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cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Kulin_ban on March 23, 2013, 04:37:20 pm

Title: HACKED
Post by: Kulin_ban on March 23, 2013, 04:37:20 pm
HACKED
Title: Re: Long Bow is too good compared to Rus Bow
Post by: Overdriven on March 23, 2013, 05:52:43 pm
Never though I'd see such a post  :lol:

I don't see to much of a problem. Rus bow has 6 extra speed and only loses 4 accuracy and 3 damage. So it's basically speed vs damage.
Title: Re: Long Bow is too good compared to Rus Bow
Post by: Nazurdin on March 23, 2013, 06:04:05 pm
Aww, and I remember times when nobody would use the bloody thing.
Title: Re: Long Bow is too good compared to Rus Bow
Post by: donib on March 23, 2013, 06:07:19 pm
I thought the effective accuracy was in relation the damage. So lets say bow a has 100 acc and 40 damage vs bow b with 90 accuracy but 20 damage. I thought that was a game mechanic, i think i read it somewhere on the forum when i wanted to try archery.

So the netto difference in long bow and rus bow is: Longbow does 3 more damage and has 1 more accuracy. This is justified because the of the price difference, but i think they should put both in the same range but make a solid difference in the two and not just make one weapon completely inferior than the other.

But thats an issue in general in this game, as you have made earlier topics about the arming sword i believe, it just doesnt give any benefit to wield a crappy weapon.
Title: Re: Long Bow is too good compared to Rus Bow
Post by: Arrowblood on March 23, 2013, 06:12:12 pm
WHAAAYYYYYYY KULIN
Title: Re: Long Bow is too good compared to Rus Bow
Post by: Rumblood on March 23, 2013, 08:58:29 pm
6 draw speed isn't slight, it is significant.

Try a longbow vs rus bow duel and see who wins if you don't believe me.
Title: Re: Long Bow is too good compared to Rus Bow
Post by: XyNox on March 23, 2013, 10:03:28 pm
I will tell you the same as before Kulin. Now a bit more detailed however, since I have a bit more time than ingame.


The longbow is now a viable choice because the rusbow got nerfed. Everyone and their mother was using a rusbow before while being cheaper. The point of nerfing the rusbow was to adress exactly that issue, with success. Now there is a point in using the longbow for a hard hitting bow and the rusbow as a good alrounder. Aside, I still see a lot of people with rusbows these days. If you would now nerf the longbow it would pretty much ruin the accomplishment of diversity that has just been gained, resulting in 2 equally nerfed bows in the end.

The difference in speedrating from 50 to 56 is also a lot more significant than you might imagine. Contrary to your post, the longbow, although having more accuracy, consumes more wpf than the rusbow. The fact that it is so slow to draw requires you to have a certain minimum of WPF in order to release an arrow before your reticule starts to enlarge. For archer duels the speedrating is actually THE most important stat above all else. No matter in what situation, speedrating is always vital. People tend to jump out of cover, come round corners, try to backlance you etc. In those kind of situations, it is the speedrating ( and your wpf of course ) that decides whether you have the time to release an arrow or not. In big clusterfucks, the timewindows in which you can place a clean shot before something interrupts your shot are often very, very small. The very short "steady-reticule-time" of the longbow does not make this easier either. The list goes on.

All in all Kulin, I dont think your intention behind this is to lobby against archery but quite frankly, I think you judged too soon on that matter. Apart from that, you seemed to be a bit mad today on EU4. Had a bad day ? :wink:

( Also those pictures are weird since the longbow weights 4 now, not 1.5 )
Title: Re: Long Bow is too good compared to Rus Bow
Post by: Kamirane on March 23, 2013, 10:24:01 pm
6 draw speed isn't slight, it is significant.

Try a longbow vs rus bow duel and see who wins if you don't believe me.

so true.... and because of the pullspeed, misslespeed and upkeep too, alot of ppl using Hornbow instead of Yumi+
Title: Re: Long Bow is too good compared to Rus Bow
Post by: Gmnotutoo on March 24, 2013, 02:23:06 am
I had a pure archer build with 6 wpm and at level 33 I still couldn't aim the longbow perfectly, that reticule jumps so quickly that you literally have like 1-2 seconds to shoot before it expands to the point of being inaccurate.

