cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Prpavi on June 16, 2013, 10:55:57 am

Title: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Prpavi on June 16, 2013, 10:55:57 am
So it seems HX and 2h are the most OP classes ever.

I would like to hear from you the community how would you herf 2h and make it acceptable to use.

Love, Prpavi
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Crob28 on June 16, 2013, 10:57:42 am
Every click with a 2h reduces the player's lifespan by 1-2mins, problem will resolve itself in a few days  :P
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: no_rules_just_play on June 16, 2013, 11:02:25 am
So it seems HX and 2h are the most OP classes ever.

I would like to hear from you the community how would you herf 2h and make it acceptable to use.

Love, Prpavi
you are drawing wrong conclusions. The only correct conclusion is  (lets just accept that we see the voters as a sample of the community):

'the community voted 2h and HX to be the most OP classes'

If you would do a poll with as question 'what is  your class?', you will notice that there are VERY few horsexbows and alot 2handers.
And as we know that people never vote for their own class, we cant say the results of the poll are conclusive. They are biased.
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Prpavi on June 16, 2013, 11:07:30 am
you are drawing wrong conclusions. The only correct conclusion is  (lets just accept that we see the voters as a sample of the community):

'the community voted 2h and HX to be the most OP classes'

If you would do a poll with as question 'what is  your class?', you will notice that there are VERY few horsexbows and alot 2handers.
And as we know that people never vote for their own class, we cant say the results of the poll are conclusive. They are biased.

ofc they are biased.

i am not drawing any conclusions at all.

the community said what they think is OP, now i'm asking the community how to solve the problem.
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Dexxtaa on June 16, 2013, 11:12:43 am
So it seems HX and 2h are the most OP classes ever.

I would like to hear from you the community how would you herf 2h and make it acceptable to use.

Love, Prpavi

Blanket ban NA.
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: GOBBLINKINGREATLEADER on June 16, 2013, 11:18:29 am
Ban every member of the following clans: Semen Storm, Remnant, FCC, TKoV, MB, HoC, AoW, and Astralis.
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Ulmarth on June 16, 2013, 11:21:53 am
you are drawing wrong conclusions. The only correct conclusion is  (lets just accept that we see the voters as a sample of the community):

'the community voted 2h and HX to be the most OP classes'

If you would do a poll with as question 'what is  your class?', you will notice that there are VERY few horsexbows and alot 2handers.
And as we know that people never vote for their own class, we cant say the results of the poll are conclusive. They are biased.

*Sigh* u think everyone is new? or u been with ur peasents to long :P

How bout they either cant left swing twice in a row, or they get dmg for doin repeated swings of same direction.

For cav how bout everytime they hit sumthin like a tree or a PIKE the rider comes off the horse. Or if he was using his xbow he gets a stun cos he bumped things.
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Tibe on June 16, 2013, 11:24:25 am
So it seems HX and 2h are the most OP classes ever.
.....
Voting HX to be the "most OP class ever" proves that the community doesnt give a single fuck about actually balancing the game, but just want to do themselves a favor and get all the things that annoy them personally out of the game. There is no point on asking these retards anything about weapon/gamebalancing.
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Prpavi on June 16, 2013, 11:25:43 am
Voting HX to be the "most OP class ever" proves that the community doesnt give a single fuck about actually balancing the game, but just want to do themselves a favor and get all the things that annoy them personally out of the game.


Let's keep this topic focuised on 2h oki  :wink:


HX is a story of itself.
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Kafein on June 16, 2013, 11:44:00 am
Voting HX to be the "most OP class ever" proves that the community doesnt give a single fuck about actually balancing the game, but just want to do themselves a favor and get all the things that annoy them personally out of the game. There is no point on asking these retards anything about weapon/gamebalancing.

Game FUN is more important than game balance. Choosing HX over other, more powerful classes makes sense.

About 2h :

- Enable collisions with walls
- Fix early stabs (goes for all long stabby things)
- Buff all weaker weapons damage-wise (aka make the 1h TTK not suck)
- A few specific 2h weapons should be slower
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Panos on June 16, 2013, 11:53:47 am
- Decrease the hideous speed bonus from longsword/hbs/bs

- Make the lolstab bounce a lot more, and completely make the hug stabs bounce

- Increase the stun of a fail stab

- Buff their chamber attacks

and before people start saying that I`m biased and butthurt because I`m a polearmer.

