cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Paul on July 10, 2013, 10:19:25 am

Title: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Paul on July 10, 2013, 10:19:25 am
So what about letting a kicker who gets hit during a kick get a knockdown. It might work with a minimum amount of raw damage(20?) as a threshold or a minimum amount of real damage(5?). Either way if you get whacked while kicking you land on your ass. Any objections?
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on July 10, 2013, 10:20:55 am
Is this a rageball thing?
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Paul on July 10, 2013, 10:21:15 am
no
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on July 10, 2013, 10:27:19 am
Unless they could block while being knockdowned this is a bad idea, even then it isn't that good, dodging kicks isn't that hard, and even wellplaced perfectly timed kicks can be jumped over (or if you're a decent kicker, chamberkicked), anyone claiming kicks are overpowered atm needs to seriously learn how to play. This is coming from someone who pretty much never kicks ingame.
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: korppis on July 10, 2013, 10:31:21 am
Voted no because knockdown is very powerful and already too common. Besides kicking already opens the defense and it's risky enough. But getting hit during the kick should at least cancel it.
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Joker86 on July 10, 2013, 10:54:46 am
This sounds both realistic (hey, you are standing only on one leg, after all!) and promising to lower that kicking madness, which is NOT Sparta and even takes place when there is NO brick-built hole without practical purpose around. Which is blasphemy.

Edit: perhaps knockdown is too much, but a negative effect should be implemented. Perhaps a long Paulstagger oder something like that...
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Tzar on July 10, 2013, 10:57:41 am
No.

Because no..

When i get kicked, its my own fault of shitty footwork.

I dont see kicking to be that OP, unless you dont pay any attention while fighting, i cant see why you should punish a well landed kick  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Matey on July 10, 2013, 11:19:42 am
kicks are broken as fuck.. but i dont think this is the right solution... especially since the people who are most getting raped by kicks have gimped short reach weps that prolly wont do enough damage to knock the kicker down anyways. just change the kick back to the same as native... but without blocking.
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on July 10, 2013, 11:26:14 am
kicks are broken as fuck.. but i dont think this is the right solution... especially since the people who are most getting raped by kicks have gimped short reach weps that prolly wont do enough damage to knock the kicker down anyways. just change the kick back to the same as native... but without blocking.
Your footwork must suck hard, like, really hard.
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on July 10, 2013, 11:33:04 am
I hardly ever use kick and get kicked very, very rarely. Most of the times when somebody wants to kick you you can read this from his movement anyway, also when I play with short weapons its no problem. Some people are really good at kicking but implementing this because there are a few good ones would be a bit harsh
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Matey on July 10, 2013, 11:50:13 am
Your footwork must suck hard, like, really hard.

try playing as a 1h against someone who knows how to kick. also, if i only think kicking is OP cause my footwork sucks... then the best player in cRPG also has shitty footwork since he told me that kicking is one of the primary reasons he has given up on 1h.
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: owens on July 10, 2013, 11:54:58 am
-1 because paul


This is just a bad idea. Some of the game mechanics are fine as they are now, kicking is one of them.
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Miwiw on July 10, 2013, 12:08:21 pm
then the best player in cRPG also has shitty footwork since he told me that kicking is one of the primary reasons he has given up on 1h.

How can he be the best player then?  :lol:

