cRPG

Strategus => Strategus Issues => Topic started by: Sparvico on March 24, 2013, 09:39:33 am

Title: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Sparvico on March 24, 2013, 09:39:33 am
Cyrus_HRE

He banned everyone on our team, which he was opposed to, after we used a legal tactic to beat their army. We had no gear, nor did the enemy, so we decided to run about the map since we were the defending and letting the time run out, putting up our flags, and fighting where necessary. He kicked our entire team so they would not lose the battle.

His final claim was that we were delaying, but people were banned even as they were fighting and taking damage.

Screenshoots:

http://imgur.com/a/hN64A (http://imgur.com/a/hN64A)
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: sdfjkln on March 24, 2013, 09:44:59 am
In the first screenshot, you can see the admin tell us to "stop delaying and try to get your flags back", at which point we did as he said and regained control of our flags. He then proceeded to ban/kick our entire team anyways.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: BD_Baby_Wolf on March 24, 2013, 09:50:05 am
nope... none from your team was fighting, you were all just running away.  you had about 10 warnings and you didn't stop delaying even after that the first guy got banned.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Duster on March 24, 2013, 09:51:44 am
Cyrus_HRE banned literally everybody on the opposite team in a strat battle, on the grounds that they were "delaying" in an even merc naked on naked punch battle. He issued a warning saying not to delay, which we were not doing, a few of our fighters actually went out of their way to attack their flags to prove that we were not delaying, and then Cyrus_HRE proceeded to ban every singe player on the team regardless of whether they were fighting or not. This is a major abuse of admin powers and should be addressed immediately.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Relit on March 24, 2013, 09:54:58 am
Common sense rule guys. You were delaying and griefing the battle, you were even getting angry at people on your TS who were attempting to fight back. You told them to stop fighting and scatter. Pretty clear case here, you guys are just sore that you actually got caught and banned for it.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Heroin on March 24, 2013, 10:07:12 am
nope... none from your team was fighting, you were all just running away.  you had about 10 warnings and you didn't stop delaying even after that the first guy got banned.

I got banned WHILE I was fighting. Also, he only warned us once. This is a straight up lie, and the admins will be able to see it if they look at the chat logs.

Common sense rule guys. You were delaying and griefing the battle, you were even getting angry at people on your TS who were attempting to fight back. You told them to stop fighting and scatter. Pretty clear case here, you guys are just sore that you actually got caught and banned for it.

Staying alive long enough to run the attackers out of time so that you can engage them and win the battle is not delaying or griefing. The attackers get a certain amount of time to kill the defenders before they stop spawning. If that doesn't happen, then the defenders kill all fielded attackers, the defenders win. That is what we were attempting to do by blocking/capping flags and staying alive.

We were doing all of that, continuing to fight, contesting flags, and run you out of time. Banning EVERY SINGLE PERSON on the team, whether they were fighting or not, people who were trying to raise/lower flags, is simply a way to cheat to win a battle you possibly could have lose.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Steelbird on March 24, 2013, 10:12:23 am
They literally banned me and I wasn't even spawned in we where going to do a last push with what troops we had left near the end of the timer and I was banned for it, which made no sense to me. Before that I was watching one of our guys fight a group of the attackers and he got banned for delaying, I guess people on the attacking team plays pretty dumb if they expect a player to charge into a group of people on his own instead of backpedaling and only going in for at the right time to attack. When they did give the warning we did have people start going for flags and ganging up on player we managed to isolate. Sure there was that one or two guys that kept running around but they would eventually would get caught/jumped into a fight.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: sdfjkln on March 24, 2013, 10:12:31 am
you were even getting angry at people on your TS who were attempting to fight back. You told them to stop fighting and scatter.

We were trying to conserve our tickets. In strat battles sometimes you have to disengage your enemy to reform, get in a better position, etc. If you seige a castle without ladders or a catapult the defenders its not up to the defenders to bend over and let you in. Maybe you should have brought some cav, or ranged. We're not responsible because your team is not equipped to meet the conditions of victory no matter the reason be it a bug, lack of reinforcement, lack of foresight.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Varadin on March 24, 2013, 10:29:55 am
Cry babys , Thats all you can do.

Also he did warned you couple of times , also random players such as me warned you too. You just insulted us saying " fuck off" and things like that , also you did not put up your flags you just run around whole map holding block and not swinging with ur fists at all, so Cyras has banned all of you with ALL RIHGTS.

Now gtfo low IQ Americans.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Muki on March 24, 2013, 10:35:36 am
So its the defender fault for not bringing gear? Shouldn't it be the attackers?

I was not at said battle but, this really sounds like awkward situation. Got any screenshots of the battlefield so other players can get a better understanding on what going on.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Espwn on March 24, 2013, 10:37:37 am
Cry babys , Thats all you can do.

Also he did warned you couple of times , also random players such as me warned you too. You just insulted us saying " fuck off" and things like that , also you did not put up your flags you just run around whole map holding block and not swinging with ur fists at all, so Cyras has banned all of you with ALL RIHGTS.

Now gtfo low IQ Americans.

I like this guy. Tell it like it is!  :D
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Heroin on March 24, 2013, 10:38:14 am
Now gtfo low IQ Americans.

Is racial/cultural slander allowed on the forums now?
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Crob28 on March 24, 2013, 10:45:10 am
Honestly I'm not sure this was handled correctly, there is a difference between delaying when the fight is lost, and merely just waiting for the chance to strike, it sounds to me like defenders were honestly trying to win this battle in the only way that they could, by waiting the time out and then killing the attacker.

Obviously in 99% of cases this wouldn't work because of cav, archers, etc, hunting them down, but in this case it sounds like a legit, if not overly exciting, strategy.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Canuck on March 24, 2013, 10:52:52 am
The server was bugged out, so nobody was able to spawn with anything. That's why it was such a mess. As the battle went on the defenders were running low on tickets, and we were losing to the superior tactics and might of the EU fisters, so we decided it would be best to run down the timer/go for their flags/run back and put up our flags all at once. That way when it came down to it, we could have a fighting chance if we grouped up and took on the people that were already spawned in as their ticket advantage would no longer mean anything. The admin eventually warned us that we were delaying, so most of us went to clear our flags. There were attackers and defenders all over the map in a glorious naked fisting frenzy, so I don't know why it turned into such a shit show at the end. A teammate and I were actually fighting someone when he was banned, mid-fight, and I was banned shortly thereafter. There were other people in the TS talking about being in the middle of fights when they were banned as well.

It would be understandable if we were actually delaying/griefing, but we were really just doing our best to win with what we had.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Kalp on March 24, 2013, 10:55:48 am
I'm not surprised. It is common practice for some ....
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: MURDERTRON on March 24, 2013, 10:56:44 am
Is racial/cultural slander allowed on the forums now?

