Off Topic => General Off Topic => Topic started by: CrazyCracka420 on May 21, 2013, 06:50:35 pm
Title: Tipping thread (who do you tip/don't tip)
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on May 21, 2013, 06:50:35 pm
In the USA it's standard practice to tip your waiter/waitresses 15-25% of the total bill. The reason for this is a lot of them are paid less than the federal minimum wage, and the government charges then taxes on 15% of each bill they serve (something like that). So it's basically "mandatory" to tip a restaurant waiter/waitress. It's also pretty standard for people to tip a taxi cab driver, or a barber/hairstylist.
But it has me wondering, why don't we tip ALL service industry workers? Some people tip the maids after they stay at a hotel. But I personally don't. Recently got into a debate with family/friends about this and a lot of them believe firmly in tipping the maids. I asked them why they feel they should tip the maids for just doing their jobs, and the only real reasoning I could gather, was because "it's a shitty job" (cleaning toilets, cleaning up people's messes/bodily fluids, etc).
I gave them my analogy for tipping maids is like Mr. Pink's reasoning for not automatically tipping waitresses at a restaurant, and apparently that makes me an insensitive jerk. But then I brought up the fact that there's a lot of service jobs out there, and most of them we don't tip. We typically don't tip doctors, dentists, trash collectors, janitors, school teachers, counselors/psychologists, fast food workers, car mechanics (can't think of more now, but I know there's a ton out there). I'm an IT guy who provides services for external customers (fixing problems they create typically) and I never get tipped.
I understand the automatic tipping of waiters/waitresses here, but do you believe that there are other people that "automatically" deserve a tip? How do you justify tipping them, and not all services people do for you?
Title: Re: Tipping thread (who do you tip/don't tip)
Post by: Turboflex on May 21, 2013, 07:19:13 pm
As you mentioned, the business model for certain jobs incorporates tipping into the pay model. When someone is hired, the expectation is there will be tipping, thus they are paid less. In a normal competitive market (and most industries that have tipping are very competitive retail service sectors) these labour savings are just passed onto consumers anyway through competition. It's just a shell game with the money and a peculiarity that it is how these industries evolved.
As for maids, the entire hotel industry seems to have evolved in a tip driven manner. You tip the bellhop and concierge too for personal service. There's an expectation of a tip built into their pay model, which means they get paid less salary, and this savings in a competitive area means the hotelier can bring down your room price a bit to become more attractive compared to competing hotels, so in theory you get that savings anyway. That's how the pricing works, so if you withhold the tip they are not getting paid. So your call, but yes you are a bad person if you do this. I wouldn't tell anyone about it if I were you because people will judge you poorly, especially anyone who has ever worked such a job where the compensation model was tip driven. So you can save a few bucks but you are essentially ripping off the workers and you will look very bad from it which can hurt your professional and personal relationships due to people considering you some sort of miserly weirdo/loser.
Title: Re: Tipping thread (who do you tip/don't tip)
Post by: no_rules_just_play on May 21, 2013, 07:47:23 pm
EU: just include the tip in the price
why you have to try to be so complicated, america?
Title: Re: Tipping thread (who do you tip/don't tip)
Post by: Wiltzu on May 21, 2013, 07:50:30 pm
It's true. At least in Finland the tip is included into the price.
Title: Re: Tipping thread (who do you tip/don't tip)
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on May 21, 2013, 07:59:57 pm
why you have to try to be so complicated, america?
Hey, I wish we didn't have to make things so complicated...my perfect model:
Pay your employees a fair living wage, competitive with other, similar jobs. Charge customers what you want to charge to cover the cost of employees wages, the product, other costs, and enough to make whatever profit you're shooting for. If people choose to reward you for your service, they can tip on top of it.
But I don't think the "tip" should be included in the price of the bill...pay your employees a fair wage, charge the customers what you're actually trying to recoup from the food/service/product, if the people want to go above and beyond and tip you, then that's a tip. When it's required, it's not a tip.
Title: Re: Tipping thread (who do you tip/don't tip)
Post by: Rumblood on May 21, 2013, 08:29:23 pm
It is 8% Cracka.
Since the government charges them tax on 8% of the total of the bill, I make sure to tip at least that. On bills under about $10, I tip at least $2 though. Up to $100 for my family of 5, it is usually $10-$15, over $100 about $15-$20.
