cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: owens on July 03, 2013, 05:54:39 am

Title: New Mechanics... Why no crouch?
Post by: owens on July 03, 2013, 05:54:39 am
I think this is a mechanic that won't break the game but will enhance it.


Combat mechanics will always cause some short term problems and may not necessarily enhance gameplay in the long run.
Title: Re: New Mechanics... Why no crouch?
Post by: Varadin on July 03, 2013, 06:25:32 am
Agree, i have no idea why devs are ignoring this new mech
Title: Re: New Mechanics... Why no crouch?
Post by: Tydeus on July 03, 2013, 06:38:52 am
Because even though M&B has crouch animations and a crouch walk, they're not very good. I'd have to create a stationary, crouch walk, and likely a crouch attack animation for all or most of the weapon types. That's really a lot of work and it's hard to say it will have any meaningful effects on gameplay, especially when there's no guarantee that I can make the animations look good simply by keyframing. For melee, you can crouch behind objects, but that's about the only use you can get out of it. There aren't even very many maps that you could find a single use for this. For ranged, this only serves as a tool that would better keep you hidden, but it still won't have very many applicable uses.
Title: Re: New Mechanics... Why no crouch?
Post by: Tom Cruise on July 03, 2013, 06:45:29 am
Because even though M&B has crouch animations and a crouch walk, they're not very good. I'd have to create a stationary, crouch walk, and likely a crouch attack animation for all or most of the weapon types. That's really a lot of work and it's hard to say it will have any meaningful effects on gameplay, especially when there's no guarantee that I can make the animations look good simply by keyframing. For melee, you can crouch behind objects, but that's about the only use you can get out of it. There aren't even very many maps that you could find a single use for this. For ranged, this only serves as a tool that would better keep you hidden, but it still won't have very many applicable uses.

So make it to where you can just move around with it. Or at least just to crouch stationary. That way you dont have to make attack animations for it. Would still be great for taking cover and being able to cover some ground while in cover.
Title: Re: New Mechanics... Why no crouch?
Post by: Tydeus on July 03, 2013, 06:50:26 am
So make it to where you can just move around with it. Or at least just to crouch stationary. That way you dont have to make attack animations for it. Would still be great for taking cover and being able to cover some ground while in cover.
Sure, when our map rotation consists of scenes that can make use of such a mechanic. Right now, there just aren't enough. Another reason this is being somewhat ignored, is that there is already a workaround for this. Just hold an attack and stare at the ground so your character bends over. It looks absolutely retarded, but the usage and effects on gameplay are nearly the same.
Title: Re: New Mechanics... Why no crouch?
Post by: Tom Cruise on July 03, 2013, 08:38:42 am
Sure, when our map rotation consists of scenes that can make use of such a mechanic. Right now, there just aren't enough. Another reason this is being somewhat ignored, is that there is already a workaround for this. Just hold an attack and stare at the ground so your character bends over. It looks absolutely retarded, but the usage and effects on gameplay are nearly the same.

Holding your attacking and looking down look retarded....the crouch animations Ive seen in other mods do not.

There is plenty of "waist-high cover" in the maps. Low walls, Barrels/boxes, wagons, and other small scenery objects or structures. Like I said I dont need to attack or do anything crazy with it. Hell you could even kneel like in NW and just be stationary. What I dont want is to be by some small wall or other objects I noted and have a bunch of ranged in front of me and just except my fate and take it like a man either yolo charging in there or attempting run away and getting donkey punched by an arrow/bolt/throwing spear/someotherformofrnageidontcareabout. I should be able to utilize the cover placed in front of me. As much as I dont want to say it, not all maps are open plains, cav fest.
Title: Re: New Mechanics... Why no crouch?
Post by: Artyem on July 03, 2013, 08:49:12 am
Vikingr has a crouch and crouch walk animation that's actually pretty good in my opinion.  I don't see why you wouldn't want to add something fundamental like crouching but would want to add something relatively pointless like dodge.  I see plenty of opportunities on most maps to crouch, and many times do I find myself wishing I could.

Why not make a crouching poll too, since you've already done a dodging poll.
Title: Re: New Mechanics... Why no crouch?
Post by: owens on July 03, 2013, 02:03:36 pm
In many mods the crouch when combined with a polearm braces it.


This is a good feature as the shorter smaller pikeman can be protected with shields. They don't have to be ever vigilant for cav and it looks really cool.

