cRPG

Strategus => Strategus Issues => Topic started by: Pentecost on February 18, 2013, 12:47:12 am

Title: Roster unhired by the other side
Post by: Pentecost on February 18, 2013, 12:47:12 am
The battle in question is this one (be sure to check the rosters): http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=battlesparticipated#!?page=battledetail&id=2463

Yesterday, I attacked a fief as an independent player. I was not in a faction at the time, nor was I previously a member of any faction. After asking around, I managed to get a full roster of 51 players and saved it before the battle began. Proof:

(click to show/hide)

The defending side, by comparison, had only signed up a handful of players. It seemed like it was going to be a very routine affair. However, around a minute and a half before the battle was about to begin, everyone on my side was suddenly unhired. Due to the fact that the very same thing had occurred just a few days earlier under similar circumstances, (as detailed in this thread: http://forum.meleegaming.com/strategus-issues/new-samarra-castle/), I had anticipated this would happen, which is why I screenshotted my roster ahead of time and had been mashing F5 nonstop with the roster management window open. I started rehiring people as soon as I noticed everyone had been taken off, only for the person on the other end to unhire them all again. This back-and-forth continued until the battle came up.

Unfortunately, despite my best efforts, whoever was tampering with the roster must have had a very high APM count indeed. Only a handful of the 51 people I hired were actually able to make it into the battle. Proof:

(click to show/hide)

While the ones on my side who got in did manage to win in the end, it was not a very satisfying victory for me. I was the target of an exploit that would have seen me lose everything if I had been a little less vigilant than I was, and I was unable to fight in my own first battle. More importantly though, a large number of players who had set aside some of their time to help me out had that time wasted. If at all possible, I would like it if there could be an investigation into the matter that results in the exploit being fixed and the responsible parties brought to justice.

Incidentally, in the process of fact-checking and asking various people about the situation afterwards, I did get some leads on who might have done it. See:

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

I understand that the above should be approached with a measure of skepticism, due to the ongoing feud between one of the accused and the accuser, but there is some evidence that would seem to indicate that there is probable cause for suspicion. A different admin told me that one of the accused players claimed responsibility for using the same exploit in the Samarra Castle battle to unhire the roster of the attacking side, and several other players who are veterans of previous rounds of Strategus and have a general idea of how the exploit might work said that the player who did the deed in this case would need to have been in the faction that was being attacked (GForce Mafia) and then become factionless to be able to unhire my side. This indeed happened. See:

(click to show/hide)

This image was taken immediately after the battle was finished. The player here was a member of the GForce Mafia immediately prior to the battle and factionless immediately afterwards for a few minutes, until he was accepted into the Heavenly Kingdom faction. The leader of the GForce Mafia faction, who is the other player being accused in the logs above, was actually still in his faction after the battle was over. Proof:

(click to show/hide)

In short, if whoever it is that handles Strategus issues decides to investigate the matter, I would recommend first checking whether BADPLAYER or Giuseppe BlackRose had any involvement in altering the rosters for my side. I will issue both of them a formal apology if they were not.
Title: Re: Roster unhired by the other side
Post by: Dach on February 18, 2013, 02:38:28 am
Bump, something need to be fixed here!  :|
Title: Re: Roster unhired by the other side
Post by: Lizard_man on February 18, 2013, 02:49:45 am
That's pretty low, ban the people in question...
Title: Re: Roster unhired by the other side
Post by: BaleOhay on February 18, 2013, 02:50:32 am
Admins this needs some banning. such crap this stuff is allowed to happen without anything being done to those cheating their asses off
Title: Re: Roster unhired by the other side
Post by: Commodore_Axephante on February 18, 2013, 04:04:01 am
Despicable. Please burn down the people behind this.
Title: Re: Roster unhired by the other side
Post by: Smoothrich on February 18, 2013, 12:57:37 pm
+1 for including the end part of that log where I glorify my cRPG justice crusade and people can see a side of the Real Smoothrich, putting fun and fairness over griefs and bias.