But other situations it depends upon whether they add a value to the service above and beyond the minimum. For example, a friend of mine tips at self-service cafeteria type places while I don't. You get your own food going down a line. You get your own silverware, drinks and refills. The only thing that someone does is come to the table and remove the plates and wipe the table. They are not waiters and don't pay taxes on the bill. They don't add any value to the service and so no tip is left. At a buffet where a watiress comes and refills your tea, takes plates away while you are eating, gets extra bread, etc, yes I leave a tip for her. Extra value was added.
Taxis, if it was a good ride, he took the best route without running up the meter, then probably I'll tip. If it is a regular cabby for me, I'll tip. But if the guy takes a longer route to run up the tab and has a shitty smelly cab, well he already got his tip.
I don't tip maids in the hotels. I don't interact with them, they get paid what they get paid and they don't get charged taxes for the cost of the stay. If perhaps they went out of their way to do something extra that they didn't need to do? Like room service? I do then. But I've stayed in places all over the states and and that has been a very rare occasion, so otherwise, no.
Title: Re: Tipping thread (who do you tip/don't tip)
Post by: Torost on May 21, 2013, 08:31:48 pm
Tipping in Scandinavian culture is very limited. We tip waiters,barkeeps and taxidrivers mostly.
I think it comes from the hazzle of settling in cash. The VISAterminals comes with a tipfeature aswell for those services.
And in some degree imported from travels abroad were it is more common. I personally feel it is more expected today than 20 years ago.
I wish that the price was the price, and the owner shared some of the revenue with their employees instead. Good service == more products sold, repeat customers and so on.
Mismatch of expectations when the bill is due can put a taint on the experience that serves no good to anyone. The waiter showing disgust for a low tip or the tipper paying more in tip than he really wants to just to avoid the akward situation.
Title: Re: Tipping thread (who do you tip/don't tip)
Post by: Banok on May 21, 2013, 08:32:39 pm
that scene was the only part of reservoir dogs I liked. cause I never tip. fuck that. waiters deserve charity? if i'm going to give money to charity I can think on a million better causes.
n yeah I love most tarantino but that film was really really really bland imo.
Title: Re: Tipping thread (who do you tip/don't tip)
Post by: Turboflex on May 21, 2013, 08:34:23 pm
Yeah a lot of people like tipping. I do. It feels good to do it at the end of a nice meal, or when some guy just hauled your luggage around, makes me feel like a big man.
I didn't like it at all in Europe where it's included. BTW service in Europe is terrible, COINCIDENCE RIGHT?
Title: Re: Tipping thread (who do you tip/don't tip)
Post by: zagibu on May 21, 2013, 08:41:45 pm
Yeah a lot of people like tipping. I do. It feels good to do it at the end of a nice meal, or when some guy just hauled your luggage around, makes me feel like a big man.
I didn't like it at all in Europe where it's included. BTW service in Europe is terrible, COINCIDENCE RIGHT?
Yeah, Europe sucks a lot, and I can't understand their European, it's a very barbaric language.
Title: Re: Tipping thread (who do you tip/don't tip)
Post by: Mala on May 21, 2013, 08:44:53 pm
It's true. At least in Finland the tip is included into the price.
In germanyland it is not.
Usually i pay my hairdresser a bit extra, her wage is not the best. Waiter/waitress, well in the past i have not given tips, but because of my current work i have to deal with gastronomy business and i have some waitresses in my circle of acquaintances, too. Now they get some extra payment from me as well, because they are underpayed (even the ones in a classy restaurant) and have lousy working hours.
Ohh, and my regular döner/kebab shop gets some euros extra, on the other hand i get a lot of free stuff from them as well.
Even i get some tips sometimes. But not that often and your customers don´t have to do this, because that i help them is part of my job and i get paid for it.
Title: Re: Tipping thread (who do you tip/don't tip)
Post by: EponiCo on May 21, 2013, 09:16:04 pm
I generally tip waiters including food delivery (I mean that's just a waiter with a car right?) and hairdressers. I find it really weird, though. I've always considered it originated from not wanting to go through exchanging small coins. Which to be fair can be a real pain also especially when you have to serve 10 customers a minute. It is fine to round up to 15 when you pay 13,49, but when the price is 10,99 you can either go to 11 (and they probably hate you even if they often don't get tips) or 15 which is rather excessive.
