cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Arathian on April 12, 2013, 06:02:16 am

Title: Moderators in this community
Post by: Arathian on April 12, 2013, 06:02:16 am
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I will try to keep this civil. Hopefully others will too.

I haven't played c-rpg over a month. I was using that period to contemplate whether I actually wanted to come back. I decided I will, and this game's still worth and effort, so this is why we have this thread.

The mods of this community have tried to keep at least the pretences of being "neutral enforces of the written rules". Random bans and random actions are punished and, heck, a leak from the mod channel in IRC caused a whole witch hunt. Admins (who get selected by mods directly) are also expected to not ban randomly.

For this reason, we supported this developer team with our money. Because we believe you guys are professionally.

However, Shik doesn't really feel like following these rules, apparently. In case you missed the drama, the quick links to it are here

http://forum.meleegaming.com/game-admin-feedback/(global)-shik/165/
http://forum.meleegaming.com/global/irc-unban/

For the lazy ones:

BADPLAYER had made a ban request for racism then proceeded to make some statements that are, objectively, racist. I called him on his shit which resulted me in getting perma-banned in IRC. When I asked to be unbanned, he went into a full-on racist tirante. He never got banned from IRC.

Shik is Chinese. So is BADPLAYER. Most people say he is "trolling". I don't give a fuck if they are "trolling" or not because this stopped being funny a while back. BADPLAYER has been permabanned in the past for very serious offences and Shik bailed him out because he is his buddy. He goes on to break rules, he doesn't get banned because Shik's his buddy. He then proceeds to ban everybody that calls BADPLAYER on his shit.

I want to return to this game, but I can't if I know such mod abuse exists. It is simply not worth my time.

edit: I should mention it isn't just Shik. I tried to speak to other mods to solve this in a civil way, but they just decided to "ignore it and it will go away"

edit2: fixed title for clarity
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Muki on April 12, 2013, 06:12:53 am
Believe Badplayer is british not chinese; than again  I don't know him in rl
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Arathian on April 12, 2013, 06:13:31 am
Then he does have a very weird obsession with Chinese.
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Dooz on April 12, 2013, 06:24:58 am
Oh there's shitheads around here? Well god damn.
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Matey on April 12, 2013, 06:25:43 am
Quote from: Muki on April 12, 2013, 06:12:53 am
Believe Badplayer is british not chinese; than again  I don't know him in rl

He lives in Britain, no idea about whether he is Chinese or not.

to add a bit more fuel to the drama thread though... theres been plenty of examples of shitty things happening lately without any response from the devs at all. Admins appear to be trying to keep things under control but there are limits on what they can do and the devs dont seem to be offering them any support anymore... its a pretty bad situation.
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Arathian on April 12, 2013, 06:30:50 am
Quote from: Matey on April 12, 2013, 06:25:43 am
He lives in Britain, no idea about whether he is Chinese or not.

to add a bit more fuel to the drama thread though... theres been plenty of examples of shitty things happening lately without any response from the devs at all. Admins appear to be trying to keep things under control but there are limits on what they can do and the devs dont seem to be offering them any support anymore... its a pretty bad situation.

The game is still good...but this behaviour is very disheartening.
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: DUKE DICKBUTT on April 12, 2013, 06:41:45 am
Quote from: Matey on April 12, 2013, 06:25:43 am
He lives in Britain, no idea about whether he is Chinese or not.

to add a bit more fuel to the drama thread though... theres been plenty of examples of shitty things happening lately without any response from the devs at all. Admins appear to be trying to keep things under control but there are limits on what they can do and the devs dont seem to be offering them any support anymore... its a pretty bad situation.

I might argue that admins exacerbate the issues through inaction and selective enforcement.  Many admins choose which rules they want to enforce, and who they want to enforce these rules on, which means they aren't doing a complete job.  It doesn't help that most of the NA admin base is largely inactive, but the second we get an admin who does his job completely and backs up every word he has said is fired within hours.  When this happens, other admins who want to do a good job worry that if they are over zealous, they will lose their powers.  Yes, being an admin is inconvenient most of the time.  That is the nature of the beast.  Unfortunately, it is unpaid, too.  You can quit at any time, but most are addicted to the power that comes with it.  Maybe it's just the ability to kick leechers when you only have 1x, maybe you secretly like to grief other players or clans you hold a grudge against.  I have no idea.  But this just goes back to me saying in other threads that admins keep their powers in this community much longer than they would in other communities even when they are inactive or there are tell-tale signs of abuse or corruption.  For whatever reason, there is a feeling that there must be a great cost to give someone a trial period as admin when there is virtually no down side.  When you have more admins on, they will effectively police each other.  If one steps too far out of line, the others will report it.  But when there is only one admin at a time, like it has been lately, they are more or less free to do what they want.  And we've had a recent episode of that, which I'm sure no one wants to see happen again.

Also, I am a Chinese American, like Shik.  However, seeing a racial slur doesn't cause me to lose all sense and do whatever I can to hurt another person.  I just laugh at their pettiness and go on living my life.  I am here to play a video game, not fight for equal or civil rights and solve all of the worlds problems one IRC channel at a time.  Banning someone for saying something you don't like is like pulling a gun cause you got made fun of in school.  It is a cop out, something only cowards would do and not the sign of someone who is mental well-being.  I do not know much about Shik's stature, but I do know he has tried to sneak into my clan's Teamspeak and record us.  When called out on it, he just says "Well... you see..." and leaves the server.  Of course, he was in league with Smoothrich, and we all know what kind of stand up guy he is.  Though my exposure to Shik has not been particularly long lived or have my dealings with him been frequent, I do not feel he makes sound decisions and I do not feel he is a great person to have in this community, particularly in a position of power.
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on April 12, 2013, 06:42:49 am
The simple answer is to make Frank an admin so he can ban EU...

FRANK FOR PRESIDENT!
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Malaclypse on April 12, 2013, 07:03:23 am
If you make me admin, I promise equal apathy and not to enforce any rules on anyone.
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Kelugarn on April 12, 2013, 07:04:16 am
Carpet ban EU? I like it.
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Brrrak on April 12, 2013, 07:11:12 am
I bet Badplayer is cis-scum. :mrgreen:

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Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Christo on April 12, 2013, 07:14:10 am
Quote from: Arathian on April 12, 2013, 06:02:16 am
Drama thread incoming. This is your final warning.

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Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: no_rules_just_play on April 12, 2013, 07:38:41 am
Quote from: Matey on April 12, 2013, 06:25:43 am
He lives in Britain, no idea about whether he is Chinese or not.

to add a bit more fuel to the drama thread though... theres been plenty of examples of shitty things happening lately without any response from the devs at all. Admins appear to be trying to keep things under control but there are limits on what they can do and the devs dont seem to be offering them any support anymore... its a pretty bad situation.
i couldnt agree more, irc is flooded by people asking for help where only meow or the devs can help, the technical problems section is not even being looked at for the biggest it seems (this might be totally not true, but i get this feeling from the unanswered threads). We really need some sign of life except on the melee forum and a non-tagged picture in the announcements section.
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: BASNAK on April 12, 2013, 08:03:51 am
"You can't be racist towards white people" - This statement made my day.

