cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Elindor on July 30, 2013, 11:22:56 pm

Title: NA2's Population - Would Map Rotation Alterations Help?
Post by: Elindor on July 30, 2013, 11:22:56 pm
Some of you may be aware that there have been some changes in the Scene Editing portion of the forums (yes, it does exist) :)
The devs have put two Scene Managers in charge (Fips and Teeth) that will help facilitate the map submission process and the rotations.
Scene Reviewers will assist in this process as well.  It will take time, but expect to see some good changes in regards to maps.
That being said, I had suggested something in the Scene Editing area that Fips asked me to post here for feedback.

The question is this...

NA2 LOW POP - WOULD MAP ROTATION ALTERATIONS HELP?

NA2 often struggles from low pop, whereas EU2 does not.  Those of us in the mapping community are trying to get to the bottom of this and wondering if the map rotation could be part of the problem.

Now before everyone gets their finger ready to reply with "Cus siege is 4 noobs", we are looking for feedback from people who are interested in playing siege more but do not for various reasons.  We want to know what those reasons are.  If you are a battle buff and just don't like siege, that is fine, but not worth posting. 

We want to know if there are changes that can be made to make NA2 more attractive to players.

-------------------------------

Much of the complaints I hear about siege are the maps, and everyone loves to hate on maps, but the question is this :

Are there certain maps on NA2 that you feel should be removed from the NA2 rotation?
This can be because either they do not work well with the relatively small NA2 population or maybe you feel they are just not well balanced maps in general.

Based on comments I have seen over time from players about maps that "are too big" and "kill the server" I have comprised a list of my PERSONAL suggestions, but these could very well be wrong.  If so, suggest which ones you think should be removed if you think them being removed would make you and others play NA2 more often.

-------------------------------

- Hrafninn Castle
(click to show/hide)

- Ibdeles Castle
(click to show/hide)

- Burg Rabenstein
(click to show/hide)

- Ridoma Castle
(click to show/hide)

-------------------------------

Again, these are my personal suggestions based off feedback I've seen on the servers over time.  Like these and want to keep them?  Let us know!
  Think other maps hurt the server population?  Let us know!

*** THIS MIGHT HELP ***
http://forum.meleegaming.com/scene-editing/current-map-cycle-with-screenshots-(wip)/

Let us know if you think that a revised map rotation which excludes some maps not well balanced for the low pop that NA2 often has would help encourage you to play NA2 more often.

Avoid trolling.  Be constructive.  :mrgreen:


Title: Re: NA2's Population - Would Map Rotation Alterations Help?
Post by: Jarold on July 30, 2013, 11:49:07 pm
Although I don't disagree with you on many things Elindor, this is one. It's not the maps that kills siege, it's the players. Only a few dedicated players in NA love them some siege. The rest have to play Battle or else their k/d e-peen will die off.

Also I would hate to see these maps go, I love them. I for one don't care what map i'm on bad, good, or in between I just love variation and siege.
Title: Re: NA2's Population - Would Map Rotation Alterations Help?
Post by: Tojo on July 31, 2013, 12:00:21 am
I actually enoy the 1st two maps on your list, the Rabenstein and Ridoma I could do without.

 its only a couple of maps that are really one sided, especially the one where defense has to suicide jump after spawning.

I think just more maps in the rotation would be much better, I really like the native castles, but hardly get to play them.

IMO devs should make NA2 double XP then it will always be populated.
Title: Re: NA2's Population - Would Map Rotation Alterations Help?
Post by: Kelugarn on July 31, 2013, 01:22:39 am
I actually enjoy all the maps on that list except Burg Rabenstein because I've never played it. I'm not sure why siege can be so dead for such long periods but I too feel like it's the players who kill the server, although not because they leave to go to battle. Usually I go on siege at rather odd hours and I've witnessed plenty of times where a clan is using the low pop to steamroll and maintain an x5 through multiple maps, which drives people away and keeps the pop low until something finally breaks the cycle. I guess it's because the "player threshold" for siege is higher than that of battle, meaning that it takes a higher server pop to have good balance and game play in siege than in battle.

