cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: BattalGazi on January 12, 2013, 02:29:39 pm

Title: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: BattalGazi on January 12, 2013, 02:29:39 pm
Hi all !

This might be a already late topic to discuss but I personally find it a bit illogical to see that a stack of 20 tatar arrows weigh 8 kgs. I know that this game is highly under the influence of 2h/pole and 1h infantry, thus trying to avoid archery has been a top priority for this big part of the community, however doubling the weight of arrows should not be a way of balancing.

I would rather suggest reducing the amount of arrows in a stack rather than increasing their weight because of several reasons;

- I am practicing archery myself irl and each of standard war arrows does not exceed 50 grams ( assume you have steel complex and heavy war heads, this can go up to 100 grams max. no more )

- In game MW arrows are 10 kg, MW Barbed arrows are 9 kg, MW tatar arrows are 8 kg and MW bodkins are 7kg for each stack. Even if you go extreme and assume that quivers make the half of this weight ( which is illogical also because war quivers are generally made out of woolen cloth, or leather with some decorations during medieval times. Considering their sizes, quivers are not expected to exceed 3 kgs as they lack heavy metals or plates ), each arrow will weigh: MW arrow (185 g: 5 kg quiver), MW barbed ( 204 g: 4.5 kg quiver), MW tatar ( 200g: 4kg quiver) and MW bodkin (205 g: 3.5 kg quiver). If you reduce the quiver weight to normal and expected values, the arrow weights turn out to be more and more unrealistic. But even these results are unreal and not balanced.

- Many archers reported ghost arrow effect after the doubling the weights. Ghost arrow effect is when your arrow goes through the enemy object body without being calculated as a hit.

- Doubling the weights changed the trajectory of the arrows as the strength of the bows remained the same. This made the archer to aim much higher than the target for long distance shots, which made it much much harder for the archer to register a hit. Because the reticule should be put way above the target, the vertical distance between the target and the reticule is too much for a quick visual calculation.

What I will suggest is to reduce the amount of arrows in a stack instead of making their weights way more than of reasonable and realistic values. Having a less amount of arrows will make the archer to prioritize targets instead of raining his stack upon the enemy. So that both our ranged community and infantry community will be happy.
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: Leshma on January 12, 2013, 02:31:54 pm
You want to be able to kite again?

Denied.
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: Haboe on January 12, 2013, 02:36:38 pm
I prefer archers with good aim. They shoot other archers.
Now its just seems like everyone randomly shoots into the melee-croud, since hunting other archers got 2 hard with this weight nerf.
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: Prpavi on January 12, 2013, 02:45:57 pm
id put it 20 kilos.

Lets see how you fuckers run marathons with that.
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: Smoothrich on January 12, 2013, 02:48:30 pm
move to realism with the katana threads please
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on January 12, 2013, 03:17:08 pm
id put it 20 kilos.

Lets see how you fuckers run marathons with that.

Why the offensive language when somebody is posting a suggestion. I hope something bad happens to you
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: no_rules_just_play on January 12, 2013, 03:19:46 pm
it was a joke... :)

btw i totally agree with this, i have no idea what will happen, but lets try it
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: Prpavi on January 12, 2013, 03:27:59 pm
Why the offensive language when somebody is posting a suggestion. I hope something bad happens to you

i think im just gonna ignore you from now on...   yes that is exactly what im gonna do, have fun talking to yourself, but you are used to it by now i bet.
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: cmp on January 12, 2013, 03:50:41 pm
- Many archers reported ghost arrow effect after the doubling the weights. Ghost arrow effect is when your arrow goes through the enemy object body without being calculated as a hit.

- Doubling the weights changed the trajectory of the arrows as the strength of the bows remained the same. This made the archer to aim much higher than the target for long distance shots, which made it much much harder for the archer to register a hit. Because the reticule should be put way above the target, the vertical distance between the target and the reticule is too much for a quick visual calculation.