It's not slander, the US has a laughably low average IQ compared to other first world countries.
http://www.statisticbrain.com/countries-with-the-highest-lowest-average-iq/
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Heroin on March 24, 2013, 11:05:08 am
It's not slander, the US has a laughably low average IQ compared to other first world countries.
http://www.statisticbrain.com/countries-with-the-highest-lowest-average-iq/

Actually, you just proved that it is. The link you provided is the top 20 list of the HIGHEST IQs in the world, of which the united states is #19.

And since he was specifically going on record talking to those of us who posted in this thread, I'll retort that mine is approximately 140.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: lcrispyl on March 24, 2013, 11:26:29 am
I believe the admin that banned everyone on the opposite team should be stripped of all privilege's, he clearly favored his own team... with 2 minutes left in the fight. Everyone was naked... so therefore it was a scrappy fight back-peddling against 3 oncoming players is not delaying, just providing a prime time to attack. Relit you are very incorrect in your post... 2 mins left and people were still fighting doesn't clearify a ban.... sorry buddy. You are very misinformed and should read the strat fight page and terms of battle. Obviously you were the opponent in this particular fight so you side with what the admin purposed.... In fact you are very wrong in doing so or even promoting the belief that what was done was okay. People on defense were doing defensive maneuvers, sadly you could not contain the matter at hand. This strategy has been played several times in previous strat maps in NA... and now you speak on it... I call that complaining... When in fact what was done was seriously inappropriate. Look at what witchcraft did in the siege fight... camping on a tower that no one could get to then the timer ran down and all defenders spawned from the grave yet no one complained about that... Just seems like when the battle/siege doesn't favor certain clans they wine and moan and ban players when their is a timer still running... This is why I personally hate how strat has become, it seems to favor certain clans and deminish others and continue to do that... the OCC Siege for instance... they spawn with no gear at Shariz VE takes it with Eaze (like what i did there). Yet nothing is done about it... this whole strat seems to favor literally one side of the map and starve the rest it... FAIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! COMPLAIN MORE!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: MURDERTRON on March 24, 2013, 11:28:22 am
Actually, you just proved that it is. The link you provided is the top 20 list of the HIGHEST IQs in the world, of which the united states is #19.

And since he was specifically going on record talking to those of us who posted in this thread, I'll retort that mine is approximately 140.

Cool story man, did your high Internet IQ stop me from taking all of your shit?  I believe Waradin is from one of the European countries that beats out the US, so he is actually well within his rights to say that.  Like I said, we are quite low for a first world country and SUPER POWER, and of course with our economy the way it is, it is no surprise.  Most Americans can't do simple math and as a result average $19,000 of credit card debt.

Anyway, back on topic, you should link the battle so we know which one you're referencing.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: MURDERTRON on March 24, 2013, 11:32:22 am
I believe the admin that banned everyone on the opposite team should be stripped of all privilege's, he clearly favored his own team... with 2 minutes left in the fight. Everyone was naked... so therefore it was a scrappy fight back-peddling against 3 oncoming players is not delaying, just providing a prime time to attack. Relit you are very incorrect in your post... 2 mins left and people were still fighting doesn't clearify a ban.... sorry buddy. You are very misinformed and should read the strat fight page and terms of battle. Obviously you were the opponent in this particular fight so you side with what the admin purposed.... In fact you are very wrong in doing so or even promoting the belief that what was done was okay. People on defense were doing defensive maneuvers, sadly you could not contain the matter at hand. This strategy has been played several times in previous strat maps in NA... and now you speak on it... I call that complaining... When in fact what was done was seriously inappropriate. Look at what witchcraft did in the siege fight... camping on a tower that no one could get to then the timer ran down and all defenders spawned from the grave yet no one complained about that... Just seems like when the battle/siege doesn't favor certain clans they wine and moan and ban players when their is a timer still running... This is why I personally hate how strat has become, it seems to favor certain clans and deminish others and continue to do that... the OCC Siege for instance... they spawn with no gear at Shariz VE takes it with Eaze (like what i did there). Yet nothing is done about it... this whole strat seems to favor literally one side of the map and starve the rest it... FAIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! COMPLAIN MORE!!!!!!!!

I don't understand how you can say that Strategus favors one side of the map.  Almost every large clan has been the victim of some type of bug, some more than others.  However, it generally affects the attackers worse than the defenders.  The Shariz attack is the first time I've seen the defenders have it worse than the attackers.  Plus, it's not like we've never seen VE get their asses whooped by naked defenders before.  Just saying.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Malaclypse on March 24, 2013, 11:44:56 am
How did an attacker go 1 and 5 against an enemy who was actively trying to avoid fighting? Doesn't add up. A number of these dudes have already stated that they were kicked while they were engaged in a fight, seems like a pretty clear case of an admin making an extremely poor call in indiscriminately kicking every single person on the other team.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Macropus on March 24, 2013, 11:49:05 am
This is extremely weird.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Dalhi on March 24, 2013, 11:53:32 am
Let's first ban HRE members.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: lcrispyl on March 24, 2013, 12:10:59 pm
LOL MURDER... THAT IS A BOLD STATEMENT....
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Wallace_Ritchie on March 24, 2013, 12:47:09 pm
Common sense rule guys. You were delaying and griefing the battle, you were even getting angry at people on your TS who were attempting to fight back. You told them to stop fighting and scatter. Pretty clear case here, you guys are just sore that you actually got caught and banned for it.
How do you know that? Can you provide a witness? A spy perhaps? Otherwise, all hearsay.
I was there. I have no interest in the winner, or otherwise. I always assumed it was on the attackers to kill the defenders. I remember a certain LL battle where it was sooooo cool. http://forum.meleegaming.com/diplomacy/witchcraft-demon-of-the-tundra/ . Admins are not allowed to make new rules, and kick accordingly. They enforce rules. Which were never broken.
We did kick their ass's right before this. Maybe they just got mad about being stomped on NA ping? So EU Admin is the next best thing? Time will tell. I expect nothing to come from this. I'd chalk this up as a loss if I was in their clan. EU is beyond reproach.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: lcrispyl on March 24, 2013, 12:50:27 pm
+1 to that post!!!!!!!!!!! above!
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Mongolista on March 24, 2013, 01:05:08 pm
+1 to that post!!!!!!!!!!! above!

You know you can actually just click the plus button and stfu. Anyway not contributing to the fight and running away from the enemies to the end of the map IS delaying. I can see from the screen shots people have been warned several times and in case their response is FUCK YOU and they are ignoring the warning for a ban incoming, they deserve the ban, on EU2 every time I see somebody doing something bannable I warn them on chat not to do it or risk getting banned, it's up to them which one they pick. On the other hand banning the whole team seems a bit harsh, ban should be issued only on those, who failed to follow the warning, surely not everyone on the team and definitely not the ones who actually followed the instructions and started fighting after the warning.