Just my thoughts, I could be totally wrong.
Title: Re: NA2's Population - Would Map Rotation Alterations Help?
Post by: Little Lord Lollipop on July 31, 2013, 01:51:45 am
Burg Rabenstein needs to go, it is poorly designed and glitchy. I enjoy playing on the other 3.

Another map that should be removed is the one where defenders spawn on a balcony high above the flag and have no way down but to suicide jump (unsure of name).

To increase population perhaps the base experience/gold multiplier could be set to x2 (max multiplier x6). Or it could be implemented where strat ticks are earned at any multiplier level.
Title: Re: NA2's Population - Would Map Rotation Alterations Help?
Post by: Nightingale on July 31, 2013, 02:16:09 am
I don't play siege because no one plays it.
Title: Re: NA2's Population - Would Map Rotation Alterations Help?
Post by: Vingnir the Wanderer on July 31, 2013, 02:17:23 am
I find Ridoma Castle, boring to play.

We definitely need MORE maps, in the rotation...  People get bored.  The only thing thats going to get people to play siege, is something new about it.  Like more maps, at the very least.
Title: Re: NA2's Population - Would Map Rotation Alterations Help?
Post by: Elindor on July 31, 2013, 02:55:36 am
Good feedback all.

Remember, the maps I listed are purely to get the conversation going - we are open to feedback about keeping those maps and removing others.  If you have other maps you think hurt siege then go to the link I provided and look through the rotation with screenshots that Fips put together (or offer solutions on what could be done to FIX a particular map if it seems unbalanced or bugged in some way)

:arrow: The core of the question is - is there something the Scene Managers and team can do to bring more life to NA2.
Unfortunately issues of banner balance (which I agree with) cannot be addressed by the Scene teams.

Focus on answers that address that question.  Keep up the constructive information.
Title: Re: NA2's Population - Would Map Rotation Alterations Help?
Post by: Froto_the_Loc on July 31, 2013, 03:14:28 am
Fips had said something to me about my map the other day, but I only know of one thing wrong with it for sure.
And the "x2 multiplier" suggestion would just cause even more battlemy old friends to encroach upon the server, which is the reason I don't play there much.

I think the maps need a more unique approach. Beyond the vision of a traditional castle, but still playable.
But, maybe it's beyond the maps? I know the GK siege server has things like boiling oil, catapults, ballistae. These things add something different to the stale "walk into the castle on a warpath to the flag." One can dream, I suppose.
Title: Re: NA2's Population - Would Map Rotation Alterations Help?
Post by: Apollo on July 31, 2013, 03:14:52 am
Stop with the "open field" siege maps. You aren't sieging anything if there is just a flag randomly placed in a field.
Title: Re: NA2's Population - Would Map Rotation Alterations Help?
Post by: Sparvico on July 31, 2013, 03:35:58 am
I think that the addition of new maps would be more beneficial. Not everyone can agree on what maps are unbalanced, or even what the term balanced means, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone that isn't at least a little bored of all the maps in siege.

Additionally, I think that removing broken maps would only re-attract people that knew the map was broken (i.e. existing siege players) whereas adding new maps could attract people that rarely play siege and want to check the new ones out.

Removing truly broken maps is of course necessary, but that will only work towards sustaining the resident population. If you want to attract more people to siege you've got to give them something that they haven't already seen.

(as a side note: new features like boiling oil, balistias, and other things that can't exist in a battle server could also act as attractants).
Title: Re: NA2's Population - Would Map Rotation Alterations Help?
Post by: Fips on July 31, 2013, 03:56:02 am
Quote from: Vingnir the Wanderer on July 31, 2013, 02:17:23 am
I find Ridoma Castle, boring to play.

