cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: DUKE DICKBUTT on June 29, 2013, 05:33:24 pm

Title: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: DUKE DICKBUTT on June 29, 2013, 05:33:24 pm
Here are my impresisons at first glance

Winners:
"Bow" has been juggled from lowest bow to something mid tier.  Roughly the same as a Rus Bow now at half the price.
Bows and arrows have been modified so that unloomed Bows are more viable, damage wise.  Loomed bows no longer enjoy a damage increased, but have a higher overall missile speed than before.  Loomed bows seem to do the same damage as before with these adjustments, but arrow stacks are bigger now, loomed arrows only get more ammo.
Crossbows and bolts have been modified so unloomed crossbows are more viable.  Loomed crossbows gain smaller damage increases, but bolts have increased stack size.
Many two directional pole arms buffed.  Swing damages increased by various amounts.  Awlpike, Long Awlpike, Military Fork, Battle Fork, Bamboo spear.  Partisan also gains bonus against shields, more damage on swing but loses .2 weight.
Spathovaklion, speed increased by 3, but price also 2000 more expensive.
Italian Falchion now 0 slot.  Big winner, especially with the nerf to previous 0 slot swords.
Spathion stab buffed 1 and Wakazashi swing buffed 1.  Still probably useless weapons.
Most 1H axes got buffed by 1 damage.
All ninja stars are now 0 slot, throwing daggers as well.
Military Sickle 2h mode buffed by 2 damage.

Losers:
Most 0 slot sword got nerfed by 1 swing, 1 stab or both.  Broad Short Sword also loses speed.
Side Sword.  Speed dropped 2.  Was probably OP before.
Steel Pick nerfed again, speed dropped 1.
Swiss Halberd weight dropped .5 to lower weapon stun.
Throwing knives now take 1 Throwing, but are now more accurate and 0 slot.

Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: [ptx] on June 29, 2013, 05:34:46 pm
You forgot Panos.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: Tanken on June 29, 2013, 05:46:54 pm
Is this a complete list? Hopefully my Light Lance and Spear got a buff. Or the long spear and pike, just to piss people off.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: DUKE DICKBUTT on June 29, 2013, 05:50:44 pm
Is this a complete list? Hopefully my Light Lance and Spear got a buff. Or the long spear and pike, just to piss people off.

No, none of those items were effected at all this patch.  Well, besides the fact that you can nudge now.

The complete list is in announcements and was posted by chadz.  However, it can be very boring to read through, especially since not all changes were made linear across Heirloom levels like they usually are.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: Strudog on June 29, 2013, 05:51:55 pm
Here are my impresisons at first glance


Many two directional pole arms buffed.  Swing damages increased by various amounts.  Awlpike, Long Awlpike, Military Fork, Battle Fork, Bamboo spear.


All these weapon were perfectly balanced and they buff them.

Wow just wow
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: Swaggart on June 29, 2013, 05:54:43 pm
I wouldn't list the Swiss in the nerf category. Now that it's lighter you can spin with it more.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: Tanken on June 29, 2013, 05:55:36 pm
Yeah, I dunno man. Ranged was kicking my ass prior patch, now it looks like it's going to be even more of a problem. Especially with everyone respeccing or making alts to see just how good ranged is now.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: Phantasmal on June 29, 2013, 06:04:04 pm
0 slot Italian Falchion.....


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Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: Tovi on June 29, 2013, 06:04:12 pm
Hopefully I'd just traded my sidesword before the patch...
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: Canary on June 29, 2013, 06:16:16 pm
The halberd change is arguably for the better; at worst it somewhat balances out. Weapon stun is one thing, but being able to turn better while swinging improves overall functionality.
I wouldn't list the Swiss in the nerf category. Now that it's lighter you can spin with it more.

yeah that.



Polearm left swings got their sweetspot improved to the point of actually being useful. All polearms with sideswing capability will be far better off now.

Let's not forget the long maul, either. I mean, psh, 6 speed, whatev. 8 more thrust damage!? Holy smokes!
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: StonedSteel on June 29, 2013, 06:19:50 pm
Spathovaklion, speed increased by 3, but price also 2000 more expensive.

^ clearly best mace now, was a nominee for best 1h mace before, with its 2 weight and never-fail-to-knockdown ability

now u can nudge, kick, knockdown, kick, knockdown.....with a 99 speed weapon....

