cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: BenonKnight on January 03, 2013, 08:13:31 pm

Title: DTV: The Blocking Bots
Post by: BenonKnight on January 03, 2013, 08:13:31 pm
Can someone tell me, from when bots are blocking all directions? ( yea i know what is chamber- not this time ). And why only on NA server?
Title: Re: DTV: The Blocking Bots
Post by: Hygat on January 03, 2013, 08:28:31 pm
wat
Title: Re: DTV: The Blocking Bots
Post by: Butan on January 03, 2013, 09:01:34 pm
Last time I played EU DTV, bots only block down; so he is asking since when they block all directions (on NA).
Title: Re: DTV: The Blocking Bots
Post by: Uther Pendragon on January 03, 2013, 11:28:36 pm
NA bots are evolving  :shock:

What the hell did you feed them!?
Title: Re: DTV: The Blocking Bots
Post by: Tennenoth on January 03, 2013, 11:36:47 pm
As far as I understand, if "automatic" block is turned off, the bots will only block downwards, otherwise if it is on (allowing for a legit auto-block of sorts) then the bots are able to block in all directions.

I would guess that someone turned that on either by accident or not but unless some WSE magic has been done, I'd put money on that.
Title: Re: DTV: The Blocking Bots
Post by: cmp on January 04, 2013, 12:36:33 am
WSE2 fixes bots being unable to block when manual block is on. NA DTV runs on WSE2, EU DTV does not.
Title: Re: DTV: The Blocking Bots
Post by: Tennenoth on January 04, 2013, 12:39:12 am
WSE magic.
Title: Re: DTV: The Blocking Bots
Post by: BenonKnight on January 04, 2013, 03:35:42 pm
Is implement WSE on EU DTV in plans? It would be nice.

@Uther
I fed them using my bow and cookie-arrowhead arrows.
Title: Re: DTV: The Blocking Bots
Post by: Phew on January 04, 2013, 04:14:15 pm
Bots used to not block overheads, is this fixed? You can kill like 20+ peasants at a time just by backpedaling while doing overheads.

If bots block adequately now, their ranged accuracy needs to be seriously reduced. Peasants headshotting people from across the map with xbows, Mylet one-shotting the entire team, etc.
Title: Re: DTV: The Blocking Bots
Post by: Arrowblood on January 04, 2013, 04:17:13 pm
Bots used to not block overheads, is this fixed? You can kill like 20+ peasants at a time just by backpedaling while doing overheads.
Thats how uther rapes a whole wave  :D
Title: Re: DTV: The Blocking Bots
Post by: Paul on January 04, 2013, 04:32:28 pm
NA is higher skilled than EU and thus the bots need that buff there.
Title: Re: DTV: The Blocking Bots
Post by: Lactating Vegetables on January 04, 2013, 04:33:42 pm
pfff eu has some skill, dont put us down like that.

then again how can it be prove if we're are not give a fair chance
Title: Re: DTV: The Blocking Bots
Post by: Daniisme on January 04, 2013, 04:52:25 pm
I would like bots that can block  :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Title: Re: DTV: The Blocking Bots
Post by: IG_Saint on January 04, 2013, 04:57:11 pm
WSE2 fixes bots being unable to block when manual block is on. NA DTV runs on WSE2, EU DTV does not.

NA server has something that the EU server doesn't?! What an outrage, please fix this horrible injustice immediately!

On a serious note, this seems like something that will unbalance DTV quite a bit, considering that currently an average team struggles to get past nomads and almost never beats sea raiders.
Title: Re: DTV: The Blocking Bots
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on January 04, 2013, 05:05:42 pm
NA server has something that the EU server doesn't?! What an outrage, please fix this horrible injustice immediately!

On a serious note, this seems like something that will unbalance DTV quite a bit, considering that currently an average team struggles to get past nomads and almost never beats sea raiders.
I repeat that I doubt it's intended for average teams to get above that, good teams barely ever even get past those guys with xbows, the only teams that ever get past Engineers are people who abuse how shit the bots and the dtv maps function, and fuck cheaters.
Title: Re: DTV: The Blocking Bots
Post by: IG_Saint on January 04, 2013, 05:54:56 pm
I repeat that I doubt it's intended for average teams to get above that, good teams barely ever even get past those guys with xbows, the only teams that ever get past Engineers are people who abuse how shit the bots and the dtv maps function, and fuck cheaters.

