It took bird brain into the negative time in order to make a decision. Down with the green bird! Remove that admin!
strat has bugs that aren't always fixed in a timely way, and strat is dying. News at 11.
Hospitaller decided to cede the castle when they didn't have to. They did this because they felt that using the bugs to win a hollow victory wasn't worth it. They could have easily said "fuck it", and continued the cycle of bug abusing.
People are bitching about how long it took to come to a decision; please realize that this was a shit situation that was one big gray area where no admin decision would have been received happily from everyone. Think of the end result as a compromise, both sides didn't get everything they wanted, but the end result of the battle was changed. Also blaming Canary is dumb, not only was he not the only one discussion things, admins shouldn't be put in a situation where massive strat bugs force them to choose who wins and who loses in the first place.
The light at the end of the tunnel is maybe both sides can try to stop abusing things like this for the sake of winning. Obviously we all want to win, but this is a situation where you have to ask yourself "at what cost?". We're the c-rpg community, and we aren't that big. If you are a dirty snake who abuses known bugs to win, you're going to find yourself short on playmates.
Who exactly are you accusing here? Coming from a admin no less. Do you, MrShine, have proof of somebody abusing bugs? If so, why are you not enforcing the rules then?
That we even got into this situation is a sad display of the general lack of consistent leadership from our admins and even more of a lack of attention/caring from the developers.
The devs are ignorant and the admins are all shamelessly petty and corrupt or obsessed with internet Power due to failed real lives (or use the position to pursue pedophiliac urges with impunity despite warning the heads of the game). Expect nothing to ever be done about anything remotely attempting to enforce fair rules and fun in the game unless you bribe admins with cRPG gold/looms or are in a clan with them. I'm dead serious.
I believe the rule is if you are in an unplayable area, you must do your best to get out
Ten years I was a referee for the NHAHA (volunteer) and I have never seen a bigger display of dilatory in my life. It is almost as if the admins went out of their way to waste as much time as possible JUST to say that they gave it "due process". I have handed out real life suspensions to athletes after careful review in less time and with even more unclear rules/precedents. Absolutely shameful.
Please spare us the tired argument of admins being placed in bad positions, wherein they have to hurt somebodies feelings. The position you volunteered for is one where you can not always make somebody happy, if you can not accept that, then perhaps you are in the wrong position. Also who else should be blamed? Canary was the highest ranking admin in the server, it is his position to make the tough calls that the other admins can not or will not make. Expecting people to actually do what they volunteered for is not that unheard of.
Who exactly are you accusing here? Coming from a admin no less. Do you, MrShine, have proof of somebody abusing bugs? If so, why are you not enforcing the rules then?
That we even got into this situation is a sad display of the general lack of consistent leadership from our admins and even more of a lack of attention/caring from the developers.
strat has bugs that aren't always fixed in a timely way, and strat is dying. News at 11.
Hospitaller decided to cede the castle when they didn't have to. They did this because they felt that using the bugs to win a hollow victory wasn't worth it. They could have easily said "fuck it", and continued the cycle of bug abusing.
I think that's worth repeating, they (eventually) chose to give the castle up over winning. Afterall, what's the point of winning something when no one cares or plays?
People are bitching about how long it took to come to a decision; please realize that this was a shit situation that was one big gray area where no admin decision would have been received happily from everyone. Think of the end result as a compromise, both sides didn't get everything they wanted, but the end result of the battle was changed. Also blaming Canary is dumb, not only was he not the only one discussion things, admins shouldn't be put in a situation where massive strat bugs force them to choose who wins and who loses in the first place.
The light at the end of the tunnel is maybe both sides can try to stop abusing things like this for the sake of winning. Obviously we all want to win, but this is a situation where you have to ask yourself "at what cost?". We're the c-rpg community, and we aren't that big. If you are a dirty snake who abuses known bugs to win, you're going to find yourself short on playmates.
It was clear FCC had complete control of the city. Also we are blaming Canary because he doesn't give a shit about FCC( everyone knows ). You can side track or stand up for your fellow admin. But I know Canary is biased. If it was Chaos in FCC's position Canary would jump on it right away like a bird to a worm. In NA1 as murder stated. I hate this bird brain. I think he was a good admin when he started but now he is a "has been". If you can't handle such an important responsibility just step down and do us all a favor. A bigger favour if you can pop a couple pills at the same time.