I used the longbow for a year and a half. I've seen it be both the best and worth choices for archers, now in this era of archery its well balanced to the Horn, Yumi, and Rus.

Is your main even an archer or are you just a melee player that dabbles in archery so that you can claim on the forums its op to get it nerfed?
Title: Re: Long Bow is too good compared to Rus Bow
Post by: XyNox on March 24, 2013, 01:04:31 pm
Lots of points Kulin. Adressing all of these in detail would just escalate in another theoretical archery balance discussion, saturated with "arguments" which, if at all, hold true merely to very idealized circumstances ingame. And I have already participated in those a lot more times than I am comfortable with.

But, let me tell you, I was not assuming that you were in a bad mood because of your suggestion, I was assuming so because of the way you were talking about it ingame. Since you are still assuring me that it was not the case, fine, a misunderstanding then.

I always was a longbower, even when it was inferior to the rusbow, and I will continue to use the longbow because, as you said youself, style before stats. Since we have no information regarding certain marketplace offers I would not eliminate the possibility that some people trading there simply think alike. My point being, assuming that everyone of those people want to have a longbow because its the non plus ultra bow would be a bit of a hasty decision. They might just want it for the looks, roleplay, try it out, whatever, etc.

Unless you dont present any actual video footage that shows that your complaints hold true, I am afraid this thread will be just considered empty words.
Title: Re: Long Bow is too good compared to Rus Bow
Post by: Jimjam on March 24, 2013, 01:27:46 pm
I am trying to trade my +3 Rus back for my +3 Long bow.

I used Long bow for 9 Gens and almost done 1 Gen with Rus bow now.

To be honest I prefer the damage and accuracy over draw speed however I think both the bows are balanced in comparison to each other. The speed is very useful for dueling other ranged and also for hitting cav who are about to hit you in the back - you cant always draw quick enough with the long bow and get run over.

I also prefer the long bow because I am more of a archer that shoots from a distance rather getting up close which is some peoples preferred playing style, each to their own.
Title: Re: Long Bow is too good compared to Rus Bow
Post by: Rumblood on March 25, 2013, 01:36:05 am
Yeah, that must be it, cause why in the hell would anyone be complaining about their own weapon/build?

Why is it that people value more suggestions coming from other classes, than those coming straight from the source? I especially found it funny when people on EU4 claimed I "must be having a bad day" in real life just cause I was speaking in this way about my own item. I wonder what those same people would say if they knew I actually own 2 MW Long Bows.

I used to think that rebalance patch was good, but I am now pretty sure it was only good on paper.

It is a win-win scenario for me, but I still claim that Long Bow is too damn accurate. Ranges you can engage targets with it are on par with a regular m16 assault rifle.

And lastly, if you ask those same people to trade away their Long Bow for Rus if it is all the same to them, they will make excuses like how they really enjoy Long Bow's look... pffffft, right. If you really think those bows are well balanced, than go ahead and accept one of these offers, because these people seem to think otherwise:

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


In this post, the problem isn't that you don't understand the bow (as above with the 6 draw speed), this time you don't understand economics and the marketplace. The RUS bow was the best bow for so long, and I mean over a year, that very few, if anyone bothered to MW a long bow. That means that there are very few available for trade compared to the over abundant Rus bow. After several months have gone by with people looming long bows again to MW, you will see the balance in the marketplace work itself back out again. Until that time, yes, you will have a hard time trading your MW Rus bow for MW long bows that don't yet exist in great numbers.
Title: Re: Long Bow is too good compared to Rus Bow
Post by: Jarold on March 25, 2013, 01:39:30 am
 thought accuracy didn't even matter past the number value of 99.  :lol:   I thought that was hard coded in.
Title: Re: Long Bow is too good compared to Rus Bow
Post by: Penitent on March 25, 2013, 02:19:15 am
Buff all bows to have +1 damage except long bow.

Balance achieved.

OP is right, there is really a shortage of viable bows.  You basically have 2 choices: Rus or Long...and Long is clearly the better choice right now.
Title: Re: Long Bow is too good compared to Rus Bow
Post by: Gmnotutoo on March 25, 2013, 09:29:53 am
I perfectly understand that there is abundance of MW Rus Bows and I do understand that market =/= balance, but why is it that people have loomed so many Long Bows in the first place, while trying to get rid of Rus Bows at the same time?

It is because Long Bow is obviously a better choice for archer, a superior choice really.

