cRPG
cRPG => The Marketplace => Sell/Trade => Topic started by: Penitent on March 11, 2013, 06:56:33 pm
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Tha King a tha North! Tha King a tha North! Tha King a tha North!
Tha King a tha North!Tha King a tha North! Tha King a tha North!
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Speed:98
Length:102
Thrust:23 pierce
Swing:35 cut
PM me any offers!
I'm mostly looking for 2h swords or a nice pole weapon.
I'll consider anything though!
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update: cleaver now
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mw crossbow
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PMd my good sir
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Let's have an intellectual conversation
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Hello!
I don't get many visitors. What would you like to talk about?
One obvious topic is the Steel Pick I'm selling...it's actually my opinion that it is the best weapon in the game, for various reasons that I could get in to.
I'm open to any topic though!
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Oh. Discussing about steel pick doesn't require much intellectual analysis, but I have no other topic in mind now. So why not :P
As a onehander myself I tend to disagree. Steel pick can be one of the best, but it's rather short. Sometimes, more reach means more active participation in battle. So I prefer swords that have more than 85+ length. Those that are longer than 100+ can be nice too, but I think the length between 90-100 is optimum. Langes messer, niuweidao, grosse messer are quite nice swords on foot. Steel pick is more of a specialist weapon.
Personally I don't understand why people produce lots of steel picks for strategus battles. I'd mostly likely spend my money on the most economic/useful sword. So I can spend my money on bec de corbins, mauls, bar maces, twohanded axes and some hoplite spears instead. Also more long onehanders for cavalry too.
The good thing with steel pick is, you can play like kinngrimm. With a 15/30 build or so. It is probably very fast and is doing very good damage combined with speed bonus.
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Oh, yes, I can see your point. People have different play styles and different weapons may compliment those play styles better than others. I still stand by my claim though.
You are right in stating the steel pick does have one disadvantage, and that is length. I'll discuss this disadvantage more in a bit. However, I think its advantages far outweigh this disadvantage. When I look at a weapon and how good it is, I of course consider its length, speed, and damage. Some weapons also have special characteristics (like shield breaker) but it is usually these three that are most important. The pick does the more damage than any other 1h weapon. It is the king in that department. Also, in terms of speed, it is among the fastest. It also has a certain "x factor" going for it. Because of its size, shape, and speed, it can be hard to see and therefore hard to block. All of these aspects taken together DO make it a specialist weapon...its perfect for those that want to specialize in killing.
It is short, but it is vicious, lethal, and merciless. I like 1h swords too, especially the faster swords (Italian and Nordic War sword). They can be quite effective weapons and the length allows you to attack more often and earlier, depending on your style. The damage though, compared to the steel pick, is lacking. Nothing drops your enemy as fast as a loomed +3 deadly steel pick in terms of 1h weapons.
However, my claim is not that the steel pick is the best 1h weapon...but that it is the best weapon in the game. This is naturally because the best weapon in the game would be a weapon that leaves one hand free for a shield. A shield is a huge advantage, so any weapon that does not allow this has a strike counted against it. Shields block ranged attacks and allow you to face multiple opponents with relative ease. They also help immensely when you are using a shorter weapon. Using a shorter weapon means that your enemy will be able to strike you before you can strike them. Having a sturdy shield effectively negates this advantage. You are able to march up to an enemy with immunity, no matter how many times they feint or spam. In addition, the disadvantage of shortness can be turned in to an advantage if you are fighting in a closed space or when you face-hug you opponent who is not used to fighting so close. The closeness can mean your attacks are partially masked by their player model and harder to block. It can also mean that their longer weapon (a long 2h or pole) is not as effective. So, what I mean is, the one disadvantage of the pick (short length) can in some instances effectively take advantage of your opponents weaknesses.
For strat battles, I agree that the steel pick is not the best except perhaps in sieges. The "shield wall" environment of strat battles does is not the best place for an extra short weapon. There are some weapons that are better than the steel pick in some areas of the game....but when considering which weapon is the best, fastest, most deadly weapon in the greatest variety of situations, I think the steel pick takes the prize!
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Ooo the discussion is about to get heated, because I have counter arguments against your argument; "steel pick is the best weapon" :)
I suppose I tend to agree with you on many aspects. Steel pick is one of the most badass weapons out there. No armor is heavy enough to stop steel pick, and it is a short-fast weapon; making it near to perfect for very close quarters.
The one problem with this best weapon argument is, you seem to be focusing only on one aspect of the game; infantry fights. Basically, you'd prefer an arabian straight sword over a steel pick if you are versus cavalry. Because the short length of the weapon will make you vulnerable to bump+slashes or lance+bumps. Besides, if we think the scenario other way around. It would be a pretty bad cavalry weapon.