- Add the tag unbalanced to all polearms

- Nerf their speed

- Buff their damage

- Make hoplite stab, bounce if facestab

- Do not allow blocking and jumping with Pike/Lspears

Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: BlueKnight on June 16, 2013, 11:58:27 am
There is no point on asking these retards anything about weapon/gamebalancing.
This, but HX truly do a lil bit too much damage. It wouldn't be a problem at all if archers or crossbowmen actually tried to shoot those basterds...
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: obitus on June 16, 2013, 01:03:15 pm
How to nerf 2h:

-Rebuff every other class in the game
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Wiltzu on June 16, 2013, 01:07:26 pm
HX reloading time should be increased. There should be some sort of penalty for reloading crossbow on a horse.

I don't know about 2h, maybe do something about the lolstab. But then again it's just too fucking hilarious when there's 1 piker(or long spear) and 2 2hs and you just block them all with downblock  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Casimir on June 16, 2013, 02:14:09 pm
Buff 2h cav.
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Araxiel on June 16, 2013, 02:21:33 pm
This, but HX truly do a lil bit too much damage. It wouldn't be a problem at all if archers or crossbowmen actually tried to shoot those basterds...
Lost 95% hp with a body shot from a HX. Arbalest can't do that much damage.
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Torben on June 16, 2013, 02:23:14 pm
The only thing that keeps getting me with 2h is the for ever on going stab,  long after the animation has ended the gost reach stab thing slices my face.  and if the implement a turn its even funier:  he missed you with his stab,  the fucking stab animation is already retreating,  he then turns and I die.  wtf. if I was consequent and not a lazy fuck,  I would have to run around downblocking for ever around 2h stabs. ahrg.

Panos,  you cant apply that to all polearms,  many can keep the balanced tag to emulate the fighting styles with spears and axes and what not,  that cant actually be covered by warband animations.  my 2 cents
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: enigmatic_stranger on June 16, 2013, 02:24:15 pm
Make the lolstab bounce a lot more, and completely make the hug stabs bounce
Make hoplite stab, bounce if facestab
How? I think this is not possible with Warband combat system.
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: rufio on June 16, 2013, 03:28:29 pm
i did not make my thread to draw any real conclusions from it prpavi, i just wondered how the ''forum'' using community thought. and it seems most of them are indeed biased cunts. although i do think str heavy bastard/longsword users are quite op in some situations.
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Tzar on June 16, 2013, 03:30:30 pm
Stop nerfing shit.

/End Thread
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Prpavi on June 16, 2013, 06:05:00 pm
So most of the 2h nerf suggestions are actually lolstab nerf suggestions.

One inch plearm stab is ok on the other hand or...?
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Smoothrich on June 16, 2013, 06:07:36 pm

and before people start saying that I`m biased and butthurt because I`m a polearmer.

- Add the tag unbalanced to all polearms

- Nerf their speed

- Buff their damage

- Make hoplite stab, bounce if facestab

- Do not allow blocking and jumping with Pike/Lspears

Couldn't be more obviously from an s-keying long right swing polearm user if you tried.
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Artyem on June 16, 2013, 08:50:20 pm
I think the only real issue with two-handers are their ability to utterly and totally fuck you in the ass regardless of where they stand.  Are they practically in your armor with you?  They can still hit you with the hilt of their weapon for full damage, or even stab you point blank for similar damage.  Are they further away than they normally would be?  Oh well, their stab can still reach across that entire distance and with just enough reach to tickle your nose and they'll gut you where you stand.

Two directional polearms (awlpike, battlefork, etc) are getting a little bit out of hand, but I think it's more or so the community using them more often rather than a balance issue.
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Lord_Bernie_of_Voodoo on June 16, 2013, 08:53:43 pm
All greatswords should be changed to have the polearm stab animation. Much more realistic and would balance out melee combat, in my opinion.
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Grumbs on June 16, 2013, 09:14:04 pm
Revert Longsword and HBS buffs.
Make the stabs glance similarly to poles. Keep 2 hand animation, just make it less powerful at close and long range (or glance)
Either reduce the swing proximity glances with poles or increase it with 2 handers