We definitely need MORE maps, in the rotation...  People get bored.  The only thing thats going to get people to play siege, is something new about it.  Like more maps, at the very least.

There are 35 maps in the rotation, 5 of them completely new ones with several old ones getting back in after a rework. Getting new siege maps to work is a long process full of enraged players, so getting new ones in there is not as easy as with battle. If you happen to know of any OSP map packs out there, go ahead and tell me, teeth or elindor. We'll be glad to look through them. We will do this ourselves at some point, but right now there are other problems with the rotation to deal with, so any help would be appreciated.

And we already have working ballistaes. Thing is, they only work in conquest, which needs to be fixed first. I'll ask Ozin if they might actually work in the normal siege, but i doubt it.


@Apollo: Not quite sure what you are talking about. Those maps were only on siege between some patches (where they wrongly got in) and the hotfixes (where they got removed again). And right now they are definitely not in.
Title: Re: NA2's Population - Would Map Rotation Alterations Help?
Post by: Legs on July 31, 2013, 04:00:23 am
It's more of an issue of population threshold. Siege just isn't appealing unless there's at least 20-30 players on the server. If there are fewer, nobody joins and the people who are already there gradually leave.

Maybe if there was an alternate rotation of smaller maps when the server population falls below a certain number. I'm not sure if that would be possible though, or if it would make a difference.

Really, it could just be that the cRPG player base isn't big enough that running several servers at once is feasible. During primetime there may be enough people online to get siege going but once we start getting into the off-hours it always empties out again.

P.S. I agree with Sparvico that enabling/adding siege gear on that server would probably attract people.
Title: Re: NA2's Population - Would Map Rotation Alterations Help?
Post by: Jona on July 31, 2013, 04:06:21 am
In my opinion, burg rabenstein absolutely has to go. I feel like Hrafnin has a very long walk (all uphill) for attackers, leading to much downtime and potential defense-bias. It is one of the very few maps that would arguably be biased to the defense, at least in the usual low population. Ibdeles and Ridoma happen to be two of my favorite maps, since all maps that aren't broken tend to be among my favorites. That, and I see nothing wrong with either of them at all.

That one map where the defenders must (90% of the time, anyways) jump to their deaths from spawn definitely needs to go (and i say 90% since you can survive with only taking 1/2 - 2/3 damage if you are a pro). On that same map the attackers also spawn underwater, making their whole screen blue until they finally climb the really long staircase right in front of the flag. So if the 1 glitched spawn wasn't bad enough, to completely kill the map, that is. I have seen this one map empty a server when polls weren't enabled.

Other than adding new maps, I definitely think that fixing the bugs in the old ones would be a great way to get more players into siege. Plenty of maps have gates that can't be opened by defenders all the time, or they can only be opened from one side (still not sure if this is intentional or not... nothing like locking your whole defending team out of the flag building while it's getting capped). Not to mention that one map where defenders can't open the gate, but the attackers can... and open it from the outside too. That map wouldn't be too bad if it was bugged. While these fixes wouldn't necessarily draw in new players, it wouldn't give a reason for current siege players to up and leave prematurely.

As I mentioned earlier, many of the maps tend to be attacker-biased (even with no more overtime), especially with low population. With very high population (very very rare nowadays) the defending team has enough players to camp ladders almost endlessly, while in low-pop you are lucky if you can die and come back and not have to rush to the flag, then fight on the flag for the rest of the match. An interesting suggestion, and one that can't be fulfilled by the scene managers, unfortunately) would be to have variable spawn timers for defenders, with the variable being server population. This means when the server is at a relative high, or really just medium when compared to battle's standards, the respawn timer would be at 30 or so, as it always is now. But with lower pop, that time would decrease. If the server is a 4v4 (lowest possible to get multis) you can have 1 hero cut down the entire defending team, get to the flag, and cap it before they respawn. So sure, it might not draw more people to siege, but once again it will greatly improve it in its current state. And if it is a better game mode... perhaps more people will stick around.