And no @ topic. Knockdown grants you an extra hit which doubles the dmg already (if knocked down by a weapon). A failed kick shouldn't be punished imo. Usually its being punished already as people are often fast enough for a hit in most cases.
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on July 10, 2013, 12:17:20 pm
try playing as a 1h against someone who knows how to kick. also, if i only think kicking is OP cause my footwork sucks... then the best player in cRPG also has shitty footwork since he told me that kicking is one of the primary reasons he has given up on 1h.
I play 1h about 50% of the time, 90 reach weapon, low armor and str rating, I've not had a very hard time with any of the EU kickers, including the best ones. Take some fucking precautions, don't facehug at predictable times or for longer periods, even with a freaking rondel dagger you can rightswing someone without being in kicking reach, and when you think someone will try to kick you, jump and swing.
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Rico on July 10, 2013, 12:22:18 pm
I think chamberkick is enough!
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Paul on July 10, 2013, 12:26:26 pm
Ok, I get -1 for putting up polls for mechanic decisions. That means people don't want to be a part of decision making. I'm I correct? I think the best is to not put up polls for that again and leave it to internal decision making.
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: korppis on July 10, 2013, 12:36:31 pm
Maybe it's just people not knowing which one is the real poll: the poll that reads "Poll", or the poll on the post that describes it.

Here have a +1.  :)
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: BlueKnight on July 10, 2013, 12:42:13 pm
Ok, I get -1 for putting up polls for mechanic decisions. That means people don't want to be a part of decision making. I'm I correct? I think the best is to not put up polls for that again and leave it to internal decision making.
fuck +&-... who cares about internet acceptance  :rolleyes:

Also people tend to - ideas and statements they disagree with, so not only do players vote but also tend to rate 1st post. By rating the first post they just express if they agree or not.

I don't see the point of - you anyway as you are (prolly) the most active dev who wants to improve the mod and at least tries adding some new things. You deserve a cookie. Nudges got ballanced so you and animation-maker (Tydeus?) did well.

Keep up the good work but please... no more knockdown thingies.
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Joker86 on July 10, 2013, 01:20:14 pm
fuck +&-... who cares about internet acceptance  :rolleyes:

Also people tend to - ideas and statements they disagree with, so not only do players vote but also tend to rate 1st post. By rating the first post they just express if they agree or not.

I don't see the point of - you anyway as you are (prolly) the most active dev who wants to improve the mod and at least tries adding some new things. You deserve a cookie. Nudges got ballanced so you and animation-maker (Tydeus?) did well.

Keep up the good work but please... no more knockdown thingies.

Damn right - plussing all Paul posts in this topic.
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Vodner on July 10, 2013, 04:33:58 pm
Rather than knockdown, how about boosting the damage taken by the kicker to that of a perfectly held strike (+25% damage)?

The issue with kicking is that the followup strike is pretty much a guaranteed held headshot. When punishing a poor kick, the attacker usually doesn't have time to hold.

As an aside, people tend to treat the +/- buttons as agree/disagree. It's not really worth reading too much into it.

Quote
I play 1h about 50% of the time, 90 reach weapon, low armor and str rating, I've not had a very hard time with any of the EU kickers, including the best ones. Take some fucking precautions, don't facehug at predictable times or for longer periods, even with a freaking rondel dagger you can rightswing someone without being in kicking reach, and when you think someone will try to kick you, jump and swing.
I can usually dodge the new kicks as a 1h, but with shorter 1h it pretty much forces me to sacrifice the ability to maximize my speed bonus on left swings (since the optimal path for a high speed bonus hit is predictable).

I can play 1h, but at the moment I frankly find it a lot easier to play a heavily armored, balanced build with my 'S' key glued down for half the round. So that's what I do. I'm sure I'm steadily getting worse at the game from this playstyle, but it racks in so many kills I just don't care.
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Rebelyell on July 10, 2013, 04:37:36 pm
just put back old kick in with no block maybe bit faster
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Necrorave on July 10, 2013, 04:40:01 pm
The idea would make sense.  Although, the kicker is already being punished....They got hit.

Second, I know this has been said too much but I feel we need to get kicks in order first.  The hit boxes are still weird.

EDIT:  Maybe you can add the stagger effect instead?
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on July 10, 2013, 04:43:10 pm
Ok, I get -1 for putting up polls for mechanic decisions. That means people don't want to be a part of decision making. I'm I correct? I think the best is to not put up polls for that again and leave it to internal decision making.

I could see -1'ing your post if you didn't put up a poll, but since you did, I don't see why...haters gonna hate.