The only thing the longbow is superior in is killing tin-can melee people with no shields that have a snail like movement speed, it also does well for shooting horses. Rus/Horn are superior against other ranged, agi melee, shielders, the evil horse ranged, and against cav up close or mid-range. Hell, I could use a short bow and kill a longbow archer before they could even fire off a shot. A peasant with stones and 50 wpf in throwing can completely ruin a longbow archer. You don't seem to grasp all the negative traits that come with using a longbow.

Also the most loomed bow is the Horn Bow, so good fight. You just don't see it on the marketplace because every archer owns one or at least has access to one.
Title: Re: Long Bow is too good compared to Rus Bow
Post by: Le_Mikz on March 25, 2013, 02:15:25 pm
People say archery is OP, but in reality, part of it is due to most archers using the Long Bow!

Long Bow is too good compared to Rus Bow. It is more damaging and more accurate. Rus Bow only has slightly more draw speed.

How do I know? I am using one right now, and have also been exclusively using it pre-buff-patch.

Before the buff, it actually required skill to use, but now it's a CS simulator, headshots all the time with insane damage over distance.

(click to show/hide)

IMO, in +3 state, keep it's damage(33c), missle speed(42) and weight(4) nerfed, but lower the accuracy to 103.

Most archers switched to Long Bow and rarely anyone uses Rus Bow, which also lost a lot of it's market value.

 Hmm wait.. they nerfed Rus Bow so long bow should be nerfed too then?? =D
Title: Re: Long Bow is too good compared to Rus Bow
Post by: Rumblood on March 25, 2013, 07:09:27 pm
Why is it that people value more suggestions coming from other classes, than those coming straight from the source?

Well, the suggestion I made was intended for developers, not for biased archers.

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Title: Re: Long Bow is too good compared to Rus Bow
Post by: Little Lord Lollipop on March 26, 2013, 03:50:03 am
Long Bow hits hard and is accurate....its also slow as fuck. I tried it and ditched it within 15 minutes. I've always found draw speed to be more beneficial than damage. If the Rus Bow is underpowered compared to the Long Bow why not just give it a small buff? In its current state i would say the Long Bow is fine.
Title: Re: Long Bow is too good compared to Rus Bow
Post by: XyNox on March 26, 2013, 11:13:26 am
I may have put too much emphasis on explaining my point of view about current bow balance that I may have missed the point.

So here it it:

If you think the longbow is too good now because the rusbow got (over ?)nerfed, why dont you suggest to rebuff the rusbow to bring it back in line instead of suggesting another nerf for the longbow ?

Otherwise it would just be this:

Hmm wait.. they nerfed Rus Bow so long bow should be nerfed too then?? =D
Title: Re: Long Bow is too good compared to Rus Bow
Post by: Little Lord Lollipop on March 26, 2013, 10:50:04 pm
The people that say archery OP will continue to say that no matter how many nerfs archery endures.
Title: Re: Long Bow is too good compared to Rus Bow
Post by: Penitent on March 26, 2013, 10:53:38 pm
This is all I think of when someone is saying archery is OP or should be nerfed:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Long Bow is too good compared to Rus Bow
Post by: Cup1d on March 27, 2013, 03:39:11 am
If you really interested in bows balance, I can recommend you to try how it work with 1-4 tier bows. Then I would like to hear what you can advise in this case.
In comparison you can try to use some lowtier and hightier 2h or Pole weapons, just to check how balance work in other departments.

I think that something is really wrong there.
Title: Re: Long Bow is too good compared to Rus Bow
Post by: Gmnotutoo on March 27, 2013, 03:55:45 am
If you really interested in bows balance, I can recommend you to try how it work with 1-4 tier bows. Then I would like to hear what you can advise in this case.
In comparison you can try to use some lowtier and hightier 2h or Pole weapons, just to check how balance work in other departments.

I think that something is really wrong there.

Yeah, there is something wrong. Archery needs to be buffed as a whole, because its nerfed into the ground right now. I know three dedicated archers in the FCC that respec'd out of the class (myself included) after playing it for a very long time. All of us were longbow users which is why I find this thread absolutely hilarious. I don't think I'm ever going back either, so this isn't a personal opinion to benefit myself.
Title: Re: Long Bow is too good compared to Rus Bow
Post by: Rumblood on March 27, 2013, 04:55:33 am
I perfectly understand that there is abundance of MW Rus Bows and I do understand that market =/= balance, but why is it that people have loomed so many Long Bows in the first place, while trying to get rid of Rus Bows at the same time?

