cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: owens on January 06, 2013, 04:41:11 am

Title: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: owens on January 06, 2013, 04:41:11 am
I always thought myself a good duelist and competent group fighter. I thought I new every trick under the sun turns out I still had something to learn.

These are some good tricks that take very little skill.

The NA: Get out feinted and become vulnerable? just attack.   (I hate doing this but I found it so popular in NA that I had to try it. Great against guys like kadeth)

The Deadmeat77: Just got hit? simply attack back instantly, most people don't expect it.

The easy chamber: Block instantly in the correct direction and than attack in the "chambering" direction. So basically either quick block/attack or chamber.
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: isatis on January 06, 2013, 04:48:39 am
may I add this one :

The shield molester spam attack repetively a shield while using the d or the a key with the concordant attack direction and you'll have a chance on two to see your hit bypass shield and touch

yes this is what some people call : a ''my old friend'' move

also, one very very cool

just block, just block all in the name.

Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on January 06, 2013, 04:52:15 am
Quote
from bad players

Ooh, ooh. There's this really cool trick I learned. It's called lancer cav. You get on a horse and use a heavy lance to kill all the other team's afk's and peasants.
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: Banok on January 06, 2013, 05:09:10 am
I love how mad shielders get if holding right mouse button doesn't mean they are 100% invincible.
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: Lamk on January 06, 2013, 05:40:15 am

The NA: Get out feinted and become vulnerable? just attack.   (I hate doing this but I found it so popular in NA that I had to try it. Great against guys like kadeth)

The Deadmeat77: Just got hit? simply attack back instantly, most people don't expect it.


These are the reasons why I rage playing this game
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: isatis on January 06, 2013, 05:48:37 am
These are the reasons why I rage playing this game

I always wondered how good player can rage at this game.

I mean yes I suck but if I get killed by a tricks i just laugh and continue typing thing in chat getting type-killed in my gimbed built with peasant loom and no armor while I spend most of my time not attacking half the other team for rp purpose.

...

yeah maybe that's why I suck
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: Vodner on January 06, 2013, 05:52:38 am
I never really found getting swung out of sequence to be that rage inducing. I always felt it was my own fault for not paying enough attention to what my opponent was doing.
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: Cyclopsided on January 06, 2013, 05:56:38 am
I wouldn't consider those tricks, but 2 gambles.
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: Lamk on January 06, 2013, 05:57:31 am
Well these tricks are completely the opposite of what I would do in these situations.
When someone is feinting me, I wait until he strikes and when I get hit I wait until the next swing to parry it.
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: Equal on January 06, 2013, 07:04:33 am
I hope more people start doing the easy chamber; it's a simple pattern to recognize and also easily countered by holding your swings. Also people spamming doesn't always get to me, enough gens as 1h and you just have to learn to block more than once, although it's definitely more annoying when you aren't a 1h.
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: Zanze on January 06, 2013, 08:14:36 am
I learned to spam. Then, not being the mindless str crutch spammer zombie that I am(arguable), learned to actually block while spamming.
Results are increased shield life span (more time attacking = less time being attacked), and increased amount of damage output(more attacks = more damage). Works wonderfully once you can judge who hits first. (Who pulls back his weapon first 9/10 of time)

Usually when asked in my TS: "Zan, how do you always top the score on battle you dirty valor whore?" I reply with "Left mouse button."
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: Kuujis on January 06, 2013, 09:53:40 am
Being a nab and all that - here is what I learned from my Gen 1 and well into Gen 2: Do not rush to attack, let the attack come*. after you block/chamber - only a few are quick enough to survive a counter attack, but at that point fun begins, since both of you know that some swinging is about to happen. On the other hand - if you could not parry enemies first attack - you have a lesson to learn and that fight is lost anyway.

*Does not apply to maulers and feint "experts". Those need to be cut/kicked first :rolleyes:
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: Cyclopsided on January 06, 2013, 10:11:21 am
I still think feinting more often than 1 out of 15 swings is a waste and detrimental.
 I love dueling people who feint a lot, my win rate vs them is soooo much higher than if those same people don't feint often.
Though, by all means -- keep on doing it guys. I love killing you by chambering your feint; as you change your attack I hit you. Every feint is a huge opening to be chambered or double swung on.

