cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Banok on July 25, 2013, 06:00:03 pm

Title: Block macros
Post by: Banok on July 25, 2013, 06:00:03 pm
so recent try at crpg with controller got me thinking about macros with authotkey or whatever to have certain keys block directions.

often I find after playing other games I come back to crpg and even tho my mind is thinking block down, my hand apparently has different ideas and I misclick blocks.

so having say q button always block down for me would help immensely vs those polearm animation abusers, and also having a button to block right would mean I can fight 1handers better since moving mouse right to block means I turn and face slightly wrong way making me die.

has anyone played around with this before?

PS: this is a feature I asked for in warband beta, don't see why it would be against rules, Im sure a few people do this already.
Title: Re: Block macros
Post by: Miwiw on July 25, 2013, 06:01:44 pm
I dislike any kind of macro and wouldn't allow it. Thought we had such a discussion before.
Title: Re: Block macros
Post by: Banok on July 25, 2013, 06:07:10 pm
im usually anti macro but this is simply allowing you to bind actions to different keys, it should have been coded in the game anyway.

its like using a macro to rebind nudge to something other than V
Title: Re: Block macros
Post by: Erasmas on July 25, 2013, 06:11:02 pm
I'm using macro to say "Sorry for TK :-(" If you play on EU1 or EU2, you have probably seen it. A lot. :D

EDIT:

Can someone explain to me what the block is?  :wink:
Title: Re: Block macros
Post by: Banok on July 25, 2013, 06:16:21 pm
Yes I used to use text macros to quote Monty python when playing my old char "the black knight"  :lol:
Title: Re: Block macros
Post by: Macropus on July 25, 2013, 06:17:29 pm
I see no point in using macros for blocking.  :?
Title: Re: Block macros
Post by: Kafein on July 25, 2013, 06:18:27 pm
Human-triggered macros are fine as long as they do not involve timing stuff (and even that is only bad in a few minor cases). Skill in a videogame isn't about dealing with horrible controls (and I'm not saying controls in warband are bad, I would have trouble finding a game with so many moves and such a simple and intuitive control scheme).
Title: Re: Block macros
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on July 25, 2013, 07:15:10 pm
I'm using macro to say "Sorry for TK :-(" If you play on EU1 or EU2, you have probably seen it. A lot. :D

EDIT:

Can someone explain to me what the block is?  :wink:

How do you make voice command macros? I have no idea about computer stuff...
Title: Re: Block macros
Post by: dreadnok on July 25, 2013, 07:17:54 pm
That's really not manual blocking then
Title: Re: Block macros
Post by: Erasmas on July 25, 2013, 07:19:11 pm
How do you make voice command macros? I have no idea about computer stuff...

It's not a voice command, its just an in-chat text, just as each "sorry for tk". It's a mouse function (which I have t change, BTW, cause its shape sux and forces me to grip it in a weird manned for overheads...).
Title: Re: Block macros
Post by: Elindor on July 25, 2013, 07:51:09 pm
Although this is not auto-blocker in that it does not detect the incoming attack direction and put up the appropriate block - it DOES remove half of the difficulty of manual blocking.  The skill involved in manual blocking is determining which direction the attack will come from and putting up the appropriate block in the correct timing. 

What you are talking about gets rid of much of that.  So if it's a question of "should it be allowed or not?" I would say it should not.
Title: Re: Block macros
Post by: Lennu on July 25, 2013, 07:58:45 pm
Then again, you only have limited amount of fingers.  It's really hard to press d AND f if you're trying to move your character around at the same time with wasd movement keys.
Title: Re: Block macros
Post by: Kafein on July 25, 2013, 08:00:13 pm
Although this is not auto-blocker in that it does not detect the incoming attack direction and put up the appropriate block - it DOES remove half of the difficulty of manual blocking.

No it doesn't. The mouse and the keyboard are just interfaces for you to tell the computer what you want. Moreover, blocking with 4 different key bindings would be borderline impossible as your left hand already controls your movement.

The skill involved in manual blocking is determining which direction the attack will come from and putting up the appropriate block in the correct timing. 

Exactly, and it has nothing to do with the way you make your computer understand that.

What you are talking about gets rid of much of that.  So if it's a question of "should it be allowed or not?" I would say it should not.

Refer to previous point.
Title: Re: Block macros
Post by: brockssn on July 25, 2013, 08:13:47 pm
Hmm I like this idea, what keys are you thinking about though? it would be very hard to find 4 keys easy to hit fast. I like to play at a 45 degree angle like old UO style, so I always have issues blocking up and down. This may be the fix I need.
Title: Re: Block macros
Post by: Ramza on July 25, 2013, 08:34:21 pm
Alright.
Title: Re: Block macros
Post by: Banok on July 25, 2013, 09:10:14 pm
blocking with 4 different key bindings would be borderline impossible as your left hand already controls your movement.