Again, no understanding of market forces. Rus bow used to be a good barter item as it was superior in every way, in other words, it was 100% of the top tier bow market. Now that the market is at 50/50, it creates a glut of Rus bows and thus there is no reason to loom them because it no longer holds 100% of market demand. On the other hand, as I explained already, almost nobody loomed long bows for the last year except to round out their inventory because they already loomed everything else.The people trying to get rid of the Rus bow are market brokers looking to move into less glutted and therefore more lucrative areas. You see very few people trying to do a Rus for Long bow trade. Archers don't ditch their loomed bows as they know the flavor changes on a dev whim.
Title: Re: Long Bow is too good compared to Rus Bow
Post by: Rumblood on March 27, 2013, 02:57:11 pm
And for the second time you fail to answer as to WHY, all of a sudden, people decided to loom the Long Bow if both bows are so balanced?

Why would they loom a bow they already have and of which there is a glut on the market? They loom a bow that previously wasn't worth the time and effort to loom and you can't buy because there is not enough to support the demand due to its weakness for well over a year, i.e, the long bow.

Again, quit trying to use market data to determine whether an item is too powerful. Use actual weapon data. The difference between the bows has already been more than adequately explained to you. Flat out, you are wrong and continuing with these red herrings isn't going to suddenly make you right.
Title: Re: Long Bow is too good compared to Rus Bow
Post by: Umbra on March 27, 2013, 03:16:45 pm
Why would they loom a bow they already have and of which there is a glut on the market? They loom a bow that previously wasn't worth the time and effort to loom and you can't buy because there is not enough to support the demand due to its weakness for well over a year, i.e, the long bow.

Again, quit trying to use market data to determine whether an item is too powerful. Use actual weapon data. The difference between the bows has already been more than adequately explained to you. Flat out, you are wrong and continuing with these red herrings isn't going to suddenly make you right.

The irony is killing me, my sides, ah!
Title: Re: Long Bow is too good compared to Rus Bow
Post by: Rumblood on March 27, 2013, 05:00:20 pm
The irony is killing me, my sides, ah!

First post. Your pal then repeated over and over and over that the market and loom was the data that showed he was correct. Not only did I shut down his complaint about stats, I also shut down his market and loom theory. You don't know irony.

6 draw speed isn't slight, it is significant.

Try a longbow vs rus bow duel and see who wins if you don't believe me.

Squeals of a cornered rat. Also of a rat that's been going trough the same old corridors in the labyrinth, over and over again.

YOU are the one that is stuck on "market data", because you use it to avoid, for the third time, an answer to a simple question: If both bows are so well balanced, WHY did so many Rus Bow owners go trough the trouble of looming long bow 3 times? It makes no sense to, all of a sudden, ditch an allegedly equally balanced MW weapon in favor of another allegedly equally balanced +0 weapon that will inevitably cost you a lot trough looming.

I just can't make it any more clear for you. If you get to answer that one, you can try these too:

Why is it that I see Long Bow used all the time in practice, while I catch a glimpse of Rus Bow user every now and than? (I AM EURO, BTW)

Why did long term hardcore Rus Bow users (in EU: ROBINHOOD, shokogushi and some others) permanently switched to Long Bow?

Let me answer it: Because it is A BETTER BOW.

Fucking delusional. You were told UP FRONT what the difference was between the bows, and then kept demanding an answer to your market sales and heirloom question. YES, half the people would switch from Rus to Long bow when 99% of them previously used the Rus bow and would have preferred to use the long bow for various reasons but it was an empirically INFERIOR bow. Now that they are equally good bows, people will be naturally moving to from the Rus to the Long bow because there was almost nobody using the long bow to switch now to the Rus.

You are simply going to say anything you can to "win" your argument. Which is exactly what I was pointing out with the "cute" gif.

Why is it that people value more suggestions coming from other classes, than those coming straight from the source?

Here you try to establish your authority as an archer to discredit any other class from being able to give credible input.

Well, the suggestion I made was intended for developers, not for biased archers.

Here you didn't like what what someone who is an archer had to say so you dismiss "biased archers". Sorry pal, you don't get it both ways.

