cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Archivus on June 11, 2013, 08:24:26 am
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Disclaimer: The following material is based solely on my speculations and perceptions.
What I percieve while playing battle mode:
- Most archers don't use priority targetting (instead of going for dangerous melee 2 handers or polearmers they rather shoot peasants/archers/other ranged classes presumably because they can't hurt the heavy armoured melee classes enough to make a difference.)
=> The heavy armoured non-shielder players can roam around unsuppressed early game, enough to close distance to the enemy infantry and start swinging. Since these players are the most effective vs infantry they will mostly come out on top in the main fight. I only mention the main fight here because it is often all that decides the outcome of the battle.
I think this is also why 2h is often portrayed as an OP class, simply because they don't/can't get suppressed good enough by their natural counter: the archer.
I know this is a controversial topic but I'm just trying to contribute, and of course I ask for your thoughts on the subject. :rolleyes:
Note: there are always exceptional players like some archers that can completely annihilate armies but this post is about average players.
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When I was an archer for a gen I aimed at anyone that looked vulnerable. Not vulnerable due to armor but being out in the open or something, or I would shoot the really skilled players without shields.
Then again I was using bodkins and a longbow so armor wasn't a biggy.
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One of the problems is that getting valour for archery is almost impossible, thus landing 30+ shots on heavily armored opponents and getting say, 1 kill nets the same amount of points as targeting peasants and getting 3-4 kills. I'm sure if there was some sort of buff to points earned for being accurate and landing a high percentage of your shots this problem could be alleviated.
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One of the problems is that getting valour for archery is almost impossible, thus landing 30+ shots on heavily armored opponents and getting say, 1 kill nets the same amount of points as targeting peasants and getting 3-4 kills. I'm sure if there was some sort of buff to points earned for being accurate and landing a high percentage of your shots this problem could be alleviated.
This will be only hiding the truth. Archers have less impact on determining the outcome of a battle if they are doing less harm. No point system can fix that.
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This will be only hiding the truth. Archers have less impact on determining the outcome of a battle if they are doing less harm. No point system can fix that.
But they wouldn't be doing less harm, they would just be getting less kills.
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I think this is also why 2h is often portrayed as an OP class, simply because they don't/can't get suppressed good enough by their natural counter: the archer.
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Maybe they could use the shot difficulty indicator that they use in Warband singleplayer, but use it in calculating points for archery. Like how much damage you did, from how far away, and where you hit him.
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The thing that frustrates me most when I play as an archer is that you can make either damage or money.
Either the cost of bodkin arrows should be reduced, or damage of other arrows incresed.
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Archery really need a buff (im not and i hate archer)
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Huehuehue buff archery huehuehue :lol:
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You forgot to mention the fact that archers don't interact in melee and have an absolute advantage on distance, which is unfair in a multiplayer game, so there's a reason that they are nerfed and "not liked by devs".
Give them better melee capabilities to solve this but don't buff or nerf ranged alone.
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Its a clear fact that ranged classes have a massive disadvantage at getting valour.
And noone can tell me that melee is harder than archery, just try it out.
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One of the problems is that getting valour for archery is almost impossible...
We all know that archers are valourous warriors that never flee. Always picking up the fight... Such bravery can't remain unrewarded. Gief valour to all archers!
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OP manages to be spot on the opposite of the truth, if that is at all possible.
Archers like to shoot people that are easy to hit. Which means not too far and easy to predict. Everything else but that and self-defense is secondary.
Melee players that by definition can't allocate their whole attention to things that can be very far away do not always see there's an archer and for this reason do not always move erratically. Conversely, archers make terrible archer targets because they can keep aware of their distant surroundings. You don't see any archer shooting another archer unless there's no choice.
By the way, this renders the whole "hide under imaginary cover so your team can kill the archers for you" argument moot, but I guess people will keep using it like "get a shield".
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We all know that archers are valourous warriors that never flee. Always picking up the fight... Such bravery can't remain unrewarded. Gief valour to all archers!
