cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Rumblood on July 27, 2013, 10:11:23 pm
-
So always and forever there is the call and return of "Get a shield!" and "Shields don't help!"
I'd like to consider a change. It would require a rebalance of upkeep, slots and probably weight for shielders, but I think that it could be a positive change.
The basic premise would be to make shields 100% effective (for the life of the shield) against ranged attacks from both the front and the back. They should not be a complete turtle shell, however, and so they should be exposed on the sides in the 80-100 degree arc. i.e., perpendicular +/- 10 degrees. This would give the shielder a total of 320 degrees of coverage against ranged items.
The one item I do not know is whether it can be coded (or should be coded) to allow melee attacks to get through the shield on the back.
To be clear, you would have to have 2 shields for this benefit, one equipped in front, the other worn on the back.
Also to add further clarification, force field would NOT work in those two 20 degree arcs of non-coverage.
-
wh...whaaaa?
-
Shields shouldn't be a no-skill force field bubble around the player. Having protection limited to the shield itself is realistic and adds depth to the class. Similarly, being able to shoot bits that aren't properly shielded adds depth to ranged play. If you're having trouble, try actually moving your shield in front of the missile instead of just holding it up and expecting it to block automatically. If that's too hard, consider getting a bigger shield.
This is not really related to the thread topic, but in my opinion shields should be a little less durable since they're practically unbreakable unless you're using a weapon with bonus vs. shields. They should also be lighter and faster with a noticeable speed increase with shield skill.
-
Shields shouldn't be a no-skill force field bubble around the player. Having protection limited to the shield itself is realistic and adds depth to the class. Similarly, being able to shoot bits that aren't properly shielded adds depth to ranged play. If you're having trouble, try actually moving your shield in front of the missile instead of just holding it up and expecting it to block automatically. If that's too hard, consider getting a bigger shield.
This is not really related to the thread topic, but in my opinion shields should be a little less durable since they're practically unbreakable unless you're using a weapon with bonus vs. shields. They should also be lighter and faster with a noticeable speed increase with shield skill.
imo forcefield is as of now fine, i do not agree with this idea and i am shielder. however, making shield block only blows only on its surface would make this game realistic, but it would also make archers incredibly overpowered [doubly so with recent buff].
also while it is true that they are durable to arrows and bolts, swords are able to beat in time, and axes just plain destroy them [which is why i think that axes should recieve nerf on speed]
-
Change shields so that the forcefield doesn't couver more than the shield itself.
but it would also make archers incredibly overpowered [doubly so with recent buff].
Archers are still underpowered what that fucking movement nerf. Goddamit people!
-
Change shields so that the forcefield doesn't couver more than the shield itself.
Archers are still underpowered what that fucking movement nerf. Goddamit people!
you attack at range and can two hit a guy in chain mail.
WHAT MORE WOULD YOU FUCKING WANT?
-
you attack at range and can two hit a guy in chain mail.
WHAT MORE WOULD YOU FUCKING WANT?
To be able to fight, and not be tied down every time some skilless spammer comes at me! It's way too easy to kill an archer as it is!
-
To be able to fight, and not be tied down every time some skilless spammer comes at me! It's way too easy to kill an archer as it is!
as far as i know parrying and attacking is not related to movement speed. position yourself near other players or get some blocking skillz.
-
Shields shouldn't be a no-skill force field bubble around the player. Having protection limited to the shield itself is realistic and adds depth to the class. Similarly, being able to shoot bits that aren't properly shielded adds depth to ranged play. If you're having trouble, try actually moving your shield in front of the missile instead of just holding it up and expecting it to block automatically. If that's too hard, consider getting a bigger shield.
I'M A HORSE ARCHER......... :?
-
There are already too many shielders.
-
There are already too many shielders.
There are never too many of any class, just too many players willing to complain about a class.
-
Shields shouldn't be a no-skill force field bubble thing around the player.
They already are. Timing your blocks and facing one archer is trivial. Doing the same thing reliably with two archers that were gifted with a brain is impossible. Now you might say, shielders should turn their shields when the shots are fired. Problem though, arrows move much too fast for that.