This post makes a ton of assumptions. Wesley assumes that any feelings Canary may have towards FCC are related to what he does as an admin. Wesley assumes that he would act differently with different factions involved. Wesley assumes that what he thinks about an admin has anything to do with whether or not they're fulfilling their duties. Wesley assumes that arbitrating on Strategus is an important responsbility. Wesley implies that MrShine and Desire were either completely impotent or are also biased.
I'm not sure what the last sentence means. Could be taken a few ways. I'll make my own assumption and assume Wesley's not the kind of scumbag who would want someone to kill themselves over a video game; maybe he's a medical professional who's made some sort of diagnosis, or maybe he's advocating some over the counter medication or black market fare, idk. He'll have to elaborate.
I also would of liked a siege that wasn't horrendously flawed as the Occitan battles following were much more enjoyable than having to deal with such a convoluted mess.
I believe the rule is if you are in an unplayable area, you must do your best to get out, or go spec/quit. Normally, it doesn't take Canary an hour to enforce this on battle, I wonder why it did here.
Once I saw this I'll just have to say this, and if anyone wants to talk about it PM me or steam me.
You thought the Occitan battles following this were much more enjoyable with the overcast of that COMPLETE SHIT siege looming overhead? It is fairly obviously what should have been done about that Hosp siege, and being in hosp TS listening to all of that was painful. I'm glad I had to do roll call for these "much more enjoyable" battles, that you participated in.
Let me explain the atmosphere that I am talking about when I am saying that this siege was the worst thing that I have ever seen. Anyone who plays strat should have fun, and get XP. Anything past that is a pain in the ass, that is my philosophy. So there shouldn't be yelling, worrying about K/D, no 5+ Leaders yelling 30 different things. It should be one guy, leading a party so everyone can have fun/xp. The great thing about strat is that people can actually get life experience leading other people around, and participate in something that they may not otherwise experience outside of the game.
HOWEVER, This siege glorified what is wrong with c-rpg in so many different ways.
It's very clear that:
- Siege equipment is broken
- Maps and bugs bias the attackers or defenders
- People are clearly going to exploit these bugs.
- People have no common sense
- Devs are MIA and essentially strat is FUCKED.
The devs aren't patching, or hot fixing any of this shit. My personal opinion is to freeze or end strat. Let the devs fix all of these problems so the game is actually functional to a level that is somewhat enjoyable and we can proceed.
As for the Occitan battle being more enjoyable after this shit siege? Really? From what I hear Occitan dupe bugged all of their armor. We send waves of genuine armies that have been worked up to since the beginning only to have them pretty much spawn camped near the end with lots of tickets left. because of plate and mauls.
IF you really wanted to have fun in these battles you would level the playing ground. Trust me, at least I am trying to catch up to Occitan's equipment and shit so I can give my mercs fun, because I cannot foresee Occitan doing anything to let this be fun. So in short the battles following we're the same convoluted mess, if you think that what Occitan is doing is fun, your perception of things is skewed.
It was clear FCC had complete control of the city. It was a matter of an unreachable flag that spared Hosp for some time. I think most players on FCC side including me were mad about the admins decision( that took way too long ). Also we are blaming Canary because he doesn't give a shit about FCC( everyone knows ). You can side track or stand up for your fellow admin. But I know Canary is biased. If it was Chaos in FCC's position Canary would jump on it right away like a bird to a worm. In NA1 as murder stated. I hate this bird brain. I think he was a good admin when he started but now he is a "has been". If you can't handle such an important responsibility just step down and do us all a favor. A bigger favour if you can pop a couple pills at the same time.
We do not need another Shik, Smoothrich or Cyrus_HRE on our hands. Once the rules are clear, it will much harder for the masses to be upset with you, and you will stop having to appease everyone when rules and punishments are followed to a T. Also hire more admins so you don't always have to make the decisions.Canary could never be like smooth or cyrus as Canary is never willing to take any action.
also, our strategy at the start of the battle was to leave all flags up so we could kill all the tickets; I started pushing for another strategy of taking all the flags and forcing an admin decision because there were about 6 admins on and the result of the battle was so very obvious as we were doing nothing but spawn camping the defenders 10-15min into the fight. We ended up not really making up our mind whether to capture flags or try to kill them all and so Canary used that as an excuse to ignore the problem as long as possible.