 Unless it is a specific well timed, well practiced feint that is immune to chambers, don't do them.

*sadly right now I play with a ping spiking between 140 and 200 ping, so I can't melee properly. If it was a constant 130 I can still chamber everything but holds at least.

EU and NA both need to learn to chamber reliably, it is so easy to get down. When people start doing it more often, the feinters will fall from their perch.
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: Shaksie on January 06, 2013, 10:14:25 am
The NA: Get out feinted and become vulnerable? just attack.   (I hate doing this but I found it so popular in NA that I had to try it. Great against guys like kadeth)
The Deadmeat77: Just got hit? simply attack back instantly, most people don't expect it.
Fuck, I do these all the time. Does this make me bad? :(
But yeah, these destroy good people and it makes me rage when people hit me with doing them, I guess I can deal shit but can't take it hehe.
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: Osiris on January 06, 2013, 11:10:43 am
Your posts show just how stupid you are... they are all valid tactics, if someone is feinting like crazy why not attack them?  I think you should pay attention to your enemy not just how fast you can feint spam
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on January 06, 2013, 01:05:50 pm
"The NA: Get out feinted and become vulnerable? just attack.   (I hate doing this but I found it so popular in NA that I had to try it. Great against guys like kadeth)"

Good players have been doing that like forever, however they still know how to block the feints and they will swing when you change direction.
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: Casimir on January 06, 2013, 01:24:00 pm
I smell butt hurt...
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: EyeBeat on January 06, 2013, 01:38:59 pm
The new trick I came across is hitting the enemy player or players with out them blocking it.

This usually results in them taking damage or better yet dying.

If you do this enough the players that do not die often will get whats coming to them! 

They will fail eventually using this tactic!   :twisted:
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: Joseph Porta on January 06, 2013, 01:41:22 pm
the only reason people can feint spam is because they outreach their opponent, if theyre close enough you can easily get an instant right swing in.

hit after getting hit is quite a common move imo.
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: [ptx] on January 06, 2013, 01:47:54 pm
The "good" players: Feint for 5 seconds every time, then call the opponent "spamming noob" after i die, makes me feel so warm and fuzzy inside.
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on January 06, 2013, 01:50:34 pm
The "good" players: Feint for 5 seconds every time, then call the opponent "spamming noob" after i die, makes me feel so warm and fuzzy inside.
Those "good" players, are in fact really really bad.
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: IG_Saint on January 06, 2013, 02:32:04 pm
Those "good" players, are in fact really really bad.

I think your sarcasm detector is broken.
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: Kafein on January 06, 2013, 03:03:22 pm
I really really don't like getting killed by something really similar to a gamble move for the enemy. I usually stare at my monitor thinking about words like "cheap", then I respawn.

Especially attacking after getting hit, what if I had followup swung immediatly like 99% of the playerbase, moron ?
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on January 06, 2013, 03:05:11 pm
I think your sarcasm detector is broken.
Acting like you thought a guy was serious when you damn well know he was sarcastic and having a tard like you post this always makes me laugh.
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: Kafein on January 06, 2013, 03:11:38 pm
If you get killed by "feintspam" in cRPG you are not a good player. Block better. Attacking someone that is feinting you is just the quick gamble move and it won't make you learn anything.

Also, slow feints are usually much more effective than quick feints.
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on January 06, 2013, 03:13:18 pm
Attacking someone that is feinting you is just the quick gamble move and it won't make you learn anything.
Attacking someone that is feinting while being a good enough player to predict whether he's gonna feint again or strike won't teach you anything, but it will give you a free hit on him, so do it.
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: Osiris on January 06, 2013, 03:14:01 pm
nothing saying i cant block feint spam but why should i let him finish when i can attack? Its battle you kill and move on
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: _GTX_ on January 06, 2013, 03:19:49 pm
If you get killed by "feintspam" in cRPG you are not a good player. Block better. Attacking someone that is feinting you is just the quick gamble move and it won't make you learn anything.

Also, slow feints are usually much more effective than quick feints.