On topic, I believe this suggestion is exaggerated. Reverting the "force fields" back to the way they used to be like two years ago would be a nice thing though. First reason would be to fix the all too frequent shots that simply go through the sides of the shield models, second would be to make shields actually worthwhile against range, like OP said. More importantly IMO, missile speed should be lowered to introduce some element of skill.
There are already too many shielders.
Yes, I can still see one or two behind the hordes of 2h when I squint
-
There are already too many shielders.
because there are too many archers.
-
Shielders should just be able to chase archers easier. A tweak to shield weight or a sprint mode when holding block would be possible fixes.
It isn't too difficult to block against multiple archers that are mostly in front of you. If you get surrounded, it becomes very difficult but not impossible.
-
Doesn't seem such a popular suggestion on the poll, though I've seen them turn around with a statistically significant polling size. I still think the idea has some merit given various tweaks to address specific concerns (which thus far I have not actually seen, besides just a general "I don't like it")
To those who decided to minus despite a poll being available to relay your opinion, I can only say that at least I am attempting to come up with modifications that address players grievances with a balancing feature (and perhaps some are considering this a buff), rather than simply telling the other class to fuck off and die, or create yet another "nerf this class" thread.
-
as far as i know parrying and attacking is not related to movement speed. position yourself near other players or get some blocking skillz.
Cute.
Im guessing you dont know the game? You can't attack with shitty weapons and wpf if the enemy moves away after you block. They do that, and they spam, and they run around you to attack because you're just too heavy to catch on.
This weight nerf that for some reason is still on, has essentially turned inf classes into heavy hitting agi whores as far as archers are concerned.
But no, god forbid archers can actually defend themselfs.
-
you already use ultramagnetic crpg neodymium shields... i cant shot ur foot or head, its attract my arrows.
Same neodymium ultramagnetic shields:
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
And u can use this ubermagnetic stewpot lid, its made from Apple Inc. its little but very good protection, apple guys have done.
iShield 4:
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Finally u can use this ubermagnetic shield again. GPS, 4G-5G connection, pico technological scratch resistant, parking sensor, sunroof and more...
iShield 5:
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
CRPG already stupid, pls dont fk realism.
-
Am I the only one getting the sarcasm ? Rumblood is just suggesting what crying shielders want to be reality, which is almost total protection from ranged without having anything to do for it. This post is just a parody of the average shielders mind.
Right Rumblood ? This IS meant to be sarcastic, right ?
Also pure archery is dead, hybrid is the way to go now. I made the mistake of going str archer after a long time again this gen and it sucks balls.
-
Am I the only one getting the sarcasm ? Rumblood is just suggesting what crying shielders want to be reality, which is almost total protection from ranged without having anything to do for it. This post is just a parody of the average shielders mind.
Right Rumblood ? This IS meant to be sarcastic, right ?
Also pure archery is dead, hybrid is the way to go now. I made the mistake of going str archer after a long time again this gen and it sucks balls.
Coming from GranPappy I was suspicious too but hey. The game will be balanced when archers cry about shielders as much as 2h cry about archers. Here is a parody of the average archer's mind : "all other classes have to use teamwork and man up and shut their mouths because they all are ignorant whiners, I'm the only one speaking objectively about my class because I play it. There are a lot of ways to counter my class, and they are very effective. Example : sometimes I die."
-
Cute.
Im guessing you dont know the game? You can't attack with shitty weapons and wpf if the enemy moves away after you block. They do that, and they spam, and they run around you to attack because you're just too heavy to catch on.
This weight nerf that for some reason is still on, has essentially turned inf classes into heavy hitting agi whores as far as archers are concerned.
But no, god forbid archers can actually defend themselfs.
Well, then its your fault for sporting 150 wpf in bow and 8 power draw. Either get a balanced build or get raped in melee.
Besides I have 50 wpf in one handed and 3ps on my ranged alt and I am able to defend decently with my military sickle.
-
Well, then its your fault for sporting 150 wpf in bow and 8 power draw. Either get a balanced build or get raped in melee.
Besides i have 50 wpf and 3ps on my ranged alt and i am able to defend decently with my military sickle.
But you can't attack, or defend the second melee guy who will eventually attack too, because there is no way to beat the first one, even if you're a supernatural blocker.