I think the decision would have been reached much quicker for Canary, if you had tried from the beginning to set all the flags down. The fact that we were able to run around setting flags up for so long makes it harder for it to be called earlier without being considered unfair.
Now just sell the fief to Partyboy so we never have to do that over again.
Tretter encouraging his faction's side to abuse a glitch while saying the FCC deserves it. How petty do you have to be man?
who cares lol, stop bitching about videogame bugs and unpaid admins actions about them, no one wants to actually kick or ban people for stupid shit that is no one's fault (except worthless devs, request your money back from meleegaming ASAP, i'd rather have rent then a fake shit game that will never be released)THIS IS STRATEGUS, HOW DARE YOU INSULT!
who cares lol, stop bitching about videogame bugs and unpaid admins actions about them, no one wants to actually kick or ban people for stupid shit that is no one's fault (except worthless devs, request your money back from meleegaming ASAP, i'd rather have rent then a fake shit game that will never be released)
Should probably note that the offending flag has been fixed (http://forum.meleegaming.com/scene-editing/strategus-city-improvement-project/msg766757/#msg766757) now, though there's still the matter of the change being uploaded into the next patch by whoever deals with that sort of thing.
Convenient that it got done right after we took the town, not 4 months ago when the bug was first revealed.
Can we all not just sit down together and hug it out and then agree that Canary is awesome, that Smoothrich should be made an admin again, and that Kesh should be permad again?
U DUM. Go back to EU and turtle up! If NA enjoyed hugging it out we wouldn't be having all these wars.But ain't war like essentially a lot of men camping together with no girls allowed? And in order to get a good stab at whoever you're fighting you gotta get real close to them.
But ain't war like essentially a lot of men camping together with no girls allowed? And in order to get a good stab at whoever you're fighting you gotta get real close to them.
So after taking the 45 minutes to read this whole thread i realized something. that's 45 minutes i will never get back. I earned almost 700k that night in the ~2 hours we fought. sooooooooooo don't know why everyone is railing on an unpaid volunteer admin who couldn't make a call in reality because he was fighting for a side also as I sit here thinking about it isn't there more then just 1 admin in the game???? and yes i think its stupid how everyone is really angry about it. Because in the big picture FCC still got the town and hosp didn't abuse the bug, they were telling there members to get out of the "unreachable" (FCC made it in there a ton) spawn. FCC coulda have asked for a sooner end if they had just capped all the flags instead of leaving them up. Because while those flags are still up hosp could still kill FCC tickets, which they did.
In the end FCC you still got your city so stop whining, canary haters your silly children or adults who have failed at life, and everyone else... well we had fun.
Your claim of the FCC making it in there a ton is also skewed. Please find the actual number of people that made in there, then post the time frame it took to figure out how to get in there, then figure out how much time the battle had left at the point of discovery, and finally list how many people died trying to figure out ways to reach that spot. If you can't, then don't try to manipulate the events to support your opinion.
That argument would have more credence if FCC actively put down flags when they could have (like 20 minutes into the battle). Then instead of farting around & spawn camping for a half hour that time could have been spent finding a way into the 'unreachable' flag location, & admins would have had more time to observe if people were able to get in/out, and if defenders were actively able/trying to get flags back or not.
If anything, that would have helped unmuddy the waters, since throughout the battle even though attackers COULD have controlled flags they weren't, which means defense was still putting up an active fight all around the map. It would have avoided the extra layer of required admin arbitration, and there would have been time to make that decision.
Hindsight has 20/20 vision, etc.
That argument would have more credence if FCC actively put down flags when they could have (like 20 minutes into the battle). Then instead of farting around & spawn camping for a half hour that time could have been spent finding a way into the 'unreachable' flag location, & admins would have had more time to observe if people were able to get in/out, and if defenders were actively able/trying to get flags back or not.