I personally think that it would make sense for someone to get knocked down if they get hit while trying to kick.  You tried to kick someone to the ground, if you were successful they would have gotten knocked down.  Whiffing doesn't hurt you, but getting hit should have some penalty to it while your leg is in the air.

Especially considering the fact that kicks are now like 5 feet in front of the player model and about 2 or 3 feet wide (Zlisch I agreed with your first part of your post, but your second is wrong, a rondel will never outreach a kick if you are both stationary, aka in a vacuum). 

This is what kicks remind me of now: 

(click to show/hide)

Or don't implement the change Paul is suggesting, and just bring back the old kicks
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Angantyr on July 10, 2013, 05:17:29 pm
I like the suggestion. A higher penalty for kicks which now that nudge is in should be more rare.
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Butan on July 10, 2013, 05:21:41 pm
Put back blocking while kicking + knockdown if wounded while kicking = balanced

Add knockdown over impossible to block over kick chamber = kick so nerfed it will become even less used and could very well disapear from the game except for a few risktaker pro players...
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on July 10, 2013, 05:50:43 pm
Zlisch I agreed with your first part of your post, but your second is wrong, a rondel will never outreach a kick if you are both stationary, aka in a vacuum. 
A rondel might be a slight overexageration, however my point is that with the rightswing with the vast majority of 1hs will become considerably long, it gives around the same reach bonus as the 2h stab.
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Turboflex on July 10, 2013, 05:55:13 pm
This is a good suggestion there needs to be more downside to kick it's so cheesy and heavily abused by certain players.
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: San on July 10, 2013, 06:02:44 pm
It should just cancel the kick. Extra stun like knockdown, freeze, paralyze, etc are all extremely strong gameplay mechanics. Knockdown is arguably better than some of those aforementioned status effects. It should be used very lightly.

Edit: Saul's suggestion sounds good, slightly increased damage if you get hit out of it.
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Paul on July 10, 2013, 06:12:56 pm
I can't cancel the kick. It's just too quick. That's the main problem of chamberkicking too. The time interval between starting and connecting a kick is very small.
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Memento_Mori on July 10, 2013, 06:31:13 pm
I can't cancel the kick. It's just too quick. That's the main problem of chamberkicking too. The time interval between starting and connecting a kick is very small.

Noticed this last night in duel the guy swung, I kicked, I got hit, he got kicked, we were both stunned.(obviously doesn't happen like this everytime)
Looked kinda silly with us both being stunned.

If you can't make the swing cancel the kick, then I think what Vodner/Saul suggested would be good, knockdown is pretty harsh, but then again I normally use longer weapons(even on my 1hchars) & don't notice kicks too much so maybe they deserve the extra punishment  :twisted:

Anyway I like
Rather than knockdown, how about boosting the damage taken by the kicker to that of a perfectly held strike (+25% damage)?

Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Kalp on July 10, 2013, 06:38:53 pm
Quote
fix strat
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Kafein on July 10, 2013, 07:43:24 pm
even with a freaking rondel dagger you can rightswing someone without being in kicking reach

This isn't true. Both players with the same weight and the same agility, if one guy has a <50 reach weapon and the other actually moves, either the short weapon guy always misses or just doesn't attack, either he is vulnerable to kicks. With a short weapon and some uncertainty on where your enemy will be in the near future (because he is movign too), you are forced to make provisions and end up slightly closer to the enemy than your max reach. The only way to effectively counter kicks with short weapons is to facehug and turn around your enemy very quickly, as landing kicks in such a situation can be difficult.


Most people don't kick with the intent of being hit while they kick anyway so this wouldn't change the game much I think. If kicks are going to be buffed in any way to compensate for that, then just don't do it.
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Kaoklai on July 10, 2013, 08:55:32 pm
You might want to change the op

So what about letting a kicker who gets hit during a kick get a knockdown knocked down. It might work with a minimum amount of raw damage(20?) as a threshold or a minimum amount of real damage(5?). Either way if you get whacked while kicking you land on your ass. Any objections?

