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Off Topic => Historical Discussion => Topic started by: Panos on May 19, 2013, 01:04:34 am

Title: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Panos on May 19, 2013, 01:04:34 am
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_genocide



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Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Leshma on May 19, 2013, 01:19:09 am
Are you going to claim this is Ataturk's doing, like you did in previous thread?
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Panos on May 19, 2013, 01:24:58 am
No leshma, of course I won`t.

Pontian-Greeks and Armenians, killed themselves.
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Leshma on May 19, 2013, 01:54:18 am
I'm not saying that. But you should read wiki article you linked. Ataturk isn't responsible for any of mentioned genocides. He came to power after that happened.
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Panos on May 19, 2013, 01:58:13 am
I'm not saying that. But you should read wiki article you linked. Ataturk isn't responsible for any of mentioned genocides. He came to power after that happened.

I never said that Ataturk commited those genocides  :?


he just gave the orders
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: the real god emperor on May 19, 2013, 08:08:29 am
I never said that Ataturk commited those genocides  :?


he just gave the orders

Hah :D if those happened, that was in OE, i give no fucks :D
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Uther Pendragon on May 19, 2013, 09:58:55 pm
Oh look, people talking about which nation is booboo bad mean and which is the martyr saint dumb-but-victim AGAIN?
Who would've expected that! X nation thinks that the PERSON was good, but WE, Y nation, know that HE was MEAN!

And yes, while the denial of those genocides and arguing that "LESS people died, the numbers are lying" is just dumb, because no matter how many people have died, it's STILL HAPPENED.


From the first video, "... any remains were quickly discarded by the contractors in a nearby river" Wow, really? Can't think how fucked up your mentality must be to throw decades old corpses into the river without any earlier research done.
Also, from your article
Quote
Article 142 of the 1920 Treaty of Sèvres, prepared after the first World War, called the Turkish regime "terrorist" and contained provisions "to repair so far as possible the wrongs inflicted on individuals in the course of the massacres perpetrated in Turkey during the war."[54] The Treaty of Sèvres was never ratified by the Turkish government and ultimately was replaced by the Treaty of Lausanne. That treaty was accompanied by a "Declaration of Amnesty", without containing any provision in respect to punishment of war crimes.
From what I've read and saw, 90% of governments during any ongoing civil wars just put down most of the foreign pacts and treaties, so its not a surprise for me that they denied signing the first one. And no one likes to pay war reparations, if it wasn't even a full war. But that they offered them an Amnesty? What the fuck

Quote
In 1916, Emanuel Efendi, a Ottoman deputy, said that "550,000 Greeks... were killed."
They acknowledge the killings, but they don't agree to call them genocides, is that the reason you're making those threads Panos? Because if you just expect some arguments other than "I don't care lol" from the turks, don't expect it :lol:

EDIT: Fun fact, when you google "Greek genocides", it leads you to this article Pancake posted. When you google "Turkish genocides", it gives you list of genocides CAUSED BY turks :lol:
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: the real god emperor on May 19, 2013, 10:29:34 pm
Well, if i had time, i could ve shown proofs of Greeks killed lots of innocent Turkish citizens in İzmir or how English army forced Turkish war prisoners to get in acid water.But this is the internet, and i love you guys. Better do not open the kind of "genocide" threads. Not because i care but, somehow it disturbs me :P
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Casimir on May 20, 2013, 03:03:22 am
I see no point in arguing over the crimes of people a century ago. Awareness is good,  anger only leads to more damage.
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Herkkutatti666 on May 20, 2013, 03:13:06 am
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Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Sultan Eren on May 20, 2013, 03:36:31 am
Greek killed Troy's people by a trick. That's not fair man!
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Havoco on May 20, 2013, 04:02:03 am
Where iz turkE?
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: zagibu on May 20, 2013, 02:42:15 pm
I still don't understand why those sandrats fight at all? Are they envious because their neighbours have more sand?
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: the real god emperor on May 20, 2013, 03:26:48 pm
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Oh god lol  :lol:
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Molly on May 20, 2013, 03:32:41 pm
...still searching for the point of this thread.
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Leshma on May 20, 2013, 03:37:08 pm
I think it has something to do with Golden Dawn.
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Herkkutatti666 on May 20, 2013, 05:05:28 pm
Oh god lol  :lol:
it is written by turk
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: the real god emperor on May 20, 2013, 05:47:08 pm
it is written by turk