OP much?
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: DUKE DICKBUTT on June 29, 2013, 06:49:06 pm
Spathovaklion, speed increased by 3, but price also 2000 more expensive.

^ clearly best mace now, was a nominee for best 1h mace before, with its 2 weight and never-fail-to-knockdown ability

now u can nudge, kick, knockdown, kick, knockdown.....with a 99 speed weapon....

OP much?

I've heard you can't kick immediately after a nudge first, but I don't have the time to test it right now.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: San on June 29, 2013, 06:51:45 pm
1h internal balance really got screwed up.

No reason to take any blunt weapon other than a spathovaklion. The speed you see on your screen is relative to the weapon length and weapon speed. 75 length and 99 speed just makes it so much better than the alternatives, and fully loomed, out-damages all of the cut weapons with around the same speed.

Iron war axe and broad 1handed battle axe with their secondary modes seem to outpace the picks rather easily, due to the increase in length and utility and barely any difference in damage.

0 slot 1hs seem to be far outpaced by the 95+ length weapons now. Shorter 1hs seem to be dominated by the grosse messer and the like. 85-92 length 1hs seem to be in a good spot and still competes with the longer ones, other than the broad 1h short sword, which should have gotten a tiny damage increase for the speed decrease.

Expect to see a ton of spathovaklions soon, and much less 1h diversity.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: Zanze on June 29, 2013, 06:52:52 pm
Is this a complete list? Hopefully my Light Lance and Spear got a buff. Or the long spear and pike, just to piss people off.

Buff our light lance? You are funny. The last nerf to it is still hurting.

On the other hand now I can nudge. People in battle thought I was scary to facehug because I would kick you, now I can nudge too.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: darmaster on June 29, 2013, 06:59:37 pm
1h internal balance really got screwed up.

No reason to take any blunt weapon other than a spathovaklion. The speed you see on your screen is relative to the weapon length and weapon speed. 75 length and 99 speed just makes it so much better than the alternatives, and fully loomed, out-damages all of the cut weapons with around the same speed.

Iron war axe and broad 1handed battle axe with their secondary modes seem to outpace the picks rather easily, due to the increase in length and utility and barely any difference in damage.

0 slot 1hs seem to be far outpaced by the 95+ length weapons now. Shorter 1hs seem to be dominated by the grosse messer and the like. 85-92 length 1hs seem to be in a good spot and still competes with the longer ones, other than the broad 1h short sword, which should have gotten a tiny damage increase for the speed decrease.

Expect to see a ton of spathovaklions soon, and much less 1h diversity.
agree; spathovavava buff is just ridiculous. also i would change the blunt formula.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: Canuck on June 29, 2013, 07:14:29 pm
Why nerf the broad short sword so much? I don't think it was that much of a problem.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: Tydeus on June 29, 2013, 07:33:01 pm
Losers:
Most 0 slot sword got nerfed by 1 swing, 1 stab or both.  Broad Short Sword also loses speed. (See post)
Side Sword.  Speed dropped 2.  Was probably OP before.
Steel Pick nerfed again, speed dropped 1.
Swiss Halberd weight dropped .5 to lower weapon stun. (This is actually a major buff to effectiveness)
Throwing knives now take 1 Throwing, but are now more accurate and 0 slot. (They actually have the same effective accuracy, regardless of the number changing)

Falchion:
  Speed 96 > 97
Short Arming Sword:
  Swing 29c > 28c
  Thrust 29p > 28p
Wakizashi:
  Swing 28c > 29c
Nordic Short War Sword:
  Swing 31c > 30c
Broad Short Sword:
  Thrust 28p > 27p
  Speed 102 > 100
Italian Falchion:
  Slots 1 > 0
Side Sword:
  Speed 101 > 99
Spathion:
  Thrust 25 > 26(2 thrust for 1 speed compared to the KAS with this)

That's the 1h sword changes, which indicate that only a few(the most used 0 slot weapons which were honestly, poorly balanced with the rest of the 1h pool) weapons were nerfed. The important thing to note about the BSS, is that the swing damage stayed unchanged.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: Lt_Anders on June 29, 2013, 09:08:48 pm
Italian Falchion OP as shit. 34C with no slots and a thrust....Like, what?