I find it funny people think this is the difficult part, good job you guys never tried darkfall 1 where you move, aim and need to bind about 40 things for pvp.

anyway I played around on auto hotkey trying to learn how to make a macro for this, did make one that could directional block but also span the camera around like crazy, I give up. someone with know how could make one in  a jiffy tho.

if someone does come up with a macro I would quite easily use any of these keys on my keyboard whilst still moving with WASD, C/V/Q/E/f/r/b/n/alt/crtl/tab
Title: Re: Block macros
Post by: Dionysus on July 25, 2013, 09:13:35 pm
Isn't this essentially block by movement keys, but eradicates the use of the right mouse button?
Title: Re: Block macros
Post by: Ramza on July 25, 2013, 09:20:25 pm
Alright.
Title: Re: Block macros
Post by: Turboflex on July 25, 2013, 10:03:27 pm
I find it funny people think this is the difficult part, good job you guys never tried darkfall 1 where you move, aim and need to bind about 40 things for pvp.

anyway I played around on auto hotkey trying to learn how to make a macro for this, did make one that could directional block but also span the camera around like crazy, I give up. someone with know how could make one in  a jiffy tho.

if someone does come up with a macro I would quite easily use any of these keys on my keyboard whilst still moving with WASD, C/V/Q/E/f/r/b/n/alt/crtl/tab

Haha so true, all the serious players there make key binding scripts with autoIT/autohotkey and buy 17 button razor naga mouse. Warband is smooth as fuck compared to that.
Title: Re: Block macros
Post by: //saxon on July 26, 2013, 02:23:58 am
how do players macro faint? while looking at the floor.
Title: Re: Block macros
Post by: Froto_the_Loc on July 26, 2013, 02:46:21 am
I don't really see a problem with the idea. You will lose the ridiculous spaz camera during duels, which affect epilepsy or something...
But good luck tying to find 4 accessible keys for your left hand. Most of the nearby keys are default Warband stuff or perma-bound cRPG shitWhich is another of the dumb ideas in this mod
Title: Re: Block macros
Post by: Elindor on July 26, 2013, 03:09:27 am
Kafein are you saying you don't think it removes an element of difficulty if you can just press "F" (for instance) to left block instead of making a mouse movement to do that?

If so I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

In my opinion, there is a much greater chance of mistakes if you have to make a particular mouse movement rather than just pressing a button at the right time.
Title: Re: Block macros
Post by: Vodner on July 26, 2013, 03:15:59 am
how do players macro faint? while looking at the floor.
They don't. Just do a thrust-right-thrust pattern while making large circular movements with your mouse.
Title: Re: Block macros
Post by: [ptx] on July 26, 2013, 08:04:15 am
Isn't this essentially block by movement keys, but eradicates the use of the right mouse button?
This. Have you tried that, Banok?
Title: Re: Block macros
Post by: Macropus on July 26, 2013, 08:09:34 am
Kafein are you saying you don't think it removes an element of difficulty if you can just press "F" (for instance) to left block instead of making a mouse movement to do that?
No it doesn't remove the difficulty. You have to press different key on you keyboard which partly binds your movement or makes it very predictable.
Title: Re: Block macros
Post by: Gnjus on July 26, 2013, 08:42:58 am
Don't know about blocking but EU1 is swarming with macro-feinting shitheads, they should have their hands cut off and nailed in the gates of Vienna.
Title: Re: Block macros
Post by: Macropus on July 26, 2013, 08:46:02 am
Don't know about blocking but EU1 is swarming with macro-feinting shitheads, they should have their hands cut off and nailed in the gates of Vienna.
Macro-feints are quite predictable and easy to block if you get used to it.
For example, 2h-retarded-helicopter feint will never hit with the thrust, only with one of sideswings.
Title: Re: Block macros
Post by: Vodner on July 26, 2013, 09:19:48 am
Don't know about blocking but EU1 is swarming with macro-feinting shitheads, they should have their hands cut off and nailed in the gates of Vienna.
You sure it's actually macros? There's a large overlap of Nditions players and EU1 players, so it's only inevitable that this style of feinting would make its way to cRPG. The 'standard' feint that pretty much everybody has learned looks like the player's head is bobbing, and like their sword is twirling (all while usually staring at the ground). This isn't difficult to pull of manually.
Title: Re: Block macros
Post by: Kafein on July 26, 2013, 10:25:04 am
You sure it's actually macros? There's a large overlap of Nditions players and EU1 players, so it's only inevitable that this style of feinting would make its way to cRPG. The 'standard' feint that pretty much everybody has learned looks like the player's head is bobbing, and like their sword is twirling (all while usually staring at the ground). This isn't difficult to pull of manually.

This. On top of that, feints in cRPG are quite slow unless you play a 15/27 katana build or something. Most players can manually reach the maximum feinting "speed" (minimum time between two releases). It just isn't very beneficial because the animations don't keep up unless your weapon is long or fast.

Kafein are you saying you don't think it removes an element of difficulty if you can just press "F" (for instance) to left block instead of making a mouse movement to do that?

