cRPG

cRPG => Scene Editing => Topic started by: Rannepear on May 04, 2011, 09:17:05 am

Title: Battle: Lost Fortress (Updated to v1.1.1)
Post by: Rannepear on May 04, 2011, 09:17:05 am
My first map, Lost Fortress. It's incredibly simple and balanced (in theory).

(Note, while actual layout and basic look of map is still the same, updates have changed a few things you might see in the picture, nothing drastic though.)
(click to show/hide)

-Red: Boundaries
-Black: Spawn zones
-Yellow: Ideal Cavalry path
-Purple: Small hill and the ideal archer zone. Likely the second area the final melee battles will take place.
-Blue: Dense forest. Protection against archers and cavalry, and fantastic for the main melee battle of a match.

Each location is balanced out by another. If you chose cavalry, you will be able to enjoy all the cav-madness that comes with that in a large open runway. Players vulnerable to cavalry will have the option to take the hill-top (which has a tower on it), or take cover in the forest; both offer protection from the madness. Players aiming to avoid incoming projectiles will fare well in the forest, as it is dense in trees and foliage. Most players will appreciate simplicity and the melee friendly outcome of the finale of the matches that could be played here, while archers and horsemen can still get their kicks as well.

(click to show/hide)

I started off just fucking around, but all in all I think I did pretty good. Especially for my first time using the Warband world edit tools (which suck). Please download and give me feedback, or if I royally screwed something up...lemme know. Thanks!

-Rannepear.

http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=2857


Updated 5/4/11
*v1.1
Changes:
-Aesthetic changes (removal of "blood", addition of paths, etc.)
-Mechanic changes (addressed concerns about players being able to camp on rooftops back in spawns by not completely blocking off villages, but blocking access to their rooftops and ideal camping locations)
-Reduction and substitution of foliage props around edge

Updated 5/5/11
*v1.1.1
Changes:
Further reduction of aesthetic foliage
Title: Re: Battle: Lost Fortress
Post by: Zergmar on May 04, 2011, 09:57:08 pm
Feedback:
Looks good, looks fairly balanced... and yeah the 'editor' is pretty bad
By the way, the red stuff on the ground looks kind of unnatural, I'd use it less often
Title: Re: Battle: Lost Fortress
Post by: Rannepear on May 05, 2011, 12:02:24 am
Yea...the fake blood looks strange...but I think the aerial view exaggerates that.. Probably would look better on the ground. Thanks though.

I'll probably remove that.
Title: Re: Battle: Lost Fortress
Post by: Ozin on May 05, 2011, 12:10:12 am
Looks good man, but one more tip: If you could thin out/optimize the number of trees on the map, especially on the edges, a lot of players with medium/bad computers would be happy. Trees have quite an impact on fps sadly.

One method I seem to use a lot is to increase the size of the outer trees quite a lot and then lower them. This makes the forest seem more dense and helps hide the background  without using too many trees to do it. And yes, creating forests in M&B can be a bitch.
Title: Re: Battle: Lost Fortress
Post by: Bjarky on May 05, 2011, 12:23:24 am
It looks good, but i sense that this map could unwantendly make people camp to much, since the "spawn villages" look like good camp spots, maybe you could make them inaccessible for ladders by adding borders on the houses and by this force people to get moving to the middle of the map to use the made spots over there and get alot more action on.
Just my 5 cents, i could be wrong off course  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Battle: Lost Fortress
Post by: Rannepear on May 05, 2011, 12:32:39 am
Looks good man, but one more tip: If you could thin out/optimize the number of trees on the map, especially on the edges, a lot of players with medium/bad computers would be happy. Trees have quite an impact on fps sadly.

One method I seem to use a lot is to increase the size of the outer trees quite a lot and then lower them. This makes the forest seem more dense and helps hide the background  without using too many trees to do it. And yes, creating forests in M&B can be a bitch.
Freakin' outdated sons of bitches... :lol:
You're right though... I'll see what I can do. It's just a pain since you can only edit on thing at a time with this stupid editor (I hope I'm wrong?!). I'll try to reduce the trees though..at least the border ones.

It looks good, but i sense that this map could unwantendly make people camp to much, since the "spawn villages" look like good camp spots, maybe you could make them inaccessible for ladders by adding borders on the houses and by this force people to get moving to the middle of the map to use the made spots over there and get alot more action on.
Just my 5 cents, i could be wrong off course  :mrgreen:

Ah, good idea. I will definitely do that. I think I will just shut off entrance into them all together... Thanks!
Title: Re: Battle: Lost Fortress (Updated to v1.1)
Post by: Rannepear on May 05, 2011, 02:24:06 am
Both concerns have been addressed. Thanks for the suggestions, let me know how it runs for you and if you like it please!
Title: Re: Battle: Lost Fortress
Post by: Peasant_Woman on May 05, 2011, 03:14:08 am
It's just a pain since you can only edit one thing at a time with this stupid editor (I hope I'm wrong?!). I'll try to reduce the trees though..at least the border ones.