Anyways I never saw any purpose in staying in Crpg's IRC. Unless I have some technical related question.
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Son Of Odin on April 12, 2013, 08:12:29 am
Create a thread titled "moderators in this community".

Imply that it's about mods in general.

Whine about Shik.

Shik not a moderator.

Wat you want?
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Gnjus on April 12, 2013, 08:14:34 am
WoW its really true what they say: one learns while he lives. Today I found out that Kesh is permabanned and that Badplayer is an even more of a dickhead imbecile then I initially believed him to be. Glory, glory hallelujah ! Allah is Merciful !
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Matey on April 12, 2013, 08:19:51 am
Quote from: Gnjus on April 12, 2013, 08:14:34 am
WoW its really true what they say: one learns while he lives. Today I found out that Kesh is permabanned and that Badplayer is an even more of a dickhead imbecile then I initially believed him to be. Glory, glory hallelujah ! Allah is Merciful !

actually, Kesh isn't banned. He was found innocent of all charges.
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: obitus on April 12, 2013, 08:25:13 am
Refusing to play because BADPLAYER got unbanned is dumb.

The reason to refuse to play is native village maps.
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: DUKE DICKBUTT on April 12, 2013, 08:26:53 am
Quote from: Son Of Odin on April 12, 2013, 08:12:29 am
Create a thread titled "moderators in this community".

Imply that it's about mods in general.

Whine about Shik.

Shik not a moderator.

Wat you want?

The term for his rank in IRC is moderator, I believe.
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Penguin on April 12, 2013, 08:32:41 am
I think the biggest tragedy is Catapults and siege equipment have been completely broken for weeks and the devs have not said a word about it. You see guys like cmp actively posting in other threads, so why not just take 5 seconds to say "we're working on it";even a "we plan on doing nothing" would be better than no response.
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Son Of Odin on April 12, 2013, 08:33:53 am
Quote from: DUKE DICKBUTT on April 12, 2013, 08:26:53 am
The term for his rank in IRC is moderator, I believe.
What does that have to do with anything?
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Duster on April 12, 2013, 08:34:34 am
Quote from: Son Of Odin on April 12, 2013, 08:33:53 am
I can't read!
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Son Of Odin on April 12, 2013, 08:41:11 am
Quote from: Duster on April 12, 2013, 08:34:34 am


Someone got banned from irc? Boohoo. Also moderator in irc pretty much means you're a dev and no I'm not going to read all those NA drama threads. Maybe I'll just scroll through to see if Christo posted his epic self quote and +1 it for tradition's sake, who knows...
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Prpavi on April 12, 2013, 08:43:52 am
Quote from: Son Of Odin on April 12, 2013, 08:41:11 am
Someone got banned from irc? Boohoo. Also moderator in irc pretty much means you're a dev and no I'm not going to read all those NA drama threads. Maybe I'll just scroll through to see if Christo posted his epic self quote and +1 it for tradition's sake, who knows...


oh snap, prepare for the shitstorm

p.s. IRC, Strat what is that, some sort of ancient artifacts from better long gone times?
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Muki on April 12, 2013, 08:44:10 am
Quote from: Son Of Odin on April 12, 2013, 08:41:11 am
Someone got banned from irc? Boohoo. Also moderator in irc pretty much means you're a dev and no I'm not going to read all those NA drama threads. Maybe I'll just scroll through to see if Christo posted his epic self quote and +1 it for tradition's sake, who knows...

I don't know what better EU drama or NA drama; than again Christo posts on those threads are always amusing
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Son Of Odin on April 12, 2013, 08:46:41 am
Quote from: Muki on April 12, 2013, 08:44:10 am
I don't know what better EU drama or NA drama; than again Christo posts on those threads are always amusing
I don't know either but then again I don't read either ones too closely. Only Christo posts :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Arathian on April 12, 2013, 08:58:11 am
Quote from: Son Of Odin on April 12, 2013, 08:12:29 am
Create a thread titled "moderators in this community".

Imply that it's about mods in general.

Whine about Shik.

Shik not a moderator.

Wat you want?

See my 2nd edit.

Other moderators are just ignoring this issue. When something is wrong, it is your duty to fix it and yet you simply don't and ignore all pleas to you are at the very least passively approving of it.
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Son Of Odin on April 12, 2013, 09:08:17 am
Quote from: Arathian on April 12, 2013, 08:58:11 am
When something is wrong, it is your duty to fix it and yet you simply don't and ignore all pleas to you are at the very least passively approving of it.

It's not my duty to fix or take sides on this matter. Every responsible moderator knows it's not the way to take a part in a lynch mob.
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: [ptx] on April 12, 2013, 09:11:17 am
Quote from: Son Of Odin on April 12, 2013, 09:08:17 am
It's not my duty to fix or take sides on this matter. Every responsible moderator knows it's not the way to take a part in a lynch mob.
But you just did...
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Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Son Of Odin on April 12, 2013, 09:12:08 am
Quote from: [ptx] on April 12, 2013, 09:11:17 am
But you just did...
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No I didn't!
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Arathian on April 12, 2013, 09:16:00 am
Quote from: Son Of Odin on April 12, 2013, 09:08:17 am
It's not my duty to fix or take sides on this matter. Every responsible moderator knows it's not the way to take a part in a lynch mob.

I am not asking the mods to lynch anybody. I repeatedly asked, nicely if I may add, to be unbanned. This whole thing happened right after the whole Keshian fiasco (in which Shik had given his approval) so I didn't want to steer up more trouble.

But hey, it takes 2 to tango.
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Son Of Odin on April 12, 2013, 09:23:32 am
Quote from: Arathian on April 12, 2013, 09:16:00 am
I am not asking the mods to lynch anybody. I repeatedly asked, nicely if I may add, to be unbanned. This whole thing happened right after the whole Keshian fiasco (in which Shik had given his approval) so I didn't want to steer up more trouble.

But hey, it takes 2 to tango.
Unbanning you is Shik's business (or whoever banned you) so you have to tango with him :wink:
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Molly on April 12, 2013, 10:01:55 am
Trying to force the other persons hand is one way to dance...  :D
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: IR_Kuoin on April 12, 2013, 10:10:25 am
I love drama in the morning hours.
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Son Of Odin on April 12, 2013, 10:23:20 am
Quote from: IR_Kuoin on April 12, 2013, 10:10:25 am
I love drama in the morning hours.
I don't... Just forget everything I've said in this thread. I need more coffee...
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Gnjus on April 12, 2013, 11:05:57 am
I've noticed a lot of people like Badplayer on this forum (no more names for the moment), who just like to spread their shit around. Some of that shit gets cleaned by the moderators while a lot of it remains so I'd recommend Baddie and his kind to consume these:

http://www.thisiswhyimbroke.com/shit-gold-pills

This way your shit will become more bearable for the rest.  :wink:
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Armpit_Sweat on April 12, 2013, 11:57:39 am
Quote from: Gnjus on April 12, 2013, 11:05:57 am
I've noticed a lot of people like Badplayer on this forum (no more names for the moment), who just like to spread their shit around. Some of that shit gets cleaned by the moderators while a lot of it remains so I'd recommend Baddie and his kind to consume these:

http://www.thisiswhyimbroke.com/shit-gold-pills

This way your shit will become more bearable for the rest.  :wink:

A fair offer! Had to sell one of my kidneys to afford it, but i bought enough of them pills, to lay a solid gold turd! Observe and envy:

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Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Kirman on April 12, 2013, 12:09:48 pm
Moderator? What  moderator?(Turkish Forum)  :lol:
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Joseph Porta on April 12, 2013, 12:13:57 pm
Favouritism broseph, especially in small communitys like these. The nerds back up their own nerds and then state they are objectively doing their things, and whos to stop them? Who will prove them wrong, or try without instantly getting stomped by half the community who instantly jumps on the "popular" bandwagon.