Also the whole "Strat is an exploitable piece of shit with no bugfixes or consideration incoming anytime now or ever good luck" thing as well.  Hope something can be done but not optimistic. 
Title: Re: Roster unhired by the other side
Post by: Osiris on February 18, 2013, 08:38:57 pm
should be a perma ban like the greys got. this is worse than what they did
Title: Re: Roster unhired by the other side
Post by: Tomas on February 18, 2013, 09:47:08 pm
So the exploit here is that anybody not in a faction can manage the rosters of other people not in factions?  Just want to make sure i understand correctly
Title: Re: Roster unhired by the other side
Post by: Keshian on February 18, 2013, 09:51:00 pm
Not sure how they do it so its not just anyone not in a faction that can do it, it sounded like their was a trick to it or something.  But its already happened twice in important battles and seems a simple patch should fix it.
Title: Re: Roster unhired by the other side
Post by: Smoothrich on February 18, 2013, 10:15:47 pm
So the exploit here is that anybody not in a faction can manage the rosters of other people not in factions?  Just want to make sure i understand correctly

Anyone who is defending a fief can edit the roster for the other side if they are technically in that faction.  So a defender of a fief can drop out to no faction and end up with attacker access.  I'm not sure if it would be like this if they were both no faction at the start of battles.

Also presumably you can be on defense of a fief, leave your faction, then apply to join the attackers faction (and get auto accepted because of ~~strat) and possibly be able to edit the attacker roster that way as well.
Title: Re: Roster unhired by the other side
Post by: Keshian on February 18, 2013, 10:27:38 pm
Also it seems if someone leaves your faction after the battle is initiated against them by their own faction (who leave the faction to attack), the remaining members of the faction can still manipulate and change the defender's roster and delete all the people he hired, which happened to badplayer from hero party.
Title: Re: Roster unhired by the other side
Post by: Smoothrich on February 18, 2013, 10:36:40 pm
Also it seems if someone leaves your faction after the battle is initiated against them by their own faction (who leave the faction to attack), the remaining members of the faction can still manipulate and change the defender's roster and delete all the people he hired, which happened to badplayer from hero party.

Badplayer had no roster access at all.  The roster was Hero Party defending Samarra Castle.  He left faction and was immediately attacked to stop the traitor, and was never able to hire for himself.  So I hired people for the sake of realism, when I only wanted enough to show up to cap flags so nothing was lost.  Badplayer took Blackzilla's roster he worked on and deleted it, instantly killing an army.  A bit different mechanics.
Title: Re: Roster unhired by the other side
Post by: Digglez on February 19, 2013, 02:20:07 am
if hes who we suspect, just another reason why permaban should mean BANNED FROM MOD FOREVER, not just buy a new copy of game
Title: Re: Roster unhired by the other side
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on February 19, 2013, 07:06:40 am
if hes who we suspect, just another reason why permaban should mean BANNED FROM MOD FOREVER, not just buy a new copy of game
Someone permaban Digglez
Title: Re: Roster unhired by the other side
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on February 19, 2013, 12:04:17 pm
I was hired for this battle and was able to join the attacking team when the match started. However, I was immediately disabled from getting gear or spawning. Someone purposely glitched the rosters at the last second. Whoever did it should be punished. They exploited a bug.
Title: Re: Roster unhired by the other side
Post by: Keshian on February 20, 2013, 03:30:26 pm
I was hired for this battle and was able to join the attacking team when the match started. However, I was immediately disabled from getting gear or spawning. Someone purposely glitched the rosters at the last second. Whoever did it should be punished. They exploited a bug.

The devs and admins too busy doing witch hunt for their "mole" who revealed how badly run this mod is.  Legitimate complaints about abuses are beneath their notice.
Title: Re: Roster unhired by the other side
Post by: Commodore_Axephante on February 20, 2013, 03:35:03 pm
The devs and admins too busy doing witch hunt for their "mole" who revealed how badly run this mod is.  Legitimate complaints about abuses are beneath their notice.

