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cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: kinngrimm on May 02, 2011, 02:53:44 am

Title: Infantry and Cav Protection
Post by: kinngrimm on May 02, 2011, 02:53:44 am
The slot system was introduced as far as i understand for balancing purposes. Very well.

Is a polearm or 2h or pure 1h guy who uses 2 weapons with different functions to handle different enemies a hybrid?
Is a 1h/shielder a hybrid?
Is a hoplite polearm/shield a hybrid?
Is a 1h/shield with no or view left over points in polearm carrying a spear a hybrid?
Is someone carrying only shields of any use? If not at least one additional weapon would define a class.

What majorly upsets me is, that i cant wear any kind of spear anymore even if i got one spare slot. And dont get me started you could use another shield, in my case my 3 main weapons sitesword/battle axe/bamboo spear and my huscarl got nerfed so just don't start a discussion here i shouldn't use my huscarl and use a ligthweigth shield isntead. If you argue that way, then i say make all shields the same liek you did it with the 1h weapons, which are majorly all the same now and i dont complain about that.

1. Slot 1h weapon
2. Slot free
3./4. Slot Shield

So wtf should i do with that one slot if i want cav protection?

OR to say it in another way.

Please give me something to STOP cav witch fits into one slot. I don't want to kill em with that, i only want to be able to stop them. Is that too much to ask? Even with spear in 40-60% of cases if cav attacked me intelligently they killed me while i had a bamboo spear. But they didn't get me easily? It was fun to battle with cavs that way. Where are my cav oponents? I had with several cavs long fights and when i died i was ok with it, because i did know i did all what i could. Now i know i could but i am not allowed anymore. What do you think should infantry 1h/shield be able to wear some spear long poking thingy to stop you if you are acting silly or do you just want to slaughter anything beneth your high horses?

Something long which does not do any damage would be ok for me, i only want to stop them, then i switch to 1h and try to give em some strikes.


EDIT: How did the cav nerf go? anything taken back in hotfix? Does that change the careful balance you discussed over months and made plans about them? If they got now stronger again but u nerfed all other stuff .. i guess you get my drift.
Title: Re: Infantry and Cav Protection
Post by: okiN on May 02, 2011, 02:57:03 am
If you really have to have that huscarl shield, use a shortened spear. One slot.

/thread
Title: Re: Infantry and Cav Protection
Post by: EponiCo on May 02, 2011, 02:57:31 am
Quarterstaff.
Title: Re: Infantry and Cav Protection
Post by: okiN on May 02, 2011, 02:58:58 am
Also works. Little bit longer.
Title: Re: Infantry and Cav Protection
Post by: Gorath on May 02, 2011, 03:01:17 am
Yup, pretty much what they said.

I'm back to playing hoplite style on Vyrus and it works fine.

1her
elite cav shield/ heater shield (depending on mood)
warspear
Title: Re: Infantry and Cav Protection
Post by: Tzar on May 02, 2011, 03:03:25 am
Wooden stick  :lol:

But yeah i get it it sucks lol

PLz make us be able to build my old friend_Dado clones to have as rear gaurd when advancing on open plain map plz chadz
Title: Re: Infantry and Cav Protection
Post by: kinngrimm on May 02, 2011, 03:04:30 am
Quote from: okiN on May 02, 2011, 02:57:03 am
If you really have to have that huscarl shield, use a shortened spear. One slot.

/thread
weapon - length
shortened spear - 120
Long Espada -  103
Ligth Lance - 175
Lance - 180
Great Lance - 230

Okin you are a funny guy i give you that.
If i have some food in my teeth i'll ask you for that shortened spear.
But if someone with fullspeed is coming from behind with a lance the only thing i can do atm is bringing up my shield and get bumped to death. That is not even fun for the horse man in the long run, thats like dtv zombi slashing.
Title: Re: Infantry and Cav Protection
Post by: Sayton on May 02, 2011, 03:06:30 am
I like how it works now.
If you want to have a whole arsenal with you, you'll have to choose more 1 slot stuff. But if you want to specialize, you can get better stuff that uses 2 slots.
Gives more purpose to the low end weapons.

It also gives some responsibility to the pike guys and promotes teamwork.
Title: Re: Infantry and Cav Protection
Post by: okiN on May 02, 2011, 03:12:30 am
Quote from: kinngrimm on May 02, 2011, 03:04:30 am
Okin you are a funny guy i give you that.
If i have some food in my teeth i'll ask you for that shortened spear.
But if someone with fullspeed is coming from behind with a lance the only thing i can do atm is bringing up my shield and get bumped to death. That is not even fun for the horse man in the long run, thats like dtv zombi slashing.