Quote from: Fips on July 31, 2013, 03:56:02 am
And we already have working ballistaes. Thing is, they only work in conquest, which needs to be fixed first. I'll ask Ozin if they might actually work in the normal siege, but i doubt it.


@Apollo: Not quite sure what you are talking about. Those maps were only on siege between some patches (where they wrongly got in) and the hotfixes (where they got removed again). And right now they are definitely not in.

I personally hated ballistas in the conquest game mode... sure it was great that it helped the defenders (not that they ever needed help in that particular game mode) but the attackers could easily take them over and use them against the defenders. And with low population, you can't guard both the flag, the ladders, the gate, and the ballista. Heck, nowadays you really can only guard the ladders, or the flag, and hope they never get to the gatehouse. And if you split so that you've got half at flag, half a ladders, the ladder guys will get overwhelmed and die.. then the entire hoard of attackers will overwhelm the flag campers before the ladder guys even respawn, and boom.. attackers win yet again. While new gimmicky things such as this might draw a few curious people, I feel that it will innevitably hurt the game mode in the long run, once the curiosity dies down.

Also, believe it or not, open field maps pop up a lot... not sure if maybe one map is glitched or something, so you don't think its an open field but it is.. but they have been showing up for all time, and have yet to go anywhere. I played on one just yesterday or the day before. To be honest though (I know I am in the minority here) they change up the gameplay so much that I enjoy the open field maps. And they go by quickly (unless you've got a stacked defense team, which just means the entire round is a frantic flag-area-bloodbath.. which is epic fun) so they don't kill the servers too much. I don't even get mad losing a multi if I am on defense since it is such a refreshing time. Personally I like fighting in open fields, but I dislike battle due to the long wait time if you have got delayers and whatnot. And also open fields are much more fun when no one is expecting it so you have got at most 2 cav.
Title: Re: NA2's Population - Would Map Rotation Alterations Help?
Post by: Fips on July 31, 2013, 04:20:04 am
I'm not quite sure why you guys didn't notice it yet, but there has been a ton of updates with the latest patch. So just generally expect to have map updates with every patch from now on. The 4 months without any updates whatsoever really seemed to have killed na siege =o

Rabenstein got a huge update, hrafnin is probably one of the maps that need to go for NA (Because it works perfectly on EU), the map with jumping is out, the one with bugged gates is fixed (gates can only be opened from one side, btw), just to mention the ones that were posted here.

Quote
I personally hated ballistas in the conquest game mode... sure it was great that it helped the defenders (not that they ever needed help in that particular game mode) but the attackers could easily take them over and use them against the defenders. And with low population, you can't guard both the flag, the ladders, the gate, and the ballista. Heck, nowadays you really can only guard the ladders, or the flag, and hope they never get to the gatehouse. And if you split so that you've got half at flag, half a ladders, the ladder guys will get overwhelmed and die.. then the entire hoard of attackers will overwhelm the flag campers before the ladder guys even respawn, and boom.. attackers win yet again. While new gimmicky things such as this might draw a few curious people, I feel that it will innevitably hurt the game mode in the long run, once the curiosity dies down.

Also, believe it or not, open field maps pop up a lot... not sure if maybe one map is glitched or something, so you don't think its an open field but it is.. but they have been showing up for all time, and have yet to go anywhere. I played on one just yesterday or the day before. To be honest though (I know I am in the minority here) they change up the gameplay so much that I enjoy the open field maps. And they go by quickly (unless you've got a stacked defense team, which just means the entire round is a frantic flag-area-bloodbath.. which is epic fun) so they don't kill the servers too much. I don't even get mad losing a multi if I am on defense since it is such a refreshing time. Personally I like fighting in open fields, but I dislike battle due to the long wait time if you have got delayers and whatnot. And also open fields are much more fun when no one is expecting it so you have got at most 2 cav.

