cRPG

Strategus => Strategus General Discussion => Topic started by: YnScN on June 23, 2013, 03:58:22 pm

Title: 2handers Role In Strat Battles
Post by: YnScN on June 23, 2013, 03:58:22 pm
Hello guys,

I've respecced to 2hand 2-3 weeks ago and i keep struggling in strategus battles. I'm going to describe my problems with positioning and i want to discuss pros/cons of being a 2hander, and how can i improve my game.

First of all, in strat battles i noticed that armies are always formed in a similar scheme. Shielders are on the front to absorb random damage and pikers are right behind them to stab enemies. We can visualize it with this.

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At first, I have tried atacking in front of them, but i failed because before my swings reached the enemy their pikes could hit me and even if i moved forward while i was making a down-block, their shielders just could hit me with an upper swing. I died most of the time without getting a kill.

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Later i decided to atack them from their behind just when two armies were so close to each other. I have waited until i saw a breaking point, then i moved their behind so i could backstab them. With this tactic i made more kills per death, but it was risky since i got backstabbed a lot.

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Eventually i found another useful tactic for me. I wasnt participating the main fight but i was trying to pull some enemies to kill with the help of my teammates. We usually stayed together on the flanks and tried to pull enemies from the main fight. Once we pulled them we killed them easily because we outnumbered them. But this tactic didnt work on some battles because enemy had a dominant cavalry power.

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In conclusion, i wanted to describe what kind of difficulties i encountered when i was trying to fight as a 2hand in strat battles and which tactics were useful for me. I believe that i've improved but i want your opinions and thoughts on how i can improve my game.

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Title: Re: 2handers Role In Strat Battles
Post by: Erzengel on June 23, 2013, 04:07:20 pm
Quote from: YnScN on June 23, 2013, 03:58:22 pm
No teamhit jokes are allowed  8-)

Then I am not interested in the topic at all.  :o
Title: Re: 2handers Role In Strat Battles
Post by: karasu on June 23, 2013, 04:08:47 pm
I think Cooties can give you a very good insight on the role of a 2h in strat battles.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: 2handers Role In Strat Battles
Post by: Tzar on June 23, 2013, 04:11:15 pm
Get a great maul and smash the turtles.

Ohh wait nwm... forgot it was nerfed to peices...  :lol:
Title: Re: 2handers Role In Strat Battles
Post by: Grumbs on June 23, 2013, 04:12:03 pm
I see a lot of Great Mauls crushing through people on strat, you could try one of those. I don't think fights are that organised that you will always meet pikers and shielders btw, and you can try to fight at the sides rather than at the front. Try to pick a weapon based on what your team needs. Sometimes you might want an axe to break shields, sometimes maul, sometimes a dueling weapon
Title: Re: 2handers Role In Strat Battles
Post by: Miwiw on June 23, 2013, 04:13:26 pm
2h are either meant to fight on the flanks, help out pikemen in danger or if you are a real hero you can jump into the direct fight if you are able to block enough hits by both 1h and pikemen.

Strat battles are usually fought by 1h/poles/ranged and cav though. There shouldn't be that many 2h heroes.
Title: Re: 2handers Role In Strat Battles
Post by: Latvian on June 23, 2013, 04:30:30 pm
get riding skill and ride horse, thats what i do, but when on foot try to team up with some good piker and jsut downblock untill you can get clear hit. Dont go straight to enemy but use S key hero tactics (you are 2hander after all ).Always stay with your team, listen to comands so you dont find yourself alone vs 25000 enemies while your team is retreating/ regrouping. Thats about all you should know about being 2h hero.
Title: Re: 2handers Role In Strat Battles
Post by: _GTX_ on June 23, 2013, 04:45:32 pm
well 2h is not that usefull in strat, as they said... its mostly a fight between other roles. Cooties mostly just charge down alone and try to get objectives.
Title: Re: 2handers Role In Strat Battles
Post by: Falka on June 23, 2013, 05:55:56 pm
Quote from: _GTX_ on June 23, 2013, 04:45:32 pm
Cooties mostly just charge down alone