That doctors, car mechanics, teachers, etc. don't get tips is quite explainable because they are all paid with transactions. Though in the place where I grew up some private people would give their regular service workers small gifts on christmas. That includes f.e. garbage disposal who are paid by the state here.
Title: Re: Tipping thread (who do you tip/don't tip)
Post by: B3RS3RK on May 21, 2013, 09:25:41 pm
I oftenly tip cab drivers and waiters(If I have the money, but as a poor student when I go eat, its mostly very tightly calculated so there is not much room for tips).
Overall, my opinion on tips: It should be something given for extraordinary service, if you are in the right mood and if you have so much money you dont even care.
I´d much rather have a bit higher prices and the waiters a bit higher wages than having to tip all the time, it´s really exhausting.
What really blow´s my mind is when service people EXPECT tips like it´s mandatory; What kind of sense does a tip make if I HAVE to give the extra money?Might aswell make everything more expensive, then(As I mentioned).
If someone doesnt serve me well, he won´t get any tips, that´s it.Especially in the US there seems to be this state of mind among waiters that all people who dont tip or even tip too few(Really?You are not only expecting a tip, you are getting angry if the amount tipped is too low?Well, fuck you then)are absolute assholes and need to be spit in their food or worse.
This is a topic I could be going on about for hours; It is just my opinion that you get fucking paid for your work already, I dont HAVE to give you more money for something you already get money for(Because that´s fucking bullshit-logic).I like to tip if I can, but it makes me furious when people just take it for granted.
Just because you are getting a low wage doesnt mean I have to treat you seperately - as somebody mentioned already, we don´t even tip doctors who save our lives(Mainly because they earn enough), why am I required to tip you?
TL;DR: Giving a tip should be a CHOICE with no negative or positive consequences whatsoever.
Title: Re: Tipping thread (who do you tip/don't tip)
Post by: Turboflex on May 21, 2013, 09:54:16 pm
This is a topic I could be going on about for hours; It is just my opinion that you get fucking paid for your work already, I dont HAVE to give you more money for something you already get money for(Because that´s fucking bullshit-logic).I like to tip if I can, but it makes me furious when people just take it for granted.
Just because you are getting a low wage doesnt mean I have to treat you seperately - as somebody mentioned already, we don´t even tip doctors who save our lives(Mainly because they earn enough), why am I required to tip you?
TL;DR: Giving a tip should be a CHOICE with no negative or positive consequences whatsoever.
No it's not a choice, consistent tipping for certain professions is a fundamental part of their modern compensation.
It's taken for granted when they are hired, that regular tips from customers are part of their compensation, which is why they get a lower base salary. It's taken for granted by broader society that they then get tips for doing their job, yes it's a quirk that logically is somewhat out of step with normal compensation practices.
Is it a coincidence that your little rebellion against tipping also saves you money? Try it if you want, but my advice is you keep it to yourself as a little secret because society at large understands the tipping-compensation relationship even if you are too dense to, and you will be judged harshly as a cheap loser if it is known you don't tip.
Title: Re: Tipping thread (who do you tip/don't tip)
Post by: Kafein on May 21, 2013, 10:04:44 pm
Where I've been in the EU people usually don't tip. Which means that when you do it's meaningful, you thank the person for good service.
About the pay model, businesses that deliberately pay their employees less to have lower nominal prices and then expect you to pay more as a mandatory tip, can go fuck themselves. That's a schoolbook example of bait & switch.
Title: Re: Tipping thread (who do you tip/don't tip)
Post by: Leesin on May 21, 2013, 10:25:38 pm
Yes I give waiters tips all the time, like get a better fucking job.
Kidding, I always tip if the service was good, if it wasn't then I don't tip anything.
Title: Re: Tipping thread (who do you tip/don't tip)
Post by: B3RS3RK on May 21, 2013, 10:38:16 pm
No it's not a choice, consistent tipping for certain professions is a fundamental part of their modern compensation.
It's taken for granted when they are hired, that regular tips from customers are part of their compensation, which is why they get a lower base salary. It's taken for granted by broader society that they then get tips for doing their job, yes it's a quirk that logically is somewhat out of step with normal compensation practices.
Is it a coincidence that your little rebellion against tipping also saves you money? Try it if you want, but my advice is you keep it to yourself as a little secret because society at large understands the tipping-compensation relationship even if you are too dense to, and you will be judged harshly as a cheap loser if it is known you don't tip.