Secondly, there are other piercing weapons which are much more longer and much more versatile. I'm talking about spears. Basically ashwood pike has 30 pierce. Although it's damage is lowered when used with a shield, it is still viable considering it has has at last x4 better reach, which might mean more participation in teamfights. And it can stop horses too. I know they are very different type of weapons, but anything you use to make your enemies can be comparable to a point. I'm not saying spears are overall better than steel pick. They both have their uses somehow.
As for the strategus sieges, you are probably right. It's just that I am not a fan of short weapons in sieges. I feel more comfortable better with longer weapons. The extra range is definetely needed when defending/assaulting walls from the outside with ladders. Which makes steel pick not that much of a great weapon in strategus battles in my opinion. It's not lower in usefulness. It's just not really economical. I'd prefer my infantry to take axes, mauls and spears, to destroy enemy shields and ladders.
As for the deadliest weapon, it indeed has the best damage potential. But you are not taking knockdowns into account. Maces and hammers have a knockdown chance, which counts as one more hit damage generally. So it is not the deadliest. Steel pick is rather the valid choice here. You might not get knockdowns with maces in many cases. Steel pick makes it sure you do good damage all the time. It is also faster than maces of course.
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Ah yes, you have valid points as well. I suppose my argument of the steel pick being the best is a bit focused on infantry. I guess the crux of my position is that it is the best all-around weapon because infantry fights are the most common, but you are right in saying that is falls "short" if you are facing an enemy on horseback. The pick might as well be a stick in that case. Although, I'll have you know I have used the pick to good effect while I'm on a horse. You have to get reeeeally close to the enemy to hit them, but it almost guarantees a hit to the head and they always get bumped even if you miss!
That does bring up one other advantage of the steel pick though...its only 1 slot! That means you can take a backup weapon (like a sword, or a polearm) to fend off cav.
Anyways, in the end, I'd still say if I could only use one weapon for the rest of my CRPG career, it would be the steel pick. Enough about me though! Do you have a favorite weapon, or a weapon you'd choose if you could only choose one? Perhaps we can discuss its virtues and vices.
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I'm a man of a spear and shield guy (apart from being a 2handermaster, but I just got bored of it). As I have explained it in my hoplite guide, it can even feel like cheating. An ashwood pike and a shield basically gives you so many adventages. It has good damage, it has good reach, it has piercing damage, it is long weapon and a shield together, you have advantage against every class as long as you are not fighting alone. It has it's many other disadvantages too though. But I like to draw my power from versatility and I am a teamwork kind of guy.
In the last strategus battle, after our horses are all out I tried defending a good archer. I basically protected him from arrows with my shields, and kept the enemy cavalry away. Only when an infantry was coming close, we both retreated a little to our main group. I mean, what can I ask more? It felt like using a chariot. One is driving the mount, the other is shooting. In our case; one is keeping the other safe, the other guy is shooting without being concerned of his safety.
Spear and a shield is also very goddamn useful in massed up infantry fights. You can simply support your teammates. The high range both allows you to keep your distance and participate much more. Even if you just make the enemy scratch a bit, as long as it stops the guy for a second it can result of his death.
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Ah yes...what you describe sounds very fun! I think that might give us a new criteria for what is the "best" weapon. Since this is a game, we should be trying to find out which weapon is "most fun!"
I just read most of your guide, and I have to say hoplite does sound pretty awesome. Your guide is also well written. You state there that English is not your first language, but I must commend you on your excellent writing ability. I have a degree in English and I will gladly admit that you write more eloquently and with better grammar than the average English speaker. :)
I may have to try out something like this, but I'm thinking more of a hybrid build. I always try to go for some kind of hybrid because I get bored with straight builds. Maybe you'll allow me to pick your brain for a moment. :)
In your expert hoplite opinion, what do you think of this cav-hoplite hybrid?
Lv 30
Strength: 18
Agility: 18
Hit points: 55
Skills to attributes: 2
Ironflesh: 0
Power Strike: 6
Shield: 5
Athletics: 6
Riding: 6
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 0
Weapon Master: 6
One Handed: 115
Polearm: 125
This does not include any IF, so I'm not sure if you find that important for a hoplite. Let me know what you think!
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All I can say is, you posted the build I am using as my main at the moment. :)
I'd drop the shield to 4 and weapon master to 4 or 5 to get some ironflesh though. The distribution between pole and one hand is up to you, depending on which one you will use more. The one you posted seems pretty reasonable. You can drop them a tiny bit, since ironflesh could have been more useful than some proficiency.
And thanks for your comment on my writing skills. I try to improve my english as much as I can. The guide is a bit old by the way. I have improved my language skills since then :P
Ok enough of me now. Now it's your turn. Suggest me an interesting playstyle and I will try it with my STF character.
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Hmmm, let me think on this a bit. I've got a crazy weekend coming up, and I'll get back to you. :)
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I have a hard time thinking of a good "interesting" play style, because I usually play boring old 18/18 one-hand shielder - Cav hybrid builds. :)
However, there one STF character that I did that was quite fun. It was a STR based polearm build. I believe it was 27/12 using a Ranseur, Spetum, or Corseque. I'm sure its a very similar playstyle to a hoplite, which you are used to. There is a significant different though...you would be forgoing the use of a shield for increased range, damage, and/or speed. It's kind of like playing a pike-man build, but these weapons do significantly more damage and its quite fun.