But from what I have seen in the screen shots, some of the players deserved the ban anyway, such as Rohypnol for griefing (if you dont like the game then Im sure you wouldnt mind not playing it for a while) or Zaren_Astralis for misusing admin chat and griefing there as well or Luk_Astralis for griefing about the admin (My brother has been once kicked out of EU6 for the very same reason, he trash talked one of the players who happened to be an admin as well).
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Crob28 on March 24, 2013, 01:11:43 pm
You know you can actually just click the plus button and stfu. Anyway not contributing to the fight and running away from the enemies to the end of the map IS delaying. I can see from the screen shots people have been warned several times and in case their response is FUCK YOU and they are ignoring the warning for a ban incoming, they deserve the ban, on EU2 every time I see somebody doing something bannable I warn them on chat not to do it or risk getting banned, it's up to them which one they pick. On the other hand banning the whole team seems a bit harsh, ban should be issued only on those, who failed to follow the warning, surely not everyone on the team and definitely not the ones who actually followed the instructions and started fighting after the warning.

But what if they are waiting for the last 2 mins to lapse, at which point the attackers will no longer be able to spawn, and then they can fight and win?  It's not delaying if you have a genuine chance of victory.

Anyways I think the point they are making is that the admin was wrong to give the warning in the first place, personally  wouldn't react well to being told to lose a fight I intended on winning, though granted bad language doesn't help much.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Mongolista on March 24, 2013, 01:32:38 pm
But what if they are waiting for the last 2 mins to lapse, at which point the attackers will no longer be able to spawn, and then they can fight and win?  It's not delaying if you have a genuine chance of victory.

This is a very problematic situation because as far as I understand the battle was all naked people as the server was down and the gear was not loading, thus there was no cavalry available and thus the rules should not count the cav in, but I dont know, 1st rule is use the common sense but that is very problematic in this situation, I would first see if the admin had any personal interest in winning the battle and then if any of the banned persons can prove they actually listened to the warning and joined the fight, as far as I see from the screen shots only the people who failed to follow the warning were banned.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: MURDERTRON on March 24, 2013, 01:43:40 pm
First rule is use common sense is a terrible rule.  Most players in this mod do not have common sense, or we all would have stopped playing long ago.  Admins are included in the previous statement.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Bothersome_Aldryk on March 24, 2013, 02:25:25 pm
I suppose I should avoid making any comments about Germans and War Crimes. Instead, I'll just say that if you're going to ban everyone on the enemy team in a strat battle, call in an admin who isn't involved in the battle to make the call. Makes it less awkward all around.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Varadin on March 24, 2013, 02:38:49 pm
Seems like

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Bothersome_Aldryk on March 24, 2013, 02:46:35 pm
That Owl kinda looks angry, though. If owls have jimmies, I think his just got rustled.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Heroin on March 24, 2013, 03:01:00 pm
I would first see if the admin had any personal interest in winning the battle and then if any of the banned persons can prove they actually listened to the warning and joined the fight, as far as I see from the screen shots only the people who failed to follow the warning were banned.

How can you tell if they failed to follow the warning? We were putting up flags and taking down enemy flags. Furthermore, we were waiting 2 minutes for the attackers timer to be up before we fully engaged with our last 30 tickets. That was us trying to win. Trying to win is not delaying, and an admin in the enemy clan should not ban the entire opposing team in a strat battle.

He banned like 20 people with 2 minutes left on their spawn timer. We couldn't screenshot more BECAUSE HE BANNED US.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on March 24, 2013, 03:20:24 pm
If this is true he should have his admin rights removed and get a very lengthy ban imo, this shit is fucked up.
Also, how the hell can they be delaying when there's no way in hell that everyone from the other team are slower than everybody on their team?
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: the real god emperor on March 24, 2013, 03:21:39 pm
I think you can do everything you want on strat except cheating,bug using etc. So i think Cyrus had no right to ban those people.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Wallace_Ritchie on March 24, 2013, 03:23:05 pm
As you can see I was the first kicked(maybe). Save the hasty threat posted in blood pink 5 seconds before the genocide, no warning was given before me being kicked. I had many fist kills. The skill of the punchers on the other team was too great. They punched like devils. Punching, and punching. All that was left to us was to cheat. I begged our comrades not to anger the EU neckbeards that run everything. They chose to take the path of honour, and try to win. Fools, I called them. FOOLS. What could they hope to do against such a god, that killed at will from a UI such as his? This post will be locked, and those that post shall take warnings, or worse. Bless those that gave their life on the battlefield, and ever thought they could win. When will NA learn this is an EU game, and no amount of logic, fairness, or sense shall ever gain them victory over those who are obviously not the my old friends in this situation. R.I.P.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Bjarky on March 24, 2013, 04:37:15 pm
I had many fist kills. The skill of the punchers on the other team was too great. They punched like devils. Punching, and punching. All that was left to us was to cheat. I begged our comrades not to anger the EU neckbeards that run everything.
You are quite right there sir. The naked bug fist fight battle was quite fun when we all engaged eachother.

But when one team tries to gain benefits through a bug (by delaying and avoiding fights in order to gain more tickets in the end), you do break one of the very first rules under:
General Rules: http://forum.meleegaming.com/announcements/official-server-rules/
And the admin dealt with it accordingly, nullifying the benefit by banning ppl for a short time so noone could rejoin (warnings and kicking didn't seem to help).

At least none of the teams lost their gear after the battle (and i only looted our goods Heroin tried to run off with), was a weird bug, we where both shiny armed and it could have been a nice little scrim.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Crob28 on March 24, 2013, 04:56:10 pm
You are quite right there sir. The naked bug fist fight battle was quite fun when we all engaged eachother.

But when one team tries to gain benefits through a bug (by delaying and avoiding fights in order to gain more tickets in the end), you do break one of the very first rules under:
General Rules: http://forum.meleegaming.com/announcements/official-server-rules/
  • No exploiting of any kind:
    • NOT OK: Using a bug to gain undeserved benefits.
And the admin dealt with it accordingly, nullifying the benefit by banning ppl for a short time so noone could rejoin (warnings and kicking didn't seem to help).

At least none of the teams lost their gear after the battle (and i only looted our goods Heroin tried to run off with), was a weird bug, we where both shiny armed and it could have been a nice little scrim.

I'm sorry but I don't see how trying to survive for the final few minutes so the attackers are forced to retreat, then killing the last ones on the field and winning, can be seen as exploiting.  The fact that attackers retreat when the time runs out is intended isn't it?
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Bjarky on March 24, 2013, 05:02:26 pm
The fact that attackers retreat when the time runs out is intended isn't it?
Yes with normal gear it is, but do to the fact of the naked bug it is near impossible to hunt ppl down or keep the flags down.
The admin told ppl to fight and engage, wich was not taken seriously by the defenders.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Crob28 on March 24, 2013, 05:08:30 pm
Yes with normal gear it is, but do to the fact of the naked bug it is near impossible to hunt ppl down or keep the flags down.
The admin told ppl to fight and engage, wich was not taken seriously by the defenders.