You obviously didnt read or understand everything I wrote.
I DO tip.I LIKE to tip.I just DONT like people taking tips for granted(Also, about the saving money part: I mentioned that I am a rather poor student, and when I get something to eat, it often is that I have just enough money to pay what I ordered, which makes tipping impossible.But whenever tips fit in my budget, I tip) At least in germany, tipping is not mandatory; It is, however, rather customary to tip, which I am okay with.It leaves me the freedom of choice, and nobody will treat you different if you dont tip; people do their job for which they are paid for, and if they get tipped, they are grateful.
This is something I miss whenever I hear something about the american tipping culture.You see, I think the actual Problem here are the Employers, not the Employees, and their attitude about the problem, which has lead to this kind of culture.
Basically, this:
Quote
About the pay model, businesses that deliberately pay their employees less to have lower nominal prices and then expect you to pay more as a mandatory tip, can go fuck themselves. That's a schoolbook example of bait & switch.
There are enough taxes, I should not be forced to pay a 10-15% "service tax" everytime I buy a service or something to eat connected with service.
Iam glad we dont have this shit round here in germany.
Title: Re: Tipping thread (who do you tip/don't tip)
Post by: Malaclypse on May 21, 2013, 10:40:43 pm
Basically, USA needs to integrate tips into the bill, or Waitresses and other workers who depend on tips need to lobby collectively for better pay.
I avoid the whole situation by generally not supporting businesses which use that model of pay (why go out to eat when I can make better food at home, I'm lazy but not that lazy, and I enjoy cooking; why have someone else change my oil when I can do it myself very easily, etc).
Title: Re: Tipping thread (who do you tip/don't tip)
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on May 21, 2013, 10:46:12 pm
Basically, USA needs to integrate tips into the bill, or Waitresses and other workers who depend on tips need to lobby collectively for better pay.
I avoid the whole situation by generally not supporting businesses which use that model of pay (why go out to eat when I can make better food at home, I'm lazy but not that lazy, and I enjoy cooking; why have someone else change my oil when I can do it myself very easily, etc).
We should get us MN players together and call it the Great Minnesota Smoke Out 2013 (and do some grilling). Found another one of us in our midst, Bonesaw is from the cities as well
Title: Re: Tipping thread (who do you tip/don't tip)
Post by: Overdriven on May 21, 2013, 10:46:49 pm
In the USA it's standard practice to tip your waiter/waitresses 15-25% of the total bill. The reason for this is a lot of them are paid less than the federal minimum wage, and the government charges then taxes on 15% of each bill they serve (something like that). So it's basically "mandatory" to tip a restaurant waiter/waitress. It's also pretty standard for people to tip a taxi cab driver, or a barber/hairstylist.
But it has me wondering, why don't we tip ALL service industry workers? Some people tip the maids after they stay at a hotel. But I personally don't. Recently got into a debate with family/friends about this and a lot of them believe firmly in tipping the maids. I asked them why they feel they should tip the maids for just doing their jobs, and the only real reasoning I could gather, was because "it's a shitty job" (cleaning toilets, cleaning up people's messes/bodily fluids, etc).
I gave them my analogy for tipping maids is like Mr. Pink's reasoning for not automatically tipping waitresses at a restaurant, and apparently that makes me an insensitive jerk. But then I brought up the fact that there's a lot of service jobs out there, and most of them we don't tip. We typically don't tip doctors, dentists, trash collectors, janitors, school teachers, counselors/psychologists, fast food workers, car mechanics (can't think of more now, but I know there's a ton out there). I'm an IT guy who provides services for external customers (fixing problems they create typically) and I never get tipped.
I understand the automatic tipping of waiters/waitresses here, but do you believe that there are other people that "automatically" deserve a tip? How do you justify tipping them, and not all services people do for you?
In the UK it's generally 10%. Waiters and waitresses auto tip but rarely do other people get tips. Also a lot of restaurants now include a service charge of 10% in the bill rather than a tip. But that usually just means they can get away with paying their staff on minimum wage and earn a bit more out of it. I was in India recently and there you tip everyone. From the guy cleaning the toilet to the guy holding the door open at the hotel. It's standard practice.