Cooties had amazing ability to jump into biggest clusterfuck, slash through dozens of enemies and survive  :wink: Shame he doesn't play anymore, he was one of a few players who I loved to watch  :oops:
Title: Re: 2handers Role In Strat Battles
Post by: Smoothrich on June 23, 2013, 06:20:01 pm
Try to isolate pikemen and facehug spam them so they can't do 360 jump bullshit. Try to approach from the flanks (while avoiding cav) and start carving into people. Always try to get around or behind the blob, or else try to go directly into the middle of the blob and surround yourself by enemies to cause chaos. Pike support will end up piking their teammates if you are fast enough.

Be first up ladders in sieges with mauls. Killsteal as much as possible.

I play much better either bum rushing into the mass of enemies and fighting from there, or staking out an open piece of ground on a flank and killing all cav/other 2hand heroes/stray enemies that step up to it. No one left to brawl with, odds are the lines are clashing and you can flank everyone from behind and kill some tunnel visioned pikers or shielders.

Don't get sucked into the line battle game, its garbage for 2handers. Easily the worst class for it.
Title: Re: 2handers Role In Strat Battles
Post by: Imperious on June 23, 2013, 06:28:16 pm
2h is too easy to take some kill get a morning star and just swing swing swing and u got 3 kill to 1 dead. also if u know get block this kills will be 5 to 1 dead.

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Title: Re: 2handers Role In Strat Battles
Post by: Ikarus on June 23, 2013, 06:33:04 pm
As long as I´m not cav, I often run with the shielder/piker group and wait until some crazy dude manages to get through our shieldwall behind our pikers: then it´s my turn  :wink:
I also watch the pikers group back during battles so their butts don´t get hurt.

But that´s all just some supportive stuff, 2h don´t really have a role in strat (unless they can wear a great maul, then they´re the crushthrough-squad)
Title: Re: 2handers Role In Strat Battles
Post by: Rebelyell on June 23, 2013, 06:58:37 pm
spawnrape, 2h is best for that
Title: Re: 2handers Role In Strat Battles
Post by: Malaclypse on June 23, 2013, 07:04:03 pm
Keep your head down, swing left and right.
Title: Re: 2handers Role In Strat Battles
Post by: Paul on June 23, 2013, 07:12:48 pm
Ok, it's time to buff 2h. The hardship they have to go through is unacceptable.
Title: Re: 2handers Role In Strat Battles
Post by: Miwiw on June 23, 2013, 07:14:18 pm
At the same time you could buff nudges. They are obviously not causing any kills and are pretty useless in fights.
Title: Re: 2handers Role In Strat Battles
Post by: Erzengel on June 23, 2013, 07:33:14 pm
Quote from: Miwiw99 on June 23, 2013, 07:14:18 pm
At the same time you could buff nudges. They are obviously not causing any kills and are pretty useless in fights.

Especially the combination of block + nudge + kick on an agi character seems extremly weak. Definitely needs a buff.  :)
Title: Re: 2handers Role In Strat Battles
Post by: Sandersson Jankins on June 23, 2013, 07:33:31 pm
Your best bets are to team up with a competent pikeman (this works with any class, protecting your long pokesticks is really important in strat), or to hover around the periphery of the main formation and dive into the enemy flanks, focusing on enemy pikemen and whoever else you can cut through. You've got to wait until both lines are engaged before doing this, though.
Title: Re: 2handers Role In Strat Battles
Post by: Leshma on June 23, 2013, 07:46:31 pm
Greatswords are all about backpedling spam and lolstab. But in situations where backpedling makes no sense, Morningstar is the best 2H weapon just like Lacoste said. You need to get close to your enemy but when you're in range they are in trouble. Morningstar is harder to block than swords, it's also a lot easier to chamber with Morningstar than with faster swords. It also breaks shields. Not to mention obvious advantage, it deals omgwtf damage.
Title: Re: 2handers Role In Strat Battles
Post by: Tojo on June 23, 2013, 08:42:10 pm
As a 2h in strat battles I liked to focus on more team support roles. Not having the protection of a shield or the range of a long spear kinda puts you on the int the middle of a clusterfuck. So I did what some people have already suggested and stayed at the back of the friendly shieldwall and maul/Mstar any enemy who broke through the lines. Doing this really helps your team in two ways... 1st of all killing the enemies who break through shield wall saves allies lives and HP. 2nd is that staying behind the friendly shield wall saves your teams tickets because you don't have to be a useless casualty. Depending on the situation and battle commanders orders this is what I found to be the best strategy for battle.

