cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: CrazyCracka420 on April 08, 2013, 05:48:19 pm
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Sometimes my horse will get "stopped" after running over 1 person if I'm not at max speed (riding a +3 courser with 19 charge). Even on a +3 destrier in strat battles my horse was getting stopped completely after going through 3 people, sometimes only 2. A human is not going to completely stop a horse...I don't see how having armor on the horse would make them able to charge any better or worse...
/oblig:
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The worst thing is that even when you do manage to push past a player, there is still a 1/2 second or so delay when you impact. You hit them, stick for a second, and then either knock them down are are stuck as if against a brick wall. It means that an infantry that is too slow attacking gets an extra timeframe where you have hit them with your horse, but are immobile and they can still swing and hit you.
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The thing is that this game is not balanced around reality. And from the bump damage nerf and its effects it seems to me that the devs wanted to (more or less) completely remove the bump feature from light horses. On one hand to give the (massively underused) armoured horses a purpose, on the other hand to remove the rather lame feature of having guaranteed knockdown as reward for keeping [W] pressed. The high mobility and all the advantages it brings is enough of a reward for paying horse upkeep and riding skill points. If this is the attitude of the devs, I think I have to agree.
For light lancer cavalry this means: do not touch your target, and stay away from bigger groups. You are something like a melee skirmisher, which means you have to cruise and attack on opportunity. Which means you can't dictate your encounters 100% of the time any more, like you did before with riding-stabbing target #1-ridign-stabbing target #2-riding...
I don't know what I can say about 1hd cav, because it needed to rely on bumpslashing, but as I consider bumpslashing as quite close to the border of lameness, I am not sure it's a bad thing. Perhaps from now on 1hd cav needs to be heavy. Although I would agree that 1hd WPF could increase horse bump dmg, as unlogical this might sound.
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I get stopped if I play poorly, but it's been easier than ever on my Rouncey. Knockdown is also still pretty good. You get it reliably if you bump at a good speed. Making it harder to knockdown also makes it much easier to bump lance.
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I get stopped if I play poorly
^
Light cav is finally in a decent place. Higher riding skill/more agility = greater speed bonus = greater momentum. With 9 riding on my Great Lance alt I almost never get stopped from impact, but with 5 riding it happened a lot more often. What this meant is I was using my light horse and minimal/adequate riding wrong; I'm supposed to be hitting them with my weapon, not my mount, in most cases.
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If bumps are so innacceptable, they should be replaced by cav pushing people around instead. Humans acting as concrete walls for horses under some arbitrary speed just doesn't make any sense.
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If bumps are so innacceptable, they should be replaced by cav pushing people around instead. Humans acting as concrete walls for horses under some arbitrary speed just doesn't make any sense.
That'd be really nice.
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If bumps are so innacceptable, they should be replaced by cav pushing people around instead. Humans acting as concrete walls for horses under some arbitrary speed just doesn't make any sense.
Seems like a lot of effort
As a cav player, I don't mind this. It encourages cav to actually use horses suited to their class. There's less arabian bundle of stickss now :P
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What speaks against actually having to look where you ride?
It's not like infantry could just push enemy infantry aside...
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In terms of realism, sure, horses should be able to trample far easier than they do in game. But for balance, this was needed and a long time coming, and separates bad cav (AKA bump intensive cav) from good cav. It's not like you can't still bump with light horses- like I said, get higher riding, move faster, learn your limitations or use a heavier horse with higher charge rating.
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The very low charge values is how it was in old crpg.
In the end infantry learned to jump into horses to stop them :lol:
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Charge damage got it's damage multiplier increased from I think 1x to 1.5x a long time ago and since then charge damage has been OP so it's good it was lowered finally.
The heavier horses need less charge damage still though.
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I can get behind the damage decrease. After so many battles against a fleet of Destriers, I can see why it needed nerfing. However, the knockdown ability should not have been messed with. An added side effect is that we're getting increased horse gliding bugs due to the nerf. Also, the maps being generally poorly designed are adding to the difficulty. IE, you bump a peasant then get stuck on a small bump in the ground because you're no longer going fast enough to clear it.
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Increase manoeuvre :wink:
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Increase manoeuvre :wink:
Yeah, implement riding which feels like this:
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Seems legit to me.
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Biased! Biased! You are biased! You... you... BIASER! :mad:
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It's Marvel - ofc it's legit.
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Horses have such crappy maneuver, cav is commited to an attack 2 seconds in advance, which is huge. Targeting people dead center is the only way to reliably hit them with something, be it your horse or your weapon. With current horse stats, that simply does not depend on the rider.
Of course when they are not playing attention at all and nobody else is putting you in danger you can slow down and make things a little bit easier, but that is quite a rare occurence.
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Ok, playing CRpg on a horse is challenging, we all get it, but I think that these new updates separate the men from the boys, so to speak. No longer can cavalry ride around willy-nilly in battle servers, where nearly nothing can touch them.
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Ok, playing CRpg on a horse is challenging, we all get it, but I think that these new updates separate the men from the boys, so to speak. No longer can cavalry ride around willy-nilly in battle servers, where nearly nothing can touch them.
Except 3 arrows and they are not horsemen anymore ? Melee cav has to come into range to hit you. If you don't hit them first or at the very least block or dodge, it's your own goddamn fault.
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I don't mind the low charge damage factor. I don't mind there being no knockdown below a certain speed. But I DO mind that a 1.5 ton animal can't push past a 150 lb man. Arnold Scwarzenegger in his heyday couldn't have stood there like an unmovable brick wall if a horse wanted past. Knocked down? No. Pushed by? Yes.
