cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Belatu on April 22, 2013, 12:10:10 am

Title: Archery and fun
Post by: Belatu on April 22, 2013, 12:10:10 am
Hello guys,

I am here to express my opinion and make a demand:

I dont find archery funny now, and it makes me sad. I dont want to kill more people, or or being more powerful or top the score board, or being more fast... I just want it to be more funny.

Saddly I dont have any ideas now, but I am sure you can do something about it

Please dev team , listen my voice and think in making archery more enjoyfull and funny

thanks
Title: Re: Archery and fun
Post by: no_rules_just_play on April 22, 2013, 12:15:47 am
its signed
i can only approved
Title: Re: Archery and fun
Post by: Macropus on April 22, 2013, 12:45:08 am
Next patch note:
- added fun feature for archers. Each time you shoot an arrow, a message appears: "You got [1-5] fun points".
Title: Re: Archery and fun
Post by: Arrowblood on April 22, 2013, 01:35:50 am
more points for longer range hits pls.
Title: Re: Archery and fun
Post by: Son Of Odin on April 22, 2013, 01:48:35 am
Bonus for arse shots and instant kill with knee shot :wink:
Title: Re: Archery and fun
Post by: Silfarion on April 22, 2013, 03:07:08 am
Bonus for arse shots

Cue my avatar
Title: Re: Archery and fun
Post by: Joker86 on April 22, 2013, 11:52:56 am
I could think of several ways to improve archery, but I guess the WB engine would not allow it, and using WSE it would require some serious amount of work.

For example to be able to draw the bow over the point of highest aiming, for more damage but less accuracy and firing speed.
Title: Re: Archery and fun
Post by: Panos on April 22, 2013, 12:10:19 pm
I KNOW A WAY FOR ARCHERS TO HAVE FUN ON THIS MOD.

















































CHANGE CLASS    :twisted:
Title: Re: Archery and fun
Post by: Vibe on April 22, 2013, 12:10:57 pm
go melee?
Title: Re: Archery and fun
Post by: Riddaren on April 22, 2013, 07:08:13 pm
One solution would be to increase the game speed overall.
The game isn't fast. It's pretty damn slow.

However, with increased game speed, the individual skills will be affected much more by reaction time, obviously.
That is not only a good thing. Teamplaying will be harder and the usage of tactics overall would be less rewarding.

But personally I had lots of fun at the highest game speed on EU_1 last time I tried it, and that was as a lancer.

(click to show/hide)

Examples of really bad "nerfs" that most of all just made the game less fun (atleast for that class):
- Foot archery: Increased Arrow weight
- Lancers: The heavily decreased lance angle
- Throwers: The removal of jump throwing
- HA: Heavily decreased accuracy at higher riding speeds - This totally killed the class imo and with it Tuonela (the best of them all)

A less accurate and slower game with fewer abilities can only result in less fun. Lower damage is also something that makes it less fun.
Title: Re: Archery and fun
Post by: Ulter on April 22, 2013, 08:47:43 pm
The problem with incresing the game speed is that it will also increse many problems related to connection.
Title: Re: Archery and fun
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on April 22, 2013, 08:51:42 pm
Examples of really bad "nerfs" that most of all just made the game less fun (atleast for that class):
- Foot archery: Increased Arrow weight
- Lancers: The heavily decreased lance angle
- Throwers: The removal of jump throwing
- HA: Heavily decreased accuracy at higher riding speeds - This totally killed the class imo and with it Tuonela (the best of them all)
I seem to recall your foot archer alt kiting my 8ath char for over a minute (we were running at the same speed) with me being the last guy alive on my team and me being against you, hate_more, and one other guy. And yet you don't see why the weight nerf was so necesarry?
Title: Re: Archery and fun
Post by: Riddaren on April 22, 2013, 09:46:15 pm
I seem to recall your foot archer alt kiting my 8ath char for over a minute (we were running at the same speed) with me being the last guy alive on my team and me being against you, hate_more, and one other guy. And yet you don't see why the weight nerf was so necesarry?

That's why I have a very high athletics alt-archer. To compensate for the otherwise boring slowness :)
But I do see why it was done.

The problem with incresing the game speed is that it will also increse many problems related to connection.

That too.
Title: Re: Archery and fun
Post by: Belatu on April 23, 2013, 12:17:41 am
Why not a bleeding for arrow damages.
I mean, counting the same damage, but your life goes down slowly. It is a bit like a nerf for archery because you have to wait to see the damage that you deal affect completely, but THAT is fun to think the other guy is watching his health bar decreasing slowly wothout knowing whe it is going to end XDD
Title: Re: Archery and fun
Post by: Tennenoth on April 23, 2013, 11:19:38 am
Bonus for arse shots and instant kill with knee shot :wink:

Insta-kill? Should just get the Guard banner & tag.
Title: Re: Archery and fun
Post by: Kafein on April 23, 2013, 11:48:44 am
- Reduce shot release time window duration
- Reduce projectile speed (a lot)
- Reduce melee range damage, slightly increase long range damage
- Replace the arrow pierce bonus against armor by a malus
- Remove all pierce damage possibilities for archers
- Firing when an enemy is closer than 1 meter automatically fumbles (= nothing happens)
- Moving while drawing the bow leads to a decrease in maximum accuracy
- Moving with the bow already drawn leads to a fumble
- Remove all staggers from ranged damage
- Increase bow stats, nerf heirlooms (normal bows should be current +1, MW bows should be current +2, ammo heirlooms should only increase the capacity)
- Additionally increase bow damage, accuracy and fire rate


Archery now fun for both parties involved, instead of just one.



I mean using a bow is interesting and all but the truth is, 99.99999% of archer just want to shoot at people that can't shoot back.
Title: Re: Archery and fun
Post by: Paul on April 23, 2013, 12:08:22 pm
My suggestion is to do nothing.
Title: Re: Archery and fun
Post by: Rumblood on April 23, 2013, 05:23:00 pm
99.99999% of Kafein's are biased and over-exaggerate.
Title: Re: Archery and fun
Post by: Kafein on April 23, 2013, 08:50:30 pm
I do exaggerate. But I don't like the term "overexaggerating". What does it mean anyway ?

Even if those suggestions are not acceptable, you can't ignore the selling point of ranged classes is precisely this asymmetry.
Title: Re: Archery and fun
Post by: Belatu on April 23, 2013, 09:14:33 pm
Game over. Eated alive by ancient trolls and indolent devs.

Please move this thread to spam :(
Title: Re: Archery and fun
Post by: Rumblood on April 23, 2013, 09:20:29 pm
I do exaggerate. But I don't like the term "overexaggerating". What does it mean anyway ?

Even if those suggestions are not acceptable, you can't ignore the selling point of ranged classes is precisely this asymmetry.

Exaggeration is accepted and expected in the normal course of debate, over-exaggeration is exaggerating to the point that it becomes ridiculous. You can't ignore that your assertion is wrong to the point of having your neck in the sand in order to be able to make it. Most archers I know have an order of priority for their targets that goes: Immediate threats, HX, HA, all other Cavalry, Xbow, Archers, throwers, groups of enemy chasing a friendly, shielders turned sideways or with their backs turned, everyone else.  Notice that the first targets are all able to shoot back except for other Cavalry and who cares about the back stabbers riding horses with ninja hooves anyhow?  99.99999%  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Archery and fun
Post by: Adamar on April 24, 2013, 09:10:11 pm
 Its been said before that the class needs fixing.

Certain people see the departure of regular known archers from the servers as a victory, but its in fact a failure to the game and the players. Mostly of you see today are temporary archers who dont last long enought to even make a name for themselfs.
Making an archer move slow is an all over nerf to his efficiency, because a weak melee build with slow motion is even more useless in combat, it wasn't a fair move. And arrow speed had nothing to do with kitting, decreasing that one was also a fail for those who set out to 'ballance the game' and simply removing kitting, because there was no trade, only removal of capabilities.
I would enjoy a class that doesn't require level 34 and an extreme investment in athlectics to be eficiente.
Title: Re: Archery and fun
Post by: Kafein on April 24, 2013, 11:00:38 pm
Its been said before that the class needs fixing.

Certain people see the departure of regular known archers from the servers as a victory, but its in fact a failure to the game and the players. Mostly of you see today are temporary archers who dont last long enought to even make a name for themselfs.
Making an archer move slow is an all over nerf to his efficiency, because a weak melee build with slow motion is even more useless in combat, it wasn't a fair move. And arrow speed had nothing to do with kitting, decreasing that one was also a fail for those who set out to 'ballance the game' and simply removing kitting, because there was no trade, only removal of capabilities.
I would enjoy a class that doesn't require level 34 and an extreme investment in athlectics to be eficiente.

Or, try to be efficient without being a dick, in other words, without kiting.
Title: Re: Archery and fun
Post by: MrShine on April 24, 2013, 11:11:38 pm
Archery now fun for both parties involved, instead of just one.

- Archer hits 2her
- 2her goes 'WEEEE I LOVE BEING SHOT BY ARCHERS!!!!'

lol yeah like that's going to happen
 :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Archery and fun
Post by: Kafein on April 24, 2013, 11:15:12 pm
- Archer hits 2her
- 2her goes 'WEEEE I LOVE BEING SHOT BY ARCHERS!!!!'

lol yeah like that's going to happen
 :rolleyes:

If there was an opportunity to dodge arrows after they are fired, why not ?

But mainly no, you can only mitigate.
Title: Re: Archery and fun
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on April 25, 2013, 12:14:36 am
Rumblood you really shouldn't talk about other people making insanely biased suggestions...
Title: Re: Archery and fun
Post by: Adamar on April 25, 2013, 12:32:10 am
Or, try to be efficient without being a dick, in other words, without kiting.

I was a melee archer, Medium armor + mace. What do you think the nerf did to my build? Do you think it's fun swinging at thin air, when your oponent has 3 times your armor weight?
You shoul learn what the problem is before being allowed to post in threads like this, but knowing you I might as well ignore your posts.

If there was an opportunity to dodge arrows after they are fired, why not ?

But mainly no, you can only mitigate.

There always was, if you bothered to learn the timing.
Title: Re: Archery and fun
Post by: Kafein on April 25, 2013, 09:39:30 am
I was a melee archer, Medium armor + mace. What do you think the nerf did to my build? Do you think it's fun swinging at thin air, when your oponent has 3 times your armor weight?

Yes. More fun than being shot at anyway. How many quivers you got ?

You shoul learn what the problem is before being allowed to post in threads like this, but knowing you I might as well ignore your posts.

I agree the ammo weight nerf is not ideal, but apparently it's the best solution the devs came up with to reduce kiting.

There always was, if you bothered to learn the timing.

Sure, a little bit. Most often not though, as the time window in which archers have good accuracy is long enough to wait for the dodge move and shoot afterwards (this is the only interesting case as people dodging continously are even easier to hit).
Title: Re: Archery and fun
Post by: Tindel on April 25, 2013, 11:47:19 am
I played one gen as an archer with masterwork bodkin and longbow. It was around a year ago, before the recent nerfs. I spent alot of time shooting people, over and over.

In my opinion it wasnt fun then, i doubt its funny now and i can see no way it will ever be funny.

If you want fun, i suggest any type of infantry build, wear medium armor, have at least 7ath and use a funny weapon, something that appeals to you.

Grats, now you will have fun.
Title: Re: Archery and fun
Post by: Belatu on April 25, 2013, 05:40:37 pm
First, please Kafein and others stop Lobying against this thread and the objetive that it has. Just leave it be and give to the people with real lifes one oportunity so our comments and opinions doesnt get deeply shadowed under a forum-post-war.

Second, with a litle bit of imagination it could be posible to get osme ideas so devs can think about it and inspire them, we can get some keys about it.
And yes, I have a melee alter to have some quick fun with my small weekly time for playing. But I really want to see archer heroes back, even if I never will be one of the, due to my ping and my underskillness, I think that ranged hazzard should be there. It makes the ambient more dangerous and hostile, and in my head that is how I imagine medieval times; where you dont really have a moment of peace if you choose to war. Nor moment to rest, nor place place to hide neither a safe a option to choose.

 8-)
Title: Re: Archery and fun
Post by: Adamar on April 25, 2013, 06:21:33 pm
Yes. More fun than being shot at anyway. How many quivers you got ?

One if you want to know, thats what you could bring with longbow+mace. But the price was/is also a factor, especially when wearing armor, which was yet another reason not to be a melee oriented archer I suppose.

And in case you dont know, ranged themselfs are more likely to get shot than inf. As far as the fun factor goes, archers where usually at the bottom then, and its even worse now.
Title: Re: Archery and fun
Post by: Rumblood on April 25, 2013, 07:50:43 pm
Rumblood you really shouldn't talk about other people making insanely biased suggestions...

Says Zlisch_The_Biased.  :P
Title: Re: Archery and fun
Post by: Kafein on April 25, 2013, 07:54:51 pm
First, please Kafein and others stop Lobying against this thread and the objetive that it has. Just leave it be and give to the people with real lifes one oportunity so our comments and opinions doesnt get deeply shadowed under a forum-post-war.

Second, with a litle bit of imagination it could be posible to get osme ideas so devs can think about it and inspire them, we can get some keys about it.
And yes, I have a melee alter to have some quick fun with my small weekly time for playing. But I really want to see archer heroes back, even if I never will be one of the, due to my ping and my underskillness, I think that ranged hazzard should be there. It makes the ambient more dangerous and hostile, and in my head that is how I imagine medieval times; where you dont really have a moment of peace if you choose to war. Nor moment to rest, nor place place to hide neither a safe a option to choose.

 8-)

I get your point, but it's hard to tell as someone that never enjoyed archery in this game that much.

I guess if aiming wasn't based on a COF but rather on a moving point, it would be more interesting.