It's long enough to get a stab in if you can dodge the lance tip. Either that or just evade the charge altogether if you don't want to risk it. If you want a longer spear, well... use a smaller shield. Heavy kite is nothing to sneeze at. Slot system isn't universally loved, sure, but it seems to me you're going to have to just deal with it.
Title: Re: Infantry and Cav Protection
Post by: Cyclopsided on May 02, 2011, 03:27:37 am
Don't run around alone. This is a team game.
There are many dedicated pikemen looking for shielders to roam with.
If you are a lone-wolf guy who thinks he should be able to counter everything without teamwork as a 1h/shielder -- don't post again.


Thanks to a reduction in hybridization, This is now more team oriented as it should be.
That is all.
Title: Re: Infantry and Cav Protection
Post by: Casimir on May 02, 2011, 03:35:59 am
Having played alot as a pikeman ive got to day its depressing seeing a teamate getting raped by cav and knowing you cant save him.


He should have stayed with the group i tell myself, but i still feel sad :(
Title: Re: Infantry and Cav Protection
Post by: DarkFox on May 02, 2011, 05:48:27 am
You know,I  once killed cav with a knife :twisted:(epic moment).Warband is not paper rock scissors game,use terrain,use short spear or just stay with teamates.
Title: Re: Infantry and Cav Protection
Post by: Malaclypse on May 02, 2011, 06:24:21 am
Gotta agree with Marathon on this one.
Title: Re: Infantry and Cav Protection
Post by: Gnjus on May 02, 2011, 07:52:18 am
Quote from: Marathon on May 02, 2011, 03:27:37 am
Don't run around alone. This is a team game.

...but...but....Kinngrimm is a Wolver.....that's what they do for a living....they roam the countryside in search for easy pray which they can backstab/finish off/gank.........it's the only way they can get some kills and now it's being taken away from 'em ?   :shock:
Title: Re: Infantry and Cav Protection
Post by: Kalam on May 02, 2011, 08:04:07 am
As someone who plays a 1h/shield, I've got about a 50/50 ratio with taking horsemen out with my italian sword. I know others who do better with their one-handers, and it'd be even easier with a shortened spear. Whine less!
Title: Re: Infantry and Cav Protection
Post by: EponiCo on May 02, 2011, 08:11:00 am
Well, you can't kill an aware lancer with a 1h.
But then a lancer can't kill you if you just hold downblock.
So the other option, really, get more armor, with just mail shirt noone is going to run over you until you are dead.
Title: Re: Infantry and Cav Protection
Post by: kinngrimm on May 02, 2011, 12:04:51 pm
Quote from: Gnjus on May 02, 2011, 07:52:18 am
...but...but....Kinngrimm is a Wolver.....that's what they do for a living....they roam the countryside in search for easy pray which they can backstab/finish off/gank.........it's the only way they can get some kills and now it's being taken away from 'em ?   :shock:
the difference between you an me Gnjus? You wait behind a corner for easy pray , I am in the open looking for it, hunting them. Your tactics is based on a weapon who can kill everything because it just can, Chrushthrough Hammer Boy. My tactic was using several weapons to kill different types of enemies.
Title: Re: Infantry and Cav Protection
Post by: kinngrimm on May 02, 2011, 12:30:49 pm
Teamwork is a nice thing to have,
but there is not always a dedicated pikeman around and didn't say i want a pike which i can hide, but sheat something which can be on my back, it does not has to have a lot of damage but a range between 170 and 200 would be nice and taking one SLOT. Make it a long staff with no damage but the possibility to stop horses.

Cavalry, Ranged weapon classes, 2h, polearms can handle cav pretty good, dedicated 1h/shielder not really.
Title: Re: Infantry and Cav Protection
Post by: Gnjus on May 02, 2011, 12:59:58 pm
Quote from: kinngrimm on May 02, 2011, 12:04:51 pm
the difference between you an me Gnjus? You wait behind a corner for easy pray , I am in the open looking for it, hunting them. Your tactics is based on a weapon who can kill everything because it just can, Chrushthrough Hammer Boy. My tactic was using several weapons to kill different types of enemies.