Not to mention it's cheap as shit now.

weapon length: 70
weight: 1
difficulty: 11
speed rating: 101
weapon length: 70
thrust damage: 21 pierce
swing damage: 34 cut
slots: 0
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: San on June 29, 2013, 10:59:42 pm
Maybe it's 29-32 cut that's UP? With 6PS and 33 cut, it takes 3-5 hits to kill anyone at full health, even with 163 wpf. Most of the axes outdamage and outreach that with very little speed difference. It's also completely beaten by grosse messer. 101 speed seems like a lot, but with 70 length, you're still liable to get spammed anyways, since unlike blunt/pierce weapons, hitting at bad points with a short cut weapon won't cause much damage.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: Corsair831 on June 29, 2013, 11:14:15 pm
i lost big time, my side sword got nerfed by 2 speed (which makes it utterly worthless) lol
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: Penguin on June 29, 2013, 11:30:17 pm
Now I can stop kicking myself for accidentally buying about 1000 spathovoklions in strat on accident before the price change!
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: Grumbs on June 30, 2013, 12:45:28 am
About the Halbard -.05 weight thing "This is actually a major buff to effectiveness" comment, I could see this was intended as a buff to turn speed, but it was just comical to me that we are chucked a scrap like that after the other things tweaked in the patch. Halberd has been trash tier for a long time now, not sure a small weight change will alter that.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on June 30, 2013, 01:08:34 am
0 slot Italian Falchion.....


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Last week there was an offer up for 150k + italian falcion for a short broad sword... wish I'd taken that now!!!!!!!
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on June 30, 2013, 01:13:16 am
Falchion:
  Speed 96 > 97
Short Arming Sword:
  Swing 29c > 28c
  Thrust 29p > 28p
Wakizashi:
  Swing 28c > 29c
Nordic Short War Sword:
  Swing 31c > 30c
Broad Short Sword:
  Thrust 28p > 27p
  Speed 102 > 100
Italian Falchion:
  Slots 1 > 0
Side Sword:
  Speed 101 > 99
Spathion:
  Thrust 25 > 26(2 thrust for 1 speed compared to the KAS with this)

That's the 1h sword changes, which indicate that only a few(the most used 0 slot weapons which were honestly, poorly balanced with the rest of the 1h pool) weapons were nerfed. The important thing to note about the BSS, is that the swing damage stayed unchanged.

The BSS change was minor and I'd say for the best. It held a stupid position as the "king" of side arms. All I can say is I wish I had a potato peeler!
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: Gristle on June 30, 2013, 01:17:41 am
Masterwork Bolts lost this patch, as the price was doubled with nothing gained.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: Oggrinsky on June 30, 2013, 01:51:12 am
You missed this beauty:

Quote
Urist: - added HA skill malus to xbow and removed it from throwing

Thanks to whomever was involved in making this happen! My prayers have been answered!
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on June 30, 2013, 02:34:07 am
|
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 2563                           | 5843                          |
| thrust damage                                      | 6 pierce                       | 8 pierce                      |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|

I see what you did there...

Is this a play to make the crossbow more viable by making an arb rig insanely expensive?
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: Apsod on June 30, 2013, 02:42:47 am
Everyone is whining over the Spathovaklion, but in my eyes it is just a well balanced 1h mace now.

If you compare it to the Warhammer it has 2 extra speed and 10 extra length, but does 4 less blunt and does not have a thrust option, it is also lighter which gives it less knockdown chance.

Before, the Spathovaklion was bad and now it is a goodish weapon, but I`m still sticking to my Warhammer.


Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: FrugFrug on June 30, 2013, 05:14:18 am
i lost big time, my side sword got nerfed by 2 speed (which makes it udderly worthless) lol

Hue.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: HarryCrumb on June 30, 2013, 05:20:15 am
Everyone is whining over the Spathovaklion, but in my eyes it is just a well balanced 1h mace now.

If you compare it to the Warhammer it has 2 extra speed and 10 extra length, but does 4 less blunt and does not have a thrust option, it is also lighter which gives it less knockdown chance.