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Herkkutatti666 on May 20, 2013, 06:18:30 pm
(click to show/hide)
who is actually a kurt

(he even vocarood that with his epic turk accent)
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Panos on May 20, 2013, 07:40:33 pm
Greek killed Troy's people by a trick. That's not fair man!

Are you retarded?? The troy war never happened, although Troy did exist in Turkey, the war never happened.


...still searching for the point of this thread.


This is the historical discussion section of the forum, if you don`t want to read it, then don`t.

As I respect your anti-YMCA crusade and , I expect you to show the same respect to my unjust slaughter of my fellow PontiacGreeks by Ataturk.


And yes, I`m really touchy when it comes to genocides against Greeks.
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Leshma on May 20, 2013, 08:29:22 pm
Are you retarded?? The troy war never happened, although Troy did exist in Turkey, the war never happened.

Is that a historical fact?
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Panos on May 20, 2013, 08:33:40 pm
Is that a historical fact?

Some historians believe that it neber happened, and some that it did.
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Dezilagel on May 20, 2013, 08:41:08 pm
Aaand, since no member of the one, true, pure and GLORIOUS Greek master race has ever has done anything bad it couldn't possibly have happened right?

Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Paul on May 20, 2013, 11:12:21 pm
The Greek literally invented butthurt but then weren't in the political position to do anything bad for centuries. I am sure they would have loved to though. History put them at the receiving end - who knows what they would have done if they have had the opportunity to. Turks would spam the forum about those atrocities and Panos would call them little sissies for complaining about it.
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: zagibu on May 20, 2013, 11:15:09 pm
The Greek literally invented butthurt but then weren't in the political position to do anything bad for centuries. I am sure they would have loved to though. History put them at the receiving end - who knows what they would have done if they have had the opportunity to.

I think we would be around 2700 years in the future.
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Panos on May 20, 2013, 11:26:45 pm
Aaand, since no member of the one, true, pure and GLORIOUS Greek master race has ever has done anything bad it couldn't possibly have happened right?

Point me towards one please.

The Greek literally invented butthurt but then weren't in the political position to do anything bad for centuries. I am sure they would have loved to though. History put them at the receiving end - who knows what they would have done if they have had the opportunity to. Turks would spam the forum about those atrocities and Panos would call them little sissies for complaining about it.

Yeah you`re right Paul, shame on us! Shame on us indeed, for never having a mass murderer as our leader, shame on us for not burning people in ovens, shame on us for not causing 2 WW`s (yes I know the first one was caused by Austrians, but in the end, it`s the same).

Greeks never did something so bad, that could leave a stain, get over it. If Greeks were in political position that could do major changes, chances are that the world would be a lot better than it is now.
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Paul on May 20, 2013, 11:53:54 pm
I actually think you really believe that. It shows how close the minds of Turkish and Greece people are. This is a stage the people of most European countries fortunately managed step beyond, painfully through the ordeal of the two mentioned world wars. I just hope it doesn't take the same for your countries.
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Franke on May 21, 2013, 04:47:24 pm
If Greeks were in political position that could do major changes, chances are that the world would be a lot better than it is now.

I lol'd.

To be more serious, neither you nor me can say what would have happened in history if ....

Power corrupts people and makes them commit atrocities in order to keep that power. WWI caused a lot of radical social and political changes in countries like Turkey, Russia or Germany. All of these changes came with atrocities and massacres in order to keep one group of the population weak or even to eradicate it (in Turkey as you stated, what Lenin and Stalin did in Russia, and of course what the Nutsies did in Germany and what the Germans did in occupied Europe). But also the "civilized" western nations like the UK, France or the USA all had their small genocieds against one or the other group of natives. Even a seemingly peaceful people like the Belgians committed massacres against the natives in Central Africa.