But keep fooling yourself into thinking you know what you are talking about. Just don't expect anyone else to drink your Kool-Aid.
Title: Re: Long Bow is too good compared to Rus Bow
Post by: XyNox on March 27, 2013, 06:20:30 pm
Jeez Kulin this is getting silly now.

People use longbows because IT IS A VIABLE CHOICE NOW.

When only few people were using a longbow before and everyone else was using a rusbow, what do you expect to see on the marketplace ? People trading their non existing longbows for rusbows ??

When a new item becomes "available" due to rebalance, of course people try it out/switch. All the people who always wanted to play with a longbow but simply couldnt do so because the stats didnt allow for it will now be happy to give away their overused rusbow to get what they wanted to play in the first place. Aside, there is this whole romance thing around the longbow and english archery culture, just like so many people play with greatswords because of this romanticized picture of the movie 2h knights in peoples heads.

You say you understand that marketplace =/= balance, yet you dont and still you use it as your main argument to justify your personal opinion, which is the longbow being OP, to hold true on an universal level.

I may remind you that I was on the server when you were talking about the longbow being OP, where you claimed that it is SO EASY to headshot people with that bow, although you didnt even manage to get a KD of 1:1 in most matches, nor did you get an awful lot of score. You just got like 2 headshots out of what ? 50 shots ? and then you bragged about it being horribly easy for the whole game, while feeding the bottom of the scoreboard for the next map.

To make this post constructive in the end, answer me this Kulin:

1. What makes you so sure that every single person who is trading his rusbow for a longbow is doing it solely because OP'ness and not because they want to try it out / like the style more / are obsessed with the "longbow culture" / are willing to sacrifice speed for damage / etc. ? Have you spoken to all of them individually ?

2. How do you know that archers that do well with a longbow cant do the same with a rusbow, or even better ?

3. Since there are archers, like players of all other classes as well, who have played for many gens and gained many loompoints until now, how can you know that the people who switched to longbow lately didnt already have one MW in their inventory all the time ?

4. How can you call an item OP that you cant get a decent KD nor score with and is in total just not very efficient in your hands ( based on my observations when I saw you playing ) ?
Title: Re: Long Bow is too good compared to Rus Bow
Post by: Vodner on March 27, 2013, 09:30:21 pm
In the last week, I can count the number of times I've had the majority of my health removed by archers on one hand. The majority of those were headshots I survived. I've been last-hit by archers plenty of times, but only after losing most of my health to other sources.

I don't really feel like any of the bows need further nerfs.
Title: Re: Long Bow is too good compared to Rus Bow
Post by: Torben on March 27, 2013, 09:55:15 pm
you guys do realize that your barking up each others trees because you have a different opinion about the impact of accuracy... so you have two different playstyles and keep bitching at each other.  yay.

the main point is,  that the heavy lance needs a buff relative to the other lances, haha
Title: Re: Long Bow is too good compared to Rus Bow
Post by: Wolfsblood on March 27, 2013, 11:59:25 pm
if i get into an archer duel with someone who has a rus bow and i am using my long bow, unless I have superior cover, I will get wrecked everytime except if the skill level of the person using it is very much below mine.

so this discounts the longbow being OP in this situation at the very least.

Also, i don't believe that you can use marketplace data to say an item is OP. There are too many variables in reasons for many people in the market wanting this item. If you are going to use data of any kind, you should be researching the general skill of the archer populace and then compare both bows when they are in their hands. but of course this would be too much work for your average video game nerd who probably has ADD...which I should get tested for...

Finally many people who say items are OP generally point out the people who are OP with any wep.
For Example: I could cry and say the short bow is OP when masterworked  cuase frugfrug can do so well with it. but we all know that it isnt the bow that is OP.

TL;DR  Do some real empirical research before you go crying about an item being too OP
Title: Re: Long Bow is too good compared to Rus Bow
Post by: Rumblood on March 28, 2013, 02:14:03 am
Kulin, if I am concerned about any bow at all and its relative usage, it is the Yumi. I've used every bow over my 20+ generations and simply never found a compelling reason to use that one over any of the others.
Title: Re: Long Bow is too good compared to Rus Bow
Post by: Rumblood on March 28, 2013, 08:32:25 pm
Well, it basically fills the role of most damaging HA bow, at least that is what I always thought.