Look at the opponents feints, u will get to see a kind of ''style''. U can actually see if some feints is there to confuse u, or actually hit u. The easiest way of figuring this out is looking at the feint, is it gonna hit, if he realeses it? If it is not goin to hit u, then u can try and hit him while feinting.

Now u do learn something there.
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: Teeth on January 06, 2013, 03:52:52 pm
Look at the opponents feints, u will get to see a kind of ''style''. U can actually see if some feints is there to confuse u, or actually hit u. The easiest way of figuring this out is looking at the feint, is it gonna hit, if he realeses it? If it is not goin to hit u, then u can try and hit him while feinting.

Now u do learn something there.
Wow, GTX, thanks that was brilliant.

Attacking someone that is feinting while being a good enough player to predict whether he's gonna feint again or strike won't teach you anything, but it will give you a free hit on him, so do it.
You cannot predict that unless someone is a really bad feinter, there are very few people that feint like that. Better is to try to chamber one of his feints. If it is a feint you hit him, if it is an actual attack you'll chamber. Then brace yourself for being called a spammer all the time because you chamber while they feint.
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on January 06, 2013, 04:07:50 pm
Wow, GTX, thanks that was brilliant.
You cannot predict that unless someone is a really bad feinter, there are very few people that feint like that. Better is to try to chamber one of his feints. If it is a feint you hit him, if it is an actual attack you'll chamber. Then brace yourself for being called a spammer all the time because you chamber while they feint.
You'd be surprised at what you can predict, as gtx said most people got feint styles and will feint in patterns, ofc it also helps having a faster weapon but in general that isn't necesarry.
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: Son Of Odin on January 06, 2013, 04:12:30 pm
Someone still actually feints these days? Why bother? :rolleyes:
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: [ptx] on January 06, 2013, 04:14:17 pm
I feint and hit enemies, i "spam" against people that feint too much and hit enemies. In the end, who is bad and who is better is determined by... who remains standing.
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: Son Of Odin on January 06, 2013, 04:19:21 pm
I feint and hit enemies, i "spam" against people that feint too much and hit enemies. In the end, who is bad and who is better is determined by... who remains standing.
Amen.

And fast feinting is overrated.
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: IG_Saint on January 06, 2013, 04:48:50 pm
Acting like you thought a guy was serious when you damn well know he was sarcastic and having a tard like you post this always makes me laugh.

Gotta love the word "tard" coming from a guy who was convinced I was meow for how many months exactly? Glad I made you laugh though, having a good sense of humour is so important.
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on January 06, 2013, 04:50:49 pm
Gotta love the word "tard" coming from a guy who was convinced I was meow for how many months exactly? Glad I made you laugh though, having a good sense of humour is so important.
I think your sarcasm detector is was broken.
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: Joseph Porta on January 06, 2013, 04:54:48 pm

i dun get it
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: IG_Saint on January 06, 2013, 05:02:22 pm


Implying that you weren't conviced I was meow, it was just a joke? Riiiight, I'm not buying it. You were and are just an idiot. Good day sir.
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: isatis on January 06, 2013, 05:06:29 pm
Saint is not Meow... pffft Zlisch!!

Everyone know Meow is Saint!!

tsk tsk tsk
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on January 06, 2013, 05:21:58 pm
Implying that you weren't conviced I was meow, it was just a joke? Riiiight, I'm not buying it. You were and are just an idiot. Good day sir.
You got me, I admit it, I also believed the random admin I accused of being cmp for half an hour was cmp, I believe everything I say.  :rolleyes:
Edit: Oh, and Thomek is from Sweden 4 real.
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: F9MP on January 06, 2013, 05:34:57 pm
Feinting is actually really useful in another way. If you can manage to feint in a certain manner around three to four times in a row, then after your last attack ends, about half a second will pass and then you will swing extremely fast and only the second half of the animation will play. So basically unblockable.
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: Vibe on January 06, 2013, 05:43:23 pm
Here's one I call "The Australian":

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: Miwiw on January 06, 2013, 05:44:22 pm
This is "the Asian"

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: EyeBeat on January 08, 2013, 02:39:28 pm
Feinting is actually really useful in another way. If you can manage to feint in a certain manner around three to four times in a row, then after your last attack ends, about half a second will pass and then you will swing extremely fast and only the second half of the animation will play. So basically unblockable.
this

Didn't know anyone else knew about that...
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: Grumbs on January 08, 2013, 02:49:03 pm

EU and NA both need to learn to chamber reliably, it is so easy to get down. When people start doing it more often, the feinters will fall from their perch.

