cRPG
cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Commodore_Axephante on January 24, 2013, 05:49:17 am
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Hey guys,
When I get the chance I intend to do some experimenting myself, but I just wanted to check with the community to see if anyone has any input before I put in the effort.
Here's the question:
What's the MINIMUM investment you could see going into throwing, for a hybrid? I'm talking about holding a single stack of 1PT throwing axes (edit: smallest axe is 2 points, I know) with just enough WPF to pick them up again, that is all.
The idea here is to be able to throw them at masses of defenders, shield-walls, charging horses, etc, not really with the intent of killing anything outright but rather contributing in a small way to team tactics as I close with my main tool - my polearm. Imagine me more a part of the volley than a head-hunter.
What do you think? Complete waste of time?
Indulge me anyway - what do I need? If every 1PT takes away 13 prof, than do I only need 13 (edit: 26) prof to pull this off? (Edit: I roll unarmored, if that isn't clear, so no WPF penalty there.)
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Hey guys,
When I get the chance I intend to do some experimenting myself, but I just wanted to check with the community to see if anyone has any input before I put in the effort.
Here's the question:
What's the MINIMUM investment you could see going into throwing, for a hybrid? I'm talking about holding a single stack of 1PT throwing axes with just enough WPF to pick them up again, that is all.
The idea here is to be able to throw them at masses of defenders, shield-walls, charging horses, etc, not really with the intent of killing anything outright but rather contributing in a small way to team tactics as I close with my main tool - my polearm. Imagine me more a part of the volley than a head-hunter.
What do you think? Complete waste of time?
Indulge me anyway - what do I need? If every 1PT takes away 13 prof, than do I only need 13 prof to pull this off?
Nice idea, I think the easiest way to experience this is a STF build and use 1PT throwing weapons although I would go for 2PT to use either War Darts or Franciscas.
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I have tried a stf character with 2 PT and some of those francescas.
Ive put in about 110 wpf i think and besides that i had a 2h. Damage is too low so its a real waste.
I was thinking to use it as a weapon against ranged when they start running away. The usual ranged armor is around 30 so i thought the 35 cut damage should have been enough but it was useless.
Not viable imo
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I have tried a stf character with 2 PT and some of those francescas.
Ive put in about 110 wpf i think and besides that i had a 2h. Damage is too low so its a real waste.
I was thinking to use it as a weapon against ranged when they start running away. The usual ranged armor is around 30 so i thought the 35 cut damage should have been enough but it was useless.
Not viable imo
Not viable for getting your own kills maybe, but what about the team element? Huck a few of them at the shield wall, with the axe bonus against shields, and you just might help a buddy break through one of those things in a timely fashion even if you don't do it yourself, no? Or again, if you hit a running archer, at the very least, you'll make it less work for someone else to cut them down later if you can't do it yourself.
Point taken though. So far you're the first to express any experience in this sort of idea. Thanks for the input.
Nice idea, I think the easiest way to experience this is a STF build and use 1PT throwing weapons although I would go for 2PT to use either War Darts or Franciscas.
... noob Q - what's an STF build? STR is strength, obviously, but STF?
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STF = Skip the Fun. The option that allows you to make a lvl 30 character and play around with him, not gaining xp with it. You can respec it at any time. To make one, make an alt, then click where it says Regular next to type, and select make a STF (or something along those lines)
Also bear in mind that your wpf is reduced by the weight of your armor, though I am not sure of the values, but you will need more than 13 wpf to compensate
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STF = Skip the Fun. The option that allows you to make a lvl 30 character and play around with him, not gaining xp with it. You can respec it at any time. To make one, make an alt, then click where it says Regular next to type, and select make a STF (or something along those lines)
Also bear in mind that your wpf is reduced by the weight of your armor, though I am not sure of the values, but you will need more than 13 wpf to compensate
The Naked Fanatic wears no armor! :wink:
And, right, Skip the fun. I know about those. Thanks for jogging my memory.
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lol, should look at people's profiles before answering.
I am testing a (naked) 2 PT STF with 40 wpf, and the damage is not good at all, which will not make it hurt shields much anyway.
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Dude my alt has 4PT and about 65wpf or so and I wear mail surcoat (purple one cause it brings out my eyes) and I have no problem tossing and picking up. try that.
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Dude my alt has 4PT and about 65wpf or so and I wear mail surcoat (purple one cause it brings out my eyes) and I have no problem tossing and picking up. try that.
He doesnt want to have a thrower, he wants a minimal throwing ability. He was talking about 1PT axes, which do not exist - at least 2PT for them. I think this is more of a fun/flavour build and not min/maxing. Its definitely gonna be more fun the way he plays it. Cuz min/maxing is actually pretty boring, although everybody does it, including me.
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He doesnt want to have a thrower, he wants a minimal throwing ability. He was talking about 1PT axes, which do not exist - at least 2PT for them. I think this is more of a fun/flavour build and not min/maxing. Its definitely gonna be more fun the way he plays it. Cuz min/maxing is actually pretty boring, although everybody does it, including me.
Right right, Franciscas are 2 points, my bad.