The problem with that is the accuracy penalty on horseback, the accuracy penalty to higher PD (3 higher than Nomad which is quite a blow), and you can only get to HA 3 at Lvl 31 because you need to put 18 into strength and it takes 6 agility per horse archer point. That makes for a poor shot. The slower missile speed does give you a better speed bonus when charging, but gets no better or worse when circle strafing other mounted ranged or pursuing cavalry. The slower missile speed also compounds that poor accuracy problem. Then there is the cost.
With ragged outfit, leather boots, Nomad and regular arrows, and a spiked club with an Arabian, I just break even on gold. The only thing you can lower in that setup is the Arabian. The courser wont be enough of a savings to keep from bleeding gold, so the best you can go with is palfrey or desert horse. Palfrey is slower than a courser with the same maneuver, so you can't get away from cavalry after you and with maneuver that low, you get eaten by HX and other HA. The desert has good enough maneuver, but the speed is so slow the maneuver won't help you against any of the other mounted classes either. Bottom line is, you go broke or become a slow moving duck.
That is just doing a strict HA compare. Throw in the HX into the mix and now you are really in trouble. Their accuracy is far better than your and they can hold it forever without the reticule expanding. You have to rely entirely on timing. Sure, if you can disrupt their reloading, you have a chance, but your accuracy is so bad from the causes listed above that you may as well hope someone else shoots them and disrupts their reload. At any rate, the armor they wear is superior as well, and with cut damage you aren't going to be one hitting them. They will one shot you though. So to compete, you need to upgrade from those arrows to bodkins. That's another 10k gold you have to remove from your equipment (5k x 2 stacks). That means you might be able to afford a Rouncey, which again lacks speed and maneuver both compared to what others are riding that will be hunting your head. Oh yes, you are also giving up 18 arrows while also being inaccurate at the same time. At least you can have 6 PS since you won't need more than 3 riding with that Rouncey you will be shot and lanced off of every round. But if you want any wpf to swing it with any usefulness, you will need to give up some of that wpf in archery, which makes you even more inaccurate if you do.
You might as well be a ground archer at that point, and then the Tatar or Horn are better choices.

Can Yumi be the most damaging of the horse archer bows? Slightly. Can it be the most effective of the horse archer bows? Not from my experience and the numbers above are why.
Title: Re: Long Bow is too good compared to Rus Bow
Post by: Ronin on March 28, 2013, 10:09:58 pm
Aren't there viable builds like 18/21, 18/18 or 21/18 for horse archer?
Title: Re: Long Bow is too good compared to Rus Bow
Post by: jtobiasm on March 28, 2013, 10:36:55 pm
I don't get what you're moaning at Kulin. I use both Long & Rus and I can get the same score with either Long Bow or Rus Bow it just depends on the map or if I need some more money. Rus bow is still perfectly viable.
Title: Re: Long Bow is too good compared to Rus Bow
Post by: Rumblood on March 29, 2013, 12:24:39 am
Aren't there viable builds like 18/21, 18/18 or 21/18 for horse archer?

Define "viable". Ask instead of there is an "effective" one.
Title: Re: Long Bow is too good compared to Rus Bow
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on March 29, 2013, 01:14:46 am
A peasant with stones and 50 wpf in throwing can completely ruin a longbow archer. You don't seem to grasp all the negative traits that come with using a longbow.
I had 120 wpf, but I can confirm this.
Title: Re: Long Bow is too good compared to Rus Bow
Post by: Kafein on March 29, 2013, 03:23:47 pm
The most battle-effective archers are those that oneshot most of the things they hit, even with bad draw times or bad accuracy. Because you are still better oneshotting people with a 70% likelyhood than twoshotting with 80% success chance per shot, even considering that people might not have all their health left.

Also this longbow argument is funny because bows are now maybe the only weapon class with the most expensive item actually the best.
Title: Re: Long Bow is too good compared to Rus Bow
Post by: Ptolemy on March 29, 2013, 04:11:18 pm
I don't want to derail the subject, since it's a fairly important one - although I personally believe that the Rus and Long are pretty well balanced now when you take upkeep into account, long is better, yes, it also costs more.