If anything, that would have helped unmuddy the waters, since throughout the battle even though attackers COULD have controlled flags they weren't, which means defense was still putting up an active fight all around the map. It would have avoided the extra layer of required admin arbitration, and there would have been time to make that decision.
Hindsight has 20/20 vision, etc.
I brought the issue to admin attention with 60min remaining. Also, we had 5 people dedicated to breaking into that spot since the start of the battle; the idea was to find a way into that spot and cap those flags while few/no enemies spawned there. unfortunately it took us about 70 minutes to actually get anyone into that spot and by that time those were the only enemy flags remaining and it was impossible for the couple of people who could make it in there to cap those flags. I asked early on if capping all other flags would lead to an admin decision and got the response "we will cross that bridge when we get there" which was not a very useful response. The result was that we continued with our original strategy for another 30minutes.
My argument is a request for facts, Shine. There is nothing wrong with what I requested. Whether it paints the picture in favor or against the FCC, its a request for facts. If someone can't produce the facts to back up their claims, then I wanted to make sure that people realized that his message is opinion-based.
Yeah canary was singularly unhelpful in this department. if we capped flags like "mrshine thought was a smart idea" every single person would be spawning in unreachable zone,Exactly, and if you did this earlier in the battle all the defenders would have all been spawning in the 'unreachable' location with a lot more time to spare, making it more clear that the only reason the defenders were still in the battle was because the spawn prevented people from getting out & in. I'm saying the waters would have been less muddied, which would have made an admin decision much easier.
If we had done mr shine's brilliant strategy we would have had 800 or more tickets left to fight because defenders died a LOT slower spawning in unreachable zone.The problem is you were trying to have your cake and eat it too. You tried to make a contingency (kill all defenders by spawncamping within the timelimit), but at the same time you expected admins to rule the fight in your favor if your contingency didn't work. Both plans worked against each-other & made things more confusing.
With no strong or clear admin decision-maker willing to actually do their job we had no choice but to do our best to kill all the population since that was the only other way to take it without losing an entire shiny 1900 man army to a bug head admin was afraid to make a decision on despite no doubt who had won.It's funny you say that, because the easiest thing we could have done is said "sorry, strat bug. submit a bug report". Technically defenders still had a flag up, and time expired. Technically defenders were still fighting on other flags, and some were able to get out and continue the fight. If you want to get technical about it, you could argue that admins shouldn't be making rulings on bugs like this, because it's really up to the developers to fix bugs & weigh in on these sorts of things.
You should view this as a positive thing - a big battle brought a bug front and center, and someone spent time to fix the bug. Now, when the fix will actually get patched is another issue entirely, but at least now we have precedence for how to handle this sort of situation in the future.
And matey called it in the battle - they finally submitted the ichamur fix as soon as we took it.
I'm posting in this thread because the situation sucked for everyone & I was there. A decision was made that benefited FCC but they/you still aren't happy about it, and that annoys me. I think it was good of Hospitaller to give the city up, and I hope that will be a good example for the rest of strat, where new bugs (and there WILL be new bugs) are handled reasonably between opposing factions.
Anyway, by continuing to post in this thread, MrShine continually digs his viewpoint into the anti-FCC camp. It's obvious that he is no longer able to make a neutral decision based on facts at this point, and its questionable if he was ever able to in the first place.
I'm posting in this thread because the situation sucked for everyone & I was there. A decision was made that benefited FCC but they/you still aren't happy about it, and that annoys me. I think it was good of Hospitaller to give the city up, and I hope that will be a good example for the rest of strat, where new bugs (and there WILL be new bugs) are handled reasonably between opposing factions.
..I don't see how that should discredit my decision making, but I'm sorry if you feel that way. Regarding an 'anti-FCC bias', just ask any other Astralis member how active I am in strat :lol: it's hard to develop a bias against a faction in strat when you hardly play.