I do not want to justify any of these actions and I also do not want to say that the Greeks are a nation of potential mass murderers. All I want to say is that there are no "good" peoples and "bad" peoples. There are just good and bad men.
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Ronin on May 21, 2013, 05:03:33 pm
I do not want to justify any of these actions and I also do not want to say that the Greeks are a nation of potential mass murderers. All I want to say is that there are no "good" peoples and "bad" peoples. There are just good and bad men.
Yes. But Turks are more good. İslam is peace religion.
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Panos on May 21, 2013, 05:04:06 pm
Sorry buddy, but from 2000 bc and up until 1450, Greeks were the only ones who did revolutionary things.

And yes, I strongly believe that if Greeks were in a more powerful position, the world would be 10 times better. I don`t support that because I`m a Greek, I support this because history proves that Greeks invented all major things in this world.

Hell, chances are that, if it weren`t the Greeks, most European countries would still have monarchy .


Ronin : Please tell me that you are joking..
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Molly on May 21, 2013, 05:06:45 pm
[...]If Greeks were in political position that could do major changes, chances are that the world would be a lot better than it is now.
Considering that you can't even keep your own country running, I don't even wanna image what could happen if Greece had the power to influence all of Europe.
Probably we would be all hunting pigeons in the street as food...  :D

Sorry buddy, but from 2000 bc and up until 1450, Greeks were the only ones who did revolutionary things.

And yes, I strongly believe that if Greeks were in a more powerful position, the world would be 10 times better. I don`t support that because I`m a Greek, I support this because history proves that Greeks invented all major things in this world.

Hell, chances are that, if it weren`t the Greeks, most European countries would still have monarchy .


Ronin : Please tell me that you are joking..
Yea, fuck all the high cultures that existed in that timeframe!
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Ronin on May 21, 2013, 05:08:05 pm
Ronin : Please tell me that you are joking..
Fuke you Gayreek

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Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Panos on May 21, 2013, 05:14:29 pm
Considering that you can't even keep your own country running, I don't even wanna image what could happen if Greece had the power to influence all of Europe.
Probably we would be all hunting pigeons in the street as food...  :D
Yea, fuck all the high cultures that existed in that timeframe!

Oh you`re right, because now that Germany has the power to influence all of Europe, things are 1000 times better. At least for you guys.

All of the cultures that co-existed along with the Greek, was either Monarchies or Oligarchies.

Oh my GOD, even the words Monarchy and Oligarchy are Greeks  :wink:
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Casimir on May 21, 2013, 05:28:18 pm
Because there were Greek monarchies and oligarchies.
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Panos on May 21, 2013, 05:29:20 pm
Because there were Greek monarchies and oligarchies.

With the only difference that when monarchies existed in Greece, Greece was city states, and not one nation.
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Casimir on May 21, 2013, 05:30:44 pm
To lazy to unify you own lands so you went and invaded others. GG.
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Prinz_Karl on May 22, 2013, 02:26:08 am
Sorry buddy, but from 2000 bc and up until 1450, Greeks were the only ones who did revolutionary things.

And yes, I strongly believe that if Greeks were in a more powerful position, the world would be 10 times better. I don`t support that because I`m a Greek, I support this because history proves that Greeks invented all major things in this world.

Hell, chances are that, if it weren`t the Greeks, most European countries would still have monarchy .

They invented the democracy and revolutionary ideas which made them to the most advanced thinkers of ancient times. Anyway you shouldn't see democracy as an invention which didn't find its way up to Europe in the Middle Age and thus never happened there. It was rather the position the people were situated in which made a Revolution not possible yet. You can't compare Greece with other Europe states of the MA, the religion made progresses not possible there, "the King was chosen by god". I want to say that different situations lead to different developements. But don't say things the Greeks invented the democracy, without that invention there would be still monarchies. Democracy is a natural progress in history which is based on the willingness of people to make a change.
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Paul on May 22, 2013, 08:47:15 am
Well, let's hope it doesn't get to Germany really running things again.

