cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Palurgee on July 29, 2013, 01:41:58 pm
Title: Dagger instant draw
Post by: Palurgee on July 29, 2013, 01:41:58 pm
The dagger as we know it is a joke weapon. It is used by novelty characters or worn as an aesthetic. Why not add more depth to combat by giving the dagger a practical reason to be used, as it often was in history?
My suggestion is that the dagger is drawn instantly. The moment you scroll up on your mouse wheel, boom, the dagger is in your hand and ready to strike. I think this would add a fun new dynamic to melee, especially in close quarters. "Daggers" include peasant knife, knife, dagger, long dagger, (khyber knife?), and rondel dagger.
+1's please
Title: Re: Dagger instant draw
Post by: Miwiw on July 29, 2013, 01:45:02 pm
It's really quickly drawn already. And as it is really small its often impossible to block every hit of it, unless you take some distance and swing at the enemy as he cannot block with it.
It's not really supposed to be a real weapon so it doesn't need a buff.
Title: Re: Dagger instant draw
Post by: Lannistark on July 29, 2013, 01:54:05 pm
I really like the idea. How about expanding on it and making the dagger attack instantly the moment you draw it?
Now before everyone says ridiculous, think about how players with daggers are unable to block and get killed in matter of seconds. This could be the only chance they have for a surprise attack -most players wouldn't even notice as you need a shitload of strikes to kill someone with a dagger anyways, that would in turn be similar to its actual use back then. Stealth, swift killing.
Title: Re: Dagger instant draw
Post by: Nightmare798 on July 29, 2013, 02:13:56 pm
short sword is 0 slot so whatever
Title: Re: Dagger instant draw
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on July 29, 2013, 02:22:36 pm
The dagger as we know it is a joke weapon. It is used by novelty characters or worn as an aesthetic. Why not add more depth to combat by giving the dagger a practical reason to be used, as it often was in history?
My suggestion is that the dagger is drawn instantly. The moment you scroll up on your mouse wheel, boom, the dagger is in your hand and ready to strike. I think this would add a fun new dynamic to melee, especially in close quarters. "Daggers" include peasant knife, knife, dagger, long dagger, (khyber knife?), and rondel dagger.
+1's please
If you add this it will take about 2 minutes and people will start abusing it by hitting with normal weapon, upscroll and instahit with dagger, upscroll, regular weapon, etc... Naw...
Title: Re: Dagger instant draw
Post by: Gravoth_iii on July 29, 2013, 02:24:49 pm
Add dagger to be used as a nudge, with some sort of balanced damage output.
Title: Re: Dagger instant draw
Post by: Palurgee on July 29, 2013, 02:25:35 pm
It's really quickly drawn already. And as it is really small its often impossible to block every hit of it, unless you take some distance and swing at the enemy as he cannot block with it.
It's not really supposed to be a real weapon so it doesn't need a buff.
As far as I know, it is drawn as quickly as any other weapon, the only difference is the animation. I could try to prove this later. It isn't "impossible" to block every hit of it. If you know how to block you can easily beat any dagger user; hell, even if you can't block you can beat a dagger user. The longer weapon almost always wins in the case of the dagger. You say the dagger isn't "supposed to be a real weapon." That's the entire point of this suggestion, giving the dagger a place in combat. A two-hander is fighting a two-hander and suddenly his opponent draws a dagger. He reacts, but not quickly enough, and dies from a rondel to the gut. It'll add more depth to melee, and according to this poll (http://forum.meleegaming.com/announcements/crpg-ingame-feature-what-is-it-you-want/ (http://forum.meleegaming.com/announcements/crpg-ingame-feature-what-is-it-you-want/)), most cRPG players want "adding more depth to combat."
Title: Re: Dagger instant draw
Post by: Haboe on July 29, 2013, 03:17:03 pm
Rondel dagger is a proper weapon already. I made it +3, not to troll with it, but simply because its good.
Title: Re: Dagger instant draw
Post by: Huscarlton_Banks on July 30, 2013, 07:32:07 am
Seems okay as long as you restrict players to one dagger.
Backstabbing would also make sense for squishier targets.
I'd suggest making offhand parrying dagger shields that require direction blocking, but have reduced block stun times and a slightly enhanced nudge, but that would probably be a pain in the ass to implement.
Title: Re: Dagger instant draw
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on July 30, 2013, 08:48:40 am
Faster but not instant draw speed would be nice. I have 6 loomed daggers so my input is biased, but I don't want them to be OP. Part of the fun is killing someone with your cheap, stylish, underpowered weapon.