Actually I think it's more of an unintented consequence of the change from defend the village to virgin and the fact that after that major overhaul all development on the mode stopped. In any case my point wasn't that DTV is already extremely unbalanced, but rather that making bots block properly will make it even worse. Rather than have the devs overhaul the mode completely, which they probably aren't going to do anyway, since they've said they stopped all development on it, I'd suggest just reducing the amount of bots by say 1 to 3 depending on player number or Phew's suggestion to reduce their ranged accuracy, just to stop the unbalance from becoming even worse.
Title: Re: DTV: The Blocking Bots
Post by: Butan on January 04, 2013, 06:41:57 pm
Would be cool if the bots had the same tactical group AI as in some SP mod of Warband : being able to retreat, form up, split, charge, hold, etc...

This would really give a proper feeling of "defending" and not just "herding" those waves of stupid bots.


It would certainly require the bots to be less numerous (like maybe a ratio of 1 human 1 bot ?), and making them able to block all directions is enough to legitimize a decrease of their numbers too (put it on EU plx!).
Title: Re: DTV: The Blocking Bots
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on January 04, 2013, 06:53:54 pm
Would be cool if the bots had the same tactical group AI as in some SP mod of Warband : being able to retreat, form up, split, charge, hold, etc...

This would really give a proper feeling of "defending" and not just "herding" those waves of stupid bots.


It would certainly require the bots to be less numerous (like maybe a ratio of 1 human 1 bot ?), and making them able to block all directions is enough to legitimize a decrease of their numbers too (put it on EU plx!).
Pretty sure in native the bots only gather up in formations if they got a living leader, would be awesome if they implemented something like that, maybe make it only one wave and then have them walking in a somewhat decent formation until the boss dies at which point they all charge/retreat.
Title: Re: DTV: The Blocking Bots
Post by: Pejlaen on January 04, 2013, 08:40:45 pm
They're too evolved now. And we still fool ourselves thinking we're their superiors. Let me tell you something, when I first started initiating contact with these creatures, it stood pretty clear that their main objective in their short lives were to be attacking a village. However it didnt take long before they realized their mistake, and started dedicating their lives for girls instead. And now you're telling me they're learning how to block?!?

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DTV: The Blocking Bots
Post by: Pejlaen on January 04, 2013, 08:46:55 pm
NA is higher skilled than EU and thus the bots need that buff there.

Not sure, afterall this NA person had 1 encounter with proper blocking and it confused him to the degree where he felt the need to make a thread about it.
Title: Re: DTV: The Blocking Bots
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on January 04, 2013, 08:50:27 pm
Not sure, afterall this NA person had 1 encounter with proper blocking and it confused him to the degree where he felt the need to make a thread about it.
Saulcanner could kick every Euros ass if they had an equal ping, even with the 120+ he got on EU_3 he could still kill 90% of the Euretards.
Title: Re: DTV: The Blocking Bots
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on January 04, 2013, 09:09:18 pm
Not sure, afterall this NA person had 1 encounter with proper blocking and it confused him to the degree where he felt the need to make a thread about it.

Obviously Paul is fucking around.  I hate playing DTV on EU or NA 7, the HRE server usually has good people on it though.

There's been exceptions, I've been on NA7 before with a full server and we were consistently getting to the crossbow class
Title: Re: DTV: The Blocking Bots
Post by: Phew on January 04, 2013, 09:19:38 pm
Saulcanner could kick every Euros ass if they had an equal ping, even with the 120+ he got on EU_3 he could still kill 90% of the Euretards.

Wait, DTV bots now block like Saul? God help us...
Title: Re: DTV: The Blocking Bots
Post by: BenonKnight on January 04, 2013, 09:29:25 pm
Saulcanner could kick every Euros ass if they had an equal ping, even with the 120+ he got on EU_3 he could still kill 90% of the Euretards.