Yea it is a difficult situation, tho it was not the defenders doing and they shouldn't be penalised by it by being forced into wasting tickets.  Imo the admin made a bad call, but ideally the battle shouldn't even have taken place given the circumstances.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Blackzilla on March 24, 2013, 05:25:21 pm
Last Strat I was in a EU Templar battle where we were defending with no gear and were completely naked. We fought 5 guys with full plate and our orders where to run away from them and kite and to not fight, we were told to wait for the timer to go down so they were forced to retreat. Then we fought and killed them, the other guy got kick polled illegally (not submitted by us, but by a spectator). The admins on the server did nothing and let it play out. I don't see how this is any different. People are even dying on the server from combat. Attackers have to attack, defenders have to hold out for as long as they can and a goal is to hold out for the timer.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Zanze on March 24, 2013, 05:37:44 pm
Clearly he has never heard of guerrilla tactics.

Imo, if flags were being put up / taken down, I think that should count as fighting. To put a flag down, can't have anyone on its team near it last I checked. I'm sure people were trying to prevent it, and from all posts of "I was banned while fighting," its almost certain that is what happened. Seems like a very hasty call from the admin.

As Crob28 said, the battle should be repeated if there was an issue with the website. There should also be more than 1 admin in the next battle, to prevent this sort of situation. (Preferably a selection of 2 non-affiliated admins)
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Zaren on March 24, 2013, 05:43:39 pm

Now gtfo low IQ Americans.
(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)



and so this was on topic..........wtf were we supposed to do? YOU guys were naked and WE were naked. I gaurentee you that if cyrus or whatever his name was, was on OUR side we would not be banned right now and the wall of text chat would have been saying that we were fighting ligit.......Its not delaying, and its not illegal. PLUS we were running around the flags when you banned everyone spawned.....


Cool story man, did your high Internet IQ stop me from taking all of your shit?  I believe Waradin is from one of the European countries that beats out the US, so he is actually well within his rights to say that.  Like I said, we are quite low for a first world country and SUPER POWER, and of course with our economy the way it is, it is no surprise.  Most Americans can't do simple math and as a result average $19,000 of credit card debt.

Anyway, back on topic, you should link the battle so we know which one you're referencing.
and as for this statement, Europe is more in the shitter than we are. Plus if you havent realised all the markets are exactly where they were OR slightly higher than before the recession meaning we are almost out of the shitter....the GOVERNMENT having no money is not reflective on the economy.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Gmnotutoo on March 24, 2013, 05:47:54 pm
I don't think the admin in question should be punished, but I don't think semen-storm should have been banned for it. Each side was trying to handle their situation as best as they could with this terrible bug. You guys seemed to be delaying which is usually against the rules, but given the circumstances I probably would have agreed that was the best tactic to use. The admin saw you guys delaying and under any normal situation that is against the rules. Really the only thing that should happen is a roll back, seeing as how a lot of battles are incredibly bugged out now.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Keshian on March 24, 2013, 05:49:23 pm
The skill of the punchers on the other team was too great. They punched like devils. evil red-headed japanese desu desu schoolgirls

Correction above - http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=battlesparticipated#!?page=battledetail&id=2980 (http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=battlesparticipated#!?page=battledetail&id=2980)

Also, bugged battle with both sides having no gear.  We had a legitimate fun fight for the first 2/3rds of the battle.  Then with about 20 minutes left the entire team stopped fighting and would just hold up blocks only, which was fine, we gang-banged them accordingly and hit them from behind.  But with about 13 minutes left in the game they all started scattering and running every which way and made no attempt to get flgs back up or take flags down (we later heard from some of the enemy players that leaders of the faction on the other side actually yelled at them for fighting and getting kills instead of running).

At that point a number of us warned them to stop griefing/delaying.  Fnally red text was used and they still did not change their attempt to use the bugged battle to their advantage, since as long as you run away from other naked people you can get away with taking absolutely no damage.  The enemy stayed with 4 tickets remaining for 10 minutes this way with repeated warnings and finally with 2-3 minutes left in the battle they were banned temporarily for 1 hour one by one as only 2 people started fighting again after the bans started happening - but the admins couldn't see which 2 those were as he was banning the many people on the other side who continued to grief/delay.

I think its a legitimate tactic to run away and wait or flags to go up with a few minutes left, but this was definitely a common sense based banning.  Both sides were bugged (similar to when tkov's army got bugged attacking a castle and had no gear - admin ordered them to retreat since they couldn't attack with no ladders and so they did losing entire army), and the only way for it to legitimately play out was to fight it out with fists.  Running away with 13 minutes left and getting almost 0 deaths for 10 minutes was a pretty clear common sense abuse of a bugged battle situation.  If both sides had gear no big deal, you are probably going to lose anyway though, but just use common sense people - no way to do damage because of the bug as long as you are running away.  if the sides were reversed you would have been calling for our side to be kicked or would have vote-kicked us off for delaying/griefing.

Rollback not a bad idea, also it was  a 1 hour temp ban on eu servers - not much more than just being kicked and making sure you don't immediately rejoin.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Blackzilla on March 24, 2013, 06:05:15 pm
i like how the guys with the best score on the SS side got kicked/banned first. Look at next screen to see Holiday banned next and he was number 1.

(click to show/hide)

Hell the best player on the team was banned after getting killed!

(click to show/hide)
Also lol at the admin for ignoring the guy with like 5 tks right there.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Gmnotutoo on March 24, 2013, 06:13:31 pm
-edited this part, apparently I double posted. Sorry-

Also, I find it utterly hilarious to see a few posters in here claiming injustice. A couple of you openly supported the admin abuse done to the FCC and when the FCC brought it up, these same people called them all whiners.

Special shout-out to Blackzilla. ;)
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: ROHYPNOL on March 24, 2013, 07:01:32 pm
Oh no you guys are using tactics in a strat game...PANIC BAN
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Damatacus_ATS on March 24, 2013, 07:28:32 pm
Really? WTF, the battle was all bugged to begin with and it was about 3 minutes from being over anyways. We were gonna lose, we had 0 tickets left and several guys not able to spawn before the banning started. Ya it was some BS but I don't really care and I doubt any of the EU admins care either. Notice they have not replied.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Turboflex on March 24, 2013, 07:39:52 pm
Seems what you guys did breaks "common sense" rule, trying to scatter and play for end of clock with 15-20 minutes is fairly ridiculous.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Butan on March 24, 2013, 07:43:58 pm
So many comments for a 300 vs 100 battle, someone had 10k crates of gear or ?  :mrgreen:


Seems like both sides have good arguments, the admin applied HIS common sense to the situation, the only thing that can be complained about is that he was fighting against those he kick/banned. Rest is a question of point of view and rhetoric.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: naduril on March 24, 2013, 08:28:00 pm
So many comments for a 300 vs 100 battle, someone had 10k crates of gear or ?  :mrgreen:


Seems like both sides have good arguments, the admin applied HIS common sense to the situation, the only thing that can be complained about is that he was fighting against those he kick/banned. Rest is a question of point of view and rhetoric.
Doesn't matter what size of the armies was. The main deal here is pretty clear Admin Abuse. Especially with the screens provided, where we can see that the fighting people were banned.
Admin should be exonerated from his Admin duties.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: sdfjkln on March 24, 2013, 08:34:53 pm
This is a very problematic situation because as far as I understand the battle was all naked people as the server was down and the gear was not loading, thus there was no cavalry available and thus the rules should not count the cav in, but I dont know, 1st rule is use the common sense but that is very problematic in this situation, I would first see if the admin had any personal interest in winning the battle and then if any of the banned persons can prove they actually listened to the warning and joined the fight, as far as I see from the screen shots only the people who failed to follow the warning were banned.