HX can be tweaked in a lot of ways. I would reduce the accuracy more based on how fast you are travelling. Or make it so you must slow down or stop to reload.
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Malaclypse on June 17, 2013, 01:07:10 am
- Enable collisions with walls
- Fix early stabs (goes for all long stabby things)
- Buff all weaker weapons damage-wise (aka make the 1h TTK not suck)
- A few specific 2h weapons should be slower

^
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Gmnotutoo on June 17, 2013, 01:14:08 am
Increase the wpf reduction for wearing heavy armor.
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Carac on June 17, 2013, 01:22:41 am
change the 2h stab animation to the polearm animation. that is a bit more historically correct as well
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Tiger on June 17, 2013, 01:25:40 am
It would be nice if you add a stamina bar, limiting the amount you can swing before your stamina bar regenerates.

That would make DTV a lot harder though xD
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on June 17, 2013, 03:30:16 am
Buff lancer cav. We'll kill them all.
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Strudog on June 17, 2013, 09:49:08 am

- Do not allow blocking and jumping with Pike/Lspears

shows why no one takes you seriously Panos, if you did that then make downblock useless against stabs and unable to block multiple at one time
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: darmaster on June 17, 2013, 10:07:06 am
put back that old stab 2h used to have and nerf a bit their damage. also i'm tired to see how ninjas with less then 6ps take me half of hps thanks to that stupid "speed bonus" or whatever it is.
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Macropus on June 17, 2013, 12:10:27 pm
also i'm tired to see how ninjas with less then 6ps take me half of hps thanks to that stupid "speed bonus" or whatever it is.
Oh, really?
6 PS is too low indeed, anything below 8 should only be able to scratch your armour a bit.
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Vibe on June 17, 2013, 12:59:07 pm
- Decrease the hideous speed bonus from longsword/hbs/bs

i'm going to guess you mean weapon speed here not speed bonus
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: karasu on June 17, 2013, 01:29:31 pm
kids reaction to this thread:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Kafein on June 17, 2013, 02:32:44 pm
put back that old stab 2h used to have and nerf a bit their damage. also i'm tired to see how ninjas with less then 6ps take me half of hps thanks to that stupid "speed bonus" or whatever it is.

So, you don't block and then you complain about being hit ?
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: matt2507 on June 17, 2013, 04:23:15 pm
I think the HX are op because classes that can counter HX have been nerfed.

Archery: nerfed
HA: nerfed
Lance cav: nerfed

Now, they do not really have menaces against them.
In addition, apart from the "Horse Archery", they have no class weapon difficulty on their build.

I think to balance the things, crossbows should have some sort of PowerDraw.
And instead of constantly nerf, should be slightly buff classes that can counter them.
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: darmaster on June 17, 2013, 07:27:23 pm
So, you don't block and then you complain about being hit ?

?? it happens i get hit unfortunately, and i hate when people with less than 6ps take 50% of my hps with a single hit just because of their ath, that's all :l
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Macropus on June 17, 2013, 08:04:30 pm
?? it happens i get hit unfortunately, and i hate when people with less than 6ps take 50% of my hps with a single hit just because of their ath, that's all :l
You underestimate the effort they need to do for it.
To hit that hard, he has to have some nice speed bonus and aim for the head, and he pays with less survivability for that speed bonus.
If you mean agi characters are OP because they don't lose as much power as you expect them to, well you're just wrong. Try to play with heavily agi-based char for a few gens.

Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: San on June 17, 2013, 08:18:56 pm
Increase the wpf reduction for wearing heavy armor.

Make wpf reduction linear and not biased towards strength/low wpf. Plate armor and 111 wpf should have more of a decrease than 160 wpf and medium armor. This won't make heavier armors absolutely useless for agi players, too, and instead makes it more of a tradeoff. Also speeds up the game.
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Mogh on June 17, 2013, 08:33:19 pm
just
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Prpavi on June 17, 2013, 08:43:53 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Ulter on June 17, 2013, 08:45:35 pm
I don't like how all 2h are put in the same bag. It's the 2h swords, especially longsword and HBS that are problematic.

Anyways I think what should be done is reducing the 2h stab damage, while making halfswording viable
It should be possible to block while switching between normal mode and halfswording, and incresing the halfswording mode stab damage a bit.