Also the reason im not talking to any of you fucking retards outside of this game/ forum, you are all messed up autistic nerds who think they are right 100% of the time and cannot say "hey, you are right! I was wrong" without scratching your own eyes out.

hehe, id just keep away from the the drama and do what I do, post everwhere but dont get personal with anyone, this way you also dont care wether come chinese geek tells off this other chinese geek.  :mrgreen:

Oh and sorry does not exist unless they cant get their fix(playime)
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: [ptx] on April 12, 2013, 12:20:31 pm
Woah, woah, calm down kiddoes. Tennenoth was supposed to post here, but he is lazy and british. :mad:

Anyhoo, from what i gather, Shik isn't really a "moderator" anymore (in whatever sense of the word), and this is basically just one big miscommunication right now.

Basically, the issue is that you are not unbanned from IRC. Not too sure whom to talk to about that, tbh. :(
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Vibe on April 12, 2013, 12:23:19 pm
Arathian I'll send you a goddamn IRCCloud invite so you can connect to IRC (and stay connected) and you can drop this topic
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Tennenoth on April 12, 2013, 12:29:05 pm
Quote from: [ptx] on April 12, 2013, 12:20:31 pm
Woah, woah, calm down kiddoes. Tennenoth was supposed to post here, but he is lazy and british. :mad:

Anyhoo, from what i gather, Shik isn't really a "moderator" anymore (in whatever sense of the word), and this is basically just one big miscommunication right now.

Basically, the issue is that you are not unbanned from IRC. Not too sure whom to talk to about that, tbh. :(

Careful or I will leak the chat logs!  :shock:
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: [ptx] on April 12, 2013, 12:32:56 pm
Noooo, not the
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Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Tennenoth on April 12, 2013, 12:37:04 pm
Yeah, then that'll put a stop to your
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Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Wesleysnipes on April 12, 2013, 02:13:00 pm
Everyone ignores Arathians point. It's like all of the regular Crpg players are peasents. We try to start a mutanty\ parley. Only to be ignored. It will always stay like this unless we all stop playing( which would be impossible because we all love this mod) and demand new players for high admin roles. Pretty pathetic for such a small group of players. Hey thanks for supporting us we look forward to work on Meele: BG. In return all we get is "thanks now fuck off".
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: chadz on April 12, 2013, 02:21:40 pm
The assumption that we are not dealing with wrongdoings, and that we are all sticking together, working against the community and laughing when they feel mistreated is simply wrong.

We take stuff like this serious, but we don't do public lynching; we have no intention of fueling flamewars, and handle matters like this internally. This starts with a talk/slap on the wrist, to more severe actions on multiple violations.

(this is more a reply in general, not to this situation per se. What I'm saying is keep reporting it when you feel mistreated, but don't expect us to take instant public actions. )
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Gnjus on April 12, 2013, 02:24:49 pm
Quote from: chadz on April 12, 2013, 02:21:40 pm
oh snap

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Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Armpit_Sweat on April 12, 2013, 02:32:00 pm
Quote from: Gnjus on April 12, 2013, 02:24:49 pm
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Hogard`? Or something... Final Fury game? 3 characters, left to right movement beat-them-up button smasher. Spent all my pocket moneys as a kid, playing this at local arcade...
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Brrrak on April 12, 2013, 02:37:49 pm
Hagar from Final Fight?
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Wesleysnipes on April 12, 2013, 02:53:03 pm
chadz, you're out of your gourd bro.
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: chadz on April 12, 2013, 03:03:21 pm
my what
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Armpit_Sweat on April 12, 2013, 03:06:18 pm
Quote from: chadz on April 12, 2013, 03:03:21 pm
my what

Your gourd:

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Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: EyeBeat on April 12, 2013, 03:11:36 pm
Final Fight was my favorite game when I was a kid.  First game I got on the SNES because one birthday I spent 40 dollars in tokens playing Final Fight in the arcade. 

Here is what I know about Haggar.

MIKE HAGGAR

Birthdate: September 3, 1941 (40 years old during MB, which was 1
year before elections, which was in 1982 according to FF:SW, retcon of
FF1's date or not!)
Age: 50 during FF2 prior to retcon; 46-47 with retcon
Height: 202 cm
Weight: 140 kg (MB series); 121 kg (FF series); 122 kg in FFT
Hails from, native place & stage: New York City, Manhattan, America
Likes: curry rice, hamburgers
Dislikes: crime
Hobby: being the mayor
Favorite/main attacks: screw piledriver, double lariat
MB-era wrestling federation:  AWF (American Wrestling Federation?)
MB & SMB specialty move: piledriver
MB-era nickname: "Mayor"


Muscle Bomber:  Mike "Macho" Haggar was a pro-wrestler and in the middle of elections [Official].  That's about it, really, since the game didn't even have character specific endings.


Super Muscle Bomber:  See above.


Final Fight One:  Haggar is now the mayor of the crime capital, Metro City.  He vows to clean up the place, and refuses to accept the bribes of the controlling gang, Mad Gear.  When Mad Gear hears about his
plans, they take immediate action and kidnap his daughter Jessica.  They attempt to use Jessica to blackmail Haggar.  With the help of Jessica's childhood friend Cody, and Cody's friend Guy, Haggar manages to defeat Mad Gear and send their leader Belger flying out the window of a tall sI love youcraper to his death, and Haggar was reunited with his daughter [From the game].

Street Fighter Zero 2:  Rolento, ex-member of Mad Gear, has started up his own army and laid siege to Metro City with tanks!  Fortunately, it didn't last too long [Conjecture based off in-game storylines].


Final Fight 2:  Mad Gear is still alive and they're trying to make a comeback.  Guy is away training to be a bushin master, but Mad Gear kidnapped his fiance, Rena, and her father, Genryusai.  Haggar, along with Rena's sister Maki and a boarder staying over at Haggar's, Carlos, must hit the streets again and defeat Mad Gear, this time around the world.  Eventually the new leader of Mad Gear Retu is sent flying out the window (Oh Mad Gear. When will you learn that windows are your downfall?) and Rena and Genryusai are saved [From the game].  Mad Gear is brought down, and eventually finally collapses within a year [Official].

FF2 Guidebook bio:
Was at one time a street fighter, presently he works hard as Metro City's mayor. For previous work, in order to rescue kidnapped daughter Jessica, together with Guy, and Cody, a struggle unfolded with Mad Gear. Recently in order to rescue Guy's master and his daughter kidnapped by the remnants of Mad Gear, he's come to travel the world over.