Wat.
Weight has no effect whatsoever on trajectory, speed, hits and all that stuff. It only affects your running speed.
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: Blackbow on January 12, 2013, 04:06:47 pm
Wat.
Weight has no effect whatsoever on trajectory, speed, hits and all that stuff. It only affects your running speed.

read my threads plz !!
i'm not dev but i'm pretty sure (98,9%) thant ghost arrows effect is caused by nerfing missile speed nerf after nerf ...
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: buba on January 12, 2013, 04:13:23 pm
Might have more to do with trajectory, speed, and not weight.

still the weight thing is silly.

But whatever.
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: Swaggart on January 12, 2013, 04:55:03 pm
What I will suggest is to reduce the amount of arrows in a stack instead of making their weights way more than reasonable and realistic values. Having a less amount of arrows will make the archer to prioritize targets instead of raining his stack upon the enemy. So that both our ranged community and infantry community will be happy.

This would screw 2 slot bow users a lot and 1 slot bow users might completely abandon bringing a melee weapon and instead opt for 3 stacks of arrows.
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: BattalGazi on January 12, 2013, 05:43:12 pm
To me, having a stack of 40 arrows sounds less realistic than having these arrows weigh 16 kilos ! Their weight is way too far from being realistic. I guess reducing the arrow count will change the balance more effectively. An archer with less arrows will need to be more careful in choosing his targets, he will need to stick with the team instead of dwelling on top of the hills/roofs.
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on January 12, 2013, 05:44:35 pm
What I will suggest is to reduce the amount of arrows in a stack instead of making their weights way more than reasonable and realistic values. Having a less amount of arrows will make the archer to prioritize targets instead of raining his stack upon the enemy. So that both our ranged community and infantry community will be happy.
This shows you got no idea what the infantry community wants, the infantry community wants my old friendchers to stop kiting, that's pretty much it.
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: Rumblood on January 12, 2013, 06:03:21 pm
This shows you got no idea what the infantry community wants, the infantry community wants my old friendchers to stop kiting, that's pretty much it.

No, you've got no idea what they want. The infantry community wants to stop getting hit by any ranged at all, period. That's pretty much it.
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: Ubereem on January 12, 2013, 08:01:45 pm
I swear none of these are problems in siege servers. Except maybe the ghost arrow thing which is real.
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: BattalGazi on January 14, 2013, 01:25:52 pm
Bump for attention
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: Panos on January 14, 2013, 01:30:18 pm
Why the offensive language when somebody is posting a suggestion. I hope something bad happens to you

how old are you?? Ten??
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on January 14, 2013, 01:37:32 pm
how old are you?? Ten??

Why are you asking? Are you somehow saying that I am immature? I mean... you? Really?

Edit: For me its just annoying that whenever a ranged topic is coming up people start trolling it but expect everybody to care when their own class is subject to change. So yeah, why not also write stupid bullshit, you should know best.
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: Panos on January 14, 2013, 01:39:55 pm
Why are you asking? Are you somehow saying that I am immature? I mean... you? Really?

I maybe what I am,but I never wished for someone to get hurt..

It`s common sense,something that you probably lack.
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on January 14, 2013, 01:43:46 pm
I maybe what I am,but I never wished for someone to get hurt..

It`s common sense,something that you probably lack.

Oh that you mean, well I was a bit afraid that people might take that for a joke. Actually I was serious, but I wish that to a lot of people. So far it seems it never worked so dont be afraid.
I do have common sense, but sometimes I choose to not use it, I learned that in an online community. I think its called crpg or something like that
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: Bronto on January 14, 2013, 01:44:40 pm
Back on topic:

If the weight bothers you, ride HA prolong all rounds and see how much everyone loves you then! That's what I'm going to do, once I get my invincible horse fully loomed in the next day or so. You're a GK you should be on a horse already right? Khans/mongols were exclusively horse warriors, they had no infantry. They lanced, used a sword, and shot arrows from horseback their entire lives, so RP harder scrub.
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: Piok on January 14, 2013, 01:47:17 pm
let it be 0 weight but only one quiver per my old friendcher :wink:
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: BattalGazi on January 14, 2013, 01:59:20 pm
Back on topic:

If the weight bothers you, ride HA prolong all rounds and see how much everyone loves you then! That's what I'm going to do, once I get my invincible horse fully loomed in the next day or so. You're a GK you should be on a horse already right? Khans/mongols were exclusively horse warriors, they had no infantry. They lanced, used a sword, and shot arrows from horseback their entire lives, so RP harder scrub.