Saying it won't have a significant impact is a bit premature and indicates that you possibly don't play many other mods.
Title: Re: New Mechanics... Why no crouch?
Post by: Varadin on July 03, 2013, 02:29:08 pm
I don't see what is so hard abotu adding it in the game , i saw it in many many other mods...but i might be mistaken..
Title: Re: New Mechanics... Why no crouch?
Post by: Vibe on July 03, 2013, 03:08:41 pm
Don't forget the crouch jump

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Title: Re: New Mechanics... Why no crouch?
Post by: Butan on July 03, 2013, 03:20:20 pm
Persistent world, Napoleonic Wars, VikingR does it and they are all pretty much balanced and looks good enough.

Crouching would give : cover advantages, less hit chances when on the open, give more sneaky possibilities and also some kind of "dodges" (if you ever wanted to make it usable in fights).
Title: Re: New Mechanics... Why no crouch?
Post by: Radament on July 03, 2013, 03:40:40 pm
Don't forget the crouch jump
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yes but we need pets too !
Title: Re: New Mechanics... Why no crouch?
Post by: Phew on July 03, 2013, 07:23:52 pm
Another reason this is being somewhat ignored, is that there is already a workaround for this. Just hold an attack and stare at the ground so your character bends over. It looks absolutely retarded, but the usage and effects on gameplay are nearly the same.

Pretty much only 2h has this capability. 1h, pole, and all ranged have upright posture during holds.
Title: Re: New Mechanics... Why no crouch?
Post by: Angantyr on July 03, 2013, 07:50:29 pm
Always missed crouch in cRPG. It works well for atmosphere and players find many uses for it in other mods, so why not here indeed. Any mods that have this see it used extensively.
Title: Re: New Mechanics... Why no crouch?
Post by: Perverz on July 03, 2013, 07:57:30 pm
Persistent world, Napoleonic Wars, VikingR does it and they are all pretty much balanced and looks good enough.

Crouching would give : cover advantages, less hit chances when on the open, give more sneaky possibilities and also some kind of "dodges" (if you ever wanted to make it usable in fights).

you have it on wfas 2....and its not bad at all.....
Title: Re: New Mechanics... Why no crouch?
Post by: BlueKnight on July 03, 2013, 08:08:50 pm
When will you learn... It's called T-bagging, not crouching.
Title: Re: New Mechanics... Why no crouch?
Post by: Jarold on July 03, 2013, 09:21:22 pm
Honestly, adding in dodging but saying crouch is too hard? I think crouching will be way more useful, and less annoying, then dodge could ever be. I see dodge only working for trying to spaz out an archers aim.
Title: Re: New Mechanics... Why no crouch?
Post by: Tydeus on July 03, 2013, 10:54:17 pm
Honestly, adding in dodging but saying crouch is too hard? I think crouching will be way more useful, and less annoying, then dodge could ever be. I see dodge only working for trying to spaz out an archers aim.
It's a lot of work considering I'm not convinced that it adds depth to combat. I could see changing the way pikes/long polearms work by requiring a player to brace the pole against the ground from a crouch position, but I see that as being much different from simply crouching or "sneaking".
Title: Re: New Mechanics... Why no crouch?
Post by: karasu on July 03, 2013, 11:57:57 pm
Give prone while at it, so we can avoid cav lances and incite even more sniper camping.  :D
Title: Re: New Mechanics... Why no crouch?
Post by: Jarold on July 04, 2013, 02:00:55 am
Why not just make it simple for yourselves and the players then. Find the best crouching animation in the many mods that have them. Then just make the person only able to stand still in crouch mode. They can't walk, run, stab, shoot, or throw. They can still block but not much else, it mainly just to take cover, nothing else.
Title: Re: New Mechanics... Why no crouch?
Post by: owens on July 04, 2013, 05:21:37 pm
Am i correct in saying Nord invasion and PW are open source these days?


So many good mechanics and cool intricacies. For instance falling of horses without them dying, picking up weapons beyond your own strength requirement at a severe penalty.
Title: Re: New Mechanics... Why no crouch?
Post by: Torben on July 04, 2013, 05:37:25 pm
its important to implement the dodge animation so the devs can  gain experience with it for M:BG imo.  but adding a stationary crouch,  no attack or block or whatever (maybe bows shorter then longbow and rus can draw) is so very needed.

shieldwalls would greatly increase their protection for shieldless behind,  archers can dodge faster behind walls of castles just being two that would greatly improve the feel on the field.