Also, -1 for whining about -1.  Don't take your ball and go home to mommy just because of a number in the corner of a forum post.  It's far in the positive anyways. 

Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Joker86 on July 10, 2013, 09:03:45 pm
You might want to change the op

Also, -1 for whining about -1.  Don't take your ball and go home to mommy just because of a number in the corner of a forum post.  It's far in the positive anyways.

You tell people to not care about -1 since they don't mean anything, and yet you keep dishing them out left and right without brain or reason?
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: XyNox on July 10, 2013, 09:06:27 pm
I can't cancel the kick. It's just too quick. That's the main problem of chamberkicking too. The time interval between starting and connecting a kick is very small.

Very often when I see someone who has been knocked down gets hit, he stands up again immediately, even decreasing the duration of the knockdown animation because it seems the stagger of the most recent hit completely overrides any staggering animation that was applied before ( and a melee hit stagger animation is obviously severely shorter than a knockdown animation ). Would it be possible to trigger a modified "zero-length" stagger animation at the same instant ( or one tick afterwards ) as someone successfully chambers a kick, so the actual, unavoidable kickstagger applied to the person who chamberkicks, gets neutralized ?

@ topic, when I get kicked its my own fault, nothing unfair about that.
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Kaoklai on July 10, 2013, 09:12:14 pm
You tell people to not care about -1 since they don't mean anything, and yet you keep dishing them out left and right without brain or reason?

Joker, you're an idiot.  I didn't say -1 mean nothing, I said they aren't significant enough for a dev to GTX the forums.  It's okay, the notion that not all things are binary escapes many a nerd.  And I -1 fairly selectively, it just so happens that I find most of the posts on these boards wanting (also, autodownvote Kesh in diplomacy). 
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Paul on July 10, 2013, 09:28:38 pm
Very often when I see someone who has been knocked down gets hit, he stands up again immediately, even decreasing the duration of the knockdown animation because it seems the stagger of the most recent hit completely overrides any staggering animation that was applied before ( and a melee hit stagger animation is obviously severely shorter than a knockdown animation ). Would it be possible to trigger a modified "zero-length" stagger animation at the same instant ( or one tick afterwards ) as someone successfully chambers a kick, so the actual, unavoidable kickstagger applied to the person who chamberkicks, gets neutralized ?

@ topic, when I get kicked its my own fault, nothing unfair about that.

It might work. I haven't tested it. The fact that puking instead of kicking during nudge cooldown is shorter than a kick anim seems to indicate it might be possible.

EDIT: Doesn't work. Just tested it. At least if the anim overwrite is attempted within the on_agent_hit_trigger where the rest of the chamberkick stuff is.
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on July 10, 2013, 10:59:03 pm
Joker, you're an idiot.  I didn't say -1 mean nothing, I said they aren't significant enough for a dev to GTX the forums.  It's okay, the notion that not all things are binary escapes many a nerd.  And I -1 fairly selectively, it just so happens that I find most of the posts on these boards wanting (also, autodownvote Kesh in diplomacy).
You upvoted me once <3
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Matey on July 11, 2013, 08:56:00 am
Joker, you're an idiot.  I didn't say -1 mean nothing, I said they aren't significant enough for a dev to GTX the forums.  It's okay, the notion that not all things are binary escapes many a nerd.  And I -1 fairly selectively, it just so happens that I find most of the posts on these boards wanting (also, autodownvote Kesh in diplomacy).