I'd like to learn to chamber reliably, but when you have 1 life it just seems too risky especially with a polearm. Your attacks come from behind you and gets caught on things randomly (players or anything really) and they generally attack slower than 2 or 1 hand. I'd rather just hold my block until I stun the guy and get my own opening, eventhough i'm probably quite predictable
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: Vibe on January 08, 2013, 02:59:20 pm
this

Didn't know anyone else knew about that...

that's because it is only the client executing that feint who sees it like that, while the enemy sees the full animation
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: Gurnisson on January 08, 2013, 03:00:56 pm
I'd like to learn to chamber reliably, but when you have 1 life it just seems too risky especially with a polearm. Your attacks come from behind you and gets caught on things randomly (players or anything really) and they generally attack slower than 2 or 1 hand. I'd rather just hold my block until I stun the guy and get my own opening, eventhough i'm probably quite predictable

When I used LB or GLA I always chambered with my right swing, but rarely bothered with the other direction. I know you use a LB yourself so could be nice to do once in a while. Instant hit to the face on those pesky one-handers spamming left swing was always hilarious. Nowadays my chambering is very rusty. Break from the game and only using weapons with 1 direction doesn't really help keeping it up to scratch.. :)

What I learned from bad players was noticing people facehugging and thrusting at the very start of the animation gives a much shorter stun than later on. Doing a thrust like that intentionally and follow up with a quick right or left swing is noice.
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: EyeBeat on January 08, 2013, 03:15:57 pm
that's because it is only the client executing that feint who sees it like that, while the enemy sees the full animation

I noticed when I am fighting I sometimes get to a point where I can queue up a hit and have it swing at the enemy with out even touching the mouse button. 

When this happens... it ends up being an incredibly faster than normal hit...

I hardly know how to recreate it.  It just seems to happen.

I use a huscarl and elite scimi.
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: Vibe on January 08, 2013, 03:21:25 pm
I noticed when I am fighting I sometimes get to a point where I can queue up a hit and have it swing at the enemy with out even touching the mouse button. 

When this happens... it ends up being an incredibly faster than normal hit...

I hardly know how to recreate it.  It just seems to happen.

I use a huscarl and elite scimi.

Yes I know about that, and I'm pretty certain the part where it seem freeze for a bit (the "queue") is played as animation to the enemy.

Btw this "queue & start animation halfway through the swing" attack is executed by blocking at the end of the first swing animation and attacking right after. Either way, it's very much blockable.
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: Smoothrich on January 08, 2013, 03:39:29 pm
If I am using a balanced/fast weapon, I just spam people.  You can block out of it if you get out footworked without much trouble.  Always better to be on the offensive.  People call me a shit spammer often cuz of it, especially because I disregard HP loss and don't bother blocking when I have plenty of health and am against a lower damage weapon, who I treat as peasants to perfect aggressive spam against.  But its way more fun for me then trying to be a feinting queen or a passive pootie blocker.  If you get good at it you can double hit people regularly and they will get mad, but its just mad cuz bad so who cares.

I spam pikers in strat battles who try to pull jump 360 bullshit and cut through pike blobs in seconds.  If a piker is supporting teammates, just charge the piker and spam because most pikers are cowards and their teammates are idiots.  You will zone him out fast but need to kill him before he gets to more teammates, then turn around and own some more.  More difficult to be aggressive against thrust attacks now though because they hit instantly (without the jump) and can interrupt attacks, but most pikers don't realize this. 