Kesh, I think your grievances are legit, but lets at least allow other strat issue threads to maintain the illusion of being part of a functioning system of dev support, just in case it ends up being true.
Title: Re: Roster unhired by the other side
Post by: Keshian on February 20, 2013, 04:17:40 pm
I wish it were true but not a single admin or developer has made any attempt to investigate this or let us know its being fixed as a bug.  Too busy doing other things I guess.  You will probably be able to grief people's roster this way for the rest of strategus and no attempt to track down who did it.  This has happened in previous strats with other bugs, buts its only getting worse since they got a bunch of money for their new game, nvm that they are basically showing how poorly the new game being developed will be by how they handle this mod.  Most likely it will just be a second-rate game not worth 2 bucks because of all the bugs, going to steer my friends away from wasting money buying it after seeing how this mod was handled.  They really need a decent PR person or at least someone who has an ability to deal with public by brief polite responses that shows the matter is being looked into or not.
Title: Re: Roster unhired by the other side
Post by: BarBeQ on February 20, 2013, 04:24:06 pm
This is pretty terrible though, permaban for everyone who used it would be fair enough.
Title: Re: Roster unhired by the other side
Post by: Smoothrich on February 20, 2013, 04:44:59 pm
This is pretty terrible though, permaban for everyone who used it would be fair enough.

I tried to do that, and was deadminned for abuse.  Then got admin back, and went back to banning people for massive exploits and abuse and got deadminned again and will probably stay that way.  There you go, an admin who cared.  Look at the reaction.  So some of you people should laugh at the irony.
Title: Re: Roster unhired by the other side
Post by: Keshian on February 20, 2013, 04:58:05 pm
I tried to do that, and was deadminned for abuse.  Then got admin back, and went back to banning people for massive exploits and abuse and got deadminned again and will probably stay that way.  There you go, an admin who cared.  Look at the reaction.  So some of you people should laugh at the irony.

What a marytr. lol
Title: Re: Roster unhired by the other side
Post by: Molly on February 20, 2013, 05:37:54 pm
Isn't this kind of bug the worst, next to duping or something. Whoever did this needs the well-deserved permaban...

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Roster unhired by the other side
Post by: Smoothrich on February 20, 2013, 06:18:43 pm
Isn't this kind of bug the worst, next to duping or something. Whoever did this needs the well-deserved permaban...

(click to show/hide)

Its basically instantly killing an army of whatever size you were attacked by.  The troops vanish.  I think its pretty bad yeah.  I call it "roster drophacking."  It seems like its been around forever too.
Title: Re: Roster unhired by the other side
Post by: Keshian on February 20, 2013, 06:19:50 pm
Its basically instantly killing an army of whatever size you were attacked by.  The troops vanish.  I think its pretty bad yeah.  I call it "roster drophacking."  It seems like its been around forever too.

Says the guy whose clan did the same to badplayer...
Title: Re: Roster unhired by the other side
Post by: Lt_Anders on February 20, 2013, 06:21:33 pm
Says the guy whose clan did the same to badplayer...

And badplayer was in same faction so.....
Title: Re: Roster unhired by the other side
Post by: Keshian on February 20, 2013, 06:36:23 pm
And badplayer was in same faction so.....

Its suddenly legitimate to ruin his roster 10 seconds before the battle starts?  he had left faction but the battle was intitiated before the leaving faction kicked in, so they had temporary access to another player in another faction's roster until after the battle was completed.  Just because it was easier to abuse his roster shouldn't make it a legitimate action that they messed up his roster just before the battle started.
Title: Re: Roster unhired by the other side
Post by: oprah_winfrey on February 20, 2013, 06:40:41 pm
Its suddenly legitimate to ruin his roster 10 seconds before the battle starts?  he had left faction but the battle was intitiated before the leaving faction kicked in, so they had temporary access to another player in another faction's roster until after the battle was completed.  Just because it was easier to abuse his roster shouldn't make it a legitimate action that they messed up his roster just before the battle started.