Final Fight Tough:  Will the crime never end?  A new gang, the Skull Cross Gang has risen to take Mad Gear's place.  Haggar, along with Metro City Special Crimes Unit member Lucia and Dean, who hates the Skull Cross Gang, must again hit the streets and clean up the city.  Unfortunately by the end, even though the gang was brought down, the city was left in ruins (of course, the city was in ruins since before Final Fight One anyway, though...). [From the game]

Haggar
Characteristic: very powerful, but very slow.
Sure-kill technique: spinning clothesline
Weapon of preference: steel pipe
Special ability: wrestling prowess to execute air throws
Super move: slam fest


Final Fight Streetwise:  It's been a long time since Haggar has been mayor (Haggar officially stopped being mayor at 1992, presumably because he was burnt out or it was simply too much work to be mayor and bust heads at the same time).  Kyle goes to see Haggar after seeing him in one of Cody's photos, and after Kyle helps him bust up some Punx at Mike's Maritime Maintenance pier, he teaches Kyle some moves and gives him some advice.  Haggar later is with Guy attempting to interrogate the scientist behind the drug GLOW, trying to be a 'good cop' to Guy's 'bad cop' and keeping Guy from using overly drastic measures.  Chang implicates Bella as the mastermind behind GLOW, and Haggar eventually has to let her go to help all of the people addicted to it. [from the game] (yea, Haggar doesn't appear in the ending.  Maybe it got chopped like many other things did)


Where he is now:  Probably still running Mike's Maritime Maintenance as well as his gym, Mike's Mat and Muscle, as well as beating up any punks who try to take over his pier and helping out where he can.
Kyle does say when he first sees Haggar in the game that he suspects Haggar will someday rise up again to try to fix Metro City with his fists.


Miscellaneous Facts and Notes

    FF1 Bio: Formerly a star of the professsional wrestling circuit,
Haggar is currently the mayor of Metro City.  Extremely powerful, Haggar's
specialty is executing wrestling moves like the back drop or the pile
driver.

Haggar's wife Nancy has died since before Final Fight 1 (and probably before
Muscle Bomber even), so Jessica is the only close family he has left.  This
is why he is really close to Jessica.

    Haggar was NOT "newly elected" in Final Fight One in the Japanese
verson.  That was added to the overseas version.  Haggar is simply
"The mayor of Metro City" in the Japanese version, which makes more
sense, given that he was elected to mayor 5 years before FF1.

Lucky Colt was picked up by Haggar and trained under him along with Aleksey
Zalazof (Both from Muscle Bomber).

    From a Muscle Bomber Flyer: How much entertainment cannot come out from
before him, a beat-out fight is his distinctive characteristic.

    In addition to wrestler, Haggar was also a street fighter before he
became mayor.  Dunno if that means he was in any Street Fighter tournaments
before SF1 (although it should be noted that the Street Fighter tournaments
aren't actually called "Street Fighter tournaments" in the storyline).

    He’s 40 years old during Muscle Bomber.

    He puts a lot of effort/power into maintaining the town's public order
and keeping the peace.  He has a natural sense of justice and power.

    For more on Haggar and Zangief, see Zangief's bio.

    For Final Fight Tough, Haggar gets an insanely long mullet for some
reason...

    Official statement is that he stopped being mayor two years after
Street Fighter Zero 3 (which would be 1992, which is also likely 1 year
after Final Fight Tough).  I don't know if he lost the election or simply
decided to retire from it (possibly because being mayor and busting heads
at the same time was too much work).  I suspect the latter, given that
people still seem to like Haggar in Streetwise (as opposed to hating
him enough to vote him out of office) and Haggar doesn't seem bitter
whatsoever about not being mayor anymore (in fact, he laughs to himself
good-naturedly when he tells Kyle, "You probably don't remember me.  Not
many people do, these days").  Perhaps he simply reached the maximum
legal term one may serve as mayor (he was mayor for exactly 10 years,
going by retconned age/date for elections during Muscle Bomber as well
as his Streetwise Election poster and the All About Capcom statement
of when his mayorship ended).

    Streetwise Website:  Once mayor of Metro City, Mike Haggar hates what
crime has done to it.  Yet, the legendary muscleman stays because of his
idealistic love for what the city once was, and hopefully could again be.
Though far from his years of power in City Hall, Haggar does what he can
to keep peace in his own corner of town.  And he keeps himself in solid
shape by training would-be pit fighters at his own gym, "Mike's Mat and
Muscle".

    His name was mispelled as Hagger in most press-releases for Streetwise,
but it was corrected by the time the game came out and is Haggar in both
the game and the manual.

    Haggar lay low after he left the mayorship according to Kyle's journal.
He manages Mike's Maritime Maintenance at the pier and his gym is Mike's
Mat and Muscle.

    In Final Fight Streetwise, a poster in Mike Haggar's gym reads "Haggar
for mayor in '82. Fighting for a safer Metro City."  Haggar was stated to
be in the middle of elections for Muscle and Super Muscle Bomber, and going
by officially stated age dates during Muscle Bomber and Final Fight One, then
taking into account that FF1's date was retconned to be in 1987 instead of
1989, this fits in perfectly with when Super Muscle Bomber likely occurred
(1982).

    Haggar seems to have kept in touch with both Guy and Cody by Streetwise.
Kyle picks up his message on his answering machine where he asks Cody if
he wants to basically hang out and get some drinks, and Haggar doesn't give
any indications that he hasn't seen Guy in a long time in the brief scene
where he and Guy are interrogating Chang.

    It is never directly stated how Haggar reacted to Cody getting thrown
in jail all the time.  Haggar got Lucia cleared of that corruption charge,
so you'd think he'd give Cody a mayoral pardon as well, but... I imagine
Cody probably didn't need one, given that it was stated that he got thrown
into jail and then simply punched his way out on more than one occasion.
Given that Streetwise showed that Haggar continued to hang out with Cody,
Haggar probably didn't bear any ill will to Cody for busting out of jail
so often, but when I think about it, this might be where Cody's dislikes
of "Haggar's lectures" come from (especially since I'm pretty sure that
dislike was added for Cody's SFZ3 bio).

    Far as I know, it's also never stated why Haggar has to go out to
the streets to bust punks himself instead of leaving it to the police.
Of course, police in general in Final Fight are always either portrayed
as corrupt (Edi. E and Dave) or simply over-tasked (Sgt. Sims and his men.
Other mini-quests in Streetwise show that cops are simply outnumbered
and outmanned in most of the things they try to do as well which is why
Kyle often has to help him out.  ...leading to cash rewards, of course)
so it is likely that Haggar simply couldn't rely on them.  And the one
police person he could rely on for help he had to clear of a corruption
charge (Lucia).

    Haggar probably buried the hatchet with Two.P.  You never see 2-Ill and
Haggar interact, but 2-Ill casually says "Oh, you mean Mike Haggar's place!"
to Kyle as if 2-Ill knows Haggar well and without a tone of "Haggar keeps
kicking my butt!  Eek!" in his voice.  Not that I know if there was a
hatchet in the first place but I imagine Haggar introduced Two.P's head
to the pavement a few times during Final Fight One (not that I can be
sure, what with Two.P just being a normal enemy).

