swinging down certainly.. however the end result was pikes ghosting thru the wall. A simple no piking thru objects could have ended it... We had 2 guys give it a go and even with the admins saying it was "ok" we told them to stop and they did. As it should have been for both sides.

I understood full well what canary was saying. he always just picks the longest winded way to say anything.
Title: Re: The battle of Nova Fenada...
Post by: Kalam on August 20, 2013, 03:38:56 am
There's only one way to settle this: Championship Warfare.

Canary vs. Kesh, one single duel, no rules but win, winner takes all.

You think I'm joking, but I'm serious.
Title: Re: The battle of Nova Fenada...
Post by: Canary on August 20, 2013, 03:43:01 am
If you're standing immediately next to a wall and the wall is taller than both characters (this is excluding standing on something that gives you a view over it, or if you can jump high enough) stabbing beyond the hitbox of the wall to hit the person on the other side it not reasonable, either. That's the best way to put it, I reckon, and something I didn't point out very well in my previous post or during the battle: If you can't see the player on the other side from your position, you shouldn't be hitting them over an obstacle. Time for another diagram!

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The "start of stab not being into the wall" thing is the current rule of thumb, but not the end-all to enforcement for this rule. Saying merely "don't stab through walls" is a bit vague, and I tried to clarify that point, but didn't do a very good job during the fight, I'm afraid. From what I saw in the battle, nobody was actually stabbing people directly on the other side of the wall, though, whether straight through or dragging it over from their position on the ground - at least not when I started looking once the warnings were issued. If people were jumping or stabbing over the wall hitting people on ladders (which were right on the other side of the wall leading up to the roof at times during the fight), in both cases they were players they could see easily, then they were fine. That's what I saw happening from both sides' pikemen. If this continues to be a problem, I'll have to spectate for longer.

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I understood full well what canary was saying. he always just picks the longest winded way to say anything.

My bad.
Title: Re: The battle of Nova Fenada...
Post by: Duster on August 20, 2013, 03:43:46 am
There's only one way to settle this: Championship Warfare.

Canary vs. Kesh, one single duel, no rules but win, winner takes all.

You think I'm joking, but I'm serious.

I'd love to see this, but I don't think either could stand to lose it.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: The battle of Nova Fenada...
Post by: Canary on August 20, 2013, 03:54:27 am
There's only one way to settle this: Championship Warfare.

Canary vs. Kesh, one single duel, no rules but win, winner takes all.

You think I'm joking, but I'm serious.

What all does the winner take?

I suppose I ought to be dueling with a long spear for this? Hyuk hyuk.
Title: Re: The battle of Nova Fenada...
Post by: Novamere on August 20, 2013, 04:00:34 am
+1 Love the RP haha
Title: Re: The battle of Nova Fenada...
Post by: BaleOhay on August 20, 2013, 01:10:56 pm
your last picture in that spoiler was what was happening and what we were complaining about... your people were without a doubt stabbing people completely hidden by the wall... no jumping required. I was there a couple of times.. my head no where near the top and a pike was hitting me several times and I was not the only one. Even standing back from the wall all you could see of the attacker was the pike so at no point was it coming over and just clipping the wall a little... at no point was it not thru the wall...

If you would like we can go to that map on a test server and you can stand behind it and I will use "magic" to hit you
Title: Re: The battle of Nova Fenada...
Post by: Keshian on August 20, 2013, 01:34:07 pm
your last picture in that spoiler was what was happening and what we were complaining about... your people were without a doubt stabbing people completely hidden by the wall... no jumping required. I was there a couple of times.. my head no where near the top and a pike was hitting me several times and I was not the only one. Even standing back from the wall all you could see of the attacker was the pike so at no point was it coming over and just clipping the wall a little... at no point was it not thru the wall...

