cRPG
cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: CtrlAltDe1337 on January 06, 2011, 10:45:04 pm
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Well amid all the whining post I thought I'd throw this in here. This is party a discussion thread but also party a suggestion thread, as you shall see. But now to the substance of this here post
*ahem*
So after playing cRPG often for several months, I must say I've never enjoyed it so much as now, despite the bugs. The new upkeep system is quite wonderful, as it adds more to character customization than zerg to the highest level armor/weapon. Now you must weigh not only the weapon stats, but its cost, when deciding what to buy. I've bought some things--and I've seen others do the same--which I never would have purchased before because, although it was good for the price, it wasn't top level equipment. This is great because it adds a lot more variety and gets more equipment used.
Secondly, the new XP system is great. No longer do you have to grind retirements or stay clustered together in a mob and bash into the other mob with no tactic or organization. I've been flanking, defending positions, and other such things which I didn't do before because you got no XP doing it. Also, playing siege has been fun, but that's a bit off topic so I won't go further. The grind has been severely reduced. Now you can just play and try to win and not worry about XP. This is a great thing and makes the game a lot more fun.
The biggest flaw I see in the new system is the fact that winning gives you such a high bonus. Normally this wouldn't be an issue, since the better organized & skilled team should work together to win and get a reward, right? Not really, because autostack autobalance throws you in randomly with whoever. I think I saw something about autobalance by banner, which is a step in the right direction for more teamwork. But the system needs more work. Right now you get tons more XP for winning, which you can hardly control. I'd really like to see the default xp/gold turned up a little and the bonus reduced to X .50 each win or less.
Now about the upkeep, I will say a few more words. The folks who want to play the game to have fun and use all kinds of armor and sundry times are out having fun, while the tincan chinese gold farmers who have no skill are complaining "zomg chadz mah armor costs too much! waaah waaah" At this I smile. The game has gotten a lot more like Native in this respect. In Native you run around with low/mid level gear most of the time, and if you do good, then you can afford some high-level gear. This now is quite similar. Now I anticipate much of the cRPG population, upon reading this, will think: "but cRPG isn't supposed to be like native, its supposed to be a constant grindfest where everyone wears plate with lightning fast 2-hand swords and the guy with the higher stats beats everyone else to a pulp customizable!" Well, I don't think that was chadz vision.
If I may venture a guess, I think chadz wanted to make a mod which took the best parts of Native, but adds persistent stats and customized equipment. Which this patch does well. Not do say it doesn't have its shortfalls. There are still many. In fact, you will probably see me posting a lot here wanting things changed. Yet I think we've got the nuts and bolts of the engine made, so to speak, and now we just need to fine tune it. And here are some ideas to get us started thinking about this:
I'd like to see cRPG money dis-linked from Strategus and a Strategus economy added. I know this will take some work and time.
As I already mentioned, the autobalance needs to be changed. Please let us play with our clan mates. You are never going to get good teamwork out of pubs, especially without some kind of voice server for everyone to use. Maybe throw in some kind of squad system (perhaps an evolution of the current battalions?) Let autobalance reassign everyone in the squad at once, so people can stay together with their friends and clan mates. This is still one of my biggest complaints, since it feels very lonely playing by my self. There is no point being on vent when half the people there are on the other team, and you are just going to get autobalanced in a few rounds away from the ones on your team. Or maybe make some clan system built into cRPG (separate from Strategus since some people have alts). I'm sure you bright folks can think of something.
And where are the American servers? I'm tired of playing with 150-200 ping D:
An a totally different idea, show gold ingame on your stats page. That way if I'm wondering "should I wear my heavy set of armor this round, or do I have enough extra money?" I can simply press C, check, and make a decision. Also some kind of counter showing the maximum repair bill you will have to pay for your current equipment (ie if all your stuff got damaged, how much would it cost).
TL;DR
Click here (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php)
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Great post, man. Well said.
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I agree wholeheartedly. I've always been one to have lots of different characters of varying effectiveness, and frankly it was getting old facing the same equipment over and over.