I can assure you that I am being loved too much already as a GK HA.  :D What bothers me is that just for the sake of making the infantry happier and more secure, illogical changes are made on other classes such as ranged and cavalry. I mean, 20 stack of arrows weighing 8 kgs !?! How can a heavy infantry supposed to catch a light armored archer? One of them carries metal plates, heavy weapons, armor and heavy equipment, the other is equipped with a wooden bow and wooden arrows, light armor and most probably a swift sword. But hey, who cares logic right because if infantry wishes for one thing, it needs to be done regardless of the method.

Just revert this nonsense please and change the arrow count in the stack if you want to affect ranged units effect in the gameplay.
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: Bronto on January 14, 2013, 02:09:28 pm
I can assure you that I am being loved too much already as a GK HA.  :D What bothers me is that just for the sake of making the infantry happier and more secure, illogical changes are made on other classes such as ranged and cavalry. I mean, 20 stack of arrows weighing 8 kgs !?! How can a heavy infantry supposed to catch a light armored archer? One of them carries metal plates, heavy weapons, armor and heavy equipment, the other is equipped with a wooden bow and wooden arrows, light armor and most probably a swift sword. But hey, who cares logic right because if infantry wishes for one thing, it needs to be done regardless of the method.

Just revert this nonsense please and change the arrow count in the stack if you want to affect ranged units effect in the gameplay.

It's nice to dream sir but it's not going to happen. Like Rumblood said earlier:

No, you've got no idea what they want. The infantry community wants to stop getting hit by any ranged at all, period. That's pretty much it.
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on January 14, 2013, 02:17:34 pm
No, you've got no idea what they want. The infantry community wants to stop getting hit by any ranged at all, period. That's pretty much it.

I will keep trying out builds that allow me to stay out of melee if possible and shoot cav&infantry. In fact I would like to stop shooting at enemy ranged and just focus melees but I think they will still shoot me.

Ranged should unite and stop shooting each other for 1 week
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: Vibe on January 14, 2013, 02:40:30 pm
What I will suggest is to reduce the amount of arrows in a stack instead of making their weights way more than reasonable and realistic values.

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Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on January 14, 2013, 02:45:09 pm
I have no idea why it started happening, and I only notice it on my horse, but almost once a night an arrow will hit the horse, then disappear without making any sounds and my horse takes no damage.

Think that just started within the last month or so.
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: Rumblood on January 14, 2013, 07:47:37 pm
I have no idea why it started happening, and I only notice it on my horse, but almost once a night an arrow will hit the horse, then disappear without making any sounds and my horse takes no damage.

Think that just started within the last month or so.

I've seen the same thing with throwing. I toss, the spear sticks in the horses flank, then dissappears and I find it laying on the ground in the same trajectory it was thrown.

Here's my guess:

Your client shows it hitting the horse. Due to some type of lag, the server then responds back to your client saying "No, you were wrong on where the horse actually was at that time, in reality you missed." and then your client shows the missile no longer in the horse and where it should have landed instead. The faster the horse is running (moving through positioning more quickly), and the higher your ping (perhaps relative to the client of the horseman), the more likely you will see this happen. My under-informed guess.
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on January 14, 2013, 07:51:39 pm
This
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weighs more than

this.
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A big purse with a bundle of sticks inside (no wordfilter, honest) weighs more than chainmail. What.
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: Smoothrich on January 14, 2013, 08:38:10 pm
Its a balance measure to nerf kiting.  Or would archers prefer to have their Athletics cut in half again?
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on January 14, 2013, 08:46:48 pm
What about cutting IF to half because its too hard for archers to kill tincans?