If you would like we can go to that map on a test server and you can stand behind it and I will use "magic" to hit you

yeah we had to fall back way from hiding behind the wall to group up before pushing back because of "magic piking" with no jumping, which exposed us more to cav and ranged.  When we complained you gave your generalized okay saying as long as they stabbed up at first and people just kept doing it.  A couple guys with pikes would laughingly stay there and just hold down block as magic pikes kept hitting their down block straight through the wall.  We had his same issue in jelbegi village and other battles fighting a similar merc pool.  If we ever see even one of our guys cheat like that we tell them to stop it, but it almost seems like its encouraged by the other side because its effective.
Title: Re: The battle of Nova Fenada...
Post by: SquishMitten on August 20, 2013, 01:39:27 pm
I fail to see how this is not an abuse of the dodgy game mechanics
Title: Re: The battle of Nova Fenada...
Post by: Canary on August 20, 2013, 06:15:21 pm
your last picture in that spoiler was what was happening and what we were complaining about... your people were without a doubt stabbing people completely hidden by the wall... no jumping required. I was there a couple of times.. my head no where near the top and a pike was hitting me several times and I was not the only one. Even standing back from the wall all you could see of the attacker was the pike so at no point was it coming over and just clipping the wall a little... at no point was it not thru the wall...

If you would like we can go to that map on a test server and you can stand behind it and I will use "magic" to hit you

I understand what was happening now, and what you guys have been talking about. I didn't at first because I didn't notice it happening during the battle.

yeah we had to fall back way from hiding behind the wall to group up before pushing back because of "magic piking" with no jumping, which exposed us more to cav and ranged.  When we complained you gave your generalized okay saying as long as they stabbed up at first and people just kept doing it.  A couple guys with pikes would laughingly stay there and just hold down block as magic pikes kept hitting their down block straight through the wall.  We had his same issue in jelbegi village and other battles fighting a similar merc pool.  If we ever see even one of our guys cheat like that we tell them to stop it, but it almost seems like its encouraged by the other side because its effective.

[17:50:27] msg,[ADMIN][Canary_of_Chaos] PSA: stabbing straight through scene objects is not okay

SOUNDS LIKE I WAS ENDORSING IT, YEP.

But no, I tried to explain what I meant further which was difficult to do while keeping up with my team. I'm glad we cleared all this up overall in this thread, though.

I also tried to explain to the other admins present in admin-chat what constitutes the ruling, but didn't do a very good job there, either (it took me, what, three posts to find the best words/pictures for it in this thread?). Still, they could have taken initiative against players doing it and I wouldn't have stopped them.


If we ever see even one of our guys cheat like that we tell them to stop it, but it almost seems like its encouraged by the other side because its effective.

People were told in the attackers' teamspeak to stop. Aldogalus in particular called out one of his clanmates for it on at least one occasion.


In summary: people may have been abusing hitboxes to attack through a wall in the Nova Fenada battle. They were warned not to stab through the wall. I personally didn't see anyone attacking straight through the wall once I started watching. In the end no one got punished, if they were doing it.
Title: Re: The battle of Nova Fenada...
Post by: Kalam on August 20, 2013, 09:47:22 pm
What all does the winner take?

I suppose I ought to be dueling with a long spear for this? Hyuk hyuk.

ALL THE THINGS. If this was 2010, I'd do my best to make it happen knowing that it had a chance. Unfortunately, there's way too many people that we'd need to convince. Let alone convince Kesh and Canary.
Title: Re: The battle of Nova Fenada...
Post by: Relit on August 20, 2013, 10:25:50 pm
Wish I had been at this battle to witness all the pikes/LS' stuff. It always makes me chuckle when people complain about them being broken or unfair because of their wonky animations, while many of the other weapons in the game have so many other issues.

The general rule to objects and pikes/LS': If you can get over/around the object its OKAY. Through the object is NOT. The amount of times that I personally have been 'sternly talked to' about pike abusing is many and most people do not realize that due to ping and the games mechanics, sometimes when a piker goes up and over or around a object so fast it actually looks like they are stabbing through it, while on the pikers screen he is doing nothing wrong.

This is how it works and has always worked and I do not think it will ever really be fixed in this iteration of the game. (Heres hoping to better netcode and animations in future games)