Actually I'm pretty sure you can hold control and select multiple objects and then resize them or move them or whatever in the normal way. This makes editing repetitive stuff like trees/grass etc at least bearable.
Nice looking map too  :)
Title: Re: Battle: Lost Fortress
Post by: Rannepear on May 05, 2011, 03:24:15 am
Actually I'm pretty sure you can hold control and select multiple objects and then resize them or move them or whatever in the normal way. This makes editing repetitive stuff like trees/grass etc at least bearable.
Nice looking map too  :)

Thanks!

And I tried that. Selecting a bunch of the same prop and editing their XYZ values...Only changed one. But I think I was doing it with barriers, and that was when I didn't understand them very well. I just change values of starting prop and then it saves those values for the next prop you want to place, which is nice. It didn't take me as long as I was expecting to fix all that.

Also, is there a way to edit values faster before you lay the prop? I have to do that B+x/y/z thing, and it takes FOREVER. It won't let me enter the values manually.
Title: Re: Battle: Lost Fortress (Updated to v1.1)
Post by: Peasant_Woman on May 05, 2011, 04:34:31 am
Thanks!

And I tried that. Selecting a bunch of the same prop and editing their XYZ values...Only changed one. But I think I was doing it with barriers, and that was when I didn't understand them very well. I just change values of starting prop and then it saves those values for the next prop you want to place, which is nice. It didn't take me as long as I was expecting to fix all that.

My bad, I just checked myself and the control+rightclick multiselect lets you move or rotate multiple objects along the x/y/z but resizing will only affect the last object you selected.

Also, is there a way to edit values faster before you lay the prop? I have to do that B+x/y/z thing, and it takes FOREVER. It won't let me enter the values manually.

I dont think you can edit the values before you place the prop. The only thing I've found which does similar is to first enter add object mode for the object (like wheat in a wheat field) rezize it before placing it using the B/B+X/Y/Z commands to get it as close as you can to what you want and then every object of that kind you place will be the exact same size. As far as I know you can only enter specific scale values after the object is placed, hope this helps a little.
Title: Re: Battle: Lost Fortress (Updated to v1.1)
Post by: Rannepear on May 05, 2011, 05:02:47 am
Yea I got that. I was hoping there'd be a faster way. The B+X/Y/Z scaling method is so slow. Is there maybe a way to speed it up?
Title: Re: Battle: Lost Fortress (Updated to v1.1)
Post by: Ozin on May 05, 2011, 11:05:47 am
Delete the trees you want to resize, and enter the size before you place new ones, that way all the new trees are the new size. Quicker that way.
Title: Re: Battle: Lost Fortress (Updated to v1.1)
Post by: Rannepear on May 05, 2011, 11:08:46 am
That's what I did. I placed a few normal tall trees, then found wider ones with thick foliage...lowered their Z a bit and made them fat...looks good. Thanks.
Title: Re: Battle: Lost Fortress (Updated to v1.1)
Post by: Ronan on May 05, 2011, 08:54:41 pm
now heres another one concerning trees for ya: when making trees bigger watch out for the 'invisible walls' surrounding the tree. "Screaming Trees" got knocked down because people got annoyed with arrows and what-nots getting stuck in mid air around the enlarged trees. Do some testing and make sure theyre at least not noticeable. 
Title: Re: Battle: Lost Fortress (Updated to v1.1)
Post by: Rannepear on May 05, 2011, 09:16:17 pm
Care to elaborate a bit? Do all tree models function this way? All the enlarged trees are on the edge of the map for purely aesthetic purposes, all the other trees (where players will battle) are their original sizes. Thanks for the info though, I'll keep that in mind in the future.

Also, putting updated and new pictures up.
Title: Re: Battle: Lost Fortress (Updated to v1.1)
Post by: Ronan on May 05, 2011, 10:53:56 pm
 All objects have barriers around them. For some reason the barriers dont always match up when you enlarge them. They become bigger than the visual model or not big enough. Besides trees Ive noticed in on some "battle destroyed" props when I put ladders on the 'destroyed' parts and cant seem to walk on to the wall because an invisible wall is blocking it.

But sounds like you should be fine... So never mind my previous post. :p
Title: Re: Battle: Lost Fortress (Updated to v1.1)
Post by: Rannepear on May 05, 2011, 11:32:53 pm
I've gone ahead and reduced the amount of trees even more...I'm afraid to go any further.  I do not want to remove any from the forest area where players will battle.
Title: Re: Battle: Lost Fortress (Updated to v1.1.1)
Post by: zagibu on May 06, 2011, 07:17:39 pm
Look at the native map "Battle on ice" to get an idea on how many trees you can plant.
Title: Re: Battle: Lost Fortress (Updated to v1.1.1)
Post by: Rannepear on May 06, 2011, 07:21:59 pm
I'm assuming there are 0 trees in that map.

