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cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Ujin on February 27, 2013, 01:19:23 pm

Title: Horse Xbowmen just shot me for half my hp
Post by: Ujin on February 27, 2013, 01:19:23 pm: Locked_KD . Was on my right side when he shot at me, i was going medium speed .

So um....... WHAT ???

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65 body armor, 2 IF , 21 str.
Title: Re: Horse Xbowmen just shot me for half my hp
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on February 27, 2013, 01:46:27 pm: Get a shield noob

Seriously though, the shields on backs blocking arrows, while it seemed as a decent idea at first, is fucking horrible, now we have horsecrossbowmen who just ride away from whatever they're shooting at surviving 4 throwing lances to the back due to shields making them invincible.
Title: Re: Horse Xbowmen just shot me for half my hp
Post by: Ujin on February 27, 2013, 02:10:25 pm: Quote from: Zlisch_The_Butcher on February 27, 2013, 01:46:27 pm
Get a shield noob

Seriously though, the shields on backs blocking arrows, while it seemed as a decent idea at first, is fucking horrible, now we have horsecrossbowmen who just ride away from whatever they're shooting at surviving 4 throwing lances to the back due to shields making them invincible.
This isn't related to my question about the damage he did, but thanks for posting i guess.
Title: Re: Horse Xbowmen just shot me for half my hp
Post by: Latvian on February 27, 2013, 02:13:35 pm: light crossbow has 46 pierce damage+ little damage from bolts. I see nothing impossible.
Title: Re: Horse Xbowmen just shot me for half my hp
Post by: Latvian on February 27, 2013, 02:31:27 pm: i think bigger problem is ridiculous ability of pike/spear to stop horse with poke from almsot 90° angle. Or stoping horse without hit, you know that moment when your horse gets toped by hoplite who started hit 0.0000001 second befor you would have bumped him.
Title: Re: Horse Xbowmen just shot me for half my hp
Post by: Ujin on February 27, 2013, 02:37:28 pm: Quote from: Latvian_Knight on February 27, 2013, 02:13:35 pm
light crossbow has 46 pierce damage+ little damage from bolts. I see nothing impossible.
which is ridiculous cause you can always sheathe that xbow and switch to 1h cav easily
Title: Re: Horse Xbowmen just shot me for half my hp
Post by: Jarlek on February 27, 2013, 02:40:11 pm: I'm assuming this was on EU 1.

Now that mounted ranged get the speed bonus from their own horse, they can do a lot of damage. I was chased by an HA and riding away from him, me riding slightly faster than him, and he killed me in 3 arrows. 52 body armour.
Title: Re: Horse Xbowmen just shot me for half my hp
Post by: Gurnisson on February 27, 2013, 02:41:49 pm: Quote from: Latvian_Knight on February 27, 2013, 02:31:27 pm
i think bigger problem is ridiculous ability of pike/spear to stop horse with poke from almsot 90° angle. Or stoping horse without hit, you know that moment when your horse gets toped by hoplite who started hit 0.0000001 second befor you would have bumped him.

Horses jumping over pikes, shields sucking up the hit when you poke the horse in the face. I can go on... :wink:
Title: Re: Horse Xbowmen just shot me for half my hp
Post by: Paul on February 27, 2013, 03:00:15 pm: Ok, when both shooter and victim where next to each other I suppose there was no speed bonus. Further assuming a body hit with a x1 multiplier. I think masterwork light xbow and steel bolts have a combined damage of (44+8 + 6+2 =) 60p.