    He mentions to Kyle that he still has some friends in the Metro City
Police in Streetwise that he'll try to get to help in searching for Cody,
but it's never brought up again and doesn't go anywhere.  I wonder if Lucia
was intended to be in the game.

Haggar would be pretty darn old by Streetwise if it's in 2006, around 64.
This is probably why they specifically emphasized in his official bio that
he 'keeps himself in solid shape' in order to excuse how he still manages
to be so strong despite his age.  Kinda funny imagining a muscular Oro
or Gen type, though.
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Overdriven on April 12, 2013, 03:13:57 pm
^ the heck?
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: EyeBeat on April 12, 2013, 03:18:25 pm
Quote from: Overdriven on April 12, 2013, 03:13:57 pm
^ the heck?

http://fightingstreet.com/folders/variousinfofolder/variousinfopages/streetfighterplotguide.txt

I caught myself reading this for 2 hours amazed by the information they have on just general enemies and bosses in the Final Fight and Street Fighter world. 
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on April 12, 2013, 03:21:54 pm
I understand you don't want to do any sort of public lynching, a simple "gotcha, we're looking into it" is all that is needed...we don't need to know how many blowies Shik had to give to retain his position  :P 

I believe Arathian was disappointed because of the total lack of response (as we've seen in other threads that are massively game breaking, like siege equipment being broken in strategus).   A simple "issue noted, working to address" is good enough for 99% of the community.

*EDIT* there's other issues i'm forgetting about that are pretty serious right now, like the 1/3rd attack rule in strat, if a city (Narra) has 30,000+ troops and 3000 population, someone would need to attack with 11,000 troops, and you can only burn through 1600 in the time allowed (maybe 2000 if everyone's rushing to their deaths, but the timer will still creep up on you)
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Casimir on April 12, 2013, 03:28:10 pm
Yes communicating that something is happening, if not to the public but to the reporter would help to quell such dissent.
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Tomas on April 12, 2013, 03:30:36 pm
Whilst I agree on devs/mods not getting involved in public debates on specific subjects/complaints.  There does still need to be acknowledgement of the complaints/issues and then closure once the matter is dealt with even if it is just a simple "This has now been dealt with internally" or "Case Closed"

The problem is not necessarily the devs/mods as individuals though.  It could be down to the processes (or lack thereof) by which they act.  The only properly functional process we seem to have is the unban/ban section where people write unban/ban requests/essays and then a mod/admin comes along and either accepts or rejects it.  This works, so why not apply it elsewhere too.
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Tennenoth on April 12, 2013, 04:05:46 pm
Well, once the "liaison" or "community proxy" is chosen, that issue will be solved. Steps do seem to be being made in the correct direction, just slowly.
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Kafein on April 12, 2013, 04:28:29 pm
About badplayer, is it fine to be that stupid ?

Evidence :

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Gnjus on April 12, 2013, 04:48:34 pm
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P.S.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Kafein on April 12, 2013, 04:50:40 pm
Quote from: Gnjus on April 12, 2013, 04:48:34 pm
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You racist, this white cunt man shouldn't be presented next to the glorious superior and oppressed minorities.
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Tomas on April 12, 2013, 04:58:00 pm
Quote from: Tennenoth on April 12, 2013, 04:05:46 pm
Well, once the "liaison" or "community proxy" is chosen, that issue will be solved. Steps do seem to be being made in the correct direction, just slowly.

I'm not sure one person is going to be able to solve this issue especially given they won't have any real power.  Personally I would say that there need to be the following setup (closely based on chadz' previously posted setup).

1) Head of Support
Role:
- Appointing and monitoring Admins, Moderators and Technical Support officers
- Prioritization of bugs to be fixed by devs with the authority to ask for urgent fixes
- designing the processes by which Admins, Moderators and Tech Support officers work
- requesting coded processes from devs if absolutely needed
Numbers: 1

2) Admins (still with Head Admins)
Role:
- handling bans, unbans and other punishments
- policing irc, forums and servers
- helping new players
- reporting bugs
Numbers: 5-10?

3) Moderators
Role:
- helping new players
- policing irc, forums and servers
- reporting issues to admins for further action if needed
- reporting bugs
Numbers: lots, the more the better

4) Technical Support
Role:
- fixing technical issues
- name changes
- offering advice for players having technical difficulties
- reporting bugs
Numbers: 4-6

You will notice that the day to day stuff is handled by the roles with lots of people doing the work.  The Head role is more of a liaising, monitoring and fire fighting role.  They have no extra powers so if they go on holiday or afk, a designated deputy can take their place temporarily.

Everything to do with new features and patches is then handled by the dev team (& item balancers) and its up to the devs to continue reading forums for good ideas.  Devs don't get involved in admin decisions though.  With enough time and discipline sticking to roles, I would hope that the devs can start posting a bit more in the forums without being hounded over admin and bug fix decisions :D
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Tennenoth on April 12, 2013, 05:00:13 pm
Quote from: Tomas on April 12, 2013, 04:58:00 pm
I'm not sure one person is going to be able to solve this issue especially given they won't have any real power.  Personally I would say that there need to be the following setup (closely based on chadz' previously posted setup).

1) Head of Support
Role:
- Appointing and monitoring Admins, Moderators and Technical Support officers
- Prioritization of bugs to be fixed by devs with the authority to ask for urgent fixes
- designing the processes by which Admins, Moderators and Tech Support officers work
- requesting coded processes from devs if absolutely needed
Numbers: 1

2) Admins (still with Head Admins)
Role:
- handling bans, unbans and other punishments
- policing irc, forums and servers
- helping new players
- reporting bugs
Numbers: 5-10?

3) Moderators
Role:
- helping new players
- policing irc, forums and servers
- reporting issues to admins for further action if needed
- reporting bugs
Numbers: lots, the more the better

4) Technical Support
Role:
- fixing technical issues
- name changes
- offering advice for players having technical difficulties
- reporting bugs
Numbers: 4-6

You will notice that the day to day stuff is handled by the roles with lots of people doing the work.  The Head role is more of a liaising, monitoring and fire fighting role.  They have no extra powers so if they go on holiday or afk, a designated deputy can take their place temporarily.

Everything to do with new features and patches is then handled by the dev team (& item balancers) and its up to the devs to continue reading forums for good ideas.  Devs don't get involved in admin decisions though.  With enough time and discipline sticking to roles, I would hope that the devs can start posting a bit more in the forums without being hounded over admin and bug fix decisions :D

I was talking about the lack of communication issue to be honest. A slight hint of irony there.
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Grumbs on April 12, 2013, 05:20:31 pm
Seems pretty obvious that Badplayer should get a similar ban to whoever else gets banned for racism. The whole concept of racism only applying to specific races is racist in itself.