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Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Panos on May 22, 2013, 09:20:04 am
They invented the democracy and revolutionary ideas which made them to the most advanced thinkers of ancient times. Anyway you shouldn't see democracy as an invention which didn't find its way up to Europe in the Middle Age and thus never happened there. It was rather the position the people were situated in which made a Revolution not possible yet. You can't compare Greece with other Europe states of the MA, the religion made progresses not possible there, "the King was chosen by god". I want to say that different situations lead to different developements. But don't say things the Greeks invented the democracy, without that invention there would be still monarchies. Democracy is a natural progress in history which is based on the willingness of people to make a change.

But the Athenians were the first one worldwide that had democracy  :?

And why wouldn`t I compare Greece to other countries?? Greece/Byz Empire was a very religious country aswell, not ruled by the Pope, but the Patriarch had very big influence aswell.

Democracy is a progress in history which is based on the way Athenians used to live. Even the word Democracy is Greek, so please don`t try to tell me that democracy was something that would occur natural to the rest of Europe.

Especially when the biggest countries (France & Germany) establised democracy on the 19th-20th century. Even the les lumières revolution, was based on the ancient Greeks and the way they used to live..   :wink:
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Molly on May 22, 2013, 12:37:50 pm
We used to be awesome.

Now I have to tell everyone else what we used to be cuz it's just a huge pile of crap today  :cry:
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Casimir on May 22, 2013, 01:04:05 pm
British parliament is descended from the ancient Germanic tradition of wartime council. Magna carta and all that established the legal requirement for the monarchy to consult the nobility.  Although not strictly adhered to for the follow 3 centuries every monarch was required to call parliaments and eventually the enfranchisement spread to more members of society. This was a form of democracy, and it wasn't based on Athenian democracy.

To say that all democracy stems from Greece is incorrect,  such traditions such as this prove that concepts of democracy can be found in civilisations that would have had ni knowledge of Athenian democracy.
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Panos on May 22, 2013, 01:05:15 pm

A people without the knowledge of their past history, origin and culture is like a tree without roots.

Marcus Garvey

I`m proud for my country`s history, something that you Germans will never have  :wink:


Edit for Cas: Magna Carta was signed in the 13th Century, Greeks had democracy for over 15 centuries  :lol:
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Casimir on May 22, 2013, 01:15:25 pm
So what, it's in no way linked to Greek democracy. Many early civilisations are likely to have had a form of democracy simply records do not survive.

As I said it stems from an ancient Germanic tradition that could easily predate the existence of Athens. Magna carta simply enshrined in law traditions that already existed in effect.
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Leshma on May 22, 2013, 01:21:06 pm
Germans are proud too, they are the ones who ended Roman Empire... (in flames)

Btw. whenever a country gets in a deep shit people start acting like you are acting recently, Panos. When my country went from being decent to shithole, all of a sudden people started thinking how they are special (Serbs are sky people, don't you know that?), mentioning great conquests that happened more than 500 years ago, blah, blah, blah...

Only uneducated people tend to act like this, but there's so damn many of them...

In every country that is going through rough times, nationalism and racism show their ugly head sooner or later. And parties like Golden Dawn come to power. In the 90s we had Serbian Radical Party which had same "ideology" as your beloved Golden Dawn, just replace Greeks with Serbians. Now they have transformed into biggest proponent of European Union...
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Panos on May 22, 2013, 01:28:17 pm
Being a patriot does not make you a racist.

I`m sick and tired of all those anti-nationalist idiots all around Europe, we have a lot of anarchists here in Greece aswell, rich boys hailing from the richest families of Greece.

At the end, I prefer being an uneducated nationalist, rather a spoiled wannabe yuppie anarchist.

And I don`t get it, why should nationalism be a bad thing??