'Ballanced build' isn't the issue anymore. The devs made stuff heavier precisely to slow archers down, so we are slow, and the faster guys with bigger stronger and faster weapons have just one more advantage they didn't need, but we did.
Example : I die all the time with spam, one hits, snipers, ninjas,... Please nerf more!
-
Are you arguing that you should have excellent melee capabilities at the same time as excellent ranged capabilities? If we're going to do that then I'd like the benefit of a shield while wielding my two-hander to full effect.
As for the 320-degree shield-field against ranged... As silly as the shield-field is I'm half tempted to go with it because of all the times I've been told to "get a shield". My support would be based in spite and not balance or sanity though.
-
The weight penalty is already dogs hit with even light shields. The changes needed to be on the missile speed side. How do you get headshot with the shield up over your head by a guy a mile away on top of hill. Just plain silly. I also love getting by a horse archer as he is is past me and the arrow does a u-turn. Instead of missing with shields fix the arrow bullshit
-
Are you arguing that you should have excellent melee capabilities at the same time as excellent ranged capabilities? If we're going to do that then I'd like the benefit of a shield while wielding my two-hander to full effect.
As for the 320-degree shield-field against ranged... As silly as the shield-field is I'm half tempted to go with it because of all the times I've been told to "get a shield". My support would be based in spite and not balance or sanity though.
Ya excellent melle abilities my balls. You spam the shit out of shielders nehvar. Its easier to kill you without a shield. Assholes don't get that using a shield isn't because attacking is what gets you killed with a shield
-
Well, then its your fault for sporting 150 wpf in bow and 8 power draw. Either get a balanced build or get raped in melee.
Besides I have 50 wpf in one handed and 3ps on my ranged alt and I am able to defend decently with my military sickle.
AHAH this nonsense again.
Sure, when you wanna play a class that happens to got nerfed its your fault, right ? The nerf itself is not the problem at all, you should just forget about playing that class and leave it be.
You can go "pure melee" and you get an ez mode killing machine that has loads of survivability and a fuckton of damage, still well sufficient attackspeed at the cost of movementspeed. Hybridizing in any form is not even required to have a fullscale build here.
If you go "pure archer" however, with 8 PD at 150ish wpf you got a build that can hit hard at the cost of: movementspeed, attackspeed, accuracy and meleedamage, or in short, EVERTHING other than ranged damage. Survivability is still low since the armor weight limit still applies and 150 wpf is barely enough for high tier bows. Dont even think about hybridizing with 8 PD.
In that regard, yes. Going pure archer with the current balance is your own fault because it is nerfed into oblivion, which is a balance problem and deserves to be complained about.
-
Are you arguing that you should have excellent melee capabilities at the same time as excellent ranged capabilities? If we're going to do that then I'd like the benefit of a shield while wielding my two-hander to full effect.
It's just that archers already had crappy wpf power strike and crappy weapons, skill can only go so far, so we really needed some speed in melee. And in order to have that now we have to invest heavely in athlectics and neglet powerstrike in turn. So there's no adaptability, unlike a 2hander who can invest just a few points in shield or powerthrow, as I have done in the past to full efficiency againt archers.
-
Coming from GranPappy I was suspicious too but hey. The game will be balanced when archers cry about shielders as much as 2h cry about archers. Here is a parody of the average archer's mind : "all other classes have to use teamwork and man up and shut their mouths because they all are ignorant whiners, I'm the only one speaking objectively about my class because I play it. There are a lot of ways to counter my class, and they are very effective. Example : sometimes I die."
Nope, its a serious attempt to address the concerns of the shielder class. I am entirely certain that with a 20 degree arc on either side to slip an arrow into, I would still be able to handle them from horseback, and 2 archers coordinating would be able to take them on foot.
Dreadnok, HA's have a full 180 degree on the left side of the horse, (more like 10 degrees on the right). When the "arrow does a u-turn", it is the archer turning in his seat to fire back at you. If this change were implemented, some would be caught by the shield on your back, but they would still be able to shoot straight down in a bump charge pass.
Funny, in spite of all the no's, I still haven't seen an actual argument that explains why this would not be a viable change. Just a "I'd rather nerf archers again with a reduction in missile speed". :rolleyes:
-
But you can't attack, or defend the second melee guy who will eventually attack too, because there is no way to beat the first one, even if you're a supernatural blocker.