For siege 2h is a bit more difficult than a battle. Attacking as 2h is a huge pain because you are most vulnerable when climbing ladders. The best thing to do is just grab a greatmaul and hope you are one of the lucky ones to break through onto the walls. However, once your allies have established a foothold using a maul or mstar to kill enemies on the walls is much easier.
Defending a siege as 2h is simple grab a big maul and overhead to your hearts content...
Title: Re: 2handers Role In Strat Battles
Post by: Smoothrich on June 23, 2013, 08:57:28 pm
If you are playing 2hand as a support class, you are playing this game completely wrong.
Title: Re: 2handers Role In Strat Battles
Post by: Smoothrich on June 23, 2013, 09:50:23 pm
Quote from: Paul on June 23, 2013, 07:12:48 pm
Ok, it's time to buff 2h. The hardship they have to go through is unacceptable.

Have you ever even played strat as a 2hander?  Very powerful in courtyards or field battles, often garbage in other environments. I've been using one hand no shield at 0 wpf in close quarters instead because you overbuffed it.
Title: Re: 2handers Role In Strat Battles
Post by: Macropus on June 24, 2013, 12:04:30 am
(click to show/hide)
So many penis pics...
Title: Re: 2handers Role In Strat Battles
Post by: Tojo on June 24, 2013, 12:53:57 am
Quote from: Smoothrich on June 23, 2013, 08:57:28 pm
If you are playing 2hand as a support class, you are playing this game completely wrong.

you obviously didnt read the whole thing smooth...
Title: Re: 2handers Role In Strat Battles
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on June 24, 2013, 10:47:15 am
+1 for your insightful images. It helps others visualize your problem.

If there are tight line formations, 2H swords are not of much use. 1H/shield and polearm users are much better equipped to fight in close cluster and line battles. However, mauls are absolutely magical against enemy shielders. You will break so many blocks and knock down so many fighters. Even if you don't land the killing blow, you are giving a huge advantage to your team.

If the fights are a little more spread out (in field battles, there are often many small skirmishes outside the main shieldwall line) then you can fight similarly to the way 2H do in the battle server. 2H cav can be very effective in open field maps as well. 5 riding will sit you on any horse that isn't a courser or "horse archer" horse. It's worth the investment if you play a lot of strat battles on your 2H main. Entertaining change of pace, too.

You can also invest 3-4 points in shield skill to great advantage as well. I am 1H/shield, but if the team needs maulers I sometimes grab a great maul and a 1 slot shield so I can get into the fray without getting sniped by ranged. A mauler in strat honestly need ath more than wpf. You need only to hold your overhead and move into position to land the blow. they can block your slow swing all day, it doesn't matter a bit.

With no riding and no shield skill, you are largely relegated to defending spawn flags or picking off enemy stragglers. The line/blob fights that are common in strategus have no place for a 2H sword user. If it's a really important battle, both sides will keep their formations very tight.

Hope this helps. I have only played 1 gen of 2H on my main but I pay a lot of attention to the flow of battle during strat since I try to inform my team of what is going on. If you can master the use of a maul you will do very well in pretty much any battle.
Title: Re: 2handers Role In Strat Battles
Post by: Thovex on June 24, 2013, 12:26:30 pm
What you do as 2h is kill shit in 1 hit, easiest kills of your life playing 2h.