If the enemy team was organized enough they could have swarmed us and taken us out one by one, instead they were willing to be baited in circles because they're bad eu. So the real issue here is that the enemy team was so bad that they couldnt kill us in time to win, so they decided they would abuse admin to win instead.  Everyone on our team was capable of being killed, we didnt have cav that could keep us out of range indefinitely, we weren't camping an unreachable location, we were running our clock which is the point of every battle for defenders. Are we gonna start banning shieldwalls for delaying cause the enemy team can't get enough kills in time to win?
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Sparvico on March 24, 2013, 08:40:56 pm
The other issue is that admins (as far as I have ever understood the term in any legitimate community or business) are supposed to remain impartial, Cyrus is a member of the strat faction that was attacking us, and his usage of admin powers, which was at the very least highly questionable, assured his factions victory. That is a clear conflict of interests. 

Additionally we were warned that we had to attempt to put our flags back up (which I understand is not actually a rule) and at that time we did successfully raise at least a few of our flags. We obeyed every reasonable order the admin gave us, even though they were not legal orders, and yet we were still banned. 

What baffles me most however is why Cyrus really felt it necessary to subvert our tactics in the first place. Our plan was to let the time run down, and then beat them to death with our fists. Frankly i'm not even sure it would have worked (They had much better ping than us, and that kesh fucker hits like a brick). Even if the time had run out (there flags had gone down, and we spawned back in) they probably still would've beat us to death with there fists.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Arthur_ on March 24, 2013, 08:50:13 pm
I hope I don't get banned for doing some tks there, it was lame tought I wouldn't say those guys weren't fighting, but they were just delaying with holding blocks all the time at flags and arround there and trying to get flags up... at least thats what I saw (was in Guards team)
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Sparvico on March 24, 2013, 08:58:49 pm
We we're indeed holding blocks up, and running about as if we were decapitated poultry. In a battle server that ought to be considered delaying, however the entire point of defending in strat is to let the time run out.

Humans have been warring for a long time, and throughout all the circumstances of warfare it has been a rather universal truth that it is the attackers responsibility to come well enough prepared to defeat the defenders in battle. If that is not the case then all the defenders have to do is wait, avoid making any stupid mistakes that result in their death, counterattack when the moment is right. In a strat battle that moment comes when the time runs out.

In addition:
I hope I don't get banned for doing some tks there, it was lame tought I wouldn't say those guys weren't fighting, but they were just delaying with holding blocks all the time at flags and arround there and trying to get flags up... at least thats what I saw (was in Guards team)

This man (who I really don't think deserves any punishment given that it was all in all a rather ridiculous battle) intentionally tk'd, as I recall, three teammates, including the admin, well before the round was over. How is it that he, who clearly violated a long standing rule, was not in any way penalized, yet we, who at best violated a rather unorthodox arbitrary decision, were banned?

I reiterate that I don't care about the outcome of this particular battle, but I feel that allowing someone who blatantly disregards existing rules, makes up new ones on the spot, and acts on them despite a very clear conflict of interests is not admin material.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Shemaforash on March 24, 2013, 09:14:41 pm
Shouldn't be any discussion about it, it's abuse.

Cool story man, did your high Internet IQ stop me from taking all of your shit?  I believe Waradin is from one of the European countries that beats out the US, so he is actually well within his rights to say that.  Like I said, we are quite low for a first world country and SUPER POWER, and of course with our economy the way it is, it is no surprise.  Most Americans can't do simple math and as a result average $19,000 of credit card debt.

Anyway, back on topic, you should link the battle so we know which one you're referencing.

Thought I should tell you Serbia isn't on that list.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Duster on March 24, 2013, 09:19:24 pm
     About the foul language thing, I was pretty hammered. But I think my point was pretty justified, and that was that this admin did not have the reich right to tell us how to run our battle. The rule cited by the admin in question was no delaying at the end of a round.

     The bans began at about 2 minutes left, which at least in America means that the round was not over, and players were still fighting/tactfully picking fights (which they were asked to to by myself, Heroin and ROHYPNOL). The BS "common sense" rule was also cited, which is basically a cover up so that Cyrus_HRE could have his way with our team and tell us how to play to go ahead and lose our strat battle.

     Cyrus_HRE's side had alot invested in this battle, as Heroin was making his way out with a decent amount of S&D, so any admin actions would normally be scrutinized closely, for obvious reasons. BANNING THE ENTIRE OTHER TEAM BASED ON WHAT AMOUNTS TO THE ADMIN BEING MAD AT TACTICS IS ABUSE.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: ROHYPNOL on March 24, 2013, 09:29:16 pm
Seems what you guys did breaks "common sense" rule, trying to scatter and play for end of clock with 15-20 minutes is fairly ridiculous.

Who was aware of a common sense rule? Common sense would tell me to do exactly what we did with the game mechanics, play it how it is made... Just like golf, "hit it where it lies" please do not get mad at us for trying to win.

Seems as if the enemy noted that we actually had a chance to win with our strategy, then started laying down the ban hammer on the entire opposing team. No?
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Berserkadin on March 24, 2013, 09:45:55 pm
How can it be delaying for defenders to avoid defeat? It's not freaking EU_1, it's a strat battle where the attackers have to kill the defenders and if you can't then to fucking bad. Clear abuse by someone who obviously can't handle the responsibility to be an admin. I don't want power-tripping ragers who abuse their powers in strat as admins.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Lt_Anders on March 24, 2013, 09:49:47 pm
1) Was not there

2) In battle servers,(which those same rules apply to Strat) You can run as MUCH as you want as long as there is 1 other person fighting. As you are not delaying(since you have a teammate who is engaging and killing the guys that aren't chasing you). It is a valid, legal Battle tactic. This same tactic is allowed on strat. Even if the entire team RUNS like chickens, if 2 guys fight, then it's not delaying, regardless of anything else.