If  someone claims that he`s a communist or an anarchist, everyone is acting like it`s something normal, while on the other hand, if you claim that you are a nationalist, you`re instantly shunned.
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Leshma on May 22, 2013, 01:38:07 pm
I`m sick and tired of all those anti-nationalist idiots all around Europe

Quote
USA: Constitution
UK: BNP
Germany: Freedom
Israel: National Union
Canada: Christian Heritage
Australia: Family First
Denmark: Danish People's Party
Italy: Tricolour Flame
Russia: National Democratic Alliance (nazdem.info)
France: National Front
Ireland: Sinn Fein
Switzerland: SVP
Austria: FPO/FPK
Sweden: Sweden Democrats
Estonia: Estonian Independence
Netherlands: Party for Freedom
Poland: National Revival (for the lulz)
Spain: Republican Social Movement
New Zealand: New Zealand First
Greece: Golden Dawn (just because of mining)
Finland: True Finns
Taiwan: Kuomintang
Serbia: Serbian Radical Party
Belgium: Vlaams Belang
Portugal: National Renovator
Ukraine: Svoboda
Bulgaria: ATAKA
Slovenia: Slovenian National
Czech Republic: National Party
Croatia: Croatian Party of Rights
Romania: Greater Romania Party
Lebanon: Kataeb

As you can see, there are parties like Golden Dawn all over the world. The difference is, that in well functioning countries they have zero influence. And vice versa, in troubled countries they are gaining power over time (the longer country is in poor state, the more power they gain). Also, history teach us that these parties rarely stay true to their ideas when they gain power. They are usually bigger sellouts than leftists.
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Panos on May 22, 2013, 01:45:09 pm
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Although a bit outdated, you`ll get the idea.
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Casimir on May 22, 2013, 01:47:56 pm
Final confirmation that the Swiss are chocolate chip cookies!!111
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Panos on May 22, 2013, 01:50:13 pm
Final confirmation that the Swiss are chocolate chip cookies!!111

Being a nationalist doesnt mean that you are a chocolate chip cookie     :?



http://www.rieas.gr/research-areas/illegal-immigration/1967-immigration-to-greece-april-2013-.html

 

Quote
Foreigners constitute 63% of Greece’s prison inmates

The fact that on January 1st, 2013 foreigners constituted 63% of the inmates in Greek prisons is another indication of the link between illegal immigration and serious crime.


Not only we have to deal with our economical crisis, we also have to deal with illigal immigrants and their actions.
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Casimir on May 22, 2013, 01:53:33 pm
It does in Switzerland!
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Paul on May 22, 2013, 02:09:46 pm
If Panos was clever he would mention the real gift the Greek(apart from butthurt) gave to the world: scientific method as a philosophical foundation.
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Panos on May 22, 2013, 02:13:39 pm
If Panos was clever he would mention  ONE OF  the real gifts the Greek(apart from butthurt) gave to the world: scientific method as a philosophical foundation.

 :wink:
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Berserkadin on May 22, 2013, 03:06:36 pm
Time to make a thread about the Rwandan genocide? Belgs putting two groups of people against each other, shit's hit the fan and hutus starts massacring tutsis. The west don't give a fuck, France even depart some soldiers to help the hutu-regime slaughtering a whole people, in the war against communism, and well, France sold weapons to the Hutu-regime. 800k people, alot of women and children hacked to pieces with machetes, the conflict arose from the makings of European nations since the colonial times. And well, UN could have saved alot those civilians but wth, they're only africans, why would we give a fuck eh?
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Molly on May 22, 2013, 04:57:11 pm
yea, yea... Greece is actually awesome and it's everyone else's fault, namely and especially Germany, that the place is a dump now.

Is that what you're trying to say, Panos?

And I actually know a few reasons to be "technically" proud of Germany, like being world wide the first country with social and health insurances. Or some of the most important artists in the world being German (Goethe, Schiller, Brahms, Bach, Mozart). Or some of the most important scientists in the world like Einstein, Zuse, Junkers, Daimler and Benz, Reis, Diesel and the discoverer of book pressing Gutenberg... and list goes on and on.
Granted there are like 15 to 20 years which were really bad. Other than that, Germany is pretty awesome and if you'd make a list, Germany would easily beat Greece when it comes to the importance of discoveries.