I find it frustrating that halfswording is in the game, but is almost useless. Tweaking it might be a good way to balance 2h, without more nerfing...
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Lannistark on June 17, 2013, 08:49:18 pm
I'm hijacking this thread before it gets more hate:


(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Uther Pendragon on June 17, 2013, 08:57:57 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Lannistark on June 17, 2013, 09:00:50 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


HAHAHAHA. This is a masterpiece. Balls to you Uther, you made my day.
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Tibe on June 17, 2013, 10:04:40 pm
You underestimate the effort they need to do for it.
To hit that hard, he has to have some nice speed bonus and aim for the head, and he pays with less survivability for that speed bonus.
If you mean agi characters are OP because they don't lose as much power as you expect them to, well you're just wrong. Try to play with heavily agi-based char for a few gens.
yep. Their blade has to also do a good over 90 degree turn to pick up its speed, in which time they are easly prone to spam and their hit is more predictable and therefor easier to block.
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Konrax on June 17, 2013, 10:23:49 pm
One place I think that would be great to start is reducing the effect of power strike on increasing the sweet spot for swings, and you could do this with all weapons.

I believe it removes skill from the game a great deal if you can do these magical attacks.

1h for example is very pickey with sweet spots when you attack, and a lot of this "mysterious" speed that comes from elite 2h players is merely from having high PS that allows them to strike effectively earlier in the animation.
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Kafein on June 17, 2013, 10:30:11 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Btw you are missing the hidden super secret boards but I think I would fail at finding a good parody for all of them.
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Gravoth_iii on June 17, 2013, 10:33:21 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Perfect, except for the marketplace should be the Scamming grounds.
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Konrax on June 19, 2013, 01:00:13 am
One place I think that would be great to start is reducing the effect of power strike on increasing the sweet spot for swings, and you could do this with all weapons.

I believe it removes skill from the game a great deal if you can do these magical attacks.

1h for example is very pickey with sweet spots when you attack, and a lot of this "mysterious" speed that comes from elite 2h players is merely from having high PS that allows them to strike effectively earlier in the animation.

In all honesty the sweet spots for swings should be forced at power strike 4-5 levels for all weapons and remove the buff power strike gives completely.

That way it really only adds raw damage.
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: karasu on June 20, 2013, 01:00:27 am
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Akynos on June 20, 2013, 03:29:58 pm
- Decrease the hideous speed bonus from longsword/hbs/bs

- Make the lolstab bounce a lot more, and completely make the hug stabs bounce

- Increase the stun of a fail stab

- Buff their chamber attacks

and before people start saying that I`m biased and butthurt because I`m a polearmer.

- Add the tag unbalanced to all polearms

- Nerf their speed

- Buff their damage

- Make hoplite stab, bounce if facestab

- Do not allow blocking and jumping with Pike/Lspears


I'll have to disagree on there Panus ! ( lame joke I know)
When a 2h with low wpf ( aka me ith high str and armor) makes a stab that does not hit, the stun if enough to allow the enemy to have a free hit. I have died numerous times as 2h with that bullcrap.
Making the stun longer is like katana-stabbing, it will mean 'lol, u thrust u die biatch'.
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Kafein on June 20, 2013, 05:48:35 pm

I'll have to disagree on there Panus ! ( lame joke I know)
When a 2h with low wpf ( aka me ith high str and armor) makes a stab that does not hit, the stun if enough to allow the enemy to have a free hit. I have died numerous times as 2h with that bullcrap.
Making the stun longer is like katana-stabbing, it will mean 'lol, u thrust u die biatch'.

This. A stun of that kind should allow blocking in time, no matter the speeds.

Instead, remove this gamey feature that lets you feint thrust at pointblank, produce a bounce sound but still do another (and I think it is faster than usual) slash because you "feinted". This is a minor problem though and depending on who you ask it should remain because that's a fairly high skill move.
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on June 21, 2013, 02:42:09 pm
This. A stun of that kind should allow blocking in time, no matter the speeds.