As a main weapon, they can be deadly when used for a flurry of attacks (not spamming, you need to have meaning to the directions of your swing) and are excellent with high blockspeed shields.
Title: Re: Dagger instant draw
Post by: Paul on July 30, 2013, 02:07:04 pm
I can imagine a dagger fast draw with dropping the previously wielded weapon. Dunno how to pull it off codewise yet though.
Title: Re: Dagger instant draw
Post by: Huscarlton_Banks on July 30, 2013, 03:28:16 pm
Well, if you trigger certain key like you did with nudge, I'd imagine it'd be something like this:
("cf_fast_draw", [ (store_script_param_1, ":fast_draw_agent"), (agent_is_active, ":fast_draw_agent"), (agent_is_human, ":fast_draw_agent"), (agent_is_alive, ":fast_draw_agent"), (agent_get_item_slot, ":slot0_item", ":fast_draw_agent", 0), (agent_get_item_slot, ":slot1_item", ":fast_draw_agent", 1), (agent_get_item_slot, ":slot2_item", ":fast_draw_agent", 2), (agent_get_item_slot, ":slot3_item", ":fast_draw_agent", 3), (assign, ":fast_draw_dagger", -1), #for a check later (try_begin), #Insert item ids of quickdraw daggers below, you guys probably have more but this is just an example (this_or_next|eq, ":slot0_item", "itm_cleaver"), (this_or_next|eq, ":slot0_item", "itm_sickle"), (this_or_next|eq, ":slot0_item", "itm_knife"), (this_or_next|eq, ":slot0_item", "itm_dagger"), (assign, ":fast_draw_dagger", ":slot0_item"), (else_try), (this_or_next|eq, ":slot1_item", "itm_cleaver"), (this_or_next|eq, ":slot1_item", "itm_sickle"), (this_or_next|eq, ":slot1_item", "itm_knife"), (this_or_next|eq, ":slot1_item", "itm_dagger"), (assign, ":fast_draw_dagger", ":slot1_item"), (else_try), (this_or_next|eq, ":slot2_item", "itm_cleaver"), (this_or_next|eq, ":slot2_item", "itm_sickle"), (this_or_next|eq, ":slot2_item", "itm_knife"), (this_or_next|eq, ":slot2_item", "itm_dagger"), (assign, ":fast_draw_dagger", ":slot2_item"), (else_try), (this_or_next|eq, ":slot3_item", "itm_cleaver"), (this_or_next|eq, ":slot3_item", "itm_sickle"), (this_or_next|eq, ":slot3_item", "itm_knife"), (this_or_next|eq, ":slot3_item", "itm_dagger"), (assign, ":fast_draw_dagger", ":slot3_item"), (try_end), (neq, ":fast_draw_dagger", -1), (agent_get_wielded_item, ":cur_weapon", ":fast_draw_agent", 0), #current right hand item (neq, ":cur_weapon", "itm_cleaver"), (neq, ":cur_weapon", "itm_sickle"), (neq, ":cur_weapon", "itm_knife"), (neq, ":cur_weapon", "itm_dagger"), #no fast drawing from a fast draw dagger to another fast draw dagger (neq, ":cur_weapon", "itm_throwing_daggers"), #also disable any throwing because I have no idea how to spawn throwing items with x ammo (neq, ":cur_weapon", -1"), #empty hand (try_begin), (eq, ":slot0_item", ":cur_weapon"), #find the first item slot that has current right hand item so that you can unequip it without messing up any other copies of that weapon (assign, ":drop_item_slot", 0), (else_try), (eq, ":slot1_item", ":cur_weapon"), (assign, ":drop_item_slot", 1), (else_try), (eq, ":slot2_item", ":cur_weapon"), (assign, ":drop_item_slot", 2), (else_try), (eq, ":slot3_item", ":cur_weapon"), (assign, ":drop_item_slot", 3), (try_end), (agent_get_position, pos1, ":fast_draw_agent"), (position_set_z_to_ground_level, pos1), (agent_unequip_item, ":fast_draw_agent", ":cur_weapon", ":drop_item_slot"), #unequip item, current right hand item vanishes (agent_set_wielded_item, ":fast_draw_agent", ":fast_draw_dagger"), #wield the dagger (set_spawn_position, pos1), (spawn_item, ":cur_weapon", 0, 0), #make a new copy of the last wielded item on the ground (try_end),
I'm not familiar with any of the WSE operations, so you could probably do something fancier.
EDIT: Whoops, forgot an empty hand check.