Also, the in-game character page does display how much gold you have. It's in the top right corner, if I recall.
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The max repair value would sure be nice though.
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Yesterday i was unsure, today after the hotfix, i actually agree. Some things still need to be balanced, some gameplay features implemented /tweaked (siege for instance), but it's definately good.
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+1
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(siege for instance)
Hm? Siege seems amazing to me with the 6 minute rounds. What do you think needs to be improved?
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Hm? Siege seems amazing to me with the 6 minute rounds. What do you think needs to be improved?
Attackers get MUCH more xp/gold than defenders, simply because they always win.
P.S. i played on the 12 minutes server , i guess it's better with 6 minute rounds , my bad.
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I was also on a 12 minute siege game and defenders never won...settings definitely need to be tweaked. 5 or 6 seems ideal from what I've seen.
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I was also on a 12 minute siege game and defenders never won...settings definitely need to be tweaked. 5 or 6 seems ideal from what I've seen.
I'd rather reduce the respawn timer a bit for defenders - less waiting, more playing.
Also, many thanks for a great first post, I'd say spot on :)
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Attackers get MUCH more xp/gold than defenders, simply because they always win.
P.S. i played on the 12 minutes server , i guess it's better with 6 minute rounds , my bad.
chadz have already set the EU5 and EU6 siege servers to six minutes. Been there, played for a while and it works. In fact, defenders won more times than attackers. Siege is working now!
I'd rather reduce the respawn timer a bit for defenders - less waiting, more playing.
Please don't do it! Defenders and attackers are evenly matched now. If you tweak the respawn time, increase the round time as well, because if defenders get any more boost, it'll be the opposite of the original situation - attacking would be impossible. siege balance at the moment: bullseye.
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Well, autobalance by banner is an AWESOME thing. I was unsure before, but this really allows me to play with my clanmates, whilst still balancing the teams.
I have had lots of fun teaming up with clanmates, amidst the usual chaos of battle.
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Another satisfied customer. I remember how the new transition between gold earning made whine posts. When it used to be your team won everyone gets gold/exp based on enemy's equip and such. Then it switched to the previous one we use to have before this patch and people cried when that one was going to come out, but it turned out just fine. Just let things settle in people.
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This patch is great and my thanks to the dev team who worked on it.
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Siege: We'll see, I'll wait with further balancing until we figure out whats the real case.
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wow, now that archers are useless cavarly and 2h can rape!
great patch!
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Just wait till everyone gains back their levels. You'll see it rebalance. It takes time just like all the other patches when new EXP/Gold systems have been added.
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I've tried to play a few times since the patch came out and shit is all fucked up. Both playing the game and the various problems with all the servers now (NA). I want to go play on cRPG and there is no server I can play on. I got onto EU siege server for awhile and relogged and now I can't even join that. Even when I do manage to get on a server (one of the NA ones is up) the game just kind of sucks now. Every single person I fight against has a 2h weapon and just spams it over and over and everyone has the same attack speed, etc. Fuck this mod now.
I want the old experience back where everyone differed in terms of stats in addition to gear.
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wow, now that archers are useless cavarly and 2h can rape!
That is so not true. Archers are a just more balanced now. Historically, cavs acted as counter to archers, and this is what we see in Crpg now. Archer in the open field -> dead meat for cav. Archer on the roof -> dead horse. Now, don't forget that having horse is expensive. I lose 1k (before .201 I was losing 4k gold) gold for my sarranid quite often. Thats why I dont use horse on the map where cav is at disadvantage.
As for 2handers, their armor is weak, so now with my 1hander and shield I can defeat most of them.
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chadz, about balancing, does it take into account your KD ratio???
If it does, and it takes the overall Ratio there is a problem: Some players, specially some HA and archer (i know am one) had a pre patch excellent KD ratios. If this KD ratios are taken into cosideration for team balancing, the real statistical balance will be untrue.
