cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: owens on February 20, 2013, 11:57:11 am

Title: Shields on back block arrows
Post by: owens on February 20, 2013, 11:57:11 am
This would be a problem for balance if it wasn't for slots which i believe it was removed before so....


This would be a quick alternative to pavise shields
Title: Re: Shields on back block arrows
Post by: Jarold on February 20, 2013, 10:01:28 pm
This would be too OP. Two handers and polearmers running around with board shields on their backs. Not to mention a lot of shielders would give themselves two shields to block arrows from the front and back.
Title: Re: Shields on back block arrows
Post by: Penitent on February 20, 2013, 10:35:45 pm
A shield on the back would slow people down enough to balance this imo.

I think it should be a go.
Title: Re: Shields on back block arrows
Post by: oprah_winfrey on February 20, 2013, 10:44:38 pm
AFAIK, that's how it worked in native but they took it out in crpg.
Title: Re: Shields on back block arrows
Post by: Ptolemy on February 20, 2013, 11:06:22 pm
Two board shields = arrow invulnerability.

Would only even be considerable if hits to your back broke the shield on your back and even then, no.
Title: Re: Shields on back block arrows
Post by: owens on February 21, 2013, 12:48:34 am
carrying an extra 7.5 weight for no advantage combined with extra upkeep and obscured view would deter most.

plus this means that two handers are actually getting shield skill!
Title: Re: Shields on back block arrows
Post by: Vodner on February 21, 2013, 01:51:28 am
A shield on your back already adds 10 + shield resistance to your body armor versus ranged weapons that hit the shield.

e: this is the same mechanic as Native multiplayer.
Title: Re: Shields on back block arrows
Post by: Rumblood on February 21, 2013, 02:00:15 am
A shield on the back would slow people down enough to balance this imo.

I think it should be a go.

It would slow them down so that they come back and lobby for another archer nerf because they would be able to kite them until they break the shield.
Title: Re: Shields on back block arrows
Post by: owens on February 21, 2013, 03:20:36 am
^Um This only makes sense if they are walking backwards in which case the archer would shoot for the head anyway


Look I like archers but it seems ridiculous to get shot in the back by bodkin arrows (through a shield) and take almost full damage (due to pierce).


Board shield currently offer low resistance and don't protect the back very well anyway. Why this was removed from cRPG in the first place when ranged was at its strongest still baffles me.
Title: Re: Shields on back block arrows
Post by: Korgoth on February 21, 2013, 09:17:42 am
AFAIK, that's how it worked in native but they took it out in crpg.

I dont remember shields on backs blocking arrows in native? I havent played Native for ages but I'm pretty sure that it works the same way, with a shield on the back the arrow does less damage but it doesnt full block it.
Title: Re: Shields on back block arrows
Post by: Torost on February 21, 2013, 09:52:32 am
The shieldmechanics is abit wonky for this to be viable.

The arrowmagnet forcefield and damagereduction would have to go away first.
These are silly mechanics anyway, the shield should only cover the area they visually occupy.
Shield should withstand all low and medium dmg blows and all kinds of arrows without breaking.
High dmg crossbowbolts going thru all low end shields without breaking it,but hurting the player,possibly with reduced damage.
The shield should break if hit by a single blow over xx dmg. xx depending on type of shield.
Typically shields would then be broken by highend axes,sledgehammers and heavy throwingweapons.

If properly slowed down for the extra shield I would say yay.. turtles all the way.
Title: Re: Shields on back block arrows
Post by: owens on February 21, 2013, 10:49:07 am
@Korgoth me are referring to native single player mostly


@Torost In native single player the shields on backs have no force field
Title: Re: Shields on back block arrows
Post by: BlueKnight on February 21, 2013, 03:58:49 pm
@Korgoth me are referring to native single player mostly

@Torost In native single player the shields on backs have no force field
True.
Title: Re: Shields on back block arrows
Post by: oprah_winfrey on February 21, 2013, 04:02:47 pm
I dont remember shields on backs blocking arrows in native? I havent played Native for ages but I'm pretty sure that it works the same way, with a shield on the back the arrow does less damage but it doesnt full block it.