I just choose to not be proud cuz I think the whole idea of "Nationality" is garbage. I consider myself Human... keep being Greek and live in the past of you like. I choose to be here and now.
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Franke on May 22, 2013, 05:15:41 pm
I`m proud for my country`s history, something that you Germans will never have  :wink:
Edit for Cas: Magna Carta was signed in the 13th Century, Greeks had democracy for over 15 centuries  :lol:

I'm again trying to make a reasonable argument though quotes like the one above should teach me better.

 German history does not solely exist of the twelve years between 1933 and 1945, you know. It's obvious that those years were the darkest episode of German history and no German with at least a little bit of brains would feel "pride" for these years (feeling pride for something that can absolutely not be influenced by yourself like being born in this or that country is a bit weird in my eyes anyway). But this does not mean that Germans have achieved nothing at all.

What Casimir wanted to state was that the English form of Democracy was developing completely INDEPENTLY from the Attic democracy. It came around 1500 years later, so what?

If I remember history class correctly, the Attic democracy excluded women, Slaves and Metics (μετοίκων) from the benefits of democracy. Not all that perfect, don't you think?

Edit: I do regard myself as a German patriot. I kinda "love" my country but still respect other people and their patriotism, too. A nationalist in my eyes however has a chauvinistic view on the world ("my country is the best - all others are pieces of shit"). Maybe that'S just the difference between us...
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Christo on May 22, 2013, 05:31:51 pm
If I remember history class correctly, the Attic democracy excluded women, Slaves and Metics (μετοίκων) from the benefits of democracy. Not all that perfect, don't you think?

This.

So-called democracy wasn't that nice and equal, they were discriminative like hell, fighting among themselves so bigger empires could easily absorb the Greeks.

Don't throw stones at me Panos, but that's what history shows.
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: [ptx] on May 22, 2013, 06:25:24 pm
Germans have had, starting from the middle ages to this day, ūber military technology and tradition - and at times they've even used it. English actually made an empire, that spanned the world. Italians are somewhat related to Romans, right? Russkies had the entire western world scared of the Red. Balts occupied most of north-eastern Europe and remained the last free pagan people in Europe. French revolution brought the ideas of enlightenment throughout Europe, as they kicked the asses of everyone around them. I'm sure the spanish did some things too.

Yes, greeks are surely the only ones with any history. Except you've been pretty much out of the picture for the last couple thousand years.
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Prinz_Karl on May 22, 2013, 06:32:51 pm
Democracy is a progress in history which is based on the way Athenians used to live. Even the word Democracy is Greek, so please don`t try to tell me that democracy was something that would occur natural to the rest of Europe.

At the time the (sorry) Athenians introduced democracy there wasn't the same religion as in those other countries nothing that would block it. Democracy isn't a kind of invention you mean, it is a governmental system in that the people rule. When in Germany the first Democracy established, its idea wasn't based on the Athenian democracy, only because they introduced a term that translates to "rule of people".

I`m proud for my country`s history, something that you Germans will never have  :wink:

Panos I see that there is so much wrong in what you're saying and I also see your nationalistic behaviour, something which makes you useless to understand other peoples history and warps the view on your own.

I could tell you now why Germany has actually a history (ofcourse it has) in detail but I'm going to keep it shortly. The fact that a nation is born as soon as people identify as a community makes Germany a country and the idea of one nation existed longer then you believe. I can name the battle on Lechfeld for example, Bavarians, Saxons and other german speaking duchies found together to fight the menace from the outside. The germans have a history, altough it took very long to unite the germans as one nation.
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Ginosaji on May 22, 2013, 06:58:18 pm
Uh-uh... those austrians ain't taking crediit for that!