3) Common Sense: Would tell me that banning(for 1 hour too) the entire enemy team is not common sense. Period. Don't try and Hide behind this clause and rule on the delaying justification. I've clearly shown that those tactics are not against the rules. Also, if someone insists on just blocking, that's not breaking any rules. Ever heard of shields? They do the same damn thing. If someone has 13 shield skill, and 10 people whack on his shield, he doesn't have to unblock as he's fighting. Regardless of how lame it can be, it's perfectly acceptable.

Revoke the damn admins rights.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: no_rules_just_play on March 24, 2013, 09:57:43 pm
what are you guys trying to do here? are you trying to scare away the people that dont agree with you buy mass -1'ing them? please give me a -1. Your arguments are total bullshit.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: naduril on March 24, 2013, 10:09:30 pm
what are you guys trying to do here? are you trying to scare away the people that dont agree with you buy mass -1'ing them? please give me a -1. Your arguments are total bullshit.
And you don't have any arguments at all. So, get my -1.
Admin should be freed from his Admin duties. Once Nebun did it himself just not to be hypocrite in Admin rules. Can't say that about your admin, No_rules.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: the real god emperor on March 24, 2013, 10:16:19 pm
Why doesnt Cyrus write a defending essay anyway?
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on March 24, 2013, 10:22:25 pm
what are you guys trying to do here? are you trying to scare away the people that dont agree with you buy mass -1'ing them? please give me a -1. Your arguments are total bullshit.
Yeah, you guys are -1ing me without responding, your arguments are bullshit and you're trying to scare me away, stop it hre.
http://forum.meleegaming.com/strategus-issues/possible-serious-admin-abuse/msg749371/#msg749371

BTW: Kesh, remember to -1 me with your girlfriends account too.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: MURDERTRON on March 24, 2013, 10:22:59 pm
Why doesnt Cyrus write a defending essay anyway?

Because admins don't have to answer to anyone.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Holiday203 on March 24, 2013, 10:36:53 pm
Rable, Rable, Rable! LOUD NOISES! I WAS THERE!
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Nightingale on March 24, 2013, 10:49:47 pm
Both sides were naked? and both were without weapons... only logical choice is obviously perma bans for everyone.

Cyrus's actions should be reviewed by an higher admin not by people that hate him for whatever reason, and the battle should be replayed. Since it was a bug in the first place that caused everyone to be naked.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Wolfsblood on March 24, 2013, 10:53:50 pm
ban strat
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Blackzilla on March 24, 2013, 11:13:39 pm
I hope I don't get banned for doing some tks there, it was lame tought I wouldn't say those guys weren't fighting, but they were just delaying with holding blocks all the time at flags and arround there and trying to get flags up... at least thats what I saw (was in Guards team)
You just admitted that they were participating in the fight by getting their flags up or atleast trying too. Point being, you admitted they were fighting and participating.

what are you guys trying to do here? are you trying to scare away the people that dont agree with you buy mass -1'ing them? please give me a -1. Your arguments are total bullshit.
Where ever I post, Kesh's -1's follow. You'll get used to it.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: no_rules_just_play on March 24, 2013, 11:41:45 pm
Yeah, you guys are -1ing me without responding, your arguments are bullshit and you're trying to scare me away, stop it hre.
http://forum.meleegaming.com/strategus-issues/possible-serious-admin-abuse/msg749371/#msg749371

BTW: Kesh, remember to -1 me with your girlfriends account too.
we do, look at the numerous posts with -9 and lower
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Shemaforash on March 24, 2013, 11:43:32 pm
kesh's constant -1

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Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Duster on March 24, 2013, 11:50:15 pm
we do, look at the numerous posts with -9 and lower

Ever stop and think that maybe their posts are -9 and lower because they're absolute garbage? I almost never -1 posts unless they are absolutely stupid, but defending this admin abuse is right up there. How about you make an actual post other than "omg stop -1ing my clanmates".
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Blackzilla on March 24, 2013, 11:56:52 pm
we do, look at the numerous posts with -9 and lower

Aye I see those post by Bjarky. My opinion might be seen as biased but I believe he is wrong in both post.

You are quite right there sir. The naked bug fist fight battle was quite fun when we all engaged eachother.

But when one team tries to gain benefits through a bug (by delaying and avoiding fights in order to gain more tickets in the end), you do break one of the very first rules under:
General Rules: http://forum.meleegaming.com/announcements/official-server-rules/
  • No exploiting of any kind:
    • NOT OK: Using a bug to gain undeserved benefits.
And the admin dealt with it accordingly, nullifying the benefit by banning ppl for a short time so noone could rejoin (warnings and kicking didn't seem to help).

At least none of the teams lost their gear after the battle (and i only looted our goods Heroin tried to run off with), was a weird bug, we where both shiny armed and it could have been a nice little scrim.

I don't see them abusing a bug. I don't see how they could've possibly used the "not getting any of your strat gear bug" to an advantage. Delaying and avoiding fights is not a bug. The screens show people fighting and dying so I don't see the delaying. In your other post you say how you cant keep their flags down, so they are clearing participating and defending flags, I don't see them avoiding a scuffle. They were defenders trying to hold out as long as possible until you were forced to retreat.


I'm sorry but I don't see how trying to survive for the final few minutes so the attackers are forced to retreat, then killing the last ones on the field and winning, can be seen as exploiting.  The fact that attackers retreat when the time runs out is intended isn't it?

Yes with normal gear it is, but do to the fact of the naked bug it is near impossible to hunt ppl down or keep the flags down.
The admin told ppl to fight and engage, wich was not taken seriously by the defenders.

I didn't know that the rules automatically change into someone else favor when the database messes up and NO ONE gets gear.

Are you happy now no rules? Your name is very contradicting to the way you participate in this community. (I've seen your ban threads, there are a lot of them iirc)

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Mongolista on March 25, 2013, 01:15:00 am
I dont really get this, first of all I dont understand some of those turning this topic into EU stupid players on the bad side and NA clever players (aha! they have no cav coz of the bug, lets abuse it a lil) on the good side. I understand some people see abusing game mechanics that by common sense should not work like that as a clever move, but thats a question of an individual, not a question of EU/NA.

Just a quick note: Bjarky had an interesting quote, stating that using a bug to your advantage is a bannable offence. There is nothing bad about using the "make it longer so the attackers army runs away" tactic in a normal scenario, but this was not a normal scenario as it was a bugged fight. If it was not a bugged battle and the attackers had cavalry, you would not use this tactic, thus using it with the knowledge of the fact the enemy cant use horses due to the bug is actually using the bug to your advantage. On the other hand banning the whole team for the sake of few retarded leaders seems like problems with anger management.

Second of all it is funny to see how the guys defending the admin get negative votes and the opposite ones having the positive votes, I cant help it but have the feeling all it means is there is a lot of kids on the "positive" side thinking their minus to those horrible persons and their plus to their buddies actually means something (yes Kesh you are there as well!!!). I feel like the only reason for the voting system would be to appreciate smbdy's ideas without having to write "+1 to that mate!!".