Well, it's a suggestion anyways!
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I have a hard time thinking of a good "interesting" play style, because I usually play boring old 18/18 one-hand shielder - Cav hybrid builds. :)
However, there one STF character that I did that was quite fun. It was a STR based polearm build. I believe it was 27/12 using a Ranseur, Spetum, or Corseque. I'm sure its a very similar playstyle to a hoplite, which you are used to. There is a significant different though...you would be forgoing the use of a shield for increased range, damage, and/or speed. It's kind of like playing a pike-man build, but these weapons do significantly more damage and its quite fun.
Well, it's a suggestion anyways!
Oh sorry, I forgot to answer this. This sounds truly fun. I just wanted to find a +3 version of one of those diablo2-like spears to try out, but sadly I couldn't. So I forgot to try it out as well, therefore also forgot giving you a proper answer.
I like str builds, because they are the boss builds for infantry. I tried a swashbuckler nowadays with a build of 27/12 and it was truly awesome. Can't wait to try this out this evening too. I think I just have to try it with a unloomed weapon. I don't think it will matter much though. What type of armor would you recommend for this?
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Hey, yeah don't worry about replying right away. I had a crazy weekend, so stuff just gets busy sometimes. Also, this is still technically a marketplace thread so I may bump it from time to time. :D
A swashbuckling build is interesting! Usually the only time I am "swashbuckling" is when my shield breaks. :) Still, if I was to play a build like that, I would probably take armor that is protective, but not too heavy as to slow you down too much -- since you're using a 1h and need to get a little closer. Maybe something in the heraldic mail range. Although if you are good at blocking you could go a light as an Aketon or something if you wanted a more mobile character. I feel like if you went with really heavy armor with 4 athletics and a 1h weapon...you might not have a good time. Feel free to experiment though!
At the same time, I would take heavier gloves because they won't weight you down terribly. Also a decent helm, maybe something 40-50 armor. For boots, I've heard people say how important they are but I really don't prioritize leg armor. Legs take less damage and get hit less. I try to have 80% of my body total armor on my legs. For example if I have 38 body armor including my gloves, I'll try to have about 30 leg armor. I wouldn't be upset if I had only 25 though.
That is just my overall armor philosophy though...good body armor that's not too encumbering, strong gloves and helm, and ok leg armor.
Hey, do you have much experience with cav? If you can see the topic of this thread change you'll see I just got a +3 Destrier. I'd like to give it a spin (my current character has 5 riding soon to be 6) but I have one problem...I don't have a lot of money! I've only got about 32k in the bank. Do you have any tips on not going poor? hahaha. Maybe I can bring out the horse only when I have a mutli...
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You sell the +3 Destrier on me? :?:
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Hmmm, I'm not sure what you mean! Are you someone that contacted me on the marketplace page?
Are you wanting me to sell it to you?
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Actually the STR swashbuckler was for siege mostly (too bad there are no naval battles). As an infantry I won't even bother going to open field battles with high strength and no shield. Hoplites are the best type of infantry for field battles. They can simply deal with everything. Other infantry types (mostly no shields) are much better for siege. Shielders can be good for both.
The principle used in this 27-12 swashbuckler build is, actually about the uniqueness of onehanded weapons. Even without the shields, one handers can be the best weapon in very tight formations. To hit hard, more str is always better. Since you do not need to have a shield to gain benefit from such situations, extra stats became more useful than the ability of grabbing a shield. Besides, shields slow you down. So the build actually has the same movement speed with the classic 21-15 shielder actually. But hits significantly harder. This is what makes swashbuckler unique and more effective. I used very heavy armor with it, because it is a STR build. These statements might sound contradictive, but they are true I can assure you :D
My philosophy with trying out builds are, comparing apples to tomatoes. If I am going to try a build, I think if it is less useful than a HA. If I think it can't be as worse as HA, I go try the build. After all, I know there are less useful "viable" guys than me there.
I will try your tips about this polearm build. Can't wait to have the time to try it out!
Hmm. About the horses; I'd say destrier has it's place. It's a hybrid horse I'd say. A total hybrid of light and heavy horses. People tend to complain about charge nerfs to light horses, but this nerf looks only bad on paper. Horses are as good as you can expect them to be. Besides, I just played some WFaS nowadays. The horses there has low charge damages as well, and the playerbase never seems to find them "weak" at all.
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for mw crossbow?
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2 lps and 125k?
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since I recently got 34 and with that riding 6 ive been thinking about replacing my Italy for a longer blade 100+
would you be interested in swapping blades just for a little while to try them out?
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The North Remembers
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I've got a Mw nordic sword
I'm more king of that north
:P
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Tha King a tha Nerth!