'Ballanced build' isn't the issue anymore. The devs made stuff heavier precisely to slow archers down, so we are slow, and the faster guys with bigger stronger and faster weapons have just one more advantage they didn't need, but we did.
In 2 vs 1 scenario, you are utterly fucked if you are at bad side of the fight. remeber that its two players vs 1, mostly when i get into sitation like this I either run, or die trying [I rarely play hero and go 2vs1]
you talk about how much are archers slowed down but seriously, my lvl 20 archer proves that there is no such thing. the thing is melee guys with next to no armor without shield will always be faster, because they only carry their weapons, you on the other hand lug around with weapon, ammo, and if you arent stupid, then you will also carry sidearm.
its 3 [4 items if you carry 2 stacks or arrows] vs 1.
-
you talk about how much are archers slowed down but seriously, my lvl 20 archer proves that there is no such thing.
Two stacks of arrows weighs 20kg.
Throw in 8kg of armor on top of that, and you footwork at the same speed as somebody in gothic plate.
In 2 vs 1 scenario, you are utterly fucked if you are at bad side of the fight.
With decent ath, a melee build stands a pretty good chance of winning a 2v1, depending on his opponents' weapons and builds. On the other hand, with decent ath and a hybrid build, an archer is still pretty much screwed unless he drops his bow.
-
Nope, its a serious attempt to address the concerns of the shielder class. I am entirely certain that with a 20 degree arc on either side to slip an arrow into, I would still be able to handle them from horseback, and 2 archers coordinating would be able to take them on foot.
Dreadnok, HA's have a full 180 degree on the left side of the horse, (more like 10 degrees on the right). When the "arrow does a u-turn", it is the archer turning in his seat to fire back at you. If this change were implemented, some would be caught by the shield on your back, but they would still be able to shoot straight down in a bump charge pass.
Funny, in spite of all the no's, I still haven't seen an actual argument that explains why this would not be a viable change. Just a "I'd rather nerf archers again with a reduction in missile speed". :rolleyes:
When I call for a reduction of missile speeds, I really mean trade some of it away for more accuracy. I believe that would make both ends of a ranged fight more interesting to play.
-
Two stacks of arrows weighs 20kg.
Throw in 8kg of armor on top of that, and you footwork at the same speed as somebody in gothic plate.
With decent ath, a melee build stands a pretty good chance of winning a 2v1, depending on his opponents' weapons and builds. On the other hand, with decent ath and a hybrid build, an archer is still pretty much screwed unless he drops his bow.
i was talking about ranged all along.
-
AHAH this nonsense again.
Sure, when you wanna play a class that happens to got nerfed its your fault, right ? The nerf itself is not the problem at all, you should just forget about playing that class and leave it be.
You can go "pure melee" and you get an ez mode killing machine that has loads of survivability and a fuckton of damage, still well sufficient attackspeed at the cost of movementspeed. Hybridizing in any form is not even required to have a fullscale build here.
If you go "pure archer" however, with 8 PD at 150ish wpf you got a build that can hit hard at the cost of: movementspeed, attackspeed, accuracy and meleedamage, or in short, EVERTHING other than ranged damage. Survivability is still low since the armor weight limit still applies and 150 wpf is barely enough for high tier bows. Dont even think about hybridizing with 8 PD.
In that regard, yes. Going pure archer with the current balance is your own fault because it is nerfed into oblivion, which is a balance problem and deserves to be complained about.
what the fuck? have you played archer lately? their accuracy and missile speed got a huge fucking buff!
8pd is not going to be viable thanks to accuracy penalty, i used it as an example. but seriously i love how a fucking archer complains about movement speed.
so lets see you archer guys want:
no movement penalties
no force field
ability to outrun everyone else
while keeping your uber fucking range. tell you what? FUCK NO!!! this isnt cod for the ranged to be at top of the food chain.
EDIT: havent anyone actually realized that forcefield is infact character moving his/her shield to block the arrows? like moving the shield into its trajectory, but without animation.
-
When I call for a reduction of missile speeds, I really mean trade some of it away for more accuracy. I believe that would make both ends of a ranged fight more interesting to play.