Yeah, I meant it has an effect in native. From what I have heard, shields on your back have no effect for crpg. But Vodner says otherwise, so I could be wrong here.
Title: Re: Shields on back block arrows
Post by: Jarold on February 21, 2013, 09:53:57 pm
I remember in native singleplayer it blocks arrows, sometimes. But multiplayer, i'm not sure I've ever had it happen.
Title: Re: Shields on back block arrows
Post by: Vodner on February 21, 2013, 10:11:37 pm
Unless something has changed since May (http://forum.meleegaming.com/realism-discussion/shields-on-back-should-block-arrows-again/msg475629/#msg475629), the bonus should still be in effect.

It's easy enough to test. Go to duel, grab a steel shield and some heavy armor, then put the shield on your back. Have an archer friend fire a couple rounds into the shield. The arrows should either glance, or do almost no damage. If that's not the case, then something has changed.
Title: Re: Shields on back block arrows
Post by: Patoson on February 21, 2013, 10:14:18 pm
This feature was removed from cRPG a very long time ago, and for a good reason (I guess).
Title: Re: Shields on back block arrows
Post by: Soldier_of_God on February 23, 2013, 05:46:24 pm
Two board shields = arrow invulnerability.

Would only even be considerable if hits to your back broke the shield on your back and even then, no.

Actually, this ties into a long time desire to see more tactics in the game.  BACK DAMAGE IS BUFFED 25-45%. hitting kiting archers in the back, running stragglers, people afraid of your lance, a unobservant enemy.... why hasnt this been added? i actually will probably make a thread about this.

more to the point, noone serious is going to carry 2 board shields, and as for people who want to turtle with lesser shields, more power to them. they'll just get decimated once it breaks, as alot of people use axes or other polearms that have bonus to shield anyway.
Title: Re: Shields on back block arrows
Post by: //saxon on February 23, 2013, 09:04:44 pm
its a good idea but it would fuck everything up for archers, i mean you will get polearmers and 2Hers just running to the archer backwards so the archer will not be able to do anything.
Title: Re: Shields on back block arrows
Post by: BlueKnight on February 23, 2013, 11:08:42 pm
its a good idea but it would fuck everything up for archers, i mean you will get polearmers and 2Hers just running to the archer backwards so the archer will not be able to do anything.
If they have a shield, wouldn't they want to gain extra shieldforce by holding it in hands and just charge archers? For some reason I can't see why inf would charge backwards... You can always shoot them in the feet and head cuz shield isn't placed vertically on a back. Also on a back there is no shield force and stuff... Imho it's cewl idea.
Title: Re: Shields on back block arrows
Post by: Silveredge on March 01, 2013, 12:11:08 am
Kind of silly to think of a melee character just turning around every time a ranged character shoots at them.

However, I would be all for this if they removed the massive invisible shield that protects shielders.  Being a good shot, I would love it if shots to the forehead actually counted (please put the higher chance to penetrate shields with crossbows back in).  Honestly I think removing the invisible shieldwall would tip the favor too much towards ranged, balance wise.  So I'm sure the back block won't be approved and the invisible shieldwall that protects horse's chests will remain in the game.

They could make it to where shielders standing next to each other getting the +shield message get levels of the invisible wall back, to balance it out.  Would probably still not be balanced enough for non teamwork situations though(for our audience).

Also, shots that would have been a headshot should do a small amount of damage to the shield.  Because usually anything less than an Arbalest does almost no damage to a good shield.  Think of all the times you've seen a shield with tons of arrows/bolts in it.
Title: Re: Shields on back block arrows
Post by: owens on March 01, 2013, 01:19:17 pm
The fact is shields on backs didnt stop the full damage of arrows as the arrow would penetrate the shield and as it was held on the body would puncture flesh.