So it sounds like the result of Canary's indecisiveness cost us ~300 of population, the loss of some troops and gear, but most importantly "not an hour" but 40 minutes of everyones' time.You can obviously read, so you should be able to see what is actually being argued here, but it is apparent that you are so anti-FCC you can't. Of course the decision did eventually benefit us. However, it was still costlier than it needed to be to our faction as well as other's. Occitan comes to mind. I am asking you guys to a better job and a better job all around. If you have checked some of my other posts, I continually ask for the rules to be clarified and expanded. There will be no decisions that will have to be defended if the rules are clear. Hell, you don't even have a solid structure for ban sentences, it's just whatever the admin at the time feels like. I offer suggestions, argue articulately, clearly express my views, and critique the current processes. But I suppose you write that all off as trolling.
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Exactly, and if you did this earlier in the battle all the defenders would have all been spawning in the 'unreachable' location with a lot more time to spare, making it more clear that the only reason the defenders were still in the battle was because the spawn prevented people from getting out & in. I'm saying the waters would have been less muddied, which would have made an admin decision much easier.
And based on your decision we would have lost 1900 shiny troops solely to bug. We were forced to try and kill the entire population exactly because you couldn't make a decision based on what was obviously taking place
The problem is you were trying to have your cake and eat it too. You tried to make a contingency (kill all defenders by spawncamping within the timelimit), but at the same time you expected admins to rule the fight in your favor if your contingency didn't work. Both plans worked against each-other & made things more confusing.
What happens when admins are too afraid and just play noncommittal - forced into having to do something we didn't really want to have to do, had absolutely no choice unless we wanted to lose all the troops and gear to the bug - namely kill the entire population, despite doing 10:1 k/d (minus the intentional tks to get into unreachable zone with horses or getting stuck in spikes trying to get there)
It's funny you say that, because the easiest thing we could have done is said "sorry, strat bug. submit a bug report". Technically defenders still had a flag up, and time expired. Technically defenders were still fighting on other flags, and some were able to get out and continue the fight. If you want to get technical about it, you could argue that admins shouldn't be making rulings on bugs like this, because it's really up to the developers to fix bugs & weigh in on these sorts of things.
Its funny because yous till didn't have the balls to make a decision, we had won at that point with 300 tickets to go and we were killing 100 and losing only 3 at that point in the chokepoint with full plate against unarmed peasants, so it was inevitable win though it would have delayed the next battle another hour, which was really the final decision - to stop the strat battle delay not "give" us something we already had in the bag. We would have lost most likely capping all other flags 20 minutes earlier (they were all capped for the last 20 minutes of the battle except the bugged one) as no admin acted upon the bug issue.
a big battle brought a bug front and center, and someone spent time to fix the bug. Now, when the fix will actually get patched is another issue entirely, but at least now we have precedence for how to handle this sort of situation in the future.
You got to be joking - we fought a battle with 3000 troops there 3 months earlier lost due to the bug and that wasn't enough to draw attention to it? No, it was probably fixed months ago and only submitted as soon as hosp lost the fief. And precedence for what? That admins will do absolutely nothing for fear of being judged for doing their job in a bug-riddled game that requires adminning issues to be resolved regarding those bugs?
I'm posting in this thread because the situation sucked for everyone & I was there. A decision was made that benefited FCC but they/you still aren't happy about it, and that annoys me. I think it was good of Hospitaller to give the city up, and I hope that will be a good example for the rest of strat, where new bugs (and there WILL be new bugs) are handled reasonably between opposing factions.
..I don't see how that should discredit my decision making, but I'm sorry if you feel that way. Regarding an 'anti-FCC bias', just ask any other Astralis member how active I am in strat :lol: it's hard to develop a bias against a faction in strat when you hardly play.
I dont think most people would put you on the list of admins that cannot act impartially, we really need some fresh blood and not just chaos people that are buddies with canary, get rid of the cronyism and diversify the adminships. And the decision didn't benefit FCC - we had already won based on what was happening it was just a question of how long the next 2 battles would be delayed. A decision that benefitted us based on actual awareness of what was taking place would have been letting it be known in the purple text that once all the flags were capped except the unreachable one that the city would be considered to be taken and kick people then. Would have given us 2000+ population. But no decision was ever really made so we won by killing everything, only possible by delaying capping flags by an extra 20-40 minutes. 300 left after timer up and we kill 100 and lose 3 just would have taken 30-60 minutes longer.