One of the best tricks to be successful as a 2hander, since all the animation nerfs, is to wade into blobs of people and spam while moving erratically.  This is completely rage inducing when someone does it to your team and I always think the person is a scrub and doesn't deserve to get all those points, but when I play Strat this is one of my primary methods of being a kill machine and a huge disruption to the enemy.  Throw in some upblocks and you are practically invincible.
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: Cyclopsided on January 08, 2013, 07:02:44 pm
I'd like to learn to chamber reliably, but when you have 1 life it just seems too risky especially with a polearm. Your attacks come from behind you and gets caught on things randomly (players or anything really) and they generally attack slower than 2 or 1 hand. I'd rather just hold my block until I stun the guy and get my own opening, eventhough i'm probably quite predictable
It is actually really easy to chamber once you understand your weapon's timing window. I use mostly pole arm, and I could chamber holds reliably as long as my ping was 70 or lower. However, 1h Definitely has the advantage with chambering. the chambering portion of the 1h animation happens earlier in the sequence than the other weapons, by a noticeable margin.
(click to show/hide)
The REAL trick is completely disregarding when they start the attack. You start your attack (to chamber) when their weapon is going to HIT you. NOT when they start the attack. If you need time to react at first, that is normal, just try starting the attack later and later in their animation. As your muscle memory adapts to animation cues, you can get faster and faster at chambering (in other words, chambering later and later in their animation, as far as your reaction goes). Eventually you can chamber held attacks reliably.
Held overhead and thrust attacks are the only way to learn to chamber those IMO. As in, you should never chamber an overhead or thrust based on when it starts, they give you soooo much time to react after the point of holds being released, int he animation. Have somebody hold a thrust at you with a pike, and chamber it when they release it, then progress to faster weapons. It is super easy to pick it up that way.

other HUGE HUGE HUGE hint: Your footwork. As soon as you see them pulling their weapon back, let's say, to the left side --: begin stepping to the right. Not chambering yet. Not blocking or anything, just moving away from their attack, giving you more time to chamber. or, giving you time to properly position yourself, THEN chamber.
Moving with the direction they are swinging is the single handed most important thing to picking up chambers. Not doing it is the most common error among people learning. It can double the amount of time you have to react to their attack.
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: Kafein on January 08, 2013, 07:49:38 pm
This is my personal opinion, but I like M&B combat because of feinting and holding. However, people started downright spamming more and more, and it has been going on for at the very least one year now. Good players, bad players, everyone spammed less six months ago. Now it's to the point a fair margin of the new players just look at the top scorers and think "so if run in circles and tap lmb, I will get kills" and that leads to terrible gameplay. The worst part is that with that many brainless spammers, feinting is becoming kinda risky, so feinters just default to a defensive block-attack rythm, to force the other guy into blocking, and fights get longer and longer. We are slowly reaching the point where combat isn't really directional anymore but just about timing and learning to break the already crappy player collision model of the game.

To anyone thinking spamming is pro : you are wrong. You are basically protecting yourself from the complexity of the game by doing an excessively simple move that statistically works because you can survive the hits you take when you fail, you will kill other people because their attack was mere milliseconds too late, you negate the arsenal of people that could otherwise kill you very easily and you will get chamberblocks.


Rant over. For now.
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: Smoothrich on January 08, 2013, 08:02:14 pm
This is my personal opinion, but I like M&B combat because of feinting and holding. However, people started downright spamming more and more, and it has been going on for at the very least one year now. Good players, bad players, everyone spammed less six months ago. Now it's to the point a fair margin of the new players just look at the top scorers and think "so if run in circles and tap lmb, I will get kills" and that leads to terrible gameplay. The worst part is that with that many brainless spammers, feinting is becoming kinda risky, so feinters just default to a defensive block-attack rythm, to force the other guy into blocking, and fights get longer and longer. We are slowly reaching the point where combat isn't really directional anymore but just about timing and learning to break the already crappy player collision model of the game.

To anyone thinking spamming is pro : you are wrong. You are basically protecting yourself from the complexity of the game by doing an excessively simple move that statistically works because you can survive the hits you take when you fail, you will kill other people because their attack was mere milliseconds too late, you negate the arsenal of people that could otherwise kill you very easily and you will get chamberblocks.


Rant over. For now.

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/intermediates-guide.html

Quote from: Sirlin
The scrub has lost the game even before it starts. He’s lost the game even before deciding which game to play. His problem? He does not play to win.

The scrub would take great issue with this statement for he usually believes that he is playing to win, but he is bound up by an intricate construct of fictitious rules that prevents him from ever truly competing. These made-up rules vary from game to game, of course, but their character remains constant.