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Now that we're all used to it, I'm still fine with it. Bump stabbing with a lance is extremely easy since you can control your bumps much easier. You also annoy teammates less.
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I wouldn't mind the damage being reduced further to bumps, but getting stuck on one person because of a slight incline is ridiculous. It's a massive fucking animal, you'd be on the ground and lucky that it didn't break your leg or arm as it was stepping on you.
They reduced the charge too much on some of the lighter horses (even the destrier is pretty pathetic if you run into a tiny incline in the map).
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Don't see you complaining about unarmoured horses with jarids stuck in their neck riding around like it's just a mosquito bite.
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Make a thread for it sir, don't see what that has to do with the pathetic ability to push past a person when you're riding a horse and someone is standing in front of you
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I'm sorry but I didn't understand anything from this thread. If I ride over someone, I always do (back in the day). Never had any problems with it. How exactly do you get blocked by someone?
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They lowered the "charge" quite a bit on the lighter horses about a month or so ago. Even riding a champion destrier at full speed, there's times where 1 person will stop your horse in it's tracks (or you will slow down so much that the person you knocked over can hit your horse 3 times before you get away). Usually happens if they are on a slight incline, and lots of times if I run someone over, my horse will get stopped by running into the person behind them.
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They lowered the "charge" quite a bit on the lighter horses about a month or so ago. Even riding a champion destrier at full speed, there's times where 1 person will stop your horse in it's tracks (or you will slow down so much that the person you knocked over can hit your horse 3 times before you get away). Usually happens if they are on a slight incline, and lots of times if I run someone over, my horse will get stopped by running into the person behind them.
BULLSHIT
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I'm sorry but I didn't understand anything from this thread. If I ride over someone, I always do (back in the day). Never had any problems with it. How exactly do you get blocked by someone?
By going anything less than a gallop. Bump into someone. They stop your horse like a concrete pole. If you charge attack someone against a rock and your horse stops, you can't just ride off. If the enemy player is within about 70-80 degrees of the front of your horse, it will not move. You almost have to rotate 180 degrees away to ride off, else it is like you are trying to ride through a wall.
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Don't see you complaining about unarmoured horses with jarids stuck in their neck riding around like it's just a mosquito bite.
What is supposed to be human beings can eat half dozen solid sword hits without dying, I think horses should be able to do better (tip : they do worse)
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People are having quite a different experience than me, then. My +3 Rouncey takes tons of hits before going down, and I can bump without too much difficulty. When I do bump someone, my horse does get stuck for a second, causing my teammates to hit my horse a lot of times, though. That's pretty much it. However, it's hard to tell if I am stuck or just that weird teleport glitch causing lag.
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What is supposed to be human beings can eat half dozen solid sword hits without dying, I think horses should be able to do better (tip : they do worse)
Are you claiming cav in c-rpg take less hits than players when not colliding with a weapon at full speed? (besides the really extra light ones)
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New gameplay for archers: don't kite any more, but equip a melee weapon, stand ground and fight.
New gameplay for crossbowmen: don't equip so much equipment any more that you are both a good ranged and a decent melee build.
New gameplay for infantry in general: you can't turn and rotate like a helicopter any more when attacking vertically.
New gameplay for horses: you can't use your horse to deal damage or knock down people any more, only use it as a means of transportation to* get to your enemy, attack him and get away again.
If cavalry were gangstas, they used to drive over somebody and shoot him in the process. Now they are forced to do driveby-shootings, to not damage their pimped car.
* to = ride NEXT to him, don't touch him. Group of people? Stay away from them, same rule like for any other class which is outnumbered.
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Are you claiming cav in c-rpg take less hits than players when not colliding with a weapon at full speed? (besides the really extra light ones)
If you play properly (aka hitting their legs), yes. And it is pretty evident.
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By going anything less than a gallop. Bump into someone. They stop your horse like a concrete pole. If you charge attack someone against a rock and your horse stops, you can't just ride off. If the enemy player is within about 70-80 degrees of the front of your horse, it will not move. You almost have to rotate 180 degrees away to ride off, else it is like you are trying to ride through a wall.
I never had this problem :?
Maybe you're moving too slow, or maybe the problem is only on NA servers or with low riding skill?
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I never had this problem :?
Maybe you're moving too slow, or maybe the problem is only on NA servers or with low riding skill?
Try reading what he wrote again. He is starting from standing still and trying to push through enemies.
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Oh my bad. Now I see the problem.
Well that is something hardcoded in warband engine probably. The horses were never intended to be so weak charge-wise and manuever-wise.
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It happened yesterday when I was on a champion destrier I corralled from the battlefield. I was on completely flat ground going full speed, knocked over the first guy, and came to a complete stop on the 2nd guy behind him. With 6 riding.
It is a problem for me, I just try to avoid running over more than one person on my horse. And honestly, I wouldn't mind if they made the damage from horse bumping back to native levels (basically does no damage) if my horse didn't come to a complete stop every time they brushed past a person who weighs 4 or 5 times less than my horse. But even running over one person right now is pretty dangerous because of how much your horse gets slowed down.
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Also, now most bumps knock people over (using heavy horses at least). While that may sound like a buff to cav, it basically makes bumpslashing impossible.
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I always wonder why people people think their class should make them...
... damage other players...
... break their block...
... knock them down...
... do all those things to several enemies simultaneously, like some kind of weird Area-effect-horse-bomb...
for the price of a few points riding skill, horse upkeep (which does not hurt people who are trading on the market) and the enormous skill requirement of... pressing [W]?