Yes because if you want to block everything via hitting your keyboard, it means your already overloaded left hand will need to be able to press and hold for the correct amount of time any of the four keys you will choose for blocking at virtually any time. If you don't want to lose any functionality from the mouse-controlled block, you don't want this change to hinder your ability to move while blocking. That means your left hand has to be controlling four movement keys, out of which you will always use one or two during action, and at the same time without releasing the movement keys being able to hold block keys for the correct amount of time. That is simply not possible. You see, it wouldn't be a problem if you could know in advance what keys you should use when, like if you played music from a sheet, but you inherently don't know when and for how long you will have to block.

Also my point is, a game shouldn't be hard because the controls are bad. Failing should result from an error in your reasoning and reaction, not in the way you communicate it. For this reason, there's no point limiting people in the way they modify the controls to suit them.
Title: Re: Block macros
Post by: EyeBeat on July 26, 2013, 02:33:12 pm
SaulCanner I heard some filthy rumors about you and macros.

CARE TO ELABORATE?  :twisted:
Title: Re: Block macros
Post by: Turboflex on July 26, 2013, 07:08:54 pm
So what exactly is Cyranule doing to make those ultra spammy swings that seem to completely break animations?
Title: Re: Block macros
Post by: omgwtfgg503 on July 26, 2013, 07:55:25 pm
"On top of that, feints in cRPG are quite slow unless you play a 15/27 katana build or something. "


Damn you for making me make another character!  :D

As for macro spamming feint blocking....YOU BASTARDS!! DIE!! TheY'LL PAY WITH THERE LIVES!!
Title: Re: Block macros
Post by: Elindor on July 26, 2013, 07:58:18 pm
Yes because if you want to block everything via hitting your keyboard, it means your already overloaded left hand will need to be able to press and hold for the correct amount of time any of the four keys you will choose for blocking at virtually any time.

Well, a Fang or something would make that easier than a standard keyboard. 

Also my point is, a game shouldn't be hard because the controls are bad. Failing should result from an error in your reasoning and reaction, not in the way you communicate it. For this reason, there's no point limiting people in the way they modify the controls to suit them.

The warband controls aren't bad.  Actually, for the amount of flexibility and dynamic nature of the combat in warband its amazingly well designed imho that you only really need LMB, RMB, WASD, and MOUSE MOVEMENTS.   I like that blocking manually means that even though I see the attack coming from a certain direction and go to make that block, I could mess it up because I made the wrong mouse movement and blocked down instead of left or something.  It's frustrating, sure, but it's something that helps separate players and add to the overall skill curve. 
Title: Re: Block macros
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on July 26, 2013, 08:08:58 pm
So what exactly is Cyranule doing to make those ultra spammy swings that seem to completely break animations?

Think it's because he uses the inverted chambering (i.e. if he moves his mouse right as he left clicks, he'll chamber left instead of right)
Title: Re: Block macros
Post by: Vodner on July 26, 2013, 08:27:34 pm
SaulCanner I heard some filthy rumors about you and macros.

CARE TO ELABORATE?  :twisted:
I saw this (http://forum.meleegaming.com/general-off-topic/warband-crpg-macro-feints-%28now-with-video-experiments%29/) thread, and thought to myself 'I bet I can learn how to do this well enough to get accused of macro feinting'.

I was right!
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Block macros
Post by: Cyranule on July 27, 2013, 09:24:20 pm
So what exactly is Cyranule doing to make those ultra spammy swings that seem to completely break animations?

I predict what swing you'll use before you do it.  When most people block a left they respond  with a right.  Move away from the swing while moving into your own.  Simple as that.
All this does is make you swing across your chest while I'm only swinging from the shoulder to you. 

Any decent fighter knows how to counter it and will tell you I don't even attempt it on them. 
Title: Re: Block macros
Post by: Ras_FrenzYYY on July 28, 2013, 10:26:40 am
No it doesn't remove the difficulty. You have to press different key on you keyboard which partly binds your movement or makes it very predictable.

Your answer proves that you know nothing about manual blocking....

You dont manual block so please stop answering to blocking questions
Title: Re: Block macros
Post by: Macropus on July 28, 2013, 11:33:45 am
Your answer proves that you know nothing about manual blocking....

You dont manual block so please stop answering to blocking questions
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Title: Re: Block macros
Post by: Hubert on July 28, 2013, 11:51:54 am
Its simple to block lol...
All you need to do is focus lawl ;____;




GOKU
Title: Re: Block macros
Post by: Kafein on July 28, 2013, 12:34:11 pm
The warband controls aren't bad.  Actually, for the amount of flexibility and dynamic nature of the combat in warband its amazingly well designed imho that you only really need LMB, RMB, WASD, and MOUSE MOVEMENTS.   I like that blocking manually means that even though I see the attack coming from a certain direction and go to make that block, I could mess it up because I made the wrong mouse movement and blocked down instead of left or something.  It's frustrating, sure, but it's something that helps separate players and add to the overall skill curve.

I never said warband controls are bad. But like all controls they aren't perfect. Let people choose whatever suits them best.
Title: Re: Block macros
Post by: enigmatic_stranger on July 28, 2013, 08:17:42 pm
You can block and attack using your keyboard since first M&B. ;)