What I wanted to say was that having an archer alt and having enjoyed it for over a generation now and also being a "style over stats" player - I'm a ninja after all - I'm glad that the Yumi is now a viable bow to use on foot rather than just on the horse.
Title: Re: Long Bow is too good compared to Rus Bow
Post by: Hunter_the_Honourable on March 29, 2013, 04:28:06 pm
sooo the easymodebow (rusbow) finally gets a nerf after being one of, if not the most popular bow around and nooooow you're claiming that the longbow which was always hard to master using and a very small handful of people used and even smaller group actually Masterworked got the buff it needed and according to you that's unfair?

The rusbow probably held the title of most OP if not most used bow around and now it got knocked off the top you're QQing that your weapon is now not as good as another? For fuck sake Kulin the rusbow needed a nerf and it got one, maybe it got over nerfed maybe not eitherway the longbow was always the shitty choice out of the two now its not.

Translation: Shut up whining and QQing that your weapon got nerfed, Now you know what EVERYONE ELSE who's weapon got nerfed. Suck it up move on and keep playing.

Just another QQ thread, although its nice to see its about the rusbow being nerfed, but I guess it always deserved/had this coming  :wink:
Title: Re: Long Bow is too good compared to Rus Bow
Post by: Rumblood on March 29, 2013, 04:29:05 pm
The most battle-effective archers are those that oneshot most of the things they hit, even with bad draw times or bad accuracy. Because you are still better oneshotting people with a 70% likelyhood than twoshotting with 80% success chance per shot, even considering that people might not have all their health left.

Also this longbow argument is funny because bows are now maybe the only weapon class with the most expensive item actually the best.

You are assuming the slower bow can even get off that one shot.  :idea: 70% likely hood of hitting with a 20% chance of getting to shoot isn't great odds.
Title: Re: Long Bow is too good compared to Rus Bow
Post by: Hunter_the_Honourable on March 29, 2013, 06:27:54 pm
Actually Kulin I did read all the pages (expect a few posts) and all I see when you post is you repeating your self. Honestly Rumblood knows what his talking and I think his right, I don't see how nerfing the longbow in-order to make the rusbow "usable" again is fair because the rusbow always had a very unfair advantage against a longbow now its vise versa you think its bullshit?

The rusbow has had its "popular" time now let the longbow have some ffs.
Title: Re: Long Bow is too good compared to Rus Bow
Post by: Gmnotutoo on March 29, 2013, 06:57:52 pm
How is this even a statement? Are you retarded?

Of course a short bow can interrupt EVERY other bow/xbow(without taking into their armor, of course), and of course a thrower can "ruin" a longbow archer. That's because they are much faster, but you don't see people running around with short bows or stones cause they are USELESS/troll builds.

Do everyone a favor and get a brain.

And to everyone else, if you think that you will automatically win a duel against longbow just because your bow has faster draw speed, you are wrong. This only applies IF YOU HIT THEM EVERY TIME.

Using the same logic, if a long bow kept hitting you every time, you would not have time to draw your Rus Bow, EVER.

Do everyone a favor and stop posting balance ideas, because not only are you volatile but you clearly have no idea what balance is.

Since no one has a regular sword, they should nerf the Espada because everyone has it? Or a shield. How many shields do people actually use? I bet I can find a lot of useless ones to compare to the Huscarl and claim to get the Huscarl nerfed. I could go on and on using this same logic you are using to nerf any item I want.

If you want the Rusbow or any other bow buffed, make a post about it comparing the stats and offer a suggestion to improve the item that you think is underpowered.
Title: Re: Long Bow is too good compared to Rus Bow
Post by: Kafein on March 29, 2013, 10:45:54 pm
You are assuming the slower bow can even get off that one shot.  :idea: 70% likely hood of hitting with a 20% chance of getting to shoot isn't great odds.

Well yes my analysis was clearly oversimplistic but I think it conveyed the message.
Title: Re: Long Bow is too good compared to Rus Bow
Post by: Umbra on March 30, 2013, 12:48:18 am
I don't want to derail the subject, since it's a fairly important one - although I personally believe that the Rus and Long are pretty well balanced now when you take upkeep into account, long is better, yes, it also costs more.

What I wanted to say was that having an archer alt and having enjoyed it for over a generation now and also being a "style over stats" player - I'm a ninja after all - I'm glad that the Yumi is now a viable bow to use on foot rather than just on the horse.

Cost? Seriously? Cost is a non issue for like 99% of the playerbase, thats not even an argument