 :lol:

I'm having a great laugh here, Kinngrimm and i thank you for it.   :lol:

I am not gonna go into heavy arguments with someone who never saw me playing before the big patch, and obviously even after it lol, since i swaped so many builds already, i'll just say this: i played 1h/shield/xbow, 1h/shield only, 2h/xbow, 2h only, 1h/cav/polearm, 1h/shield/thrower.....i used xbows (sniper, heavy, normal), 1handers (swords, picks, axes), 2handers (all except swords, out of principle against lolstabing), throwing axes (and what i grabbed on the field and it stayed for the next round), pikes, spears, lances, basically i played everything except an archer and a lolstaber. I hate talking about K:D but it was always pretty much the same, positive. Can you say anywhere near the same for yourself, no matter the time spent playing (and youve certainly amassed quite enough of it by now) ?  :wink:

Also: i dont recall any other clan doing as much heroic charges as the my old friends did in the last couple of months....sometimes we camp, sometimes we go berserk, depending on our numbers, the map, the amount of ranged/cavalry, and all that.....problem is: people mostly "notice" camping (cause it has a higher percentage of happy ends) and they never acknowledge the charges, and we've done so many of em that I'm getting quite tired of all that running around....not all of us have 27 agility and 9 athletics like yourself.  :wink:

Have a nice day, mister Kinngrimm.  :wink:
Title: Re: Infantry and Cav Protection
Post by: MouthnHoof on May 02, 2011, 01:20:21 pm
If you want to carry 2 slot weapons in addition to your 1H, use a smaller shield. A huscarl shield (and the other huge ones) is a role defining equipment. Once you strap it on you are a "shielder", just like a guy with a heavy crossbow is an "xbowman", a dude with a bow is an "archer", and a dude with a long polearm is a "pikeman". All these guys carry a big piece of equipment that defines their role and therefore a limited in the choice of their secondary equipment. A run of the mill fighter with a utility shield will use a smaller shield and there are plenty good ones to choose from.
Title: Re: Infantry and Cav Protection
Post by: kinngrimm on May 02, 2011, 02:14:51 pm
Quote from: Gnjus on May 02, 2011, 12:59:58 pm
(click to show/hide)
i didn't start arguing about playstyle and i noticed and respectedd yours since i first noticed you on the fields, i was often pressing my thumbs for you(german expression for mental support) for you even you were not in my team Gnjus, because i was mindbuggled by yours skills. And still with the new patch as you mentioned K:D i am still often in teh K:D ladder, thats nothing which says anything about team support though. Myself enjoys being against more players and i like having not too much of my own at the time. Those situations speak more of skill as i would like to think of it. AS i was equiped with bamboo spear i was often standing besides archers not of my clan and protecting them as well rushing back to spawn defending some peasents which jsut don't know what to do. I also like to think of me of a team player. That you having a laugh is your right, but remember it is not only me with that problem and i don't only make theses questions for my own sake.

I'll try the next days the shortened spear as Okin suggested, thanks Okin for that advice and several other combination which hopefully result in finding something suitable to my playstayle.

Yes I am an agi whore and i started with that in times where it was already nerfed as far as i was told or read in the forums. I like to have a nice few from mountains, i like to have a different perspective and i can't block very well :) without a shield, it is what it is, nethertheless i train regularly on my manual blocking skills without shield. I don't say that it takes more skill but it suits my playstyle.

I started 9 months ago as 1h/shield/thrower hybrid. Then i made a second character which is most of the time a pure thrower without any other weapon, with that too with javalins/jarrids/axes/lances i managed to get pretty good in the boards, but then you can argue it was OP anyhow. 21/18 with mostly no armor i was doing that, no shoes, gloves or head gear just a Ragged Outfit again playstyle before effeciency.

Title: Re: Infantry and Cav Protection
Post by: NuberT on May 02, 2011, 02:28:47 pm
military fork is 1 slot and has 135 length
Title: Re: Infantry and Cav Protection
Post by: La Makina on May 02, 2011, 02:30:53 pm
Quote from: kinngrimm on May 02, 2011, 02:14:51 pm
Yes I am an agi whore
You are also a low ping whore.  :wink:

I use my trident now which is "sheathable" (and looks shitable), 2 slots. It is certainly short (159) but I could get some cav out with it. I would need some more practice to beat the best cav players though.

Trident makes also look like a peasant (or a small devil) and that is really cool.
Title: Re: Infantry and Cav Protection
Post by: kinngrimm on May 02, 2011, 04:31:31 pm
thanks Nubert and Makina

I perhaps try the military fork as well :)


and Makina i at least dont have the excuse my ping is the problem when i suck  :lol:

EDIT: Quarterstaff 137 length
Title: Re: Infantry and Cav Protection
Post by: Torp on May 02, 2011, 05:57:06 pm
quarter staff.