What I can't stand is people asking for tips :|
Title: Re: Tipping thread (who do you tip/don't tip)
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on May 21, 2013, 10:49:58 pm
In the UK it's generally 10%. Waiters and waitresses auto tip but rarely do other people get tips. I was in India recently and there you tip everyone. From the guy cleaning the toilet to the guy holding the door open at the hotel. It's standard practice.
What I can't stand is people asking for tips :|
Never had anyone ask me for a tip before, you're sure it was a tip they were asking for, and not a handout (like a homeless person)?
Title: Re: Tipping thread (who do you tip/don't tip)
Post by: Overdriven on May 21, 2013, 10:52:15 pm
Never had anyone ask me for a tip before, you're sure it was a tip they were asking for, and not a handout (like a homeless person)?
It doesn't happen so much in the UK. But in Thailand and India it happened every where. I don't think they fully understand the tipping culture. Most of the ones who asked I would have given a tip but it pisses me off when they do.
Title: Re: Tipping thread (who do you tip/don't tip)
Post by: Rumblood on May 21, 2013, 11:30:39 pm
Here's a free tip. Don't eat in places where tips are expected as part of the service. Eat at McDonald's or a cafeteria where they don't. Or eat at home. You aren't forced to eat at those establishments. It is part of the business practice in the U.S. and you are well aware of it. Case in point, depending upon the restaurant, they automatically add a 15% gratuity on parties larger than X number of people. Why? Because their servers are being taxed on a percentage of your bill and while being stiffed by a single person doesn't hurt that much, larger tables do. And yes, it is called being stiffed. The only reason you should walk out without paying an appropriate tip is when the waiter simply didn't service your table properly, e.g. you were constantly without a drink refill, your food came out cold, etc. Otherwise you are just as much a douche as you make the people out to be who expect you to follow the common expected business model.
Title: Re: Tipping thread (who do you tip/don't tip)
Post by: B3RS3RK on May 21, 2013, 11:41:02 pm
That Business practice is simply shit.
It´s just a practice I would only grudgingly follow when I´m in the US, and I would only follow it because NOT following it would make eating at way too many places awkward/dangerous.
Quote
Because their servers are being taxed on a percentage of your bill
And THAT is the biggest shitfuck tax I have ever heard of.
Title: Re: Tipping thread (who do you tip/don't tip)
Post by: Duster on May 21, 2013, 11:44:41 pm
If you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to go out to eat.
Title: Re: Tipping thread (who do you tip/don't tip)
Post by: B3RS3RK on May 22, 2013, 12:02:45 am
If you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to go out to eat.
Yeah, and if you cant afford to buy a band-shirt you cant afford to go on a concert or what?
Oh wait, that comparison isnt really good because when I buy a band-shirt, I get actual value, while a tip is just something I give to someone that has just fullfilled the service I was paying for in the first place.
So basically it would be like giving the guy you just bought a band-shirt from more money for selling you the shirt.
Maybe it´s just the cultural difference and probably we wont ever get to an agreement in this discussion acceptable for both, but I have stated my opinion and I find that most people I meet in my country share it.
Title: Re: Tipping thread (who do you tip/don't tip)
Post by: Rumblood on May 22, 2013, 12:08:13 am
It´s just a practice I would only grudgingly follow when I´m in the US, and I would only follow it because NOT following it would make eating at way too many places awkward/dangerous.
And THAT is the biggest shitfuck tax I have ever heard of.
I don't like the "Free to Play, Pay to Win" game models. But I don't go there and complain about them. I simply don't play them if I don't like it.
Title: Re: Tipping thread (who do you tip/don't tip)
Post by: B3RS3RK on May 22, 2013, 12:13:49 am
I don't like the "Free to Play, Pay to Win" game models. But I don't go there and complain about them. I simply don't play them if I don't like it.
The big difference is that those games do not make up the majority of good games.Furthermore, games are accessible anywhere and anytime, while living in a certain area could make it impossible for me to eat anywhere else than McDonalds if I follow your advice.
Also, I dont "go there and complain", I am simply stating my opinion of a, from my point of view, absolutely idiotic system which sole purpose it is to fuck over the customer in favor of the employer.
Title: Re: Tipping thread (who do you tip/don't tip)
Post by: Rumblood on May 22, 2013, 01:53:19 am
The big difference is that those games do not make up the majority of good games.Furthermore, games are accessible anywhere and anytime, while living in a certain area could make it impossible for me to eat anywhere else than McDonalds if I follow your advice.