So either ban anyone being racist regardless of race or don't ban anyone for racism. Pretty simple. Anyone who thinks otherwise should not be in a position to deal out punishments
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Armpit_Sweat on April 12, 2013, 05:21:39 pm
Quote from: Gnjus on April 12, 2013, 04:48:34 pm
You're all wrong, it is a plain random generic shark.  :wink:

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Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: RamsesXXIIX on April 12, 2013, 05:29:09 pm
Shik is the only reason I might regret my investment in M:BG.
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Tomas on April 12, 2013, 05:41:23 pm
Quote from: Tennenoth on April 12, 2013, 05:00:13 pm
I was talking about the lack of communication issue to be honest. A slight hint of irony there.

Is it good communication to use a 3rd person to run messages between 2 people??
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Tennenoth on April 12, 2013, 05:45:52 pm
Quote from: Tomas on April 12, 2013, 05:41:23 pm
Is it good communication to use a 3rd person to run messages between 2 people??

In this case, yes. There is a complete lack of communication now, and that is because there are too many voices in my opinion. If there is a go between, and the developers have set that up specifically to more or less force themselves to communicate (consolidate the mass of voices into one clear and concise one) then the chances are higher that the general population gains more information and contact.

Now there are just loads of people screaming about random things, with one person sifting through it and saying "this is useful, this is not" then there is less gunk getting in the way, with the pressure of one person doing their job set by the developers, they'll be more willing to answer.

Since there is very little to begin with, I don't know how much I can stress that making it easier for both parties will increase the chances of actually getting more.
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Tomas on April 12, 2013, 06:01:55 pm
Quote from: Tennenoth on April 12, 2013, 05:45:52 pm
In this case, yes. There is a complete lack of communication now, and that is because there are too many voices in my opinion. If there is a go between, and the developers have set that up specifically to more or less force themselves to communicate (consolidate the mass of voices into one clear and concise one) then the chances are higher that the general population gains more information and contact.

Now there are just loads of people screaming about random things, with one person sifting through it and saying "this is useful, this is not" then there is less gunk getting in the way, with the pressure of one person doing their job set by the developers, they'll be more willing to answer.

Since there is very little to begin with, I don't know how much I can stress that making it easier for both parties will increase the chances of actually getting more.

I disagree.  Whoever gets appointed will not be consolidating the mass of voices, they will be reading and then reforming those opinions based on their own opinions, judgement and personality even on a subconscious level.  There is no guarantee that the proxy will actually represent the community at all.  Far better that the devs read for themselves and form their own opinions.

Also - What will happen is that people will ask the community proxy something but then if they don't get a quick enough response or the answer they want they will just go and ask the person that they think the community proxy asked.

If I report a bug to the Head of Support and they turn around and immediately make a decision and tell me "thanks for the report, we know about it but it is a very low priority and is unlikely to be fixed soon" then I know that's it.

If i report a bug to a community proxy who says "Thanks for the report i'll ask a dev about it" then the next day I will ask the proxy if they have heard anything back.  The day after that I will ask again and be told "its not a priority and so won't be fixed" but I will question whether or not I am being fobbed off and so will attempt to circumvent the proxy for a direct answer from a dev and in this way everything breaks down.


The problem right now is that Devs essentially do or are jointly responsible for everything, even the stuff they don't like.  This means that whenever they enter the public realm they are harangued from all directions about all sorts of issues that they don't care about or don't want to have to care about.  This means they stop communicating over the stuff they do like to do.

Cut down their responsibilities and give authority to the community proxy (Head of Support as I called them) to make decisions on the stuff they have responsibility for.  Then people will go to the community proxy for community proxy stuff, to devs for dev stuff, admins for admin stuff and tech support for tech support stuff.  And if they do happen to go to the wrong person then a clear system will allow a quick 1 sentence response sending them to the correct person.

It is a massive failing of western society that we always treat the symptoms and never the source of problems
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on April 12, 2013, 06:13:47 pm
Quote from: Gnjus on April 12, 2013, 04:48:34 pm
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P.S.
(click to show/hide)

Pro Wrestling was a great fucking NES game
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Tennenoth on April 12, 2013, 06:52:17 pm
Quote from: Tomas on April 12, 2013, 06:01:55 pm
I disagree.  Whoever gets appointed will not be consolidating the mass of voices, they will be reading and then reforming those opinions based on their own opinions, judgement and personality even on a subconscious level.  There is no guarantee that the proxy will actually represent the community at all.  Far better that the devs read for themselves and form their own opinions.

Also - What will happen is that people will ask the community proxy something but then if they don't get a quick enough response or the answer they want they will just go and ask the person that they think the community proxy asked.

If I report a bug to the Head of Support and they turn around and immediately make a decision and tell me "thanks for the report, we know about it but it is a very low priority and is unlikely to be fixed soon" then I know that's it.

If i report a bug to a community proxy who says "Thanks for the report i'll ask a dev about it" then the next day I will ask the proxy if they have heard anything back.  The day after that I will ask again and be told "its not a priority and so won't be fixed" but I will question whether or not I am being fobbed off and so will attempt to circumvent the proxy for a direct answer from a dev and in this way everything breaks down.


The problem right now is that Devs essentially do or are jointly responsible for everything, even the stuff they don't like.  This means that whenever they enter the public realm they are harangued from all directions about all sorts of issues that they don't care about or don't want to have to care about.  This means they stop communicating over the stuff they do like to do.

Cut down their responsibilities and give authority to the community proxy (Head of Support as I called them) to make decisions on the stuff they have responsibility for.  Then people will go to the community proxy for community proxy stuff, to devs for dev stuff, admins for admin stuff and tech support for tech support stuff.  And if they do happen to go to the wrong person then a clear system will allow a quick 1 sentence response sending them to the correct person.

It is a massive failing of western society that we always treat the symptoms and never the source of problems

I'll try and address this in sections.

Biased: The proxy should point towards issues that they believe to be important, send links to threads and such like and ask questions pertaining to them, you're never going to get an unbiased set from it but at least you're going to get something - without them, there are too many people trying to chase things up, which the developers will just close down to.

Circumventing the proxy - Then you should be ignored, the support people, I do not believe, shouldn't be dealing with technical problems to begin with anyway, they should be helping with getting peoples accounts back and what not and not developing, so that's a different thing entirely. If you're trying to contact the developers directly, you'll probably get much the same "nothingness" that you get these days, so it would be fruitless.

Developers "likes & dislikes" - The proxy will be able to target things specifically, making things more manageable. There won't just be a torrent of rubbish.

I'm now confused on your usage of "head of support" - the system that was set out already (people having already applied for positions) had the a community proxy and the support as totally different things, which is what I have been running on throughout this conversation.

Trying to remove some of the issues will always allow for a clearer view of what happens so that we can improve, I see it personally as a television, there is just a load of white noise currently, static, nothing discernible, as we strip away the rubbish there is a picture behind it, we need someone to sift through the signals to unearth that picture. Then things can be sorted, categorised and eventually improved upon. One clear voice will help us do that.

Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Arathian on April 12, 2013, 06:58:09 pm
Quote from: Kafein on April 12, 2013, 04:28:29 pm
About badplayer, is it fine to be that stupid ?

Evidence :

(click to show/hide)

Apparently it is.

BADPLAYER made similar statements in IRC after which Shik proceeded to ban 3 people, none of whom being BADPLAYER.