Those ballistas were just placed very poorly and were probably only there for testing purposes anyway. Smart placement can make those ballistas only usable for defence or attacker. And if you want to, you can let both access them, simply by not having any angle restrictions on them. So no, ballistas are a great thing and if there is a way to implement them, they will definitely be a thing in siege.

And nope, you definitely not played on a field battle just yesterday, or anytime since the latest patch. NA has the exact same rotation as EU and there are no random plains in it whatsoever. Maybe there is some very weird thing going on in NA that we scene managers cannot control, but NA can't be that fucked up =P
Title: Re: NA2's Population - Would Map Rotation Alterations Help?
Post by: Winterly on July 31, 2013, 04:31:07 am
I'm always pro-new maps because they're a breathe of fresh air regardless of whether it is balanced or not. Balance is something that can be tweaked and is oftentimes subject to the population of the server. However the general opinion in NA2's case, is that multiple factors inhibit a lasting population and the foremost of those problems are banner balance and map balance. The only real solution to map balance I can think of is to have an admin present at all times (yeah...right.) and change the maps in accordance with the population of the server. A document containing which maps would be suitable for small (5-20), medium (21-45), and large (46+) populations would probably be needed for reference.
Title: Re: NA2's Population - Would Map Rotation Alterations Help?
Post by: Elindor on July 31, 2013, 04:34:32 am
Many of you have mentioned the issue of map balance with small population, which leaves the people there wanting to leave and eventually it dies instead of grows - it has a critical mass issue.

----
I have suggested many times that siege get a DYNAMIC RESPAWN TIMER FOR DEFENSE.
This would be that under a certain threshold, the respawn timer would reduce itself from 30 seconds to 20 seconds or such.
This threshold could be under ~15 defenders, or something like that.
----

Fips, If this is possible through Jacko (and probably cmp for that) it would really help "auto balance" the maps.  Not sure how possible it is.

Again guys, thanks for the input, and be patient as the Scene Managers are new and it will take time to get things going - but changes will be made.
Title: Re: NA2's Population - Would Map Rotation Alterations Help?
Post by: Jona on July 31, 2013, 04:37:08 am
Quote from: Fips on July 31, 2013, 04:20:04 am
but NA can't be that fucked up =P

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it can be ;D

And I still don't know how I feel about ballistas...

Also, as weird as it may seem, I have only played siege on working maps since the patch. And I mean maps that worked prior to the patch. I have yet to encounter one of the glitchy ones that might be fixed now. I read in the patch log that maps got updated... but (even though i play too much) I have yet to see a newly-fixed one. Only solution is to play more.

Quote from: Winterly on July 31, 2013, 04:31:07 am
The only real solution to map balance I can think of is to have an admin present at all times (yeah...right.)

A great reason why you should vote Jona for admin 2013.  :P
Title: Re: NA2's Population - Would Map Rotation Alterations Help?
Post by: Fips on July 31, 2013, 12:43:13 pm
Quote from: Jona on July 31, 2013, 04:37:08 am
Yeah, I'm pretty sure it can be ;D

And I still don't know how I feel about ballistas...

Also, as weird as it may seem, I have only played siege on working maps since the patch. And I mean maps that worked prior to the patch. I have yet to encounter one of the glitchy ones that might be fixed now. I read in the patch log that maps got updated... but (even though i play too much) I have yet to see a newly-fixed one. Only solution is to play more.

A great reason why you should vote Jona for admin 2013.  :P

Well, the rotation is still random (which will be fixed at some point) so there is a good chance you won't play new maps, because the majority are still old ones.