If that is the case, I would propose that auto balacing would calculate the KD ration from the player last 7 days, and put that figure into the equation (assuming you keep time based records of players, and not just 1 set of data)
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Though i do think repair is a bit expensive it does have its uses
Now i dont have to use my ugly 10k armor i can look like a cool khergit warrior with steppe armor and long hafted blade :3
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Can you please not make us pay when we win a round?
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Allers dont complain :o
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With the new patch i get more lag snd lagspikes and the playing seems slower(ie rounds take longer). I feel as though the game has lost its edge and is much less exciting.
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Extremely well developed system to ensure fairplay and fun. For all of us who spent months to obtain heirloomed items, the second patch is greatly appreciated. The reduced cost of the upkeep system allows me to wear some of those items, though not all, and I agree this is good.
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ill say nothing since criticism is bad and we only want good comments on this patch
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Indeed. Brilliant patch, game is so much better than it was prior to the patch. Loved it then, love it even more now.
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The previous rage is gone, siege is perfect now, thank chadz a wonderful game!
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I was waiting for this and not playing crpg at all only strategus. Now finally i have soooo much joy from CRPG as i ever wanted to have :)
Of course still waiting for furure patches cos there is still lot of things to improve but this level is enought for me to start playing again :)
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chadz, about balancing, does it take into account your KD ratio???
If it does, and it takes the overall Ratio there is a problem: Some players, specially some HA and archer (i know am one) had a pre patch excellent KD ratios. If this KD ratios are taken into cosideration for team balancing, the real statistical balance will be untrue.
If that is the case, I would propose that auto balacing would calculate the KD ration from the player last 7 days, and put that figure into the equation (assuming you keep time based records of players, and not just 1 set of data)
I also noted while playing crossbowman since patch, that I would often hit a target but not kill it then someone would come and hit my target with a club and kill it so not an awesome KD but meh, i help the team :)
What I wonder if it would be possible to add a "damage counter" of sorts, and track how much damage people do. I think that would be a more telling stat than kills.
I think it might be possible to ? Since I know some mods show you the damage you do with arrows and such.
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Make that k/d ratio influence % of upkeep in positive(like less % with good k/d) or adding a fix bonus in gold to remove from upkeep request. we wanna that the mod is more skill based right?
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Anything related to the amount of kills leads to fraghunting and team chopping to get the kill.
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Anything related to the amount of kills leads to fraghunting and team chopping to get the kill.
like is already, but at list we premiate ability, and force ppl to play, and not to leech, or get naked if on losing team, with such system ppl will be forced to try win if they losed first round : by using tactics, and brain. becouse they cant say, lets undress all, or lets wear bad equip, if they are going to pay more upkeep for that .
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Make that k/d ratio influence % of upkeep in positive(like less % with good k/d) or adding a fix bonus in gold to remove from upkeep request. we wanna that the mod is more skill based right?
Like I said, K/D is not a good way to measure performance. A damage counter would be.
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Like I said, K/D is not a good way to measure performance. A damage counter would be.
whatever
dmg counter can work also, if i kill i do many dmg, pretty much is same. system -.- except that you not need to kill ppl , you can wound 10 and make more dmg to opposite theam than a guy who made dunno 4 kill maybe and is 4:o
whatever premiate ability is fine for me
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Good words ctrldeleet.
I'm starting to thing that crpg has two souls (well a bit more but they are subcategories): the people who come from native, who don't really like the grind but love the option of characterization and the other who like the way skills can be switched to time spent playing (ie grinding to higher level).
Both are viable way to enjoy the game, but the difference between the two groups are what make people whine in the end, when chadz, coming from the native born part, changes something
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Well amid all the whining post I thought I'd throw this in here. This is party a discussion thread but also party a suggestion thread, as you shall see. But now to the substance of this here post
*ahem*
So after playing cRPG often for several months, I must say I've never enjoyed it so much as now, despite the bugs. The new upkeep system is quite wonderful, as it adds more to character customization than zerg to the highest level armor/weapon. Now you must weigh not only the weapon stats, but its cost, when deciding what to buy. I've bought some things--and I've seen others do the same--which I never would have purchased before because, although it was good for the price, it wasn't top level equipment. This is great because it adds a lot more variety and gets more equipment used.