In Street Fighter, the scrub labels a wide variety of tactics and situations “cheap.” This “cheapness” is truly the mantra of the scrub. Performing a throw on someone is often called cheap. A throw is a special kind of move that grabs an opponent and damages him, even when the opponent is defending against all other kinds of attacks. The entire purpose of the throw is to be able to damage an opponent who sits and blocks and doesn’t attack. As far as the game is concerned, throwing is an integral part of the design—it’s meant to be there—yet the scrub has constructed his own set of principles in his mind that state he should be totally impervious to all attacks while blocking. The scrub thinks of blocking as a kind of magic shield that will protect him indefinitely. Why? Exploring the reasoning is futile since the notion is ridiculous from the start.

...Doing one move or sequence over and over and over is a tactic close to my heart that often elicits the call of the scrub. This goes right to the heart of the matter: why can the scrub not defeat something so obvious and telegraphed as a single move done over and over? Is he such a poor player that he can’t counter that move? And if the move is, for whatever reason, extremely difficult to counter, then wouldn’t I be a fool for not using that move? The first step in becoming a top player is the realization that playing to win means doing whatever most increases your chances of winning. That is true by definition of playing to win. The game knows no rules of “honor” or of “cheapness.” The game only knows winning and losing.

Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: Kafein on January 08, 2013, 08:46:23 pm
http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/intermediates-guide.html

Quoting the author of a self-improvement book called "Playing to Win", really ? Also calling people scrubs is a great way to show how much of an asshole trying to convince tools to buy his book he is himself.

Now, all of this is true of course.

If chess was modified, adding the rule that the first player saying "I have too many pawns" wins the game, "scrubs" would probably still be playing the kind of chess we know, while people that play to win would be busy putting duct tape on their opponent's mouth, and following your logic there would be nothing wrong with that. I mean, we would lose one of the most interesting strategy games ever designed in favor of something that anyone above the age of 3 would call stupid but at least you win over scrubs.
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: [ptx] on January 08, 2013, 09:55:36 pm
Egads, Kafein, everyone can right-left-click-spam to do feintspam. It is just as "cheap" as anything else. I spam a lot of people, i will not deny. But i cannot afford to take hits, more often than not my enemies take far more hits than it would take them to kill me (lack of armor looms? non-str-crutch build? medium armor at most?). I take a risk, sure, but, what you don't seem to get, is that it is a calculated risk. I attack, when i see an opening. I guess you don't see such openings in your enemies behaviour, which is why you have such a problem with this.

And, afterall, if the non-"spammer" is so skilled, why does he lose to the "brainless" guy?
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: MrShine on January 08, 2013, 10:19:14 pm
There's 'spam' and then there's 'conscious spam', which IMO are two very different things.

You can decide to swing repeatedly against an enemy.

^ That's noobish spam, and very easily countered by anyone who blocks your first swing & maintains proper footwork while countering with an attack.

OR

You can prepare a follow-up to your swing in the event the enemy is a) out of position b) using the wrong swing for the situation c) delayed in reacting d) occupied by another enemy.  If they commit an error, then your 'spam' attack lands.  If they don't commit an error, you can stop the follow-up swing mid animation and block instead.

^ That's the sort of 'spam' that is calculated & effective. 

They are really quite different.

Yes it is frustrating when someone catches you unawares by spamming when they "shouldn't", but those are risky moves and really it's your own fault for being in a situation where you could have punished them but you didn't.  My rule of thumb is start slow with any new enemy (focus on simple attacks), and as the fight warrants increase your complexity.  This will catch many 'spammers'

Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: Vodner on January 09, 2013, 03:07:54 am
To anyone thinking spamming is pro : you are wrong. You are basically protecting yourself from the complexity of the game by doing an excessively simple move that statistically works because you can survive the hits you take when you fail, you will kill other people because their attack was mere milliseconds too late, you negate the arsenal of people that could otherwise kill you very easily and you will get chamberblocks.
If doing a fairly simple thing negates the arsenal of your opponent, then that arsenal isn't worth anything. The only real problem is when a combination of very high armor values and high IF means that you aren't really taking a risk, because you can survive a half-dozen shots.
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: rustyspoon on January 09, 2013, 05:50:27 am
The only real problem is when a combination of very high armor values and high IF means that you aren't really taking a risk, because you can survive a half-dozen shots.