@Elindor: Yeah, i'll talk to jacko, maybe there is a way to implement this in without too much effort.
Title: Re: NA2's Population - Would Map Rotation Alterations Help?
Post by: Elindor on July 31, 2013, 03:49:33 pm
Wonder if there is a way to prioritize new maps in the random equation....probably not.  But yeah I feel like we add 5 or so new maps and I play most nights and almost never see any of them.
Title: Re: NA2's Population - Would Map Rotation Alterations Help?
Post by: Fips on July 31, 2013, 03:55:48 pm
Quote from: Elindor on July 31, 2013, 03:49:33 pm
Wonder if there is a way to prioritize new maps in the random equation....probably not.  But yeah I feel like we add 5 or so new maps and I play most nights and almost never see any of them.

Well yeah, just make 2 entries instead of one, that should be no problem. And once there is a manual cycle we are the masters of it anyway, so definitely possible =D
Title: Re: NA2's Population - Would Map Rotation Alterations Help?
Post by: Wolfsblood on July 31, 2013, 03:59:38 pm
Elindor, as much as I hate seeing u on the field of battle, I am really happy that you are putting forward so much effort to breathe some life back into siege.

Props to u
Title: Re: NA2's Population - Would Map Rotation Alterations Help?
Post by: Elindor on July 31, 2013, 04:03:37 pm
Quote from: Wolfsblood on July 31, 2013, 03:59:38 pm
Elindor, as much as I hate seeing u on the field of battle, I am really happy that you are putting forward so much effort to breathe some life back into siege.

Props to u

Why do you hate seeing me on the field of battle?  :cry:
Title: Re: NA2's Population - Would Map Rotation Alterations Help?
Post by: Wolfsblood on July 31, 2013, 04:06:09 pm
Cuase ur a strength crutch nab  :twisted:



Jk, ur just a really tough opponent  :P
Title: Re: NA2's Population - Would Map Rotation Alterations Help?
Post by: Elindor on July 31, 2013, 04:13:26 pm
Quote from: Wolfsblood on July 31, 2013, 04:06:09 pm
Cuase ur a strength crutch nab  :twisted:
Jk, ur just a really tough opponent  :P

Oh! hah.

Im borderline between balanced build and strength build - used to be pure balanced but couldn't kill all the crutches :)

Anyhow thanks man :)
Title: Re: NA2's Population - Would Map Rotation Alterations Help?
Post by: Neggaz on July 31, 2013, 09:25:25 pm
the first map should get removed it use to kill siege alot and its too long to get to the flag. others are mostly fine imo
Title: Re: NA2's Population - Would Map Rotation Alterations Help?
Post by: Cradoc on August 01, 2013, 12:38:32 am
One problem I have with siege is that you don't get a multiplier as fast as battle. You have to play out every single round for the majority of a play session. I would make 10k with battle whereas with siege I would make 4k for the same amount of time.
Title: Re: NA2's Population - Would Map Rotation Alterations Help?
Post by: San on August 01, 2013, 01:20:10 am
I'm not sure why I stopped playing seige. I felt the monotony after a while that I don't feel with battle mode. The reason I continue not to play it is because  it's not as fun for me, and you get switched every round. Some core mechanics probably needs to be changed for me to go back to it. There's no more situations where I feel like "I guess I'll play siege," I just completely exit out of the game. New, interesting maps and good spawns are definitely a start. Being able to utilize multiple facets of the map makes it interesting.
Title: Re: NA2's Population - Would Map Rotation Alterations Help?
Post by: Jona on August 01, 2013, 01:59:20 am
Quote from: san. on August 01, 2013, 01:20:10 am
I'm not sure why I stopped playing seige. I felt the monotony after a while that I don't feel with battle mode. The reason I continue not to play it is because  it's not as fun for me, and you get switched every round. Some core mechanics probably needs to be changed for me to go back to it. There's no more situations where I feel like "I guess I'll play siege," I just completely exit out of the game. New, interesting maps and good spawns are definitely a start. Being able to utilize multiple facets of the map makes it interesting.

