This suggestion opens up possibility for undoing current (silly) slot requirement for crossbows.
I have searched the forum and couldn't find any thread that matches my suggestion. If my suggestion is similar to some other suggestion please post a link and i will tell admins to close this one if it is pretty much the same. Thank you for understanding.
While some of you might see this as a big nerf i would like you to read the thread entirely before you say yes or no.
As we should all know crossbows are kinda easy to use, even if you are not trained that well, but a skilled marksman would always be more deadly than a peasant or a grunt picking it up from the ground and shooting at enemies. This suggestion is about that.
While archers need power draw and throwers need power throw to use their weapon of choice properly (and even use them at all) crossbowmen do not have that requirement. I suggest renaming Power Draw skill into Marksmanship. Both archers and crossbowmen would use it but in a DIFFERENT way. Archers would still have same usage for Marksmanship. Crossbows would still have strength as only requirement but they would have additional requirement to do full damage or a bit more.
How does this work?
Lets see the list of crossbows first in order for this suggestion to make sense and i will put Marksmanship requirement in brackets. All will be explained below the list:
Hunting Crossbow (1)
Light Crossbow (2)
Crossbow (3)
Heavy Crossbow (4)
Arbalest (5)
Reminder, anyone with proper strength would be able to pick it up and shoot/reload. What happens if a guy with 0 Marksmanship takes Hunting Crossbow? He does 50% damage. With 1 in Marksmanship he does full damage. Light Crossbow would deal 50% at 0 Marksmanship and 75% damage at 1 Marksmanship and 100% at 2. Crossbow would do 50% at 0, 67% at 1 and 83% at 2, ofc 100% at 3. Heavy Crossbow in a same way 50% at 0, 62.5% at 1, 75% at 2, 87.5% at 3 and 100% at 4. Arbalest would do 50% at 0, 60% at 1, 70% at 2, 80% at 3, 90% at 4 and normal damage at 5 Marksmanship.
Now what happens when u have more than required. Each point of Marksmanship over the requirement would add 5% do damage up to 20%. Having more than 4 Marksmanship over the requirement wouldn't change the damage output. Marksmanship wouldn't change the accuracy since it wouldn't affect effective wpf.
Summary:
Skill name change: Power Draw becomes Marksmanship
Marksmanship has same effect on archers (bow users) as Power Draw has now.
Marksmanship becomes secondary requirement for crossbow users if they want to do full damage or even some more.
Hybrid crossbow users can still be hybrids with the same build but they would be less effective in the ranged combat.
This suggestion opens up possibility for undoing current (silly) slot requirement for crossbows.
Numbers i presented do not need to be like this. This is my point of view and can be changed if needed.
Thoughts, suggestion?
I like this, except that Power Draw shouldn't be replaced with Markmanship. Markmanship should be a whole new skill.
I'll try to make it short, but it'll be hard. Reasons why your suggestion is good are obvious and written by you so I'll give reasons why it's not the best.Im not sure if u know where this is coming from but i will try to say all i can think of.(click to show/hide)
Im not sure if u know where this is coming from but i will try to say all i can think of.
This isnt a post saying archery has PD as requirement so xbows must have it or something similar. Shields shouldnt have skill requirement to pick them up, als thrown weapons shoulnt. Tell me if u know a single person who couldnt put his arms around grips for the shield and hold it? Tell me if u know one person who doesnt know how to throw a stick (spear, javelin...), or to pull a string on a bow. I would remove those requirements and make current skills (Shield and Power Throw) and Power Draw) do the similar effect crossbows have in my suggestion.
This suggestion represents the training of a soldier to use one weapon more efficiently. Current game only allows melee weapons to be used by all and xbows. It doesnt make sense compared to other game features.
This would give dedicated xbow users more power and i feel its a good thing. Crossbows are meant to be so called owerpowerd. After all they should pierce almost any armor. Yes, hybrids will suffer again but this suggestion really opens up possibility to revert stupid 2 slot nerf.
Someone said that Marksmanship should be separate skill and it seems i totally forgot that bowmen and crossbowmen would be able to use each others weapons... So ye i suppose a new skill would be better...
(click to show/hide)
I clearly understand what you suggest and I agree with most of it, but if you speak about realism: how would your skill define the power of the crossbow? It's the same as making different damage to the guns depending on the skill.
Also I doubt it's possible to add new skills, it's hardcoded.
I am not exactly sure if I followed you completely.
Your Heavy Crossbow compared to Your Arbalest
-10 damage
-4 Missile Speed
+21 Reload speed
-2 strength requirement
-2 Accuracy
-1.5 weight
I want to explain why I highlighted the damage and accuracy Yellow- because I don't really think 10 damage or 2 accuracy makes that big of a difference.
I have used both Heavy and Arbalest - I already think the heavy is superior, I am sure you have used both as well. My reasoning for believing this way is: I would still have to shoot that guy in plate 3 times, I would still have to shoot that archer twice, the 10 damage difference is really nothing if you look at it from the point of few how many times you have to shoot the guy for him to go down.
I feel the same way about the accuracy, 87-89? I don't think that is a huge difference.
There is little if not any reason to choose the arbalest over the heavy if you had your way, not to mention it would be just under what the arbalest costs now and you would be making the arbalest cost nearly 3500 more gold.
Pure Heavy build at lvl 30 :
14-27
9 ath 9 wm 180 wpf in xbow.
Pure Arbalest build at lvl 30:
16-27
6 ath 9 wm 180 in xbow
You tell me which is better? -3 athletics for more weight, more cost, way slower, faster missile speed. All so I can shoot that same guy the same amount of times.
I can try to explain, and that doesnt mean i am correct. Lets say i take a rifle in my hands and you do it. You are a trained sharpshooter and im just a guy who picked up a rifle from the floor. We can both agree that we are able to kill someone. But lets say we both aim for the heart of a target. I can say that you will most probably hit it. While i might just pierce the lung or hit his guts, or even his arm since im quite unskilled with that weapon. Your shot will be fatal, while mine could be fatal but not at that exact moment. In cRPG we dont have bleeding as a factor or something similar. We have damage dealt to a target. I assume certain skills (like PD, PT and PS, at one point hopefully Marksmanship) and weapon proficiency are replacements for those real life situations. Im not much talking about realism here to be honest, just trying to understand game mechanics and then approximate them to weapon usage represented in real life. Those 2 statements might be one against other but while ppl try to project realism into games i try to project game into realism and try to understand it better.
By reducing the damage with inadequate Sharpshooter skill we bring some "realism" to game, or at least i think of it. I also think that crossbows (at least high tier ones) should be able to devastate tincans, since bolts actually pierce through plate armor (unlike arrows). That is the 2nd part of my suggestion - buffing the xbow damage for dedicated crossbowmen. I know this might be somewhat OP but i am prepared to live with it. After all im 1-2 shots from arbalest anyway and im not whining about that weapon being op, i just whine about the amount of annoyance it produced :).
I have no idea about that. Im not a programer but i have seen skill foraging in Floris Mod Pack. I am not sure if he added a new skill or replaced an old one.
If you're speaking about fatal damage which is not anything realistic I'd say because you can aim good but still it doesn't depend on how good you aim, it depends on what you hit. Why can't a badplayer make a random shot to make the same damage output?
I never try to do something realistic in the first place, it was Dotter who claimed it realistic which isn't. But anyway some certain part of realism should be in.