THE PRUSSIANS TALKED US INTO THAT! :(


Oh, and HitIer was German. Never forget that
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Panos on May 22, 2013, 07:42:01 pm
Time to make a thread about the Rwandan genocide? Belgs putting two groups of people against each other, shit's hit the fan and hutus starts massacring tutsis. The west don't give a fuck, France even depart some soldiers to help the hutu-regime slaughtering a whole people, in the war against communism, and well, France sold weapons to the Hutu-regime. 800k people, alot of women and children hacked to pieces with machetes, the conflict arose from the makings of European nations since the colonial times. And well, UN could have saved alot those civilians but wth, they're only africans, why would we give a fuck eh?

I couldn`t care less for what happened to Rwanda, I care only for what happens in my country


yea, yea... Greece is actually awesome and it's everyone else's fault, namely and especially Germany, that the place is a dump now.

Is that what you're trying to say, Panos?

And I actually know a few reasons to be "technically" proud of Germany, like being world wide the first country with social and health insurances. Or some of the most important artists in the world being German (Goethe, Schiller, Brahms, Bach, Mozart). Or some of the most important scientists in the world like Einstein, Zuse, Junkers, Daimler and Benz, Reis, Diesel and the discoverer of book pressing Gutenberg... and list goes on and on.
Granted there are like 15 to 20 years which were really bad. Other than that, Germany is pretty awesome and if you'd make a list, Germany would easily beat Greece when it comes to the importance of discoveries.

I just choose to not be proud cuz I think the whole idea of "Nationality" is garbage. I consider myself Human... keep being Greek and live in the past of you like. I choose to be here and now.

I never blamed anyone about Greece`s current situation buddy, bad choices made by Greeks brough Greece to her knees.

maps
the thermometer
the lock (doorlock)
central heating
Archimedes screw
Cranes
Screws
Gears
Pipe Organs
Odometers
Wheelbarrows
Showers
Columns
Democrocy
Analog Computers ( the Antikythera mechanism )
Olympic games
Anchor
Astronomy
Philoshophy
Medicine
Drama
Art
Maths
Geometry
Algebra



Socrates - First of the great Greek Philosophers. He is considered by many to be the founder of Western philosophy.
Plato - Student of Socrates. He wrote many dialogues using Socrates as a major character. He also founded the Academy in Athens.
Aristotle - Student of Plato. Aristotle was a philosopher and scientist. He was interested in the physical world. He was also teacher to Alexander the Great.
Aeschylus - A Greek playwright, he is considered the father of the tragedy.
Sophocles - Sophocles was probably the most popular playwright during Greek times. He won many writing competitions and is thought to have written over 100 plays.
Euripides - The last of the great Greek tragedy writers, Euripides was unique in that he used strong women characters and intelligent slaves.
Aristophanes - A Greek playwright who wrote comedies, he is considered the father of the comedy.
Aesop - Aesop's fables were known for both talking animals as well as teaching a moral. Historians aren't 100% sure if Aesop really existed or was just a fable himself.
Hesiod - Hesiod wrote a book that was about Greek rural life called Works and Days. This helped historians to understand what the daily life for the average Greek person was like. He also wrote Theogany, which explained a lot about Greek Mythology.
Homer - Homer was the most famous of the Greek epic poets. He wrote the epic poems the Iliad and the Odyssey.
Pindar - Pindar is considered the greatest of the nine lyric poets of Ancient Greece. He is most known today for his odes.
Sappho - One of the great lyric poets, she wrote romantic poetry that was very popular in her day.
Greek Historians
Herodotus - A historian who chronicled the Persian Wars, Herodotus is often called the Father of History.
Thucydides - A great Greek historian who was known for the exact science of his research, he wrote about the war between Athens and Sparta.
Archimedes - He is considered one of the great mathematicians and scientists in history. He made many discoveries both in math and physics including many inventions.
Aristarchus - An astronomer and mathematician, Aristarchus was the first to put the sun at the center of the known universe rather than the Earth.
Euclid - The Father of Geometry, Euclid wrote a book called Elements, likely the the most famous mathematical textbook in history.
Hippocrates - A scientist of medicine, Hippocrates is called the Father of Western Medicine. Doctors still take the Hippocratic Oath today.
Pythagoras - A scientist and philosopher, he came up with the Pythagorean Theorem still used today in much of geometry.
Alexander the Great - Often called the greatest military commander in history, Alexander expanded the Greek empire to its greatest size, never losing a battle.
Cleisthenes - Called the Father of Athenian Democracy, Cleisthenes helped to reform the constitution so the democracy could work for all.
Demosthenes - A great statesman, Demosthenes was considered the greatest orator (speech giver) of Greek times.
Draco - Famous for his Draconian law that made many offences punishable by death.
Pericles - A leader and statesman during the golden age of Greece. He helped democracy to flourish and led great building projects in Athens that still survive today.
Solon - Solon is usually credited with laying the foundations and ideas for democracy.