While I will agree that getting switched almost every round (from winner to probable loser especially) does get tiring, it is still far better than playing defense 10 rounds in a row. I really don't know if there is a single player who prefers defense over offense. It just has so much more downtime.. sure, it takes about the same time to get back into the fight after dying, but at least as an attacker you spend 30 seconds running around, planning your attack, and not just watching what others are up to, praying that you will spawn in a good spot.

A selectable spawn option for defense would shake things up a bit... nothing quite as bad as spawning on the walls when the attackers are capping the flag. Although I am sure that if everyone just chose one close to the flag, it would get a little tricky to cap the flag. I just think that if while spectating you see maybe 5 guys on the backdoor, then you spawn in the front of the castle where you can't do anything except type "incoming backdoor" makes you feel so useless. Whats the point of spectating if you can't directly act on it? It would be great if you saw guys going to the left side, so you switch your spawn from right to left, and as soon as you spawn in you get to put down their little sneak attack on your own (or die trying, no doubt gloriously). Maybe having 4 general spawn areas could work? Back, front, left and right or something to that effect.
Title: Re: NA2's Population - Would Map Rotation Alterations Help?
Post by: Tojo on August 01, 2013, 02:03:27 am
Quote from: san. on August 01, 2013, 01:20:10 am
I'm not sure why I stopped playing seige. I felt the monotony after a while that I don't feel with battle mode. The reason I continue not to play it is because  it's not as fun for me, and you get switched every round. Some core mechanics probably needs to be changed for me to go back to it. There's no more situations where I feel like "I guess I'll play siege," I just completely exit out of the game. New, interesting maps and good spawns are definitely a start. Being able to utilize multiple facets of the map makes it interesting.

you should get your Chaos buddies in Na2 sometime just to help out the population. I see Desire in siege every once in awhile.
Now it takes a whole clan to  bring life to Siege, which it seems is mostly HG and BQ's job, with a handful of MB now and then
Title: Re: NA2's Population - Would Map Rotation Alterations Help?
Post by: San on August 01, 2013, 02:05:05 am
I actually like both offense and defense. The only thing that irks me about defense is having to find strategic times to kill myself when I feel like I can't defend the Xth enemy wave with 25% health.

Edit: The reason for the complaint about the switch is that I can't get that feeling of teamwork when its members keep switching around. It's pretty difficult to pull off in just one round.
Title: Re: NA2's Population - Would Map Rotation Alterations Help?
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on August 01, 2013, 05:23:00 am
Hrafninn Castle seriously needs to go, it was a great map made in a way that ladders worked properly in it, without ladders it is unfortunately completely shit though, and I sadly don't see ladders being returned to siege anytime soon (especially as it'd require 90% of maps to be removed).
Title: Re: NA2's Population - Would Map Rotation Alterations Help?
Post by: Pentecost on August 01, 2013, 03:09:45 pm
I'm not sure that a new map rotation would fix the problem of people not playing siege, but it would at least begin to address the issue somewhat.

I think a big part of why a good number of established players stay away from NA2 most of the time is because the battles there are not very dynamic compared to those you'll find on NA1. When almost all cavalry builds and a large number of ranged builds are useless on the majority of siege maps and players with high agility are handicapped on a large number of siege maps, they inevitably gravitate towards NA1 rather than NA2. The presence of pretty much only infantry on siege means that every match will start to feel the same to your average melee player and he will most likely get bored and leave after a few rounds, especially if he is having trouble sustaining a multiplier. It's basically the same reason why every single melee-only server to date has failed.

Try introducing some maps that allow all classes and builds to contribute in a meaningful way (as battle does) but aren't just "here's a flag on top of a big hill" or something like that and see if the population on NA2 increases at all.
Title: Re: NA2's Population - Would Map Rotation Alterations Help?
Post by: Elindor on August 01, 2013, 03:59:58 pm
Not a bad idea Pentecost.

Plus, HA wouldn't be as annoying in siege cause you wouldn't have 50+ people just waiting for them to die so the round will start again :)