Secondly, the new XP system is great. No longer do you have to grind retirements or stay clustered together in a mob and bash into the other mob with no tactic or organization. I've been flanking, defending positions, and other such things which I didn't do before because you got no XP doing it. Also, playing siege has been fun, but that's a bit off topic so I won't go further. The grind has been severely reduced. Now you can just play and try to win and not worry about XP. This is a great thing and makes the game a lot more fun.
The biggest flaw I see in the new system is the fact that winning gives you such a high bonus. Normally this wouldn't be an issue, since the better organized & skilled team should work together to win and get a reward, right? Not really, because autostack autobalance throws you in randomly with whoever. I think I saw something about autobalance by banner, which is a step in the right direction for more teamwork. But the system needs more work. Right now you get tons more XP for winning, which you can hardly control. I'd really like to see the default xp/gold turned up a little and the bonus reduced to X .50 each win or less.
Now about the upkeep, I will say a few more words. The folks who want to play the game to have fun and use all kinds of armor and sundry times are out having fun, while the tincan chinese gold farmers who have no skill are complaining "zomg chadz mah armor costs too much! waaah waaah" At this I smile. The game has gotten a lot more like Native in this respect. In Native you run around with low/mid level gear most of the time, and if you do good, then you can afford some high-level gear. This now is quite similar. Now I anticipate much of the cRPG population, upon reading this, will think: "but cRPG isn't supposed to be like native, its supposed to be a constant grindfest where everyone wears plate with lightning fast 2-hand swords and the guy with the higher stats beats everyone else to a pulp customizable!" Well, I don't think that was chadz vision.
If I may venture a guess, I think chadz wanted to make a mod which took the best parts of Native, but adds persistent stats and customized equipment. Which this patch does well. Not do say it doesn't have its shortfalls. There are still many. In fact, you will probably see me posting a lot here wanting things changed. Yet I think we've got the nuts and bolts of the engine made, so to speak, and now we just need to fine tune it. And here are some ideas to get us started thinking about this:
I'd like to see cRPG money dis-linked from Strategus and a Strategus economy added. I know this will take some work and time.
As I already mentioned, the autobalance needs to be changed. Please let us play with our clan mates. You are never going to get good teamwork out of pubs, especially without some kind of voice server for everyone to use. Maybe throw in some kind of squad system (perhaps an evolution of the current battalions?) Let autobalance reassign everyone in the squad at once, so people can stay together with their friends and clan mates. This is still one of my biggest complaints, since it feels very lonely playing by my self. There is no point being on vent when half the people there are on the other team, and you are just going to get autobalanced in a few rounds away from the ones on your team. Or maybe make some clan system built into cRPG (separate from Strategus since some people have alts). I'm sure you bright folks can think of something.
And where are the American servers? I'm tired of playing with 150-200 ping D:
An a totally different idea, show gold ingame on your stats page. That way if I'm wondering "should I wear my heavy set of armor this round, or do I have enough extra money?" I can simply press C, check, and make a decision. Also some kind of counter showing the maximum repair bill you will have to pay for your current equipment (ie if all your stuff got damaged, how much would it cost).
TL;DR
Click here (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php)
I completely agree! :D
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As many found out now, the main problem is the differences in what we though cRPG was supposed to be.
A minority including chadz want it to be Native with improved customisation and additional equipment.
A majority consider it as a highly skill-based PVP MMORPG.
Where having a problem here. The mod developpers can't stand long trying to satisfy both populations, and there will be a drop in the playerbase when people from the second population will start to get boring because nothing changes in their gameplay anymore (hitting level 30 and max upkeep value).
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What changed pre patch though ? "Top" player would just hit 40 something and get the best gear / stats and nothing would change either. What's the difference ?
Aside from not being 100% better than the average guy, but only 10% or something.
Or am I given to understand that the reason behind the uproar here is that people that used to grind their faces off (skilled or not doesn't matter) no longer have a huge advantage over the average player and most likely die when trying to wade into groups of 10 people by themselves ? :P