Instead, remove this gamey feature that lets you feint thrust at pointblank, produce a bounce sound but still do another (and I think it is faster than usual) slash because you "feinted". This is a minor problem though and depending on who you ask it should remain because that's a fairly high skill move.
This feature isn't just a 2h one, just as easy to do with an espada or a warspear.
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: OttomanSniper on June 22, 2013, 06:13:53 am
any STR player can use xbow, xbow need Power Draw skill. if u dont want hear more pew pew put PD skill for xbow. All archers 100%, xbow 70%, bow archer 30% because bow archer is a class and we are use skill point for this, but xbow is not a class not need PD skill... its a big BUG!
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: the real god emperor on June 22, 2013, 10:10:28 pm
No, PD requirement for crossbows would be so silly.Just slow them down, make every damn map rainy,increase their reloading time or make an crossbow jam chance intentionally.
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Konrax on June 23, 2013, 07:04:28 am
Xbow on horseback should have a 50% increased draw time.

That way there is an advantage and a disadvantage to being on horseback.
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Panos on June 24, 2013, 11:25:13 am
i'm going to guess you mean weapon speed here not speed bonus

Yes, clearly a mistake from my part, I wanted to write, Damage gained from the Speed Bonus

shows why no one takes you seriously Panos, if you did that then make downblock useless against stabs and unable to block multiple at one time

Thats ok Strudog, no one will nerf your precious Lspear.
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: tizzango on June 24, 2013, 11:51:30 am
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Rebelyell on June 24, 2013, 12:42:37 pm
you all cry about 2h but balanced knock weapons are still ingame
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Smoothrich on June 24, 2013, 03:45:43 pm
you all cry about 2h but balanced knock weapons are still ingame

People with military hammers spamming nudge, kicks, and knockdowns (especially with something like heavy xbow on their back) are disgusting right now.

I've begun playing like this in Strategus with 0 WPF in either xbows or 1handers and I started getting 9:1 kds lol
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: woody on June 27, 2013, 11:40:27 am
2h op thread seems to always reappear.

The main culprits in EU were Cora, Wayyyne and Mauwits. Massive number of in game chat comments (QQs) about all of them only being good because they are 2H spammers.

Saw all 3 at different times play 1h and they were at least as dominant.

Maybe the problem is a high proportion of the better players chose 2h because its more fun and so makes it appear op? I dread any of these 3 using an awlpike though.

As an average player I play 2h because I enjoy it, but also have spent 3 gens on alt as 1h no shield which is a laugh. I find 1h with shield a bit like part of the game is missing.
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Cup1d on July 01, 2013, 11:00:48 am
 Make all successful pierce attack stack in an enemy body. Add possibilty to free your stacked weapon with connected kick.
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: MiszczPralki_Pl on July 02, 2013, 03:54:56 pm
buff all +5 to dmg nerf speed to 70/80 thats all
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: //saxon on July 02, 2013, 05:40:57 pm
Make all successful pierce attack stack in an enemy body. Add possibilty to free your stacked weapon with connected kick.
you realize how hard that would be to implement xD.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


And yes 2H for me personally i love role playing and my gear right now fits my role play perfectly, for my eyes it looks fantastic(my outfit of course) and it fits with what im role playing.

if you get all the players on cRPG together i think there will be roughly the same amount of each class, except for xbow cav and horse archers.
and yes there is also alot of good players that are 2h, but there is alot of players that are boss like on every class, its just what they are use too.

and that brings me too my final point:

Play Styles! people tend too moan about 2h because they watch the god-like players and just assume they can do what they do because of 2h, well no its just their play style they have adapted and evolved their own play style and techniques and attack combo's to try and beat other players, so its basicaly play style vs play style. if you keep losing against someone sometimes they know your play style too well and know for sure your weaknesses and how to beat you.

example: kinngrimms play style, get in close get fast swings in and mass on damage, to counter that play style i learnt how too kick slash and with it knew how to beat kinngrimms play style.

same goes for reading the enemies next move

quick example of that: sometimes i know for sure that my enemy will do a faint on their next move, so to counter that i swing twice and i hit on the second time because they fainted.

there are many ways to beat classes and there are many reasons 2H are not OP. no class is OP players just fail to much, like me xD
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Cup1d on July 03, 2013, 11:24:04 am
you realize how hard that would be to implement xD.


I realize that devs prefer to do balancing in a hard way. No reason to broke this old\good tradition.
Title: Re: How to nerf 2h
Post by: Rebelyell on July 03, 2013, 06:57:08 pm
that wuld be silli after all