This misses the point. The point is that the valour system exists to reward exceptionally good players with some xtra xp and gold.
I don't see why a good ranged shouldn't be rewarded but a 2H who STR crutches and goes full plate spamming zerg should be.
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Thanks everybody for the discussion. I want to rectify some things about my post because I've thought over the matter some more.
Buffing archers won't do any good here, I realised.
I meant to say something along the lines of: The objective in battle is too unclear, many people do not necessarily think for the good of the team but for themselves first and it would be much more interesting if players play for the win rather than having a good killing spree before dying.
Yes, I am a hypocrite
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An admin pls close this thread untill OP downloads and plays the game he is writing about.
1: Archers shoot what they can hit. This means: any enemy who is not taking evasive, and some that are evading a different archer, making their dodges linear to the archer they are unaware of, making them easy targets.
2. Archers shoot other archers when they CAN: this means when other archer is targetting someone ina different tangent and therefor are not dodging laterally to the shooter. Notice that archers (not noobs, but archers) will dodge between shots even when there is noone shooting at them: ones who dont do this are not archers, they are casualties.
3. 2handers, large polespammers, 1handers (no shield) are only too aware that they are archer targets, they have felt the sting of the feathered death before: They continuesly move in lateral angles and try to time their changes of direction to not coincide with when the arrows are zipping past (ones who dont do this are not fighters, they are casualties).
4. Archers main target of opportunity is cav: easy to hit, and very dangerous if ignored...
SO: Archers shoot what they can hit because their ammo is not unlimited, they dont tend to prioritise targets, but take targets of opportunity. Usually I get 1 or 2 points per hit, so if I landed every shot of 30, thats a max of 60 points, but since a combination of hitboxes being tweakable by spastic mouse spam and shots not being accurate with anything less than 150-160 wpf, your not going to land every shot. So valour for pure archer: rare.
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This misses the point. The point is that the valour system exists to reward exceptionally good players with some xtra xp and gold.
I don't see why a good ranged shouldn't be rewarded but a 2H who STR crutches and goes full plate spamming zerg should be.
You make it sound like it's impossible. It's a bit harder, but not that much.
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OK, I will stop shitposting now.
Reading all of your replies makes me realise that the problem here is me. I guess the game doesn't interest me enough anymore as it has evolved into what it is and I shouldn't try to change it. Sorry for wasting your time. Time for me to move on to another game. Thanks, bye.
Also, close this thread or rather remove it.
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OK, I will stop shitposting now.
Reading all of your replies makes me realise that the problem here is me. I guess the game doesn't interest me enough anymore as it has evolved into what it is and I shouldn't try to change it. Sorry for wasting your time. Time for me to move on to another game. Thanks, bye.
Also, close this thread or rather remove it.
Bro, you just need +3 bow and arrows. I could borrow you some through armoury if you applied to Nordmen. Just so you can borrow items and try the game from other perspective. If you want to know any details or anything just PM me, also people on crpg forum are stubborn&hard like dicksteeldonkey. We have similar topics for over 2 years all the time based on the same shit. Anyway, this mod is pretty much addictive so I guess leaving it may be better for your health but you may also miss a lot of fun, especially once you meet some 'cewl' guys, the game becomes good.
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You make it sound like it's impossible. It's a bit harder, but not that much.
Actually its not the point that its too hard for archtards but too easy for plate crutching zergmode spammers, at least on Siege.
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Bro, you just need +3 bow and arrows. I could borrow you some through armoury if you applied to Nordmen. Just so you can borrow items and try the game from other perspective. If you want to know any details or anything just PM me, also people on crpg forum are stubborn&hard like dicksteeldonkey. We have similar topics for over 2 years all the time based on the same shit. Anyway, this mod is pretty much addictive so I guess leaving it may be better for your health but you may also miss a lot of fun, especially once you meet some 'cewl' guys, the game becomes good.
You are right. When somebody sais 'I'm quitting the mod' that most likely means 'I'll be back after a couple of days'.
cRPG is a curse :cry: