cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Riddaren on April 21, 2013, 11:02:24 am
Title: Collisions between horses - Is there anything that can be done?
Post by: Riddaren on April 21, 2013, 11:02:24 am
This has been suggested hundreds of times but I can't remember any developer saying it can't be done. There must be something you can do about it. It's not like it can get any worse than it is now.
Title: Re: Collisions between horses - Is there anything that can be done?
Post by: Kafein on April 21, 2013, 12:18:23 pm
Yes please, instead of nerfing cav stat, just make it harder to play. For example, by introducing realistic difficulty elements like this.
Title: Re: Collisions between horses - Is there anything that can be done?
Post by: bruce on April 21, 2013, 12:31:21 pm
It's not even "realistic difficulty", it's "realistic fun". +1
Title: Re: Collisions between horses - Is there anything that can be done?
Post by: Ulter on April 23, 2013, 06:43:50 pm
Dear god... how fucking amazing horsemen vs horsemen charges would be if this was implemented :O
Title: Re: Collisions between horses - Is there anything that can be done?
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on April 23, 2013, 08:02:10 pm
As a player who almost exclusively plays cavalry lancer, i'd be completely for this. But I'd also want it so that the dead body of a horse flying through the air can kill a player, or horses running you over can potentially kill you as well. To balance the massive damage horses would be doing to players, you'd have to enable braceable polearms (also the stakes help to counter this as well)
Title: Re: Collisions between horses - Is there anything that can be done?
Post by: Rhaelys on April 24, 2013, 09:32:00 am
As a player who almost exclusively plays cavalry lancer, i'd be completely for this. But I'd also want it so that the dead body of a horse flying through the air can kill a player, or horses running you over can potentially kill you as well. To balance the massive damage horses would be doing to players, you'd have to enable braceable polearms (also the stakes help to counter this as well)
Only if 140+ length polearm thrusts can "rear" a horse flying through the air as they currently do.
Title: Re: Collisions between horses - Is there anything that can be done?
Post by: Teeth on April 24, 2013, 10:40:39 am
As a player who almost exclusively plays cavalry lancer, i'd be completely for this. But I'd also want it so that the dead body of a horse flying through the air can kill a player, or horses running you over can potentially kill you as well. To balance the massive damage horses would be doing to players, you'd have to enable braceable polearms (also the stakes help to counter this as well)
I love that people think that bracing a polearm will have any use.
Title: Re: Collisions between horses - Is there anything that can be done?
Post by: Ronin on April 24, 2013, 11:06:07 am
Take a round of battle. You brace your spear. I assume that makes you stationary, not able to aim it, doing crazy damage to whoever runs into it. What cav would ever run into a stationary infantryman with a spear? With the maneuver of most horses cav can turn themselves to safety even when they didn't really see you until the last moment. That is best case scenario. The scenario I expect is, they see you standing there, gallop past you and stab you in the face. Or also very likely, another cavalry guy lances you in the back while you are stuck facing one side. This isn't Total War where a line of 200 spearmen can cover a flank, this is fighting with 100 players on a server, spread out over a big area, where cav are able to go wherever they want, whenever they want. Not even to mention the ranged target that you will be
Seriously, how do you figure it would have any use at all? Bracing a polearm would reduce you to a very small version of wooden stakes, except that you can die.
Title: Re: Collisions between horses - Is there anything that can be done?
Post by: NejStark on April 24, 2013, 12:21:17 pm
Would be cool, but a lot of work I'd imagine.
Title: Re: Collisions between horses - Is there anything that can be done?
Post by: bruce on April 24, 2013, 07:42:12 pm
As a player who almost exclusively plays cavalry lancer, i'd be completely for this. But I'd also want it so that the dead body of a horse flying through the air can kill a player, or horses running you over can potentially kill you as well. To balance the massive damage horses would be doing to players, you'd have to enable braceable polearms (also the stakes help to counter this as well)
You'd have to slash maneuver by a lot (like, half) - it'd be the only good balance. You saw that spear late? Well, now you are the late horseman.
On the other hand, a 2h hero / crossbowman stands firm and stabs the horse in the face? Now he is dead, too. Jumping in the horse so the attack misses won't help.
Cavalry charging in formation against an unprepared mob would be positively and rightfully terrifying.
Title: Re: Collisions between horses - Is there anything that can be done?
Post by: Riddaren on May 03, 2013, 02:57:40 pm
Bump.
Title: Re: Collisions between horses - Is there anything that can be done?
Post by: Bjord on May 03, 2013, 03:09:35 pm
Take a round of battle. You brace your spear. I assume that makes you stationary, not able to aim it, doing crazy damage to whoever runs into it. What cav would ever run into a stationary infantryman with a spear? With the maneuver of most horses cav can turn themselves to safety even when they didn't really see you until the last moment. That is best case scenario. The scenario I expect is, they see you standing there, gallop past you and stab you in the face. Or also very likely, another cavalry guy lances you in the back while you are stuck facing one side. This isn't Total War where a line of 200 spearmen can cover a flank, this is fighting with 100 players on a server, spread out over a big area, where cav are able to go wherever they want, whenever they want. Not even to mention the ranged target that you will be
Seriously, how do you figure it would have any use at all? Bracing a polearm would reduce you to a very small version of wooden stakes, except that you can die.
Granted all that, but it still has vital uses that warrants its implementation.
Guarding narrow flanks, chokepoints, bridges (you should be able to create a small area of collision when multiple polearm bracers group up, so you can't just walk up to them, however they can be shot), corners and whatnot. Cancelling a brace should also be quick, I don't think standing up and slightly altering your grip takes more than 2 seconds.
All in all, this could be a feature to spice up battle a bit (as well as siege).
Also, I think one should be able to aim it slightly. Turnspeed obviously needs to be moderated and you shouldn't be able to lower or raise it more than an inch or two.
Title: Re: Collisions between horses - Is there anything that can be done?
Post by: Ulter on May 03, 2013, 04:16:00 pm
How about allowing spearmen to "brace" their spears by holding a stab while remaining stationary? I think this form of spear bracing would be more appropriate and useful in the current state of crpg.
Title: Re: Collisions between horses - Is there anything that can be done?
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on May 03, 2013, 04:25:24 pm
It would be nice if every weapon had the ability to inflict damage even when it wasn't being chambered or swung. If someone runs into the pike you're chambering, it should do damage.
Title: Re: Collisions between horses - Is there anything that can be done?
Post by: Ubereem on May 07, 2013, 03:24:06 am
jump kick first and then this
Title: Re: Collisions between horses - Is there anything that can be done?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on May 07, 2013, 06:01:03 am
Take a round of battle. You brace your spear. I assume that makes you stationary, not able to aim it, doing crazy damage to whoever runs into it. What cav would ever run into a stationary infantryman with a spear? With the maneuver of most horses cav can turn themselves to safety even when they didn't really see you until the last moment. That is best case scenario. The scenario I expect is, they see you standing there, gallop past you and stab you in the face. Or also very likely, another cavalry guy lances you in the back while you are stuck facing one side. This isn't Total War where a line of 200 spearmen can cover a flank, this is fighting with 100 players on a server, spread out over a big area, where cav are able to go wherever they want, whenever they want. Not even to mention the ranged target that you will be
Seriously, how do you figure it would have any use at all? Bracing a polearm would reduce you to a very small version of wooden stakes, except that you can die.
This so, so much.
Braced spears worked when you had a crapton of buddies with you. c-RPG is not nor ever will be proper warfare, it is nothing but skirmishes and thus we must balance accordingly. That being said I would like to see some form of bracing for the rare city fights that we have.
Title: Re: Collisions between horses - Is there anything that can be done?
Post by: Kafein on May 09, 2013, 01:49:52 am
The problem with stakes and bracing is similar to ladders. They break bad (as in BUILDINGS EVERYWHERE) maps.
Title: Re: Collisions between horses - Is there anything that can be done?
Post by: Paul on May 09, 2013, 09:45:59 am
How should the trigger work for bracing? The problem is that ready position is not "active" for weapon collision. Therefor a module system frame-by-frame check if the weapon in ready position intersects with any agent is too expensive. A reactive trigger(on agent hit) that fires when the bracing player(ready position) is hit by the horse from the right direction will be bad for long reach weapons like the pike because they can simply ride through the pike as long they don't bump the pikeman.
The only thing I can imagine is an on agent hit trigger that checks if the hit is made by a standing footman with a long polearm during early release anim(weapon is active then). It then would overwrite the low (because of sweetspot) damage with something more horse velocity vector related in the trigger. The problem here is of course the timing and it's not really bracing anymore. To not have that we would need to make the final ready position of an attack "active" weapon-collision-wise. This is WSE-stuff and I dunno what can of worms we'd open with that.
Title: Re: Collisions between horses - Is there anything that can be done?
Post by: Kafein on May 09, 2013, 10:16:35 am
How should the trigger work for bracing? The problem is that ready position is not "active" for weapon collision. Therefor a module system frame-by-frame check if the weapon in ready position intersects with any agent is too expensive. A reactive trigger(on agent hit) that fires when the bracing player(ready position) is hit by the horse from the right direction will be bad for long reach weapons like the pike because they can simply ride through the pike as long they don't bump the pikeman.
The only thing I can imagine is an on agent hit trigger that checks if the hit is made by a standing footman with a long polearm during early release anim(weapon is active then). It then would overwrite the low (because of sweetspot) damage with something more horse velocity vector related in the trigger. The problem here is of course the timing and it's not really bracing anymore. To not have that we would need to make the final ready position of an attack "active" weapon-collision-wise. This is WSE-stuff and I dunno what can of worms we'd open with that.
Wouldn't making pole thrust holds active work ? Seems more feasible.
Title: Re: Collisions between horses - Is there anything that can be done?
Post by: Paul on May 09, 2013, 10:28:00 am
The only thing I can imagine is an on agent hit trigger that checks if the hit is made by a standing footman with a long polearm during early release anim(weapon is active then). It then would overwrite the low (because of sweetspot) damage with something more horse velocity vector related in the trigger. The problem here is of course the timing and it's not really bracing anymore. To not have that we would need to make the final ready position of an attack "active" weapon-collision-wise. This is WSE-stuff and I dunno what can of worms we'd open with that.
Title: Re: Collisions between horses - Is there anything that can be done?
Post by: Kafein on May 09, 2013, 10:32:36 am
Aw, okay, didn't understood this that way the first time I read it.
Title: Re: Collisions between horses - Is there anything that can be done?
Post by: Riddaren on May 20, 2013, 11:56:57 pm
Bump.
Title: Re: Collisions between horses - Is there anything that can be done?
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on May 21, 2013, 05:46:53 pm
Yeah still happens pretty much every map, lots of times it happens once a round (even colliding with people, not other horses) sometimes triggers it.
Title: Re: Collisions between horses - Is there anything that can be done?
Post by: Glyph on May 21, 2013, 07:20:44 pm
what if you can brace a weapon like in the total war game series but have a 30 degree turning radius while on the ground, so you still can't move a lot really, but can make slight ajustments while in a spearwall with a couple of others, so there still wouldn't be any reason in using it while you're on your own, but when you do want to use tactics it's quite effective to atleast scare the cav off.
Title: Re: Collisions between horses - Is there anything that can be done?
Post by: Riddaren on March 28, 2014, 09:37:22 pm
Bump.
Make horses able to kill each other when colliding at high speed.
Title: Re: Collisions between horses - Is there anything that can be done?
Post by: Riddaren on April 16, 2014, 06:40:30 pm
Bump.
Horses colliding at high speed should get injured.
Title: Re: Collisions between horses - Is there anything that can be done?
Post by: Riddaren on May 08, 2014, 07:18:19 pm
What the hell... where are all the anti cavalry guys when you need them? :wink: This suggestion, if implemented, would be a direct nerf to cavalry. Should be supported by most infantry players.
But most of all I think it would give a lot more depth to the game for those playing from horseback. Imagine all suicide horsemen who would pick a courser and aim for other horses at high speed :wink:
Title: Re: Collisions between horses - Is there anything that can be done?
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on May 08, 2014, 07:59:11 pm
Well it would be a nerf to anyone who is 1h or 2h cav (basically any melee cav besides lancers), since lots of times their best bet is to stop your horse and start slashing away.
Title: Re: Collisions between horses - Is there anything that can be done?
Post by: Butan on May 08, 2014, 08:02:22 pm
Take a round of battle. You brace your spear. I assume that makes you stationary, not able to aim it, doing crazy damage to whoever runs into it. What cav would ever run into a stationary infantryman with a spear? With the maneuver of most horses cav can turn themselves to safety even when they didn't really see you until the last moment. That is best case scenario. The scenario I expect is, they see you standing there, gallop past you and stab you in the face. Or also very likely, another cavalry guy lances you in the back while you are stuck facing one side. This isn't Total War where a line of 200 spearmen can cover a flank, this is fighting with 100 players on a server, spread out over a big area, where cav are able to go wherever they want, whenever they want. Not even to mention the ranged target that you will be
Seriously, how do you figure it would have any use at all? Bracing a polearm would reduce you to a very small version of wooden stakes, except that you can die.
Napoleonic wars have auto-brace spear on and you can orientate it however you like as long as you remain crouched and without moving (unrealistic but heh), so its really powerful and useful, as long as your spear lenght puts you on the safe side against the lenght of the cavalryman weapon.
I dont know why cRPG doesnt learn more from warband mods like Napoleonic Wars - Persistent World - VikingR. There is tons of battleready features around and if they were converted and adapted to cRPG the game would be greatly improved (I hope I will see more of them in MBG).
On the matter of colliding horses, I dont think there is possibilities of transforming dead horses into projectiles that would do charge damage, but one can hope we had collision damage and more interactivity between horses and the rest of the world environment (including other horses), and not ONLY players on foot.
Title: Re: Collisions between horses - Is there anything that can be done?
Post by: Riddaren on May 31, 2014, 05:43:39 pm
On the matter of colliding horses, I dont think there is possibilities of transforming dead horses into projectiles that would do charge damage, but one can hope we had collision damage and more interactivity between horses and the rest of the world environment (including other horses), and not ONLY players on foot.
Possible or not, it would be great if it was implemented :) Imagine the fun for archers as well. Shooting down a running horse which then falls over teamates and crushes them.
Title: Re: Collisions between horses - Is there anything that can be done?
Post by: JasonPastman on May 31, 2014, 10:06:34 pm
Idea is sick, but I think balance and bugs are a higher priority.
Title: Re: Collisions between horses - Is there anything that can be done?
Post by: Senni__Ti on June 01, 2014, 04:58:56 pm
Pretty sure this would be WSE wizardry.
Haven't seen anything in the module_system which could do this tbh. (without being a HUGE drain on resources)
Title: Re: Collisions between horses - Is there anything that can be done?
Post by: Simon_Templar on June 01, 2014, 06:40:50 pm
This are running horses for the race track. so how is that even a suggestion. And comparison to medieval cavalery. I mean most of the horses who where used in medieval times are not even existing anymore. Not in that large numbers then in medieval times. because they where special breeding. For battle so this has nothing to do with what we are doing here.
Title: Re: Collisions between horses - Is there anything that can be done?
Post by: Riddaren on June 01, 2014, 08:53:35 pm
This are running horses for the race track. so how is that even a suggestion. And comparison to medieval cavalery. I mean most of the horses who where used in medieval times are not even existing anymore. Not in that large numbers then in medieval times. because they where special breeding. For battle so this has nothing to do with what we are doing here.
Sorry but I couldn't find a video of horses from medieaval times :lol: Furthermore you clearly have a terrible perception of reality if you think the horses of today differs so much from the ones back then.
Title: Re: Collisions between horses - Is there anything that can be done?
Post by: Simon_Templar on June 02, 2014, 12:47:28 am
there was a doku who would show you uneducated fool what i mean. Another thing is that a trained horse would act diffrent from the shit what you showed us here. Because like i said it raceing horses but not medieval horses. Another thing is you would ride in full speed only to couch with your great lance. Yes then some accidents can happen then. but you should not forget the energy of a couch lance the force of a ton who would kill the horse and rider. At least for this i have a video :D [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJnkH1YXY8E[/youtube] (funny thing is that this horses are even now expansive as the where in medieval times. Accidents can happening but you would not ride in like this and clash in eatother. This is only in your hollywood addled brain.
Title: Re: Collisions between horses - Is there anything that can be done?
Post by: Simon_Templar on June 02, 2014, 12:48:56 am
at 27 min in the video.
Title: Re: Collisions between horses - Is there anything that can be done?
Post by: Bittersteel on October 21, 2014, 01:11:46 am
Bump
Title: Re: Collisions between horses - Is there anything that can be done?
Post by: AwesomeHail on October 27, 2014, 10:22:29 am
I dont know why cRPG doesnt learn more from warband mods like Napoleonic Wars - Persistent World - VikingR. There is tons of battleready features around and if they were converted and adapted to cRPG the game would be greatly improved (I hope I will see more of them in MBG).
There is no god but cRPG, and Donkey is his prophet.
BURN THE HERETIC!!!!
Title: Re: Collisions between horses - Is there anything that can be done?
Post by: Teeth on October 27, 2014, 04:20:40 pm