That would be the proper trade, yes. We can agree on that.
-
what the fuck? have you played archer lately? their accuracy and missile speed got a huge fucking buff!
8pd is not going to be viable thanks to accuracy penalty, i used it as an example. but seriously i love how a fucking archer complains about movement speed.
so lets see you archer guys want:
no movement penalties
no force field
ability to outrun everyone else
while keeping your uber fucking range. tell you what? FUCK NO!!! this isnt cod for the ranged to be at top of the food chain.
EDIT: havent anyone actually realized that forcefield is infact character moving his/her shield to block the arrows? like moving the shield into its trajectory, but without animation.
As a matter of fact, currently in my 14th gen of archery I DO play as an archer with 8 PD right now, since I havent tried high PD archery for a long time. And about this one thing you are right, it isnt viable.
Also nobody in here even claimed that archers should have no movement penalties or the ability to outrun everyone, stop overreacting like a melee teenage girl. Furthermore, cod has nothing to do with archery in cRPG.
Right now 18/24 is probably hands down the best archer build there is at high level. Not because it is particularly good, rather because most other archer builds are particularly bad. All this has been discussed here hundreds of times but in case I really need to illuminate any of this, go ahead.
-
As a matter of fact, currently in my 14th gen of archery I DO play as an archer with 8 PD right now, since I havent tried high PD archery for a long time. And about this one thing you are right, it isnt viable.
Also nobody in here even claimed that archers should have no movement penalties or the ability to outrun everyone, stop overreacting like a melee teenage girl. Furthermore, cod has nothing to do with archery in cRPG.
Right now 18/24 is probably hands down the best archer build there is at high level. Not because it is particularly good, rather because most other archer builds are particularly bad. All this has been discussed here hundreds of times but in case I really need to illuminate any of this, go ahead.
irony YOU are telling me i am overreacting. archery got buff, forcefield will not disapear, and archers will continue paying for their range with their movement speed. also i dont have full build and still do well with an archer. i dont get where this QQ is comming from, because archery is now deadlier than ever.
when i use my main, wearing haubergeon i still get killed in 2 shots from bow [the fourth one].
Also nobody in here even claimed that archers should have no movement penalties or the ability to outrun everyone, stop overreacting like a melee teenage girl. Furthermore, cod has nothing to do with archery in cRPG.
'Ballanced build' isn't the issue anymore. The devs made stuff heavier precisely to slow archers down, so we are slow, and the faster guys with bigger stronger and faster weapons have just one more advantage they didn't need, but we did.
and what is this?
archers cannot be faster than melee, do you have any idea what would happen? they would just shoot, run for a while, then shoot again, and this would repeat ad nauseum.
the call of duty reference actually fits there because you archer guys want to make this game: mount and blade: pewpewpew
-
irony YOU are telling me i am overreacting. archery got buff, forcefield will not disapear, and archers will continue paying for their range with their movement speed. also i dont have full build and still do well with an archer. i dont get where this QQ is comming from, because archery is now deadlier than ever.
when i use my main, wearing haubergeon i still get killed in 2 shots from bow [the fourth one].
and what is this?
archers cannot be faster than melee, do you have any idea what would happen? they would just shoot, run for a while, then shoot again, and this would repeat ad nauseum.
the call of duty reference actually fits there because you archer guys want to make this game: mount and blade: pewpewpew
How foolish of me to think that there is any basement for a civilized argument, I fall for it every time.
Since you seem to be able to see into my brain, knowing better what I meant to say before I even thought of it, I guess there is nothing more to say eh ? Those "archer guys" all want to turn cRPG into cod afterall ... no exeption ... obviously. :lol:
-
the call of duty reference actually fits there because you archer guys want to make this game: mount and blade: pewpewpew
pewpewpew is the option left when your class sucks at melee.
-
pewpewpew is the option left when your class sucks at melee.
pewpewpew is centered around range. its like crying about 2H sucking at long range.
you just dont get it, do you?
stay at range and fire away, dont let the enemies close in or you are dead.
imo this is perfectly fine and reasonable, playing archer myself.
dammit i even get better scores with archer than a shielder ffs.
stop the QQ and l2p