Watch out guys we have fanboy over there. I have to check it. Hope will catch him and see his awesomeness.

Quote
the only teams that ever get past Engineers are people who abuse how shit the bots and the dtv maps function, and fuck cheaters.

How do you know? 1 I was in team which without any glitch, shieldwall or cheat almost beat sexies 3rd wave. I mean we were fighting in open field. We could win if not headshots. 2 I was in team which won using shieldwall. I bet there were better scores than those 2.

I think the addition of block ability for bots is good idea. Sure, it will be harder but not so brainless. Now its just like LMB spam for some people. When bots will block, it will become more interesting. Maybe noone will reach tincans. So what? Earlier waves will be enough fun.
Title: Re: DTV: The Blocking Bots
Post by: Kelugarn on January 04, 2013, 10:22:27 pm
The fun part of DTV for me has always been bot herding and out smarting the terribad AI. It's not fun to fight peasants, bandits, nomads only to wipe and repeat every round and every map. You all rationalize it by saying "oh but they're just blocking" and that would be fine except for one thing. Native AI bots do not know how to fear. They don't know how to be afraid. If they could fear then you could split them and rout them; divide and conquer. But when you're facing a wall of heavily armored, super powered (don't forget that the bots have crazy high stats) tin cans who cannot understand pain or terror there is very little even a crack-team of our very best can do.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DTV: The Blocking Bots
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on January 04, 2013, 10:34:44 pm
Native AI bots do not know how to fear. They don't know how to be afraid. If they could fear then you could split them and rout them; divide and conquer.
In native singleplayer battle you could do that, just sayin'.
Title: Re: DTV: The Blocking Bots
Post by: Froto_the_Loc on January 04, 2013, 10:37:22 pm
Proven Point
Don't forget with those redonkulous builds, they also like to pile on on one person. Like a swarm of locusts.

Maybe the code for the gamemode could be released and someone else work on it?
Title: Re: DTV: The Blocking Bots
Post by: Uther Pendragon on January 05, 2013, 04:53:27 am
You want to know what will happen if bots will become able to block? Just go and take a look at NordInvasion  :D

People there aren't crying because of bots being able to block, chamber, feint so fast that even Phase would faint from the speed, they just use an old, forgotten in cRPG and apparently WORKING strategy: TEAMWORK.

There are no solo heroes there, even guys with best equipment, highest level and helluva-long range weapons eventually need to cooperate with other players to succeed. One thing that DTV and NI have in common, is that reward depends on survivability of players and teamwork (I know NI rewards more for kills, but still)

You want to dominate in DTV? Keep bots on range, don't let them attack you at once (keep them in line, for example), have a long weapon and hard-hitting build.
You want to dominate in NordInvasion? Work together with other players, build barricades, TEAMWAAK :D

So, if you'd ever consider improving DTV again, give us some barricades and, if you could, make bots able to attack them, instead of just ignoring and getting stuck. Would be lovely :)
Title: Re: DTV: The Blocking Bots
Post by: Miley on January 05, 2013, 05:15:30 am
Umm it's not like we keep beating the game mode. Why don't you just go ahead and change them back to SUCKY BLOCKING please.
Title: Re: DTV: The Blocking Bots
Post by: Jarlek on January 05, 2013, 06:09:02 am
You want to know what will happen if bots will become able to block? Just go and take a look at NordInvasion  :D

People there aren't crying because of bots being able to block, chamber, feint so fast that even Phase would faint from the speed, they just use an old, forgotten in cRPG and apparently WORKING strategy: TEAMWORK.