All of those scientists that you mentioned, their studies are based on ANCIENT GREEK studies.


"But I have never gone away from them. How can an educated person stay away from the Greeks? I have always been far more interested in them than in science." - Albert Einstein


We can do this all day, and in the end, under a stone you`ll always find something that reminds Greece.

Living in a shithole modern Greece, I only can found comfort in my ancestors achievements, I`m not closed minded, I just really despise the way that Greece evolved to.


I'm again trying to make a reasonable argument though quotes like the one above should teach me better.

 German history does not solely exist of the twelve years between 1933 and 1945, you know. It's obvious that those years were the darkest episode of German history and no German with at least a little bit of brains would feel "pride" for these years (feeling pride for something that can absolutely not be influenced by yourself like being born in this or that country is a bit weird in my eyes anyway). But this does not mean that Germans have achieved nothing at all.

What Casimir wanted to state was that the English form of Democracy was developing completely INDEPENTLY from the Attic democracy. It came around 1500 years later, so what?

If I remember history class correctly, the Attic democracy excluded women, Slaves and Metics (μετοίκων) from the benefits of democracy. Not all that perfect, don't you think?

Edit: I do regard myself as a German patriot. I kinda "love" my country but still respect other people and their patriotism, too. A nationalist in my eyes however has a chauvinistic view on the world ("my country is the best - all others are pieces of shit"). Maybe that'S just the difference between us...

You`re wrong buddy, women and slaves couldn`t vote, and that was it, but on the other hand they had other privileges, for example women could educate themselves, and a slave could have his own property and his own slaves.

At that time it wasn`t perfect, but as soon as Pericles took over Greece, women had rights equal to men.

I`m not trying to underestimate Germany, I couldn`t care less, but it`s my right to claim that Greece has/had the greatest history of this world.


Germans have had, starting from the middle ages to this day, ūber military technology and tradition - and at times they've even used it. English actually made an empire, that spanned the world. Italians are somewhat related to Romans, right? Russkies had the entire western world scared of the Red. Balts occupied most of north-eastern Europe and remained the last free pagan people in Europe. French revolution brought the ideas of enlightenment throughout Europe, as they kicked the asses of everyone around them. I'm sure the spanish did some things too.

Yes, greeks are surely the only ones with any history. Except you've been pretty much out of the picture for the last couple thousand years.


Is this some kind of joke??

Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Prinz_Karl on May 22, 2013, 07:53:54 pm
You want to go this way? Well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_German_inventions_and_discoveries

Your list is looking very little compared to that.
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Molly on May 22, 2013, 07:54:39 pm
[...]
...but it`s my right to claim that Greece has/had the greatest history of this world.
You can claim as much as you want, doesn't make the statement correct, mate.
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Herkkutatti666 on May 22, 2013, 07:55:38 pm
You want to go this way? Well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_German_inventions_and_discoveries

Your list is looking very little compared to that.
German inventions
"Jews can be used on a soap"
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Panos on May 22, 2013, 07:57:01 pm
You want to go this way? Well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_German_inventions_and_discoveries

Your list is looking very little compared to that.


Most of the german "inventions" are a modern version of the Greek ones.

Please..  :lol:
Title: Re: Pontic Genocide
Post by: Panos on May 22, 2013, 07:58:04 pm
Anyways, gonna lock this thread.

German is the master race and will always be.

Had fun GG k thx BB