Yeah, this game would be soooo much better if people died faster. It makes it a hell of a lot more fun in my opinion. It also makes fights more interesting when you know you'll be dead in 1 or 2 mistakes. IF is for chumps.
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: San on January 09, 2013, 06:35:56 am
I like how weapons designed to 2-shot everything have well-defined drawbacks. I think it would be too much if my long, spammy weapon can also kill anyone quickly. It would ruin the point of those powerhouse weapons. I think maximum armor is pretty dang high, and loomed medium armor turning into the equivalent of heavy is just nuts, though. Too much for most non-loomed 1h cut to handle, that's for sure.


In most games I play, knowledge > anything else. This can be obtained by playing, reading forums, or research of the mechanics. It just takes time for players to discover what works for themselves. At first, I focused on my animation in relation to my opponents'. Things began to become more dynamic once I learned the importance of footwork and animation differences. Learning from losses and understanding what your opponent knows/utilizes that you don't is  an important next step. I like how classes and builds can be wildly different, yet people can make them work.
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: Artyem on January 09, 2013, 06:42:09 am
I took the long tedious journey that is playing as 21/15 1h after 6 gens of 2h / polearm.  I have begun to master the art of being thankful that as polearm / 2h most people don't out swing you when you're already half way through your swing.


Well, that and I've gotten better at not raging when I die to some bullshit backswing from 20 ft away or some shit like that.

Lesson to be learned:  playing as a one hander helps you learn how to control the anger, as you learn how to be the most under powered piece of shit in the entire game.  (only true to people who don't have +3 shields and +3 elite scimitars)
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: Tigero on January 09, 2013, 09:54:19 am
I once did a STF agiwhoring 1h character, and i have never used such op class in M&B, i could literally outreach a danish by stepping back and spamming with my shashka and with the speedbonus i could kill in 5 hits a regular person. And i'm not even going to say shit about high level shielder chars, they can hide behind that thing forever and make a deadly fast blow whenever needed. Shield forcefield must be nerfed so you have a chance to kill my old friends who hide forever behind that crappy piece of wood... :D
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: Zaar on January 09, 2013, 12:44:55 pm
I am nowhere neas as good as some here, hell I've only learned to play on WASD like a month or two ago lol :mrgreen: , but IMHO, everything in this game has a counter move/action.

Same is for tactics, same is for 1v1, etc.

The sooner as people realize nothing is "noobish" and you can't beat all builds with your particular build, the better for them.

Example would be, instead of yelling "FCKING ARCHERS AARGHH" (oh I do it too  :mrgreen: ), let your shielders go for them.

Yes, I just discovered hot water  :mrgreen: but sometimes the obvious needs to be stated.

Also, some nice advices, especially regarding chambering. I learned something as well  :)
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: Kafein on January 09, 2013, 01:19:45 pm
Since my rageposts, people seem to systematically try to spam me. Please continue. Unless you use a +3 longsword, it won't work. I have turned into a fully loomed naked spammitar aboozer just for you people.

Yes I'm adapting but I still think it's dull gameplay, especially considering the fact that someone able to spam and yet always block at the last moment is basically forcing you to do the same. I know it takes some practice to reach that point, but that's not paying much for something making feints and holds obsolete.
Title: Re: New tricks that I learnt from bad players.
Post by: BADPLAYER_old2 on January 09, 2013, 04:55:05 pm
Yes I'm adapting but I still think it's dull gameplay, especially considering the fact that someone able to spam and yet always block at the last moment is basically forcing you to do the same. I know it takes some practice to reach that point, but that's not paying much for something making feints and holds obsolete.

Not really, theres plenty of ways to counter someone fighting that way. If they are "spamming" by never feinting or holding you should just chamber all of their swings, they probably will block 90% of the chambers but they will soon learn to stop doing that against you and then you have them holding which you can use to your advantage by switching up your playstyle and doing what they were doing at first.

Or you can just play the out ranging game and kick them whenever they come in close, 1hs especially are great at this with their right swing but most people don't understand how to use it so just left swing spam and wonder why they die.