Meh, admin communication does need some serious improvements.
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Wesleysnipes on April 12, 2013, 07:03:34 pm
Quote from: RamsesXXIIX on April 12, 2013, 05:29:09 pm
Shik is the only reason I might regret my investment in M:BG.

I agree. And there is nothing we can do! Parleyyyyyy chadz! Don't be out of da gourd!
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Kaoklai on April 12, 2013, 07:46:08 pm
希腊是土耳其的狗
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Overdriven on April 12, 2013, 07:53:11 pm
Quote from: Kaoklai on April 12, 2013, 07:46:08 pm
希腊是土耳其的狗

The hell did you minus two of us for saying nothing?
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Armpit_Sweat on April 12, 2013, 08:20:47 pm
Quote from: Overdriven on April 12, 2013, 07:53:11 pm
The hell did you minus two of us for saying nothing?

希腊是土耳其的狗, means - "you american pig, China will be prosperous"

I guess he is a bit angry about the recent hacking accusations...

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Aha-ha-ha! He is minus-ing all my posts too :) Kaoklai has a nerd tantrum rage it seems, we should call his mommy so she can change his diaper asap. Kaoklai, you should turn off your daddy's notebook, and go to sleep! It's well past your sleeping time. Don't forget to drink some warm milk, and wash your butt squeaky-clean, or your mommy won't give you a "special massage" you like so much.
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Kaoklai on April 12, 2013, 08:27:29 pm
祖鲁族民族

杀死所有的白人

Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: DUKE DICKBUTT on April 12, 2013, 08:55:01 pm
Quote from: chadz on April 12, 2013, 02:21:40 pm
The assumption that we are not dealing with wrongdoings, and that we are all sticking together, working against the community and laughing when they feel mistreated is simply wrong.

We take stuff like this serious, but we don't do public lynching; we have no intention of fueling flamewars, and handle matters like this internally. This starts with a talk/slap on the wrist, to more severe actions on multiple violations.

(this is more a reply in general, not to this situation per se. What I'm saying is keep reporting it when you feel mistreated, but don't expect us to take instant public actions. )

chadz, I feel like your team needs a lesson in PR.  Take this thread for example, Arathian makes a legitimate complaint.  The first person with authority to reply is Son of Odin, who presents apathy and even trolls tries to find humor in the situation.  He then says states the only way to get unbanned is to have Shik, the person who has already violated him perform the unban.  He had now not only presented no solution, but has implied there is no solution.  Now, your investor has no hope.

I hope you will consider that if your new game comes out, you will no longer be just a small group of modders.  You have taken public money and you need to start acting like a business.  In fact, since you've already taken the money and presumably spent some of it, you should start now.  You need to communicate well and outline the proper processes needed to get help.  You need to answer to your shareholders and investors, and do it in a timely manner.  When there is no response in a reasonable amount of time, you create hopelessness and it is perceived as apathy.  I've heard that finally producing patch notes was a big step for you, and it's good step towards your legitimacy.

My last word if advice is that the Community Proxy is a garbage job.  I know I am repeating myself, but what you really need is a Project Manager.  I suggest you pick someone who is already part of your team and holds crpg's interests first.  That is, if you have anyone on your team who is here to do anything other than troll the player base.
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on April 12, 2013, 09:05:43 pm
Duke DickButt everybody, the voice of reason
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Duster on April 12, 2013, 09:19:37 pm
https://translate.google.com/?q=%E5%B8%8C%E8%85%8A%E6%98%AF%E5%9C%9F%E8%80%B3%E5%85%B6%E7%9A%84%E7%8B%97&aq=f&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&sa=N&tab=wT
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Arathian on April 12, 2013, 09:41:53 pm
Quote from: Duster on April 12, 2013, 09:19:37 pm
https://translate.google.com/?q=%E5%B8%8C%E8%85%8A%E6%98%AF%E5%9C%9F%E8%80%B3%E5%85%B6%E7%9A%84%E7%8B%97&aq=f&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&sa=N&tab=wT

That's not racist either, of course.

Because, you know, Greeks have an endless white privilege. You see, we had slaves (and totally weren't enslaved) and colonized half the world.
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: cmp on April 12, 2013, 09:49:38 pm
Quote from: DUKE DICKBUTT on April 12, 2013, 08:55:01 pm
I hope you will consider that if your new game comes out, you will no longer be just a small group of modders.  You have taken public money and you need to start acting like a business.  In fact, since you've already taken the money and presumably spent some of it, you should start now.  You need to communicate well and outline the proper processes needed to get help.  You need to answer to your shareholders and investors, and do it in a timely manner.  When there is no response in a reasonable amount of time, you create hopelessness and it is perceived as apathy.  I've heard that finally producing patch notes was a big step for you, and it's good step towards your legitimacy.

You are correct. However, keep in mind that this will not change a thing for cRPG, because cRPG remains a free mod by a small group of modders and is completely unrelated to our next project.
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Falka on April 12, 2013, 09:56:52 pm
Quote from: Arathian on April 12, 2013, 09:41:53 pm
That's not racist either, of course.

of course it's not cause greeks arent race. Dumb greek.
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Matey on April 12, 2013, 10:03:56 pm
Quote from: cmpxchg8b on April 12, 2013, 09:49:38 pm
You are correct. However, keep in mind that this will not change a thing for cRPG, because cRPG remains a free mod by a small group of modders and is completely unrelated to our next project.

I really don't think you can argue that it is completely unrelated. The way you guys handle cRPG is absolutely having an influence on peoples expectations for the "next project". This can be seen by people who have decided not to support that next project at this time based on concerns they have in regards to how cRPG has been handled; once you release this new project then your actions in regards to it will be able to speak for themselves, but until then cRPG will continue to be the only thing that most of us have to judge your efforts by and while we are obviously impressed with what you guys have accomplished with cRPG we are not necessarily impressed with how you have handled a lot of community issues.
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: DUKE DICKBUTT on April 12, 2013, 10:06:01 pm
Quote
stupid race discussion
There is hardly the time or place for any of this.  In the real world, you have a country threatening to launch possibly nuclear missiles into another country and the latter country calling out to own their own nuclear weaponry.  Nearly every race has been mistreated at some point in history, and nearly every race will be mistreated again some time in the future.  This is not a contest of who was treated best or worst.

Quote from: cmpxchg8b on April 12, 2013, 09:49:38 pm
You are correct. However, keep in mind that this will not change a thing for cRPG, because cRPG remains a free mod by a small group of modders and is completely unrelated to our next project.

While that is true, it will not be uncommon to look at this as your track record.  Unless you are planning on hiring a third party to moderate or administer your new game, replace your admins from the top down or at the very least bring in consultants to audit your processes, is there any reason to believe that your new game will be handled differently?  The mods and devs who are lazy, unjust or petty, will pretty much be expected to remain the same way.  Changing to a new game does not suddenly make people more virtuous, unfortunately.  Your work ethic and character is going to be challenged in the coming years, in fact, since you have taken money you will be under the microscope even more so.