As far as I'm aware, badplayer didn't have any access to his roster. To hire or unhire anyone.
Title: Re: Roster unhired by the other side
Post by: Smoothrich on February 20, 2013, 06:45:37 pm
As far as I'm aware, badplayer didn't have any access to his roster. To hire or unhire anyone.

Yeah, only Hero Party had access to the roster, we could've hired or unhired whoever we wanted, which is why just Kesh and some HP were put on the roster.  We wanted the castle back with minimal casualties by capping the flags so no gear was lost and we could move on.  The tactic you were bragging about in advance to various people in Teamspeak about dropping Blackzillas roster ended up killing his entire army and was accessing another player's roster to delete it.  Not quite the same thing I'd say, since the castle's roster would've been empty if we didn't hire anyone.
Title: Re: Roster unhired by the other side
Post by: Keshian on February 20, 2013, 06:51:01 pm
Yeah, only Hero Party had access to the roster, we could've hired or unhired whoever we wanted, which is why just Kesh and some HP were put on the roster.  We wanted the castle back with minimal casualties by capping the flags so no gear was lost and we could move on.  The tactic you were bragging about in advance to various people in Teamspeak about dropping Blackzillas roster ended up killing his entire army and was accessing another player's roster to delete it.  Not quite the same thing I'd say, since the castle's roster would've been empty if we didn't hire anyone.

So he had no access to his own roster and you did... hmmm and blackzilla had no access to his own roster but someone else did.  So you thought it fair to make sure his roster was completely empty except for 2 instead of letting the autohire kick in when you had access to a roster he couldn't access, just like someone else decided to delete all blackzilla's roster after badplayer's roster was deleted  - seems pretty similar abuse, just the mechanics were different.  You had a position of power over someone else's roster and abused it to your advantage.  Good work hero party.
Title: Re: Roster unhired by the other side
Post by: GiuseppeBlackRose on February 20, 2013, 06:53:54 pm
I Have nothing to do with this this also happened to me Thanks
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Roster unhired by the other side
Post by: oprah_winfrey on February 20, 2013, 06:58:29 pm
So he had no access to his own roster and you did... hmmm and blackzilla had no access to his own roster but someone else did.  So you thought it fair to make sure his roster was completely empty except for 2 instead of letting the autohire kick in when you had access to a roster he couldn't access, just like someone else decided to delete all blackzilla's roster after badplayer's roster was deleted  - seems pretty similar abuse, just the mechanics were different.  You had a position of power over someone else's roster and abused it to your advantage.  Good work hero party.

It was a hero party roster. Theoretically Blackzilla had access to his roster, he was just afk when the battle happened.
Title: Re: Roster unhired by the other side
Post by: Smoothrich on February 20, 2013, 07:00:10 pm
It was a hero party roster. Theoretically Blackzilla had access to his roster, he was just afk when the battle happened.

No, he was hiring people in his iphone the entire time.  I was in contact with Blackzilla.  He hired up to the battle and saw someone deleted his roster and replaced his team with Badplayer at the last second.  We were worried about our own roster being drophacked but couldn't protect Blackzilla's the same way so he got owned by the exploit we expected to happen, since Kesh was bragging about going to delete his roster in advance lol.
Title: Re: Roster unhired by the other side
Post by: Keshian on February 20, 2013, 07:08:42 pm
since Kesh was bragging about going to delete his roster in advance lol.

Wow, make more complete bullshit up.  I organized a bunch of people to merc for that fight because badplayer asked to use our ts, recruited all day long to fight you guys and they all got shafted by you hero party abusing his roster.  Make some more shit up like you always do.
Title: Re: Roster unhired by the other side
Post by: GiuseppeBlackRose on February 20, 2013, 07:13:53 pm
Wow, make more complete bullshit up.  I organized a bunch of people to merc for that fight because badplayer asked to use our ts, recruited all day long to fight you guys and they all got shafted by you hero party abusing his roster.  Make some more shit up like you always do.
Id appreciate if u stopped spamming the thread so we can get this over with ASap.