What kinda logic is that, srsly. This is how people who specialize in something are rewarded
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: oprah_winfrey on January 14, 2013, 09:00:25 pm
What about cutting IF to half because its too hard for archers to kill tincans?

What kinda logic is that, srsly. This is how people who specialize in something are rewarded

Holding down the W key to run away from everything isn't a "specialty".
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: bigsean on January 14, 2013, 09:05:43 pm
Did the "all old archers do fine so its ok" argument come up yet? You can't argue wth obviously biased individuals
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: Leshma on January 14, 2013, 09:20:30 pm
Le wild Idlewild appears :lol:
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: Smoothrich on January 14, 2013, 09:45:22 pm
What about cutting IF to half because its too hard for archers to kill tincans?

What kinda logic is that, srsly. This is how people who specialize in something are rewarded

The logic is that kiting is horrible gameplay and archers were practically as fast as light cavalry when they started sprinting.  Missile weight increase was to reduce the overpowered kiting power and maybe encourage archers to melee more or be more vulnerable to infantry when they close the gap.  Archer damage, accuracy, all that was unaffected.  Just kiting speed.

It was something nearly everybody wanted to see implemented.  Kiting with insane speed is the opposite of fun.
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: BattalGazi on January 14, 2013, 09:58:25 pm
1) If arrow weight does only affect running speed, then what else has changed to nerf archery? Did they change the missile speed also? Also as a HA, I cannot turn my body on the horse as fast as I could once, what is the reason for that? How many possible ways are there to nerf archery damn it ...

2) I agree that kiting can be annoying for any other type of infantry but hey, you are wearing heavy armor and heavy equipment, how do you expect to catch a light armored archer with mainly wooden gear? You are excusing your natural disadvantage against ranged units to nerf them, this is both selfish and ridiculous.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on January 14, 2013, 10:00:02 pm
I disagree for balance purposes Gazi.

What is the main advantage to ranged classes (we'll use archer as an example)?  They can hit people from a distance who cannot otherwise hit them. 

If they are able to out run everyone who can't hit them unless they close the gap, there's really no counter to archers besides other archers.  Or just camp behind a tree/building until flags come up.

My suggestion would be to have archers have to restring their bow after running full speed.  So they can't just run, turn, fire, run, turn, fire.

Sure let em run away but they can't just turn and shoot at you as soon as they get a slight distance away.
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: BattalGazi on January 14, 2013, 10:05:36 pm
Or reduce the amount of their arrows + disable picking arrows from the ground. So every arrow should count ...
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: OpenPalm on January 14, 2013, 10:33:58 pm
disable picking arrows from the ground

Please never do this.
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on January 14, 2013, 11:27:39 pm
Let's just disable picking up any item. Don't want cheaters getting a +3 Poleaxe without paying the upkeep!

On a more serious note, I would like to see the speed nerf changed. I am more frustrated at the lack of short range mobility as an archer. I can't pull out a dagger and do some fancy footwork anymore, unless I drop my bow and arrows before engaging in melee. For me, the added weight has basically made my bow/arrows "Cannot be Sheathed" status.

But I'm a bad archer and I rarely kite when melee engages me. Swashbuckling or dagger fighting is a lot of fun!
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: Smoothrich on January 15, 2013, 12:52:20 am
1) If arrow weight does only affect running speed, then what else has changed to nerf archery? Did they change the missile speed also? Also as a HA, I cannot turn my body on the horse as fast as I could once, what is the reason for that? How many possible ways are there to nerf archery damn it ...

2) I agree that kiting can be annoying for any other type of infantry but hey, you are wearing heavy armor and heavy equipment, how do you expect to catch a light armored archer with mainly wooden gear? You are excusing your natural disadvantage against ranged units to nerf them, this is both selfish and ridiculous.