I personally have my own opinions of your project, but I will keep them as my own opinions until there is more to be seen.  And I apologize that my statements in this thread may seem like threats, its not the case.  But as someone who went to school for business, these are everyday facts of life and realities.
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Tomas on April 12, 2013, 10:16:29 pm
(click to show/hide)
Trying to remove some of the issues will always allow for a clearer view of what happens so that we can improve, I see it personally as a television, there is just a load of white noise currently, static, nothing discernible, as we strip away the rubbish there is a picture behind it, we need someone to sift through the signals to unearth that picture. Then things can be sorted, categorised and eventually improved upon. One clear voice will help us do that.
[/quote]

This is wrong.  You should never treat the issues and should always try to find the cause of the problems and fix that.  If you treat issues then you will never know if you have actually fixed the problem and it is more than likely to come back later and often worse.  You also end up with layer upon layer of fixes, complicating the process and making it inefficient.

chadz' system was almost the same as what I described except that he had a community proxy between the crpg workers (admins, devs, mods, etc) and the community.  To me this just encourages workers not to interact with the community, isolating them further and creating even more of a "boys club" image which the community proxy has no power to change.  Yes the devs, etc will almost certainly ignore anybody trying to contact them directly, but even choosing to ignore something takes time unless you automatically ignore everything and in this case you could be ignoring important stuff. 

We've effectively had an empowered but unofficial community proxy for ages with Meow and look what happens when he goes afk.  Where Meow had authority things seem to have worked well. People would go to Meow with an issues and Meow would get somebody to deal with it.  Where Meow had powers things worked but they did not work well because Meow was the only one with these powers so without him things didn't happen.  Where Meow had no power and no authority, things were a mess but people would still ask him about it.  Now we want someone to do what Meow did but with no authority or power at all?

My change is to remove the community proxy, which straight away keeps the community and workers closer together, and instead use a Head of Support role between chadz and the Day to Day support workers.  However the Head of Support doesn't actually do the day to day stuff (although they will have access to the powers) they just oversee it, make strategic decisions and provide a link between admins and the devs.  It achieves the same aim as the proxy which is to create a buffer between the devs/chadz and day to day community issues but it doesn't remove all the direct links.
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Wesleysnipes on April 12, 2013, 10:28:18 pm
Great job with your last post murder! You really changed my perspective in a great way. Wow, I would hire you for my framing company as an account.
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: DUKE DICKBUTT on April 12, 2013, 10:35:07 pm
Quote from: Tomas on April 12, 2013, 10:16:29 pm
(click to show/hide)
This is a good post and my only complaint is that I can only +1 it once.  It seems we are on the same page here.  I would call the position a Project Manager, but we are just splitting hairs here.

Quote from: Wesleysnipes on April 12, 2013, 10:28:18 pm
Great job with your last post DUKE DICKBUTT! You really changed my perspective in a great way. Wow, I would hire you for my framing company as an account.

Unfortunately, Wesley, accounting was one of the courses I neglected to take.  It would have added another semester in order for me to get my degree.
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Wesleysnipes on April 12, 2013, 10:37:42 pm
We have so many men and women in this community that can do such a great job maintaining cRPG. I wish they were chosen to do so.
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: [ptx] on April 12, 2013, 10:52:22 pm
I vote DUKE DICKBUTT the cRPG player with the most unfitting name.
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Paul on April 12, 2013, 10:53:46 pm
Didn't read the thread but damn... Pick up the soap avatar, gas who signatur, full retard political stance - I can't help but side with Shik in this case. Kinda sad that with the commercial Melee taking out the trash won't be possible anymore like it is now in the mod cRPG.
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Kafein on April 12, 2013, 11:00:21 pm
Quote from: cmpxchg8b on April 12, 2013, 09:49:38 pm
You are correct. However, keep in mind that this will not change a thing for cRPG, because cRPG remains a free mod by a small group of modders and is completely unrelated to our next project.

I understand that what I'm going to say is 100% unfair, but there's no way your supporters and the general public will make this separation. To the exterior world, the chadz crew is a serious bunch of people, or it is not. You cannot be professional about something and completely unprofessional about another thing. Actually you can, but nobody will understand that the way you mean it.

Quote from: Paul on April 12, 2013, 10:53:46 pm
Didn't read the thread but damn... Pick up the soap avatar, gas who signatur, full retard political stance - I can't help but side with Shik in this case. Kinda sad that with the commercial Melee taking out the trash won't be possible anymore like it is now in the mod cRPG.

I agree on nothing with Arathian when it comes to politics, but views expressed by badplayer and if I get this correctly, defended by shik are orders of magnitude worse.
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Paul on April 12, 2013, 11:13:17 pm
Well, let's compromise with banning badplayer too. He is trash as well. On a different coordinate axis though.
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Grumbs on April 12, 2013, 11:36:16 pm
Quote from: Paul on April 12, 2013, 10:53:46 pm
Didn't read the thread but damn... Pick up the soap avatar, gas who signatur, full retard political stance - I can't help but side with Shik in this case. Kinda sad that with the commercial Melee taking out the trash won't be possible anymore like it is now in the mod cRPG.

You should probably read the relevant info before taking a side. Just because one side might have a bad viewpoint, that doesn't mean the other side is automatically worth supporting.
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Osiris on April 12, 2013, 11:39:00 pm
Hell that's my irc unban thread anyway! Hijacker! I'm not trash i just dared to disagree with shik/badsview :-(
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Relit on April 12, 2013, 11:42:43 pm
Quote from: Paul on April 12, 2013, 10:53:46 pm
Didn't read the thread but damn... Pick up the soap avatar, gas who signatur, full retard political stance - I can't help but side with Shik in this case. Kinda sad that with the commercial Melee taking out the trash won't be possible anymore like it is now in the mod cRPG.

Self-admitted to be uninformed on this topic and decides to post anyway. You sir, deserve a slow clap.
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Wesleysnipes on April 12, 2013, 11:45:09 pm
Fuckkkin developers already bias. See gentlemen, nothing will change.
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Wesleysnipes on April 13, 2013, 12:02:55 am
And don't critize someones humor (their avatar or signature). Yo yo Paul quit acting like a goo goo doll. Ill light you up when you be shoppin at the mall. Acting all tall because you got the yellow developer labels, shit son I think you ot to play fable. While I enjoy my pancakes and Canadian maple.

I'll shoot you like a rat, hit you with my louisville slugger, man quit posting like a slug. I'll stop on you like a bug. You shrug people off. Act like you work at fort Knox. While you jack off to Megan fox. Go comb your hair like goldie locks. Damn son. Now why don't you make a pun and we'll keep feeling shunned.

Lol I'm done. I'll keep drinking tonight.
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: Kafein on April 13, 2013, 02:55:46 am
This thread keeps getting better
Title: Re: Moderators in this community
Post by: cmp on April 13, 2013, 03:21:58 am
Quote from: Kafein on April 12, 2013, 11:00:21 pm
I understand that what I'm going to say is 100% unfair, but there's no way your supporters and the general public will make this separation.

I'm sure there will be some people who refuse to accept that (see above), but I don't think they will be a problem.
Anyway, this is not the place to talk about this, and given that chadz has already replied to the OP I think there's no need to keep the thread open.