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as a pro master tribrid thrower
the minimal is 3 pt and about 50wpf
not a big investment IMO
also, I advice using dart as pierce is better for low pt or throwing hammer for stylish
(my real advice is rock because rocks op and all but maybe you are not ready for that :P)
2pt is useless
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You get what you pay for.
Throwing daggers, franciscas and war darts are OK weps but you won't be doing much killing with 1 or 2 PT, you won't be hurting anyone with armour on, maybe unloomed, low end mail that's about it. They do have a use, but it's basically limited to hurting unarmoured people, and stopping kiting (both archers and s-key heroes will dislike being thrown at and re-engage). They'll also sting rouncies and coursers but still expect 4-6 hits to bring one down.
Going up to 3 PT is a bit better cuz Javs & axes will sting medium armor people & horses but you're still dealing with low calibre harassment weapons and you won't be getting many kills.
At 4 PT your axes hit harder, especially good for dropping charging horses, at 5 PT you get jarids which at 40 pierce start to hurt guys with 55-65 armor.
Throwing overall is fairly linear progression, in terms of gaining killing power, you truly do get what you pay for. Each individual damage upgrade is relatively small but the cumulative effect of going from unloomed daggers to +3 jarids is the difference between being able to harass archers in leather and taking off 1/2 HP of a 2h hero with 65 armor. There's no real shortcuts or underappreciated super weapons in between like there are in a lot of other weapon catagories.
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Alright check out this pseudo-hyrid, then. A new iteration of my ongoing NAKED BUILD! Thoughts? Again, clearly the focus here is not on throwing - throwing is just a minor tool for the various uses that Turboflex mentioned.
Level: 33
Strength: 30
Agility: 12
Skill to attr: 8
Power Strike: 10
Athletics: 4
Power Throw: 8
Weapon Master: 4
Polearm: 135
Throwing: 55
using cRPG NewGen calc (http://alpha-lider19.ru/MB)
EDIT: Wait, crap, I forgot about the -13 wpf per PT thing... so 56 throwing should allow for 6 PT with pick-up, right? If so, I'll take off 2 PT and put in riding for some Sumpter action, for battlefield mobility (not combat).
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6 * 13 = 78
You might have 6 PT and be able to spawn with spears but at 55 WPF you'd only be throwing them at 4 PT and couldn't pick them up.
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Pfffft, math! :mrgreen:
Ok, so here's another look:
NAKED FANATIC mini-throw]Level: 33
Strength: 30
Agility: 12
Skill to attr: 8
Power Strike: 10
Athletics: 4
Riding: 2
Power Throw: 4
Weapon Master: 4
135 Polearms
55 Throwing
4 PT gives -52 throwing WPF, so with 55 I should just squeeze by, yeah?
EDIT: this actually leaves me with 2 extra skillpoints... sheesh... maybe 4 riding, just for the hell of it. I don't know.
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4 riding will be fun, if you ever go battle you could steal horsy and have fun :D
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That build looks good to me. 4 Power throw is really nice. Mess around on the damage calculator; 4 PT and loomed Heavy Throwing axes can kill many people with 2-3 axes, whereas 2 PT with franciscas or war darts won't be killing anyone but peasants.
I say if you can't get up to crossbow damage, don't bother with throwing, just grab an xbow. 4 PT is where you start to match crossbow damage, with a higher rate of fire (less ammo and range though).
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Unfortunately I'm really wedded to 3-slot polearms, so crossbow is out, but thanks for the tip.
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I bring 1 stack of heavy throwing axes all the time, and I save the last one to use in melee mode if I need to break a shield.
Unrelated, but I always thought a hoplite with 7 PT would be really fun. A shield and 3 throwing lances, use one in melee mode (throwing lance has a very good melee mode). Put the shield on your back when you want to sideswing. Pretty well-suited for a lot of situations.
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2 riding is useless, thats for sure
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I say if you can't get up to crossbow damage, don't bother with throwing, just grab an xbow. 4 PT is where you start to match crossbow damage, with a higher rate of fire (less ammo and range though).
There's a bit more to it than just raw damage.
You can throw 3-6 weapons in the time an xbow can shoot once, and on the move too.
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There's a bit more to it than just raw damage.
You can throw 3-6 weapons in the time an xbow can shoot once, and on the move too.
Noted, but if you have to unload your entire stack of war darts or whatever to equal the damage of one crossbolt bolt, you'd be better off with the crossbow (even if you didn't have a slot for the bolts, since you get 1 bolt with the xbow).
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Alright, here's the final iteration. I'm dropping riding because I don't think my polearm of choice will be suited to it, and raising the intended level to 34 (big grind I know) so I don't have any left over stats. Some day, this will be me!:
Level: 34
Strength: 33
Agility: 12
Skill to attr: 12
Power Strike: 11
Athletics: 4
Power Throw: 4
Weapon Master: 4
Polearm: 136
Throwing: 57
using cRPG NewGen calc (http://alpha-lider19.ru/MB)
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You dont need much wpf for throwing. I would also recomend War Darts over franciscas. Good for hunting archers.
Nice build!