Would I be too pessimistic to think that many of the investors for the new game project invest in that because they are generally infantry and they want to have a game with only sword play?

Arrows weighing more was the only recent nerf.  This applies to throwing, and crossbow bolts as well.  In fact I think there was a slight change in the PD/WPF formula to make higher PD builds more rewarding, but I'm not sure if they kept it in or not.

Heavy infantry are still much slower then archers, at least ones with maxed Athletics.  Pure archer builds with 3 or less Athletics used to still sprint twice as fast as any melee in medium armor, it was very lame. 

Archers can still kite and reposition between shots pretty easily.  They were just obscenely fast before.  There was a temporary change that halved Athletics based on your PD level or something of the sort, it was much more drastic and was reverted because it was too unpopular with archers.  So the balance team definitely isn't biased.

Also keep in mind as you get less and less arrows in your quivers your speed should start going up.  Weight is the total of every arrow, not just the quiver.  At least, that's what the main archer balancer, Shik, told me.

As for the new game, chadz and co have assured they are working on a new, deeper engine for archery and other ranged mechanics.  It sounds like it will be more difficult and skill-based then Warband currently is, but so will the melee fighting mechanics.  And probably be much more rewarding to play in the long run for both.
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: Vibe on January 15, 2013, 10:43:38 am
ITT biased archers want kiting back so they can be invincible by being able to deal damage from range and run away from any danger

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Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: Dezilagel on January 15, 2013, 11:06:49 am
Move to realism discussion.
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: Prpavi on January 15, 2013, 11:56:12 am
heavier bows/xbos also arrows and bolts.

and PD (skill) to use xbow, 8ath xbowers need to disappear.
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on January 15, 2013, 12:23:32 pm
heavier bows/xbos also arrows and bolts.

and PD (skill) to use xbow, 8ath xbowers need to disappear.

Weight was increased for all of the mentioned items. I approve of PD for xbows, as I've said before, a 14% damage bonus per PD point would be great for xbow. If you dont want to give this damage bonus then Power Draw should increase reloading speed which is also a very nice thing imo.
The difficulty states the amount of strength needed to draw it at all. In general, I dont think it makes sense but if you QQ about xbow long enough it will probably be added.
If you play melee you do not have PS requirements on weapons, it is optional and makes sense the way this game is made. No melee weapon requires a certain amount of Powerstrike.
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: Prpavi on January 15, 2013, 12:30:05 pm
Weight was increased for all of the mentioned items. I approve of PD for xbows, as I've said before, a 14% damage bonus per PD point would be great for xbow. If you dont want to give this damage bonus then Power Draw should increase reloading speed which is also a very nice thing imo.
The difficulty states the amount of strength needed to draw it at all. In general, I dont think it makes sense but if you QQ about xbow long enough it will probably be added.
If you play melee you do not have PS requirements on weapons, it is optional and makes sense the way this game is made. No melee weapon requires a certain amount of Powerstrike.

 i agree pd for xbows should allow some advantages to dedicated xbows and penalty for not using it, but its not so much about that its merely a "free" skill like no other (using xbow) you dont have to use PS in melee but it would be retared not to. would love to see the same with xbows.

the skill for xbow is more to stop xbows being used as a sidearm, i have nothing against dedicated xbowers and think the should get all the bonuses and minuses for their dedication to that particular class.
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on January 15, 2013, 02:03:37 pm
i agree pd for xbows should allow some advantages to dedicated xbows and penalty for not using it, but its not so much about that its merely a "free" skill like no other (using xbow) you dont have to use PS in melee but it would be retared not to. would love to see the same with xbows.

the skill for xbow is more to stop xbows being used as a sidearm, i have nothing against dedicated xbowers and think the should get all the bonuses and minuses for their dedication to that particular class.

I agree with that, I also dont want to see them as sidearm. I use a dedicated xbow build and rather use a 1h weapon as a sidearm. But I do not think that 8 Athletics Xbower would disappear with this change, I think that xbow/melee hybrids would disappear and pure runner xbow builds without PS and wpf in any melee would replace them.