Before, the Spathovaklion was bad and now it is a goodish weapon, but I`m still sticking to my Warhammer.

people thrust with a warhammer? wtf?

bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
Falchion:
  Speed 96 > 97
Short Arming Sword:
  Swing 29c > 28c
  Thrust 29p > 28p
Wakizashi:
  Swing 28c > 29c
Nordic Short War Sword:
  Swing 31c > 30c
Broad Short Sword:
  Thrust 28p > 27p
  Speed 102 > 100
Italian Falchion:
  Slots 1 > 0
Side Sword:
  Speed 101 > 99
Spathion:
  Thrust 25 > 26(2 thrust for 1 speed compared to the KAS with this)

That's the 1h sword changes, which indicate that only a few(the most used 0 slot weapons which were honestly, poorly balanced with the rest of the 1h pool) weapons were nerfed. The important thing to note about the BSS, is that the swing damage stayed unchanged.

Why use any of those 0 slots over the Italian Falchion? The BSS and Side Sword are useless now
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: Apsod on June 30, 2013, 06:36:32 am
Indeed Harry.

At first when I started using the Warhammer I did not like the fact that it could thrust, because sometimes I did it by mistake. Though after using the weapon a lot I found out that the thrust of the Warhammer is actually quite useful, because no one expects anyone with a club to do a thrust attack. This often lets me get a free hit with the thrust. The damage is pretty shit, but a free 20p hit is helpful.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: Asheram on June 30, 2013, 07:26:51 am
people thrust with a warhammer? wtf?

bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
Why use any of those 0 slots over the Italian Falchion? The BSS and Side Sword are useless now
WHY? Because I wasted 3 generations looming a bss for them only to make it mediocre now and not give back my 3 looms to spend on another item they buffed and will probably wait til people spend 3 generations to waste points on it til they decide to nerf it as well.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on June 30, 2013, 08:56:48 am
I've wanted a broad short sword since before the buff and I still want one. The model is really nice.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: TheAppleSauceMan on June 30, 2013, 10:51:41 am
Well, time to loom a Spatho.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: Ganner on June 30, 2013, 11:23:23 am
I find it offensive that rocks were not included in the 0 slot throwing weapons change.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: partyboy on June 30, 2013, 07:26:58 pm
Masterwork Bolts lost this patch, as the price was doubled with nothing gained.

Did they just raise the base damage and nerf the loom bonus?
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: Kafein on June 30, 2013, 08:02:36 pm
Seriously even though I was personally killed often by them, 0 slot 1h were exactly where they should be, it's mostly some of the weak 1 slot 1h that needed some tweaks. Also the pasta cutter shouldn't be a 0 slot weapon.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: DUKE DICKBUTT on June 30, 2013, 08:09:32 pm
Did they just raise the base damage and nerf the loom bonus?

"Bolts" never got a bonus damage from heirlooming.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: DUKE DICKBUTT on June 30, 2013, 08:10:07 pm
WHY? Because I wasted 3 generations looming a bss for them only to make it mediocre now and not give back my 3 looms to spend on another item they buffed and will probably wait til people spend 3 generations to waste points on it til they decide to nerf it as well.

Every minute you play this game is time wasted.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on June 30, 2013, 09:36:55 pm
0.3.0.2 update: Great Lance is now #1 loser this patch!
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: Tydeus on June 30, 2013, 09:51:35 pm
0.3.0.2 update: Great Lance is now #1 loser this patch!
Couch lance modifier changed to increase couch damage from all couches. It's a nerf, but not some 20% damage nerf like what it seems.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: Phantasmal on June 30, 2013, 10:07:43 pm
"Bolts" never got a bonus damage from heirlooming.

Bolts did get a damage bonus from being loomed. It went from +1 --> +3 --> +5 just like steel bolts.

which means that there used to be a 6 damage difference between bolts and steel bolts that has now increased to an 8 damage difference, making MW bolts more useless then before.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on June 30, 2013, 10:19:15 pm
Bolts did get a damage bonus from being loomed. It went from +1 --> +3 --> +5 just like steel bolts.

which means that there used to be a 6 damage difference between bolts and steel bolts that has now increased to an 8 damage difference, making MW bolts more useless then before.

Steel bolts also cost more now. But that will change strat army equipment more than individual players.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: Casimir on June 30, 2013, 10:55:20 pm
I see no legitimate argument for buffing the awlpike, a weapon that was already very powerful, overall though the changes seem reasonable.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: SirCymro_Crusader on June 30, 2013, 10:58:29 pm
.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: Kafein on June 30, 2013, 11:05:55 pm
I see no legitimate argument for buffing the awlpike, a weapon that was already very powerful, overall though the changes seem reasonable.