Third of all, I would understand if the person in question would be a normal player, but since it is an admin, none of the discussion here will be read anyway, the admin will most likely have a talk with one of the higher admins which will just use the screen shots. Any discussion is completely useless as the admin will be questioned elsewhere, youre just wasting your time you can use for downvoting and upvoting like the good lad you are!
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Lt_Anders on March 25, 2013, 01:37:23 am
1) Was not there

2) In battle servers,(which those same rules apply to Strat) You can run as MUCH as you want as long as there is 1 other person fighting. As you are not delaying(since you have a teammate who is engaging and killing the guys that aren't chasing you). It is a valid, legal Battle tactic. This same tactic is allowed on strat. Even if the entire team RUNS like chickens, if 2 guys fight, then it's not delaying, regardless of anything else.

3) Common Sense: Would tell me that banning(for 1 hour too) the entire enemy team is not common sense. Period. Don't try and Hide behind this clause and rule on the delaying justification. I've clearly shown that those tactics are not against the rules. Also, if someone insists on just blocking, that's not breaking any rules. Ever heard of shields? They do the same damn thing. If someone has 13 shield skill, and 10 people whack on his shield, he doesn't have to unblock as he's fighting. Regardless of how lame it can be, it's perfectly acceptable.

Revoke the damn admins rights.

Please re-read that. It's quite informative.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Heroin on March 25, 2013, 03:30:38 am
Just a quick note: Bjarky had an interesting quote, stating that using a bug to your advantage is a bannable offence. There is nothing bad about using the "make it longer so the attackers army runs away" tactic in a normal scenario, but this was not a normal scenario as it was a bugged fight. If it was not a bugged battle and the attackers had cavalry, you would not use this tactic, thus using it with the knowledge of the fact the enemy cant use horses due to the bug is actually using the bug to your advantage.

No. Having an unusual scenario arise due to a bug that we have no control over doesn't immediately invalidate an otherwise valid tactic. Especially when said tactic is THE defining tactic in strat battles for outnumbered defenders. This was the plan before the battle began. (Further, by the above logic, ANY strategy that attempts to win by adapting to the situation would be considered abusing that bug under the wording you used.)

Any experienced strat player with sense will agree: If you're on defense and outnumbered, your best chance of victory lies in surviving long enough for the attacker's time to run out, then killing those left on the field.

Telling us we're not allowed to try to win with our plan now, because both sides spawned without gear is arbitrary and biased. That's akin to an attacker bringing no horses/archers, and my entire army being mounted. I'd still avoid them till their time ran out, and run them down afterwards.

And before you say that's different, it's not. The defender isn't responsible for what the attacker brings to battle, just like the defender isn't responsible for the smooth running of the servers, and the proper loading of gear. It's also not our fault the attackers didn't have enough athletics to keep us from dropping their flags and raising our own.

None of this justifies banning the entire enemy team with 2 minutes left to ensure your own team's victory.

Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Mongolista on March 25, 2013, 01:26:12 pm
by the above logic, ANY strategy that attempts to win by adapting to the situation would be considered abusing that bug under the wording you used

Yes, any strategy that works with the fact there is something working differently than it should be (misuse) shall get you banned. Havent read the rest, sorry. You dont have to justify yourself here, as I said, the admins will solve all this elsewhere anyway and all of this will  most likely be ignored. I just dont understand your frustration about me being biased, I know neither you nor the admin, I was writing down what seemed logical to me, my sense can be wrong, but so can yours.

And if it turns out the admin did right, you should be glad you only lost 100 tickets, we lost thousands of tickets coz of the server not working at all, battles were skipped and defender automatically won.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: BADPLAYER_old2 on March 25, 2013, 02:06:21 pm
I fought in a battle once on EU where I was the only person on a team, with a Rouncey and no armour/weapons while the enemy had both so all I did was run around and keep putting my flags back up til one of them got bored enough to leave, then I took his weapon and capped the flags to win. There was an admin online while I did this, so there is precedent of this not being against the rules.

http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=battlesparticipated#!?page=battledetail&id=1177


Sounds just like Cyrus is a.. mad bad.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Heroin on March 25, 2013, 02:26:47 pm
Yes, any strategy that works with the fact there is something working differently than it should be (misuse) shall get you banned.

That's like saying I'm not allowed to swing my sword if my enemy is having a problem swinging his. I am a player of the game. My only job is to play the game. I don't need to change my tactics or stop playing the game following the normal rules just because the game is not functioning optimally.

Making the game function optimally is the devs job. Ban them if you're unsatisfied with the way they're fulfilling their side of the deal.

As for me, and those on my team, we were doing exactly what we were supposed to be doing as players of the game.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Arthur_ on March 25, 2013, 03:52:10 pm
what about we'd say everyone is wrong and everyone gets unbanned (I guess we allready are) and you all better take a look at the topic of the month on this forum :

http://forum.meleegaming.com/announcements/t47296/

Also It was unfair to get them banned, since they were fighting but admin banned them anyway, BUT Im not saying those guys didn't delay, some of them did but it was still allowed if you ask me, since they did it becouse of trying to get flags up and people regrouped (I was in Guard's team btw).
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Mongolista on March 25, 2013, 08:06:12 pm
Badplayer: In your case the players actually had a chance to shoot you down or use pikes to take you down, whereas the guys in this battle did not have that chance.

Heroin: Im sorry but I really have no idea how to respond to that, youre jumping from one completely irrational argument to another. If you just care about how to play bugged game then I guess the admin cared just about you not playing it the way you shouldnt? I still dont understand the discussion, if the admin warns you something is against the rules, you should stop doing it immediately, not question whether it is or it is not against the rules, as the judges interpret the law, the admins interpret the game rules. You should have seen this coming when you started shouting FUCK OFF on all these warnings, you clearly shown where you stand and you should take the responsibility for it like a man. I would have taken it if you have followed the admins orders and then make this thread questioning whether it is the right interpretation of the game rules or not. But you clearly disobeyed the GM and you were punished for it, no need to rage, we all have been there, we all had to experience this to understand what follows if you dont listen to the admin.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on March 25, 2013, 08:12:26 pm
if the admin warns you something is against the rules, you should stop doing it immediately, not question whether it is or it is not against the rules, as the judges interpret the law, the admins interpret the game rules.

So you're saying that the people still fighting were justified in being banned? 

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I'm on a roll today, shutting down forum baddies.  L2P is now going to stand for "learn 2 post"
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Mongolista on March 25, 2013, 08:34:26 pm
So you're saying that the people still fighting were justified in being banned?

