cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Panoply on May 15, 2013, 07:35:00 am
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If you didn't read past the first two words of the subject line, I'm not suggesting we buff 2hs. I'm talking about buffing longswords, heavy bastard swords, bastard swords, and possibly morningstars when used with shields.
Currently, my understanding is that using these weapons in 1h mode gives something like a 30-35% (correct me if I'm wrong) decrease to both speed and damage. This is a HUGE penalty. Consider the heavy bastard sword:
In 2h mode, it has 100 speed and 36 cut. In 1h mode, it has closer to 65 speed and 23 cut. This gives it the damage of a peasant knife, and the speed of a turtle with palsy. For comparison, this makes it the slowest weapon out there, losing to the pike with a 68 speed and long maul with 70 speed, and far slower than the slowest 1h weapon, the military hammer, at 94 speed. It's very easy to get spammed using these weapons with a shield.
Now, these weapons generally have longer ranges than 1h weapons, but not by much. I don't want to make these op by any stretch, I'm ok with them still being mildly inferior choices as 1h weapons, but I do believe that they should at least be viable choices. Longswords and bastard swords were historically designed such that they could be used as both 1h and 2h weapons. With the current stats, there is really no reason to ever use them as a 1h weapon and I think this should change.
I'm more concerned about the speed than the damage, and I think something closer to a 10% speed penalty would be more appropriate. That would put the HBS at 90 speed, still slower than every other 1h weapon.
I believe in the past that this issue couldn't be resolved because it was hardcoded? I'm hoping now that we have the magical and awesome WSE, something can finally be done about this.
Conflict of interest: I declare a personal conflict of interest in that I love using the heavy bastard sword and it saddens me that it's laughably ineffective as a 1h weapon.
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I agree. It'd be nice if it scaled with strength or agility in some way so that you could decrease the amount of the penalty as well via those methods.
The simpler way would be your method though if its possible. Be nice to be able to use those weapons somewhat effectively with a shield.
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It's the semi-annual Aristeia appearance! Quick, distract him so he doesn't notice his shadow. Also, I agree with what you said and think that one hand mode on those weapons should be possible without a shield as well (with the malus ofc).
I miss you
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I agree with this. Longsword is just 1 point longer than arabian, for example. When used with shield, it is ridiculously slow and weak. Same goes for others. I honestly don't see the reason why you wouldn't put in an effort and come up with some reasonable stats. Unless this ratio of 1h/2h is somehow hardcoded and can't be changed.
But please don't make katana 1h weapon!
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I agree with this. Longsword is just 1 point longer than arabian, for example. When used with shield, it is ridiculously slow and weak. Same goes for others. I honestly don't see the reason why you wouldn't put in an effort and come up with some reasonable stats. Unless this ratio of 1h/2h is somehow hardcoded and can't be changed.
Afaik it is hardcoded
But please don't make katana 1h weapon!
It already is (I beat Bjord in duel with one once :D )
The bastard swords, longsword and katana are massively OP as 2h weapons right now, because they are way too fast. I'd like them to be decent weapons with a shield, though (except the katana of course).
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Is goedendag still usable with a shield? I remember using that extreme right swing back in the day
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If you didn't read past the first two words of the subject line, I'm not suggesting we buff 2hs. I'm talking about buffing longswords, heavy bastard swords, bastard swords, and possibly morningstars when used with shields.
Currently, my understanding is that using these weapons in 1h mode gives something like a 30-35% (correct me if I'm wrong) decrease to both speed and damage.
Actually, it was recently reduced, although I'm not sure in what ways exactly. I think there's a post about it somewhere on the forums. Also, the damage penalty was(possibly still is) only a 22.5% damage reduction.
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I'm still better off using a bastard weapon in 2h mode (with 0 2h WPF) than with a shield and my 120 1h WPF. So I agree, the malus is too high, it should maybe be something like 15%?
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I agree, said weapons are useless in 1h mode. (Also buff 2h cav)
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Edit: How the fuck did this end up as a double post...
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I would actually consider investing in some shield skill if my HBS weren't totally worthless in 1h mode.
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Well, with bastard swords and long sword this wouldn't be much of a problem. But the Morningstar could become a bit OP if given too much speed.
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Actually, it was recently reduced, although I'm not sure in what ways exactly. I think there's a post about it somewhere on the forums. Also, the damage penalty was(possibly still is) only a 22.5% damage reduction.
This makes sense. I actually like to pick up morningstars and longswords in strat battles to use them 1h + shield and actually do very well with them. I like the longsword length and morningstar shield breaker + pierce. In strat battles the slow speed isn't important cuz you're rarely in a duel situation when formation fighting. 30-35% is way too much cuz I'd never be getting the kills I do with 25 cut/pierce.
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Katana/shield is goofy as hell but if any changes are made I hope (and assume this would be what happens, since it is combat coding and not weapon stats) that any changes would apply to that as well. I agree that morningstar would probably be the big balancing issue, since it has no 1h counterpart.
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Actually, it was recently reduced, although I'm not sure in what ways exactly. I think there's a post about it somewhere on the forums. Also, the damage penalty was(possibly still is) only a 22.5% damage reduction.
Oh that makes sense. It did seem to me like the damage wasn't as bad as a 35% malus would suggest, which is why I actually had less of an issue with the damage. It's really the speed penalty that makes these weapons difficult. I'm having trouble finding the post where that was changed though.
I forgot about the katana and goedendag! The hardest balancing act will be the morningstar because of the massive pierce damage and the goedendag because of its crazy reach. Still, I think it's worth it to try, especially now that we have WSE.
I miss you too, cow.
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Well, they could make katana and morningstar ONLY 2h weapons, and problem solved.
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Maybe the more shield skill you have, the less of a penalty you get when using these?!
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The malus should definitely be reduced. Longsword in 1h should be slightly worse than arabian cav, not worse than even the peasant swords.
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As alternative, there are 1h\2h weapons that can be used in 1h mode without big penalties. (if you've got 1h wpfs of course)
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It's the semi-annual Aristeia appearance! Quick, distract him so he doesn't notice his shadow. Also, I agree with what you said and think that one hand mode on those weapons should be possible without a shield as well (with the malus ofc).
I miss you
I literally came onto this thread to mention being able to use 1h mode with the bastard 2hs (longsword, hbs, bs, katana, morningstar) without the use of a shield and of course still keeping the penalties for using hand and a half weapons in one hand.
so thank you for already mentioning it and ima just quote and put dis mofucka right here.