Also, I dont "go there and complain", I am simply stating my opinion of a, from my point of view, absolutely idiotic system which sole purpose it is to fuck over the customer in favor of the employer.
Actually, the one who gets fucked over is the government. If it weren't a tip based system, the employer is going to charge you whatever amount the employee gains from a non-tip system. If the employee gets 15% of the check pre-tip, you get charged an extra 15%. In the current system, employees are charged 8% of sales, while making anywhere from 10-25% (I know I made 20%+ on average back in the day) but they only report 8% to the IRS, making the other 2-17% tax free. The system you are grouching should be in place, would result in you paying more as right now you can tip the minimum. Under your system you couldn't. Then it would result in the employee paying more to the government in taxes because they would pay exactly what the employer reports that they are paying them, which would be less than good waiters and waitresses make under the current system.
So if you got your way, who would benefit? The Government by collecting ALOT more in taxes. Who would not be affected much? The employer would have to pay more in matching social security and medicaid taxes, but not much and they would make it up by charging you more on your bill. Who would get fucked? The employee who now has to pay more in taxes and get less income than a decent waiter/waitress actually makes. Anyone who tips the minimum like you who now has to pay more than you would have, both in terms in size of the actual tip and the extra on top of the tip you will pay to make up for the employers share of the taxes.
Seriously, you don't understand what you would get if you got your way. You are asking to be fucked in the ass with a bristle brush.
Title: Re: Tipping thread (who do you tip/don't tip)
Post by: zagibu on May 22, 2013, 02:01:54 am
Hey, I got a great idea, why not offer everything for free and request 100% of the price as tips? More money for the people, right? Who needs roads, we can drive through densest forest with our 4x4.
Title: Re: Tipping thread (who do you tip/don't tip)
Post by: Rumblood on May 22, 2013, 02:31:30 am
Hey, I got a great idea, why not offer everything for free and request 100% of the price as tips? More money for the people, right? Who needs roads, we can drive through densest forest with our 4x4.
Roads would be privatized, as the government already is moving to make standard. The governments are currently selling the rights to new and roads that were originally toll roads but are already paid for by the public to private companies to operate for profit. Oh yes, if they fail to mail the bill for the automated toll booths to your proper address, they can act as though they were a government entity and issue a warrant for your arrest for the unpaid bill. Imagine if you had a dispute with AT&T over your phone bill and they could send the sheriff to your door to take you to jail. The NTTA has already done this.
Oh yes, the government has not reduced the tax rate for roads even after these companies have bought the roads and charge you to drive on them.
So no, I don't think the government needs any more taxes or their fingers more firmly entrenched into any area of our country my sarcastic friend.
Title: Re: Tipping thread (who do you tip/don't tip)
Post by: Duster on May 22, 2013, 03:00:27 am
Yeah, and if you cant afford to buy a band-shirt you cant afford to go on a concert or what?
Oh wait, that comparison isnt really good because when I buy a band-shirt, I get actual value, while a tip is just something I give to someone that has just fullfilled the service I was paying for in the first place.
So basically it would be like giving the guy you just bought a band-shirt from more money for selling you the shirt.
Maybe it´s just the cultural difference and probably we wont ever get to an agreement in this discussion acceptable for both, but I have stated my opinion and I find that most people I meet in my country share it.
I was speaking as an American in America, where the accepted standard is that the waiter takes care of you, and you tip the waiter. Because it's their income. What's sad is that people have the same attitude as you, but they live in America.
Title: Re: Tipping thread (who do you tip/don't tip)
Post by: Leesin on May 22, 2013, 06:58:58 am
Here's a free tip. Don't eat in places where tips are expected as part of the service. Eat at McDonald's or a cafeteria where they don't. Or eat at home. You aren't forced to eat at those establishments. It is part of the business practice in the U.S. and you are well aware of it. Case in point, depending upon the restaurant, they automatically add a 15% gratuity on parties larger than X number of people. Why? Because their servers are being taxed on a percentage of your bill and while being stiffed by a single person doesn't hurt that much, larger tables do. And yes, it is called being stiffed. The only reason you should walk out without paying an appropriate tip is when the waiter simply didn't service your table properly, e.g. you were constantly without a drink refill, your food came out cold, etc. Otherwise you are just as much a douche as you make the people out to be who expect you to follow the common expected business model.