You do what you do in EU1 and EU2 as 2h, just go rampage berserk 1v10 and get 5 kills and die once (5:1 KD no problem), easy. (Also you'll win the point highscore in scoreboard for max epeen)
Title: Re: 2handers Role In Strat Battles
Post by: Casimir on June 24, 2013, 01:12:24 pm
I tend to just ride around and  give great morale bonuses to my nearby teammates due to my presence.  I find shouting lots of things at people on teamspeak that has nothing to do with the ongoing battle or strategus really helps.
Title: Re: 2handers Role In Strat Battles
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on June 24, 2013, 04:29:29 pm
Quote from: Macropus on June 24, 2013, 12:04:30 am
(click to show/hide)
So many penis pics...

Title: Re: 2handers Role In Strat Battles
Post by: tizzango on June 24, 2013, 04:36:32 pm
As the best 2hander in the real world, and the best 2hander in the game, forever number 1. I feel like I should provide my expert opinion and offer some advice to the lower tier 2handed players.

I'm kidding obviously.

But what I tend to do in Strat battles, and I dare say it's quite effective. I wait until the battle has started and then when everyone is weak, I tend to charge head on and roflblock dem piker nerds and push back their main group as much as I can then take a swift 90 degree turn and spam dat left click with a morningstar.

When the battle has withered down and the longer respawn times come, I get out DAS GREATSWORD JAAAA and duel the fuck out of every nerd who deems themselves worthy to challenge me. And I also usually partner up with a hoplite/spearman.

Title: Re: 2handers Role In Strat Battles
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on June 24, 2013, 05:08:31 pm
Smooth and WITCHCRAFT hit the nail on the penis.

From utop my OP horse, I am in a good position to observe the flow of battle. Usually, 2hers do best when skirmishing on the sides, when the line's break apart (more skirmishing), and as somebody to support the shielders and pikers (standing beside pikers, behind the shield-wall). Rushing behind the enemy line and spamming helps, too.

2h is also great for anti-cav. Pikers usually stall out enemy cav, but they rarely finish them off--you can, though, with ease. You can also lolstab cav on the flanks, or fuck them up as they make their strafing runs through your lines. Rarely do cav pay attention to anything but their intended victim.

Siege is totally different, and better for 2h imo.
Title: Re: 2handers Role In Strat Battles
Post by: dynamike on June 24, 2013, 07:37:24 pm
Quote from: KaMiKaZe_JoE on June 24, 2013, 05:08:31 pm
2h is also great for anti-cav. Pikers usually stall out enemy cav, but they rarely finish them off--you can, though, with ease. You can also lolstab cav on the flanks, or fuck them up as they make their strafing runs through your lines. Rarely do cav pay attention to anything but their intended victim.

Y U TELL DEM? DONT TELL DEM HOW TO HURT OUR KIND!

nerf anti-cav
Title: Re: 2handers Role In Strat Battles
Post by: Smoothrich on June 24, 2013, 10:46:55 pm
Quote from: dynamike on June 24, 2013, 07:37:24 pm
Y U TELL DEM? DONT TELL DEM HOW TO HURT OUR KIND!

nerf anti-cav

Any true 2hand killwhore has figured this out years ago I'm sure. Cavs are the easiest, and sweetest, kills. Just give me a great sword and some open plains   :twisted:
Title: Re: 2handers Role In Strat Battles
Post by: Jeric on June 29, 2013, 08:14:18 am
Take our shitty (troll?) friend Miley who went 100 kills 5 deaths in a recent strat siege. He just sits behind a while and spams overheads.
Title: Re: 2handers Role In Strat Battles
Post by: Spanish on July 01, 2013, 01:21:27 am
All I do is try to pick off people on the flanks or stay back with the long spear guys until I see that opportune moment to charge through enemy lines slashing at everything then push through back to my team. I can get away with that a couple times each while on open maps. While sieges just grab a shortish 2h and stick sorta behind someone else and spam overheads. Other than that don't forget to block down