This particular change makes me doubt the balancers played siege a lot. Awlpike stabs could already be spammed really fast due to the way they connect.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: TheAppleSauceMan on July 01, 2013, 12:35:25 am
I just think it's lame that they nerfed most of the 0 slot 1hs right after they buffed them last patch. They just like to tease us 1hs I guess. And it's not even like they were OP, they were just becoming more prevalent on the battlefield. And if that's a determining factor in what gets nerfed, I think the longsword is long overdue for a nerf.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: Malaclypse on July 01, 2013, 12:39:14 am
I just think it's lame that they nerfed most of the 0 slot 1hs right after they buffed them last patch. They just like to tease us 1hs I guess. And it's not even like they were OP, they were just becoming more prevalent on the battlefield. And if that's a determining factor in what gets nerfed, I think the longsword is long overdue for a nerf.  :rolleyes:

They're still up from where they were before the last buffs I believe, they just got a bit overbuffed initially and had to be toned down a wee bit to achieve better internal balance among 1hs.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: Gurnisson on July 01, 2013, 01:02:35 am
I see no legitimate argument for buffing the awlpike, a weapon that was already very powerful, overall though the changes seem reasonable.

How much is 3 blunt on the overhead gonna affect you? This is a serious question, I don't use the weapon myself and a 3 blunt change to the overhead really doesn't seem to change that much. If they had buffed the thrust, then I would've understood it. :wink:
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: DUKE DICKBUTT on July 01, 2013, 01:14:35 am
3.02 buffed the Horn Bow yet again, giving very little reason to use anything else.  The Long Bow still has its place in Strat, of course.

How much is 3 blunt on the overhead gonna affect you? This is a serious question, I don't use the weapon myself and a 3 blunt change to the overhead really doesn't seem to change that much. If they had buffed the thrust, then I would've understood it. :wink:

Overheads hit the head a lot and blunt isn't effected much by armor, so 3 blunt really is kind of a big deal.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: Casimir on July 01, 2013, 01:25:36 am
Yeah it doesn't affect much but it is still an unnecessary strengthening to a weapon that is already better than comparable ones.  People cry when 1 speed or 1 cut is removed from a weapon so adding 3 blunt is worth questioning.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: Tojo on July 01, 2013, 01:40:44 am
So when I use the new blocking nudge feature with my bec de corbin the enemy is pushed back and slightly stunned when I hit them. However, the stun from the nudge does not make it any harder for them to block my next attack. Does the nudge stun power come from STR or is it the same for everyone?

Basically i can only use nudges as a way to throw off an opponents footwork, or maybe knock them off a ledge. Even if you knock them off ledge the game counts it as a suicide.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: Jarold on July 01, 2013, 01:45:25 am
You're not supposed to be able to kill them after nudging em. It is merely for breathing room or to knock them off an edge.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.1 Winners and Losers
Post by: Lt_Anders on July 01, 2013, 01:54:27 am
Concerning Couch Lances and Regular lances.

I did a quick test. Against ~60 Body Armor and 20 Strength, 6 Ironflesh(roughly, we used two different people, but it comes out to about right here)

A Great Lance(47p) would 1 hit anyone from a Champ Rouncey and Up, while it wouldn't from a plated charger. So speed bonus matters, and unfortunately, for a Great Lance or a Jousting lance, Speed is very important over a regular thrusting lance. This was a general test for effectiveness, and was the same for a head hit or body hit.

Then I used a champ rouncey and a lance(28p). Against the same heavy armor and Ironflesh of the champ rouncy GL test. The Lance did ~80% if hit in the head against heavy armor, and ~70% for a body shot. Then he switched to Heraldic Mail w/Tabard and 2 ironflesh(A medium armor getup), and with the same Lance and Champ rouncy, it was a 1 hit for a head shot and 80% for a body shot.

Recommend relook at balance between thrusting lances and couch only lances.
Lower Overall couch down slightly(to like .4 instead of .45) and buff couch only damage.
Right now, the lance can do, more or less the same as a great lance, but retains the ability to thrust.