There are no solo heroes there, even guys with best equipment, highest level and helluva-long range weapons eventually need to cooperate with other players to succeed. One thing that DTV and NI have in common, is that reward depends on survivability of players and teamwork (I know NI rewards more for kills, but still)

You want to dominate in DTV? Keep bots on range, don't let them attack you at once (keep them in line, for example), have a long weapon and hard-hitting build.
You want to dominate in NordInvasion? Work together with other players, build barricades, TEAMWAAK :D

So, if you'd ever consider improving DTV again, give us some barricades and, if you could, make bots able to attack them, instead of just ignoring and getting stuck. Would be lovely :)
TL;DR:
LET US USE THE GODDAMN BADASS CATAPULTS AND SHIT THAT YOU MADE FOR THIS MOD!
Title: Re: DTV: The Blocking Bots
Post by: Kelugarn on January 05, 2013, 07:18:56 am
TL;DR:
LET US USE THE GODDAMN BADASS CATAPULTS AND SHIT THAT YOU MADE FOR THIS MOD!

Indeed, once we're able to fire catapults into the masses of bots to one shot 6 at a time I will know true happiness.
Title: Re: DTV: The Blocking Bots
Post by: Apsod on January 05, 2013, 08:10:06 am
You want to know what will happen if bots will become able to block? Just go and take a look at NordInvasion  :D

People there aren't crying because of bots being able to block, chamber, feint so fast that even Phase would faint from the speed, they just use an old, forgotten in cRPG and apparently WORKING strategy: TEAMWORK.

There are no solo heroes there, even guys with best equipment, highest level and helluva-long range weapons eventually need to cooperate with other players to succeed. One thing that DTV and NI have in common, is that reward depends on survivability of players and teamwork (I know NI rewards more for kills, but still)

You want to dominate in DTV? Keep bots on range, don't let them attack you at once (keep them in line, for example), have a long weapon and hard-hitting build.
You want to dominate in NordInvasion? Work together with other players, build barricades, TEAMWAAK :D

So, if you'd ever consider improving DTV again, give us some barricades and, if you could, make bots able to attack them, instead of just ignoring and getting stuck. Would be lovely :)
In NordInvasion shield are over twice as good and can also be repaired, which is the reason why shield walls work so great there. Now that I think about it though, here in cRPG people can get 13 shield skill which makes shields unable to break. If some players would dedicate their accounts to be a shielder, then it might work.
Title: Re: DTV: The Blocking Bots
Post by: BADPLAYER_old2 on January 05, 2013, 09:34:47 am
DTV was awesome when it was Defend The Village, there was only a few maps and anyone who "abused" the AI by going to unreachable places got banned on them.
It forced people to use teamwork making shield walls with long polearms, mauls and ranged behind and other cool things.

DTV now days is get bots stuck on a fence and Have Fun.
Title: Re: DTV: The Blocking Bots
Post by: Pejlaen on January 05, 2013, 01:04:22 pm
In NordInvasion shield are over twice as good and can also be repaired, which is the reason why shield walls work so great there. Now that I think about it though, here in cRPG people can get 13 shield skill which makes shields unable to break. If some players would dedicate their accounts to be a shielder, then it might work.

First time I went to DTV there honestly were dedicated shielders with nothing but shield-skill. It was amazing teamwork.
Title: Re: DTV: The Blocking Bots
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on January 05, 2013, 01:13:51 pm
DTV was awesome when it was Defend The Village, there was only a few maps and anyone who "abused" the AI by going to unreachable places got banned on them.
It forced people to use teamwork making shield walls with long polearms, mauls and ranged behind and other cool things.

DTV now days is get bots stuck on a fence and Have Fun.
Fixed.
Title: Re: DTV: The Blocking Bots
Post by: Uther Pendragon on January 05, 2013, 03:24:06 pm
In NordInvasion shield are over twice as good and can also be repaired, which is the reason why shield walls work so great there. Now that I think about it though, here in cRPG people can get 13 shield skill which makes shields unable to break. If some players would dedicate their accounts to be a shielder, then it might work.

There were quite a few dedicated shielders once upon a time, but guess what happened?
Players from the homo rushus nobrainus tribe decided, that going forward at bots and hoping they'll feel fear from our numbers and back off like normal players would do, is a good plan!
Who cares it didn't worked 999 times? Maybe the 1000th will be the charm?  :P
Title: Re: DTV: The Blocking Bots
Post by: BenonKnight on January 05, 2013, 09:22:03 pm
There are still good shielders but you are right, not much. I dont like NI because of its exp character build system, and not differential equipment. Also bots are too less differential.