You  seem to -1 the majority of my posts. I thought we had something special... but you gave my love a -1.


edit: Zilsch is my other most ardent admirer. We also used to have something special but now he hates me too. Stop playing games with my heart zilsch.
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on July 11, 2013, 02:37:41 pm
You  seem to -1 the majority of my posts. I thought we had something special... but you gave my love a -1.


edit: Zilsch is my other most ardent admirer. We also used to have something special but now he hates me too. Stop playing games with my heart zilsch.
I'd tell you that whining about -1 is the best way to get it, but I'd give it to you even if you didn't  <3
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Matey on July 11, 2013, 10:08:06 pm
I'd tell you that whining about -1 is the best way to get it, but I'd give it to you even if you didn't  <3

It's ok. you and kao keep giving me those -1s to make me look meaner! someday my infamy will lead me to be properly feared!
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Akynos on July 14, 2013, 06:39:50 am
Only the talented kick, only the talented know how to avoid kicks.

Kicking is one of the things that differenciates average players from good ones.

Don't nerf skill please and go fix the whole list of broken things which you generously included in your poll.

Thanks for taking the time to make a suggestion though.
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on July 14, 2013, 07:03:19 am
It's ok. you and kao keep giving me those -1s to make me look meaner! someday my infamy will lead me to be properly feared!
If infamy makes you look mean people must think Leshma is Satan and am I his mistress... :|
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: rufio on July 14, 2013, 07:10:25 am
So what about letting a kicker who gets hit during a kick get a knockdown. It might work with a minimum amount of raw damage(20?) as a threshold or a minimum amount of real damage(5?). Either way if you get whacked while kicking you land on your ass. Any objections?

so u cant block while kicking+ your  locked in place/animation , and now u want people to get knocked down while being hit while kicking?? you do realise that you can still get hit while your kick connects! canceling the followup of the kicker. this is already working fine, the only problem is the kick cone is rediculous. implementing this suggestion would just make kicks to risky to use. they are already risky, just eazyer to hit, change that part. not increasing the risk to the extreme. but ye you arleady said in another thread thats somehting only cmp can do. so plz dont touch kick mechanics plz
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Ujio on July 20, 2013, 08:17:03 pm
Yeah, makes sense. With one leg off the ground, you're less stable
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Bjord on July 20, 2013, 08:38:35 pm
So what about letting a kicker who gets hit during a kick get a knockdown. It might work with a minimum amount of raw damage(20?) as a threshold or a minimum amount of real damage(5?). Either way if you get whacked while kicking you land on your ass. Any objections?

Only if there's a limited window during the kick where the kicker can get knocked down. A fairly small window, long enough for reflex to matter. Typically, a knockdown would then mostly happen if the other person has an attack chambered. Also acts as a psychological counter to kickers, if they see someone with a chambered attack, they'd be more careful to kick.

And one more thing. Only if the kicker gets hit on the left leg, combined with a minimum base weight of the weapon. That way, you need some skill to aim the swing in order to punish your opponent.

Don't fuck this up, Paul.
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Nightmare798 on July 21, 2013, 12:22:05 am
Only if there's a limited window during the kick where the kicker can get knocked down. A fairly small window, long enough for reflex to matter. Typically, a knockdown would then mostly happen if the other person has an attack chambered. Also acts as a psychological counter to kickers, if they see someone with a chambered attack, they'd be more careful to kick.

And one more thing. Only if the kicker gets hit on the left leg, combined with a minimum base weight of the weapon. That way, you need some skill to aim the swing in order to punish your opponent.

Don't fuck this up, Paul.
requirement to hit kickers leg ruins this. the point is to show kcikers that they should use different tactics rather than well-ill-kick-you-and-then-one-hit-you-with-my-greatsword. plus this makes sense, because if you stand on one leg and someone hits you, you fall.
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Ragni_Bross on July 21, 2013, 03:06:37 am
Just remove kicking. It's a silly feature that doesn't belong. If that's not possible then just nerf the hell out of it until people stop doing it.
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: rufio on July 21, 2013, 09:51:58 am
kicks arent overpowered, just nuubs gonna nuub.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Ragni_Bross on July 21, 2013, 10:32:35 am
kicks arent overpowered, just nuubs gonna nuub.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Not overpowered, just plain stupid and incredibly unrealistic.
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on July 21, 2013, 10:49:22 am
Not overpowered, just plain stupid and incredibly unrealistic.
M&B melee combat in itself is incredibly unrealistic and plain stupid, Try blocking someones overhead when they swing as hard as they can irl, will you break your wrist and/or your block or magically parry if you use the same motion you do in M&B?
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Ragni_Bross on July 21, 2013, 10:55:34 am
M&B melee combat in itself is incredibly unrealistic and plain stupid, Try blocking someones overhead when they swing as hard as they can irl, will you break your wrist and/or your block or magically parry if you use the same motion you do in M&B?