At least thats what I would do, I like the melee system but I know that I am not doing well with it so I enjoy xbow much more. I've put almost all my loompoints into xbows and would give up melee to stay xbow.

Edit: It would also be possible to increase the penalty of having 1wpf in xbow or expand the requirements of xbows to a certain number of wpf points. Example (with random numbers):
50wpf - Hunting Xbow unlocked for use
70wpf - Light Xbow
100wpf - Xbow
120 - Heavy Xbow
140 - Arbalest
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: Phoenix_ZeSharpe on January 16, 2013, 09:50:16 pm
Quick Question, what exactly was nerfed in the latest 3-4 patches for archery? I know missile speed and arrow weight were; but  I feel like something else was.
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on January 16, 2013, 10:09:33 pm
some of the changes were reverted, I think arrows are shorter (?) than before. Think you mentioned the other important ones
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: Leshma on January 16, 2013, 10:11:25 pm
Horse archery is perfect example how all ranged in this mod should be balanced. Please, do the same with foot archers, crossbowmen, horse crossbowmen and throwers.
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: AluminumMonster on January 16, 2013, 10:47:21 pm
This shows you got no idea what the infantry community wants, the infantry community wants my old friendchers to stop kiting, that's pretty much it.

y not just cut the bullshit and delete the archer/xbow aspect of the game completely? now from what i hear from the eu patch you cant jump shoot anymore... great idea dev team!! this is a great preview of what to expect from that new game you are attempting to make. G mother fuckin G
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: Smoothrich on January 16, 2013, 11:26:39 pm
y not just cut the bullshit and delete the archer/xbow aspect of the game completely? now from what i hear from the eu patch you cant jump shoot anymore... great idea dev team!! this is a great preview of what to expect from that new game you are attempting to make. G mother fuckin G

I want to see them implement a turn angle nerf after you draw your bow, just like melee has.  360 jump point blank noscope shots are bullshit, so is drawing a bow and spinning around and shooting random infantry up close.

These are all tactics used by pikes that were either removed or players had to reinvent how to do them with less effectiveness. 
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on January 17, 2013, 07:34:04 am
I want to see them implement a turn angle nerf after you draw your bow, just like melee has.  360 jump point blank noscope shots are bullshit, so is drawing a bow and spinning around and shooting random infantry up close.

These are all tactics used by pikes that were either removed or players had to reinvent how to do them with less effectiveness.

Melee got nerfed so nerf everything else too or I will think that this game is bad QQ? Remove jumpslashing and jumpblocking, because ranged cant do that too. Also every weapon should have a max hitcount just like ranged has limited ammo.

These are different classes, why cant we have different advantages and disadvantages instead of balancing everything to death. Hey, forget leveling up and everybody just has a lvl30 char with 18/18 with 100wpf in each category and 6 skill points invested in each skill.
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: jtobiasm on January 17, 2013, 08:07:49 am
Horse archery is perfect example how all ranged in this mod should be balanced. Please, do the same with foot archers, crossbowmen, horse crossbowmen and throwers.
Clueless
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: Macropus on January 17, 2013, 08:38:46 am
A little bit of offtoping since somebody mentioned balancing of HAs.
Few questions to community:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on January 17, 2013, 02:42:15 pm
I want to see them implement a turn angle nerf after you draw your bow, just like melee has.  360 jump point blank noscope shots are bullshit, so is drawing a bow and spinning around and shooting random infantry up close.

These are all tactics used by pikes that were either removed or players had to reinvent how to do them with less effectiveness.

Excellent point, never really thought about the turn nerf not hitting archery.
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: bigsean on January 18, 2013, 05:40:24 am
360 NO SCOPE

get a sniper n00bs

scoutz 4 life
Title: Re: Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count
Post by: Mechanix on January 18, 2013, 07:42:05 am
360 NO SCOPE

get a sniper n00bs

scoutz 4 life

~Idlewild