So it's 60p versus 65 body armor. That should give a minimum damage of 8, an average damage of 19 and a maximum damage of 32. With your 60(?) hp a high damage roll will take half of the bar. On the other hand if you get lucky it can also be a grazing hit. Blame TW armor randomisation. (assuming cmp didn't change it)

In short, you got unlucky and got a bad armor dice roll.
Title: Re: Horse Xbowmen just shot me for half my hp
Post by: MrShine on February 27, 2013, 04:40:15 pm: ^allow me to interpret:

"snake eyes, bitch!"
Title: Re: Horse Xbowmen just shot me for half my hp
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on February 27, 2013, 04:43:51 pm: Quote from: Ujin on February 27, 2013, 02:10:25 pm
This isn't related to my question about the damage he did, but thanks for posting i guess.
You're welcome.
Title: Re: Horse Xbowmen just shot me for half my hp
Post by: oohillac on February 27, 2013, 06:16:26 pm: Try coming to NA once in a while, then you can complain about mounted crossbowmen.
Title: Re: Horse Xbowmen just shot me for half my hp
Post by: Inglorious on February 27, 2013, 06:38:51 pm: To back up on what Oohil said... There was 6 on the enemy team alone last night. Not including our own 3. More often than not it comes to one of them being the last ones alive because they have shot all the opposing cavalry down and bump shot all the archers and crossbows.

I give props to a few of them though, they are damn good at what they do, much to my dismay :(
Title: Re: Horse Xbowmen just shot me for half my hp
Post by: oprah_winfrey on February 27, 2013, 06:44:09 pm: Quote from: IngloriouslyBad on February 27, 2013, 06:38:51 pm
To back up on what Oohil said... There was 6 on the enemy team alone last night. Not including our own 3. More often than not it comes to ~~one of them~~ Rohypnol being the last ones alive because they have shot all the opposing cavalry down and bump shot all the archers and crossbows.

I give props to a few of them though, they are damn good at what they do, much to my dismay :(
Title: Re: Horse Xbowmen just shot me for half my hp
Post by: Sandersson Jankins on February 27, 2013, 06:49:11 pm: Yeah, I usually just quit or go to siege when more than 4 or so HX get on one team. It's simply not fun. Although the arrow weight change for archers wasn't well-received by many, at least it put a stop to endlessly kiting archers, for the most part. An HX (even worse when it's a dedicated HX with no sidearm, and +3 horse, xbow, and bolts) is more than able to deal rather high amounts of damage without being in much danger of receiving any.

Of course skilled and coordinated ranged would put a stop to this, but most battle-monkeys refuse to focus cavalry at all, much less HX/HA.

HX doesn't really seem to be an issue until the crossbowmen is astride an arabian, god forbid a +3 arabian.

shitsux.
Title: Re: Horse Xbowmen just shot me for half my hp
Post by: oprah_winfrey on February 27, 2013, 06:57:58 pm: Quote from: Sandersson Jankins on February 27, 2013, 06:49:11 pm
Yeah, I usually just quit or go to siege when more than 4 or so HX get on one team. It's simply not fun.

I'm sure you will be pleased to know that ChinaserfXand Y just joined the semenstorm ladder...
Title: Re: Horse Xbowmen just shot me for half my hp
Post by: Rhekimos on February 27, 2013, 07:08:34 pm: Quote from: Sandersson Jankins on February 27, 2013, 06:49:11 pm
Of course skilled and coordinated ranged would put a stop to this, but most battle-monkeys refuse to focus cavalry at all, much less HX/HA.

Speaking from experience, it's very hard to hit a competently dodging HX/HA as an archer.
Title: Re: Horse Xbowmen just shot me for half my hp
Post by: MrShine on February 27, 2013, 07:17:20 pm: The thing is most aren't worth spending a lot of time on, because they either will find a way to kill themselves off, or they won't be accurate/damaging enough to care about.

For the few exceptions to that rule, focused ranged attention will help solve the problem. Too bad there are often so many other juicy targets that occupy archers, which is usually why the HX make it to the end.
Title: Re: Horse Xbowmen just shot me for half my hp
Post by: Necrorave on February 27, 2013, 07:25:41 pm: Quote from: Sandersson Jankins on February 27, 2013, 06:49:11 pm
Yeah, I usually just quit or go to siege when more than 4 or so HX get on one team. It's simply not fun.