The blocking animations simply represent defending a certain area of your body with your weapon. Yes, the blocks look stupid and it would be suicide to use them IRL, but seeing as giving them new animations won't affect the gameplay in any way, it's a low priority case. Kicking is stupid and unrealistic and it affects the gameplay thus it should be dealt with :/
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Artyem on July 21, 2013, 11:00:06 am
I would fucking love to see this.  I hate it when my weapon connects just as someone kicks me, I still get stunned but they're just fine and dandy.
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: rufio on July 21, 2013, 11:12:09 am
no they receive damage , and you hit that hit because they decided to kick and make them self locked in that vulnerability animation.
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Bjord on July 21, 2013, 07:56:08 pm
The blocking animations simply represent defending a certain area of your body with your weapon. Yes, the blocks look stupid and it would be suicide to use them IRL, but seeing as giving them new animations won't affect the gameplay in any way, it's a low priority case. Kicking is stupid and unrealistic and it affects the gameplay thus it should be dealt with :/

Why don't you learn game development and create this supremely realistic 'game' of yours that you always talk about.
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Macropus on July 21, 2013, 08:08:14 pm
I hate it when my weapon connects just as someone kicks me, I still get stunned but they're just fine and dandy.
Doesn't it mean that you punished him with your hit for bad-timed kick? "they're fine and dandy"? Well maybe, if you have 0 PS.

Leave kick as it is please, maybe just reduce the range or timing a bit.
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Ragni_Bross on July 21, 2013, 10:46:32 pm
Why don't you learn game development and create this supremely realistic 'game' of yours that you always talk about.

Oh I forgot, you'd rather have the swords weigh 10 kilos and the plate armour 80, right? I suppose realism can only be fully appreciated by someone who actually cares and knows about historical combat, let alone history in general. I thought you liked realism though. I mean, you made that suggestion anout a "realistic" server albeit with a whole lot of stupid ideas that I take it were yours.


And what's with the hostility towards realism? We've introduced the slot-system, the polearm axes can't use 2h mode, etc. There's already been quite a few decent fixes. This'd just be another fix and if you tweak the nudge a bit you could even replace the kick with it, which would make perfect sense. But yes, I know my words are wasted on you. You don't care about realism and even if you did you wouldn't know realism if it came up and zornhaued you in the neck.
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Bjord on July 22, 2013, 12:04:50 am
I was almost going to address your arrogant post, Ragni, but then I forgot you are devoid of humility.
No point in bothering with you.
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Ragni_Bross on July 22, 2013, 12:22:55 am
I was almost going to address your arrogant post, Ragni, but then I forgot you are devoid of humility.
No point in bothering with you.

Arrogant? Either you've lost your touch or I struck a nerve. In either case there's nothing arrogant about explaining to you that there already have been made several "realistic" fixes, nor is it arrogant to point out why you of all people have nothing to say in a discussion about realism. It may be demeaning but just because you take offense doesn't make it arrogant. And even if it were arrogant you'd still be a major hypocrite for making the accusation. But let's not make a mess of this thread as we have before.
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Bjord on July 22, 2013, 01:32:44 am
You're just a clueless kid with a chip on his shoulder, Ragni. What's more is that you manage to make my point every time you post. You're like a sitcom character. I don't have to explain anything to you.