Title: Re: Dagger instant draw
Post by: Paul on July 30, 2013, 06:43:14 pm
i'll think about it
Title: Re: Dagger instant draw
Post by: Silfarion on July 31, 2013, 07:36:59 am
YOU MEAN LIKE THIS?
http://youtu.be/7L8ByreRfUo?t=1m34s
Title: Re: Dagger instant draw
Post by: Lannistark on July 31, 2013, 10:48:51 am
Title: Re: Dagger instant draw
Post by: Paul on July 31, 2013, 12:02:31 pm
I solved most problems and coded it. Remaining problem is what hotkey should be used or how it should be triggered. We don't have customisable game keys yet so just setting a fixed hotkey might annoy people.
Title: Re: Dagger instant draw
Post by: Macropus on July 31, 2013, 12:12:12 pm
Quote
The moment you scroll up on your mouse wheel, boom, the dagger is in your hand and ready to strike.
So why need a button for this, if we're talking about just quicker weapon draw?
Title: Re: Dagger instant draw
Post by: Paul on July 31, 2013, 12:19:25 pm
Because quick drawing is dropping your previously wielded weapon for a significant faster drawing of a dagger. It's seperated from the normal weapon change stuff. I can make it left ctrl for now.
Title: Re: Dagger instant draw
Post by: Jarold on July 31, 2013, 01:52:46 pm
So you drop your main weapon, let's say Great Maul, for the instant draw? To me that sounds good so you don't have ppl explliting it by hitting then insta hit dagger.
Title: Re: Dagger instant draw
Post by: Haboe on July 31, 2013, 01:55:37 pm
Because quick drawing is dropping your previously wielded weapon for a significant faster drawing of a dagger. It's seperated from the normal weapon change stuff. I can make it left ctrl for now.
My teamspeak key xD
Why not just a letter? Like B or N :P
Title: Re: Dagger instant draw
Post by: Butan on July 31, 2013, 02:00:19 pm
Because quick drawing is dropping your previously wielded weapon for a significant faster drawing of a dagger. It's seperated from the normal weapon change stuff. I can make it left ctrl for now.
Really neat gameplay option Paul!!! Kudos to you.
So we couldnt quick draw a weapon twice in a row since we would have only one weapon left in our hands ? Nice, because if it was too easy to spam it would look stupid.
Title: Re: Dagger instant draw
Post by: Necrorave on July 31, 2013, 03:36:48 pm
How about make the drawing of a dagger chamber weapons?
I don't see how this could be abused too badly. (Maybe macro weapon changing)
I think it would add a nice effect to the game. It wouldn't leave you completely defenseless, but there would be no worries of an instant attack.
EDIT: I see a change was already made. I guess I was too late!
Title: Re: Dagger instant draw
Post by: Butan on July 31, 2013, 04:04:00 pm
How about make the drawing of a dagger chamber weapons?
I don't see how this could be abused too badly. (Maybe macro weapon changing)
I think it would add a nice effect to the game. It wouldn't leave you completely defenseless, but there would be no worries of an instant attack.
EDIT: I see a change was already made. I guess I was too late!
Since a real chamber would be more effective (attacking is better than just drawing), I dont see how it could be unbalanced so would be a nice little touch to this new gameplay option (and would really feel classy as fuck).
Title: Re: Dagger instant draw
Post by: Mikhos on July 31, 2013, 05:26:49 pm
I really like the idea of the instant draw at the cost of dropping your previously held weapon. +1 good idea.
Title: Re: Dagger instant draw
Post by: Rico on August 11, 2013, 05:50:25 pm
Apparently it already got added in the last patch. Could the dagger users among you give some opinions if it's a useful feature and give hints how to benefit from it?
Title: Re: Dagger instant draw
Post by: XyNox on August 11, 2013, 06:46:07 pm
Experimented with this some hours yesterday.
When approaching people with a dagger, people usually use holds or feints to make chambering as hard as possible. With the quickdraw however, you can switch to the dagger immediately and it is ready to strike withing a few milliseconds. This allows for quite a neat combo for me as an archer:
Run at people with bow ready. People will think "OMG stooped archer ! Archer cant block with bow". People will just swing without using holds or feints and then POW, I use the quickdraw and chamber the swing a few milliseconds later. Thats how fast it is.
There is a "cooldown" however while drawing a bow and some short period after so you cant instaswitch after just releasing an arrow. It also doesnt seem to work when you are hit. I am further investigating this, possibly you can chain it with some neat nudges.
Title: Re: Dagger instant draw
Post by: Utrakil on August 14, 2013, 04:58:15 pm
What is the " you are to off-balanced to do the dagger quickdraw" about??
Title: Re: Dagger instant draw
Post by: FrugFrug on August 14, 2013, 05:08:20 pm
To stop you from swinging and then immediately quick-drawing and getting another one in.