But... I would love to see the arrows stay in the shield like in native! Damage is irrelevant its the visual that really matters.
Title: Re: Shields on back block arrows
Post by: Necrorave on March 01, 2013, 02:24:23 pm
I would like to see something like this in Crpg, although it will be exploited to the point of making people quit.  Imagine a turtle on a plated charger.  It would be the slowest/most frustrating game.   Even more so then Horse Archers.
Title: Re: Shields on back block arrows
Post by: Gurnisson on March 01, 2013, 02:36:42 pm
Two board shields = arrow invulnerability.

That is, simply put, not true. As an archer myself, shooting shielders, 90 % of the arrows will come in from the side, not the back, not the front. 2 board shields wouldn't help, it would only make them slower and easier to headshot... :wink:
Title: Re: Shields on back block arrows
Post by: Kafein on March 01, 2013, 03:11:23 pm
Even if it worked, a shield on your back reduces your speed and nimbleness horribly. This would only be a decent investment for people that are already (very) slow or cavalry.
Title: Re: Shields on back block arrows
Post by: Joker86 on March 01, 2013, 05:02:43 pm
I don't know, so please don't beat me, but aren't board shields always 2 slot? So someone with 2 board shields could be difficult to kill, but wouldn't pose a threat either.

I think the idea is worth giving it a go. I don't think many people will take a shield only for protecting their back, anyway.
Title: Re: Shields on back block arrows
Post by: Shadowren on March 01, 2013, 05:09:29 pm
As long as you move like a turtle! Give it a go  :mrgreen:

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Title: Re: Shields on back block arrows
Post by: Necrorave on March 01, 2013, 05:14:29 pm
As long as you move like a turtle! Give it a go  :mrgreen:

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What Crpg will turn into...

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Title: Re: Shields on back block arrows
Post by: Penguin on March 01, 2013, 08:39:33 pm
Kind of silly to think of a melee character just turning around every time a ranged character shoots at them.

However, I would be all for this if they removed the massive invisible shield that protects shielders.  Being a good shot, I would love it if shots to the forehead actually counted (please put the higher chance to penetrate shields with crossbows back in).  Honestly I think removing the invisible shieldwall would tip the favor too much towards ranged, balance wise.  So I'm sure the back block won't be approved and the invisible shieldwall that protects horse's chests will remain in the game.

They could make it to where shielders standing next to each other getting the +shield message get levels of the invisible wall back, to balance it out.  Would probably still not be balanced enough for non teamwork situations though(for our audience).

Also, shots that would have been a headshot should do a small amount of damage to the shield.  Because usually anything less than an Arbalest does almost no damage to a good shield.  Think of all the times you've seen a shield with tons of arrows/bolts in it.

I remember briefly being able to shoot shielders in the foot area, but it appears they have removed that as well. There is nothing more infuriating as an archer/xbowman than to aim for a shielder's exposed head and then see your bolt lodged into nothing, floating 5-10 inches above a shield.
Title: Re: Shields on back block arrows
Post by: Silveredge on March 01, 2013, 08:53:01 pm
I remember briefly being able to shoot shielders in the foot area, but it appears they have removed that as well. There is nothing more infuriating as an archer/xbowman than to aim for a shielder's exposed head and then see your bolt lodged into nothing, floating 5-10 inches above a shield.

Yeah, it forces it to hit the very top of the shield or the very bottom of the shield, so you can see your ranged ammunition of choice sticking out of the very edge of the shield.
Title: Re: Shields on back block arrows
Post by: Necrorave on March 01, 2013, 09:10:12 pm
Yeah, it forces it to hit the very top of the shield or the very bottom of the shield, so you can see your ranged ammunition of choice sticking out of the very edge of the shield.

I understand your pain.  Although, without that "Force field" it would make leveling up shield past a certain level kinda pointless other then for the defense bonus.