This is a game, if you want a medieval simulator either you make one yourself or you piss off to some medieval fair, a LARP event or some other sperglord activity where you can re-enact on your vast knowledge of medieval combat history.
That's all.
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Ragni_Bross on July 22, 2013, 01:44:09 am
You're just a clueless kid with a chip on his shoulder, Ragni. What's more is that you manage to make my point every time you post. You're like a sitcom character. I don't have to explain anything to you.

This is a game, if you want a medieval simulator either you make one yourself or you piss off to some medieval fair, a LARP event or some other sperglord activity where you can re-enact on your vast knowledge of medieval combat history.
That's all.

I find it very amusing how you never explain yourself before you hurl more insults at people. I suppose it's just easier. Games can't strive to be realistic? Then why were all those realistic changes made then? Why bother playing this rather than WoW if realism becomes a curseword and your own ignorance becomes your pride. And why on earth would you mention Larp as a reliable source of information? You're getting dumber by the second. And there's something ironic about being called a kid by someone who looks like a deranged gypsy hunchback who's both smaller and dumber.
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Bjord on July 22, 2013, 01:57:05 am
I would love to explain myself, but you have to understand, some people are just not worth it. Sadly, you're one of them.

What's also sad is how you think I'm insulting you, or in any way trying to hurt your little feelings. Frankly, you're not even worth insulting. I reserve them for people with substance, while you're just a husk of some imagined, pseudo-intellectual medieval history professor.

You do amuse me, because while you have absolutely not a fucking clue or insight as to the decisions made by the developers of cRPG, you prance around waving your "facts", as if they give you any right, whatsoever in your yawn-inspiring posts.

Stop to think for a second, assuming you would ever actually consider your words enough to allow some humility in your arguments (note: your main arguments are whether something is stupid or not, or your idea of realistic or unrealistic) , if this game and this mod has any implication of becoming a simulator.
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Casimir on July 22, 2013, 01:57:37 am
Considering you cant block while kicking, you can chamber kicks and you've already added nudges (which are arguably superior to kicks) then why would you nerf kicks further?
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Macropus on July 22, 2013, 10:03:13 am
Lol Bjord, your posts currently look like that:
Quote
Hey, you're not worth to explain something to you, do you understand? Let me explain it once more: you're not worth explaining something to you. Is that clear? I don't know how to explain that...
And I'm not trying to insult you, you fool, because you don't even deserve this, piece of shit.
.
  :)
Although I agree with you on that kicking shouldn't be nerfed further, it's a nice gameplay feature.
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on July 22, 2013, 02:52:58 pm
Arrogant? Either you've lost your touch or I struck a nerve. In either case there's nothing arrogant about explaining to you that there already have been made several "realistic" fixes, nor is it arrogant to point out why you of all people have nothing to say in a discussion about realism. It may be demeaning but just because you take offense doesn't make it arrogant. And even if it were arrogant you'd still be a major hypocrite for making the accusation. But let's not make a mess of this thread as we have before.
Nothing arrogant about your post, eh?
Oh I forgot, you'd rather have the swords weigh 10 kilos and the plate armour 80, right? I suppose realism can only be fully appreciated by someone who actually cares and knows about historical combat, let alone history in general.
I know far more about history than your average person, and I'm guessing you know next to nothing about historical combat, seeing as you seem to think it'd be fun playing a medieval simulator, realism is nice in a game, as long as it doesn't hurt balance and fun.
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Ragni_Bross on July 22, 2013, 03:33:35 pm
I would love to explain myself, but you have to understand, some people are just not worth it. Sadly, you're one of them.

What's also sad is how you think I'm insulting you, or in any way trying to hurt your little feelings. Frankly, you're not even worth insulting. I reserve them for people with substance, while you're just a husk of some imagined, pseudo-intellectual medieval history professor.

You do amuse me, because while you have absolutely not a fucking clue or insight as to the decisions made by the developers of cRPG, you prance around waving your "facts", as if they give you any right, whatsoever in your yawn-inspiring posts.