Make your own thread Dudeler! :wink:
Title: Re: Roster unhired by the other side
Post by: MURDERTRON on February 21, 2013, 12:10:36 pm
I'm a little concerned about what this thread shows us about the community here.  First of all, if there is a bug so massive in consequences and yet so easy to exploit, why is an admin publicly telling everyone exactly how to do it and under what conditions it happens?  You have just put a gun into the hand of every child and are hoping that not a single one of them pulls the trigger.  A bug like this should be confidentially disclosed to admins or developers.  Developers should make an announcement about it, briefly explain the symptoms of the bug but not how to recreate it, say they are working on a fix but also give a word of warning about anyone who wishes to exploit further before it is fixed.

Also, as far as placing blame goes, I'd have to imagine there is a relatively easy way to track the IP of whoever performed what action.  Each clan ladder has a journal of everything that's done, there's has got to be a similar thing here and if there isn't it needs to be implemented.

In the future, I would wish to see a better system put in place, possibly one with rewards for bug finding.  If there was a proper reward for disclosing bugs to developers, the players who knew about this bug for quite a while may have spoken up and got a loom point or something, instead of keeping it in their back pocket and using it to screw someone else over when the opportunity arose.
Title: Re: Roster unhired by the other side
Post by: BaleOhay on February 21, 2013, 01:18:47 pm
my prob is they are wasting time banning people for made up reasons and ignoring this actual cheat
Title: Re: Roster unhired by the other side
Post by: oprah_winfrey on February 21, 2013, 03:45:37 pm
@Murder I think we all know that smooth isn't an admin. But if everyone knows how it happens it is super easy to avoid, since all you have to do is create a faction.

From what I hear, the devs aren't easy to get a hold of right now. Outside of the kesh/vick bannings, I don't think there has been much interaction. But I am sure you know this, since your forum account still isn't linked to your crpg account.
Title: Re: Roster unhired by the other side
Post by: Keshian on February 21, 2013, 04:03:29 pm
But I am sure you know this, since your forum account still isn't linked to your crpg account.

What kind of conspiracy are you and smoothrich trying to come up with now egan, sigh?
Title: Re: Roster unhired by the other side
Post by: oprah_winfrey on February 21, 2013, 04:13:48 pm
What kind of conspiracy are you and smoothrich trying to come up with now egan, sigh?

No conspiracy here. Look at his account, then look at yours, or mine, or whoever's you want. He doesn't have the red banner that says crpg player under his infamy, for whatever reason it bugged out when he made his account.
Title: Re: Roster unhired by the other side
Post by: MURDERTRON on February 21, 2013, 09:17:38 pm
No conspiracy here. Look at his account, then look at yours, or mine, or whoever's you want. He doesn't have the red banner that says crpg player under his infamy, for whatever reason it bugged out when he made his account.

Kesh, it is a real issue.  I don't bring it up a lot since it doesn't effect much, it's almost more of a joke to me now.  Tons of drama, questionable admin behavior, possible strategus exploits, etc. going on, and then it's like me asking "how bout them Patriots?"

However, Kesh, no one wants you unbanned more than me, but none of these posts since CMP responded to you is helping your cause.  Talk to cmp, wait until Meow gets back, go play other games.  Please don't continue making these inflammatory posts.
Title: Re: Roster unhired by the other side
Post by: oprah_winfrey on February 21, 2013, 09:49:14 pm
Kesh, it is a real issue.  I don't bring it up a lot since it doesn't effect much, it's almost more of a joke to me now.  Tons of drama, questionable admin behavior, possible strategus exploits, etc. going on, and then it's like me asking "how bout them Patriots?"

You should consider yourself in an elite class. The only other account that I know of that doesn't have the badge is chadz.
Title: Re: Roster unhired by the other side
Post by: MURDERTRON on February 21, 2013, 10:34:42 pm
You should consider yourself in an elite class. The only other account that I know of that doesn't have the badge is chadz.

Well, if I remember correctly, it's incredibly easy to recreate.