I don't mind them in NA-1 as much. Although, once one joins the NA-Community server I quit. It is a bit silly for smaller games.

I was going to blame abortion, but then I laughed.

So pertaining to what the post is about: I have had many situations like this myself. (Being one shot by an archer body shot) Yadda yadda, makes you yell at your cat and kick a puppy. Although, in the end. It's not that big of a deal. Archers are annoying and always will be, although I do not think they are Overpowered at all. (Unless on a heavy mount)
Title: Re: Horse Xbowmen just shot me for half my hp
Post by: Phew on February 27, 2013, 07:39:51 pm: I've taken a +3 Steel Bolt to the face from a +3 Arbalest at point blank range, and lost 20% of my HP. It was raining, and I think the glitchy hitbox registered it as a torso hit also.

Random number generator can be a b!tch, but works both ways. You probably don't come to forums and rage when a Flamberge hits you for 2 dmg.
Title: Re: Horse Xbowmen just shot me for half my hp
Post by: Sandersson Jankins on February 27, 2013, 07:44:27 pm: Quote from: Rhekimos on February 27, 2013, 07:08:34 pm
Speaking from experience, it's very hard to hit a competently dodging HX/HA as an archer.

Oh, you're absolutely correct. However, when you have 3-4 ranged shooting at a single mounted ranged, one of you is bound to take him down.

When I say that ranged should focus them, I do not mean a single ranged player, but all of them.

Mounted cavalry does not seem to be a big issue in EU due to the large proportion of ranged footmen there. In NA we are populated by two-handers and melee cavalry mostly, it seems. Not the best for killing ranged cavalry.
Title: Re: Horse Xbowmen just shot me for half my hp
Post by: Rhekimos on February 27, 2013, 07:56:53 pm: Quote from: Sandersson Jankins on February 27, 2013, 07:44:27 pm
Oh, you're absolutely correct. However, when you have 3-4 ranged shooting at a single mounted ranged, one of you is bound to take him down.

When I say that ranged should focus them, I do not mean a single ranged player, but all of them.

They're still more likely to just chase him away rather than killing him. Unless the HX has no place to run and no room to maneuver. And while they are distracted, they are prime targets for enemy ranged. And HX usually sneaks up on the ranged. Frontal attacks attract a lot of ranged attention, so the wise HX attacks so that as few as possible ranged are even aware of being shot at.

Quote
Mounted cavalry does not seem to be a big issue in EU due to the large proportion of ranged footmen there. In NA we are populated by two-handers and melee cavalry mostly, it seems. Not the best for killing ranged cavalry.

True. But we really don't have dedicated HX. Good HAs can be and are occasionally very disruptive on the EU side as well.
Title: Re: Horse Xbowmen just shot me for half my hp
Post by: oprah_winfrey on February 27, 2013, 08:04:06 pm: Quote from: Necrorave on February 27, 2013, 07:25:41 pm
I don't mind them in NA-1 as much. Although, once one joins the NA-Community server I quit. It is a bit silly for smaller games.

I agree, to a point. If there are like 10 HX on the other side it will get pretty obnoxious (although they usually wear the SS banner).

But on the community server/when NA1 has a low pop (early morning) I will just leave the server. Not because its overpowered, but its just annoying. Even a few lancer cav on a 15 man server is pushing it.
Title: Re: Horse Xbowmen just shot me for half my hp
Post by: Phew on February 27, 2013, 08:17:26 pm: Play more siege folks. All kinds of cav are a rare novelty and not really annoying at all. The only "annoyance" on siege is the maulers, since 2-3 of them can usually render a castle impenetrable. Just bring a shield for the archers (that goes for battle too).

Siege has a bit lower cash/XP than battle, but on the plus side YOU GET TO ACTUALLY PLAY THE GAME, not some metagame of "wait 4 mins for someone to kill the horse x-bow".