Stop to think for a second, assuming you would ever actually consider your words enough to allow some humility in your arguments (note: your main arguments are whether something is stupid or not, or your idea of realistic or unrealistic) , if this game and this mod has any implication of becoming a simulator.

There is something strangely satisfying about being insulted by someone like you. I mean, obviously it means I'm doing something right. Just because I vehemently disagree with the changes doesn't mean that I don't understand them. Many of the suggestions I've proposed are things I've seen done in other mods, some of them very good.

And what exactly does "facts" mean? Go down to your nearest HWC club, grab a longsword, short-glaive, rapier, sabre or sword and buckler and take a few classes. You'd find that the "facts" are facts and that you've been ignorant and arrogant. I never said anything about it having to become a simulator, in fact I'd rather it didn't. What I would like, however, is for the silly fantasy features to be removed or altered.

It's very interesting how you always claim I'm not worth the effort and then go on to write several comments. What you mean is that you can't really elaborate on your claims because they're BS, fair enough. My "facts" are facts, even if you don't like them, and my suggestions are perfectly valid. Many of them have already been implemented in other mods. I do apologise for replying so late but HWC comes first.
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Ragni_Bross on July 22, 2013, 03:39:51 pm
Nothing arrogant about your post, eh?I know far more about history than your average person, and I'm guessing you know next to nothing about historical combat, seeing as you seem to think it'd be fun playing a medieval simulator, realism is nice in a game, as long as it doesn't hurt balance and fun.

I never said that I wasn't insulting Bjord but me stating that I know for a fact that he knows nothing is hardly arrogant. If I claimed to know everything about medieval/renaissance warfare that'd be arrogant, but I never have. I do, however, know enough to find kicking absurd and an immersion-breaker. cRPG has quite a few nice elements but some features just ruin the entire experience, the lol-stab for example. Frankly I don't think you know more than I do, but I can't know because I have no idea who you are. You just seem to think that I want cRPG to become Clang. I don't.

Not only do I think the kick is stupid and silly, now I also think that it is superflous. We have nudges now, so why don't we tweak them until we get them right? This is the closest we've been to having grappling in-game and surely you'd agree that grappling makes a lot more sense than kicking from a realistic perspective. I've paid you the compliment of assuming you do.
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Phew on July 22, 2013, 07:32:29 pm
Currently, landing a kick only requires predicting the angular position of your opponent in the next ~0.5s within +/- ~15 degrees. If you execute the kick during your attack phase, there is pretty much no risk of getting hit if you miss.

1h users are particularly prone to being kick bait, because:
1. we have short reach
2. the animation sweetspots pretty much force us to always strafe right as we circle an opponent (making us predictable).

I'd like to see this change, because there are plenty of good 2h players that don't even bother attacking a shielder until they land a kick, after which they overhead and win. So the only viable strategy against this type of player is to rely on the 1h thrust and right swing (the only 1h attacks with enough reach to outreach the kick). Incidentally, these are the two attacks that are the slowest and most likely to glance, so the 2h user just spams away knowing that he gets a free kill as soon as you glance (which WILL happen with thrusts and right swings).  So you end up stuck choosing between 2 losing tactics (get kicked+die or glance+die).

All mechanics should have a balanced risk/reward proposition. As it stands, kick is too low on the risk for being so high-reward. Current nudge is low-med risk, low-medium reward (with the exception of shield bash, which is high/high when fighting on a wall where a successful bash results in a fall kill). Kick should be the high risk/high reward mechanic; if you land one, you get a free hit, but if you screw up you allow a free hit (knockdown). Seems fair.
Title: Re: [Suggestion]Knockdown for wounded kicker
Post by: Mala on July 22, 2013, 09:20:48 pm
but this would chnage nothing.
with the current kick, if i get hit with a kick but are able to hit them at the same time, then i get stunned but they get no free hit as well.
the main problem still stands, you get stunned while the kick does not even connect.