No, Im talking about those who were not fighting, I have said earlier I do not fully support that admins decision. L2r as I will ignore your trolling and playing with words in the future. It is not my fault you understood only half of the story.  :wink:
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Lt_Anders on March 25, 2013, 09:25:32 pm
No, Im talking about those who were not fighting, I have said earlier I do not fully support that admins decision. L2r as I will ignore your trolling and playing with words in the future. It is not my fault you understood only half of the story.  :wink:

And?
If at least 2 people are fighting, the rest do not have to fight. Period. That. Is. The. Rule. Delaying is refusing to fight when you are last alive. You can delay as much as you want in regular battle and let the enemy team chase you as long as someone else is able to fight. The moment you are the last person, you are delaying and refusing to fight. In this battle, there WERE people fighting, and the rest were doing what they wanted(as in live longer). Ever heard of Sacrifice? Throw away a pawn to save a queen, and that's what they were doing!

Since people keep bringing up the "They were delaying!" Bullshit: HERE:
No drawing/delaying the round on purpose (i.e. running away or camping unreachable places when you're one of the last people alive)

The rules for ALL SERVERS, BATTLE AND STRAT! If it's fine in battle, it is fine in strat.

So, if everyone was naked, then it's an equivelent battle and it then comes down to capping flags and forcing them to come to you. The attackers ATTEMPTED this, but defenders never let them(by leaving a few pawns to prevent this) and ensured the majority of their team was being as unkillable as possible(the queen).
Common Sense would dictate that
1) Running away to force the enemy to lose is a valid tactic.
I'm fairly certain I can list 1 (http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=battlesparticipated#!?page=battledetail&id=2717)    (Same battle but to form post about it) (http://forum.meleegaming.com/diplomacy/witchcraft-demon-of-the-tundra/)(or more) battles that were won by this tactic. (there was also a fallen battle that was won by bumping the enemy to death, taking their weapons after that and killing them. In this battle they used speed as their advantage, and targeted those who were isolated and won.)
2) Attackers must Kill Defenders
3) Defenders must survive(Coincides with #1)

Abusing Bug to gain Undeserved benefits:
1) if this was a normal battle, they could do the exact same thing as this. Running and not engaging is a valid, legal tactic regardless of gear setup.
2) "But....but....it was a bugged battle, so the rules don't apply like that!"
Bullshit. The rules always apply. VE versus LCO. Site bugged, and VE had nothing to assault castle with. SO you know what happened? Attackers were told to quit(as they could not attack as they had no siege gear) and they lost that battle(of course both sides worked out stuff to return lost gear) but VE was forced to lose 1600 troops because of the rules, even though it was a bug.
http://forum.meleegaming.com/strategus-issues/the-bug-at-new-caraf-castle/


So go take this bullshit about supporting the ban and flush it right down the toilet. There's already 1 linked precedent for a bugged battle and enforced rules, and the rules them selves being damn clear over this.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: cmp on March 25, 2013, 09:43:47 pm
Adminship suspended pending further investigation.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Keshian on March 25, 2013, 11:07:36 pm

VE versus LCO. Site bugged, and VE had nothing to assault castle with. SO you know what happened? Attackers were told to quit(as they could not attack as they had no siege gear) and they lost that battle(of course both sides worked out stuff to return lost gear) but VE was forced to lose 1600 troops because of the rules, even though it was a bug.
http://forum.meleegaming.com/strategus-issues/the-bug-at-new-caraf-castle/


So go take this bullshit about supporting the ban and flush it right down the toilet. There's already 1 linked precedent for a bugged battle and enforced rules, and the rules them selves being damn clear over this.

This seems to go in support of the admin's actions.  They couldn't attack because of bug and rather than exploiting and just running every which way hoping enemy team would quit from boredom and eat up their time, they were forced to call a retreat by the admin there.  They could have complained that if the bug hadn't occurred they shouldn't be required to retreat by an admin, but it was the only logical response form an admin given the circumstances had changed because of the bug.  Same situation - only logical response from the enemy side abusing the bug by running everywhere on the map so theys tarted abnning. 


I remember a strategus 1 battle where 1 pecores guy kept running away with 1000 tickets left alive (you couldn't cap flags back then), we were the attacking nords and the admin eventually banned him (decision was upheld), because he was blatantly wasting people's time (griefing/trolling).  He may have eventually "won" if we all grew bored enough to quit nut it was winning by abuse.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Lt_Anders on March 25, 2013, 11:14:09 pm
Whatever. Look above your post kesh and please be quiet.

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Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Mongolista on March 26, 2013, 12:00:14 am
Do not read this unless you really wanna spend 2 minutes on a comment that does not in any way contribute to this discussion.

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Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Blackzilla on March 26, 2013, 12:04:26 am
Do not read this unless you really wanna spend 2 minutes on a comment that does not in any way contribute to this discussion.

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I didn't sense any anger from Anders, in his post I see his neutral point of view and his post on the rules
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Lt_Anders on March 26, 2013, 12:17:27 am
Sigh. :rolleyes:

Also black, it's Sense. Don't use auto correct all the time :lol:

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Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Mongolista on March 26, 2013, 12:34:19 am
Sigh. :rolleyes:


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Oh, so you understood I wrote an argument ad personam which does not in any way contribute to the discussion? I bow before your great intellect, you could have as well just read the spoiler warning and save your time. At least I did not try to make it a valid point for the discussion. But if you really want to continue in the discussion, then all I have to say to your previous theatrical post is that your arguments, even if valid, are not to the point as my arguments were based on the fact that people write FUCK OFF to admins warning in pink chat. As I said, either follow what the admin tells you and then question his interpretation on the forum/irc chat, or write FUCK OFF to his warning, dont listen to him and risk getting banned, simple as that. Period. That. Is. The. Rule. As some would say.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Blackzilla on March 26, 2013, 12:36:30 am
Sigh. :rolleyes:

Also black, it's Sense. Don't use auto correct all the time :lol:

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My phone is out to get me. I know the difference between "since" and "sense" I'm not dumB! My phone is :D
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Zaren on March 26, 2013, 12:50:59 am
Do not read this unless you really wanna spend 2 minutes on a comment that does not in any way contribute to this discussion.

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blah blah blah blah-rule 1. Anders is ALWAYS right
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Kelugarn on March 26, 2013, 01:07:14 am
Oh, so you understood I wrote an argument ad personam which does not in any way contribute to the discussion? I bow before your great intellect, you could have as well just read the spoiler warning and save your time. At least I did not try to make it a valid point for the discussion. But if you really want to continue in the discussion, then all I have to say to your previous theatrical post is that your arguments, even if valid, are not to the point as my arguments were based on the fact that people write FUCK OFF to admins warning in pink chat. As I said, either follow what the admin tells you and then question his interpretation on the forum/irc chat, or write FUCK OFF to his warning, dont listen to him and risk getting banned, simple as that. Period. That. Is. The. Rule. As some would say.

The problem is that the judgement of this admin was flawed.
Title: Re: Possible Serious Admin Abuse
Post by: Sparvico on March 26, 2013, 01:14:37 am
Thank you for your response cmp.