But they can't force you to tip, expecting people who have nothing to do with the business to follow the "expected business model" is a joke, tips are a privilege, not a right, you've got to earn those tips and people shouldn't expect to get them or a specific %, they should be thankful they got them at all considering it is down to ones own free will whether they leave a tip or not. A free tip to that shitty "business model" if that's what you call it, get real, pay the waiters more money because relying on tips is good as not having a job.
Title: Re: Tipping thread (who do you tip/don't tip)
Post by: B3RS3RK on May 22, 2013, 07:09:45 am
Seriously, you don't understand what you would get if you got your way. You are asking to be fucked in the ass with a bristle brush.
Okay, so why does it work in europe, then?
Instead of insinsting on this kind of makeshift approach on the topic, the whole system should be revamped.
But really, whatever.I don´t live in the US so I already care much more than I should. It seems that most people who gew up to this practice are fine with it, so be it.
My main problem with the System is that, all over the world, by law and by custom, when you buy something, it´s yours.There´s a price tag on things and services, and if you pay that price, you will get that object or service.To take something like tips for granted or act like it´s mandatory while it is not rooted in actual law is irrational.
As I already said, it is probably only cultural difference why we have such a different opinion on this topic, so, to each his own now.I know if things like that started to get customary in germany, I would act against it.
Title: Re: Tipping thread (who do you tip/don't tip)
Post by: chadz on May 22, 2013, 07:47:57 am
Having a debate about tips is (from my experience) usually getting very hot if US is amongst themselves.
Add some euros to the discussion and it's not moving anywhere.
US and EU is completely different, there's no purpose at all in comparing.
From what I understand, in the US, waiters need the tip to survive. And the tip isn't really a tip, it's a more or less fixed percentage that you can't decide yourself. I've also heard that restaurants will not let you leave if you do not pay a tip. Literally stop you from walking out if you don't pay a tip. It's basically a tax on food, just without a legal background, just a social one.
In (most places in) the EU, the waiters get a shitty wage as well, but enough to make a living. When you don't give a tip, most waiters will ignore it, some will be slightly weird, but rarely does one say something.
In the end, I think the cost is the same in both EU and US (relatively speaking).
As for my personal tipping: I tip usually around 1€, for guys that deliver food to my flat, for my favorite diners where they serve exceptionally good food, and when going out and the service was at least ok. If I feel the waiter didn't really care, I don't tip.
Title: Re: Tipping thread (who do you tip/don't tip)
Post by: Mala on May 22, 2013, 08:27:12 am
... Under your system you couldn't. Then it would result in the employee paying more to the government in taxes because they would pay exactly what the employer reports that they are paying them, which would be less than good waiters and waitresses make under the current system.
... The employer would have to pay more in matching social security and medicaid taxes, but not much and they would ...
Umm, this will backfire later. If you and your employer pay less in social security, then you get less in return when you need it.
Title: Re: Tipping thread (who do you tip/don't tip)
Post by: dynamike on May 22, 2013, 03:02:25 pm
I'm a German living in the US and what pisses me off is that because waiters do not earn a sufficient basic salary, tipping has lost its meaning of "giving extra to appreciate quality service".
Now everyone feels entitled to it (+ needs the tips to make a living) and gets pissed off if you tip less to show your displeasure with the service you have received.
Again, not the waiters' fault - but the system sucks.
Title: Re: Tipping thread (who do you tip/don't tip)
Post by: Rumblood on May 22, 2013, 11:49:25 pm
I'm a German living in the US and what pisses me off is that because waiters do not earn a sufficient basic salary, tipping has lost its meaning of "giving extra to appreciate quality service".
Now everyone feels entitled to it (+ needs the tips to make a living) and gets pissed off if you tip less to show your displeasure with the service you have received.
Again, not the waiters' fault - but the system sucks.
No, the waiters know when they've received a good tip and appreciate the gesture.
Title: Re: Tipping thread (who do you tip/don't tip)
Post by: Kafein on May 23, 2013, 03:15:18 am
Umm, this will backfire later. If you and your employer pay less in social security, then you get less in return when you need it.
If you as an average citizen pay less in social security, the money you save is millions of times larger than what you would get out of that same amount of money through any social security you might need. As long as no real disputes occur, everybody involved profits from black market transactions.