I've seen maps played with an amount of trees comparable to my map. I dont know how they run on other people's PCs but they are up and being played in the first place, so it can't be that bad. I'm confident my map won't run that terribly, but I still need people to play and test it.
Title: Re: Battle: Lost Fortress (Updated to v1.1.1)
Post by: zagibu on May 07, 2011, 02:19:33 am
No, there are many trees on that map, at least 300.
Title: Re: Battle: Lost Fortress (Updated to v1.1.1)
Post by: Rannepear on May 07, 2011, 02:38:34 am
........... :|
Title: Re: Battle: Lost Fortress (Updated to v1.1.1)
Post by: zagibu on May 07, 2011, 12:11:30 pm
What I'm saying is that trees do not hamper performance so much as some people seem to believe. Trees do not have a lot of texture and 3d model information, and they can be used in geometry instancing to speed up rendering. An amount of 300 - 500 trees should still result in decent framerates on most machines.
Title: Re: Battle: Lost Fortress (Updated to v1.1.1)
Post by: Zergmar on May 07, 2011, 03:24:57 pm
Some people run this game on DirectX 7 and ancient PCs.
Aiming for the majority of your audience is all you should be concerned with, which in 2011 can boot Crysis 2 with medium details even on laptops.
Pleasing everyone never gonna happen when people know it's a custom map


// and by the way, your file on MBR should be in » Multiplayer
Title: Re: Battle: Lost Fortress (Updated to v1.1.1)
Post by: Rannepear on May 07, 2011, 05:47:07 pm
What I'm saying is that trees do not hamper performance so much as some people seem to believe. Trees do not have a lot of texture and 3d model information, and they can be used in geometry instancing to speed up rendering. An amount of 300 - 500 trees should still result in decent framerates on most machines.

Alright, well good then. Fortunately for me, I don't have anywhere near that amount, and I'm still content. Thanks for the tip though, I thought you were fucking with me lol (Battle on Ice?).

Some people run this game on DirectX 7 and ancient PCs.
Aiming for the majority of your audience is all you should be concerned with, which in 2011 can boot Crysis 2 with medium details even on laptops.
Pleasing everyone never gonna happen when people know it's a custom map


// and by the way, your file on MBR should be in » Multiplayer

Thanks, I'm just worried with it being my first map and all.

Alright let me fix that, thanks again!
Title: Re: Battle: Lost Fortress (Updated to v1.1.1)
Post by: HarunYahya on May 16, 2011, 05:43:39 am
I love this map !
Title: Re: Battle: Lost Fortress (Updated to v1.1.1)
Post by: Rannepear on May 16, 2011, 05:46:10 pm
Thank you! Apparently it is on one of the NA servers (not sure which), but I personally have yet to play it on either...
Title: Re: Battle: Lost Fortress (Updated to v1.1.1)
Post by: Rannepear on May 20, 2011, 08:54:28 am
Many problems found...One, map is just way too big. Secondly, the tower on the hill became a major pain. Map is currently under heavy renovation. Size is going to be reduced and tower removed completely.
Title: Re: Battle: Lost Fortress (Updated to v1.1.1)
Post by: Kung Fu Jesus on May 20, 2011, 10:25:13 am
I personally don't have a real issue with the tower itself. I think the main issue is the size combined with the openness. In order to survive, everyone will either gravitate to the tower for that spawn or the forest for the other side. Of course, those in the tower have a free shot at anyone out in the field because its so large and there is no cover. I think you can keep the tower if you move that whole village/farm that's on the edge and completely unused right into the middle open area. That provides cover between the tree line and the tower/hill and makes that village/farm useful. The you can cut 20% of the unused outskits area out of the map.

Title: Re: Battle: Lost Fortress (Updated to v1.1.1)
Post by: Toffi on May 20, 2011, 01:10:29 pm
I hope you'll finish the map cause it looks awesome, very authentical! :D
Title: Re: Battle: Lost Fortress (Updated to v1.1.1)
Post by: Rannepear on May 20, 2011, 07:32:22 pm
I personally don't have a real issue with the tower itself. I think the main issue is the size combined with the openness. In order to survive, everyone will either gravitate to the tower for that spawn or the forest for the other side. Of course, those in the tower have a free shot at anyone out in the field because its so large and there is no cover. I think you can keep the tower if you move that whole village/farm that's on the edge and completely unused right into the middle open area. That provides cover between the tree line and the tower/hill and makes that village/farm useful. The you can cut 20% of the unused outskits area out of the map.

I cut the distance across in half. I still think the tower will become an issue. It's too big, especially now that the map size has been reduced. However, I still intend to replace it with something a bit more "natural". That, or use a tower prop that only has an upper deck and not all those damn stairs.

 The whole point was for cav to have open range, infantry would be able to escape into the trees (that didn't work out), and archers could take the hill as well as fire from the outskirts of the forest. I should still put some props in the field so it's not too open.

 I suppose I can give that village more of a use, as it was purely there for aesthetic reasons. One thing I'll think I'll do, instead of putting the spawn of one of the teams by the hill, I'll move it across towards the wall and forest. That way, melee users can make use of the forest and if you want to take the hill you're going to become vulnerable to cavalry. Thanks for your input though, I'm glad I actually got to test it out with players finally.

I hope you'll finish the map cause it looks awesome, very authentical! :D
Thank you.