cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Apollo on December 25, 2012, 06:45:16 am

Title: Current Archery Nerfs
Post by: Apollo on December 25, 2012, 06:45:16 am
Is that athletics nerf to wpf still present within the game, or did they take it out when they made arrows heavier?
Title: Re: Current Archery Nerfs
Post by: GuiKa on December 25, 2012, 08:07:48 am
They took it out and made arrows heavier.
Title: Re: Current Archery Nerfs
Post by: Adalwulf on December 25, 2012, 09:59:38 am
PD wpf loss formula is changed as well. Higher PD should now be more viable.

Hense why I have 0 atheletics now and all in PD and PS....archery...the 1 class that always changes....
Title: Re: Current Archery Nerfs
Post by: GuiKa on December 25, 2012, 10:06:27 am
PD wpf loss formula is changed as well. Higher PD should now be more viable.

Really ? I always loved the idea of strength based archers who act like some sort of immobile artillery with high range, not the actual c-rpg style which relay on kitting and close shooting.

Is something like 27/12 viable now ?

9 PD
6 PS
4 ATH
4 WM
138 archery

With longbow/bodkin  and  a 0 slot hammer.

I want to shoot from long range (high missile speed) and rely more on good battle positioning than the ability to kite my enemies.
The 6 PS is mainly to pick up a 2h somewhere on the battlefield and kill foes with it when someone's coming or you're out of ammos. You don't really need wpf to melee, 0 is enough for everything.
Title: Re: Current Archery Nerfs
Post by: agweber on December 26, 2012, 09:51:47 pm
This is how much WPF you lose now per Power Draw.
9 PD = 105.3
10 PD = 111.0
11 PD = 113.5
12 PD = 111.3
13 PD = 102.6
Is something like 27/12 viable now ?
9 PD
138 archery

Maxed archery with 9 PD = 33 wpf. Doesn't seem very fixed.

Minimax higher PD builds, for example (These have all points into stats, max PD, max WM, and about 3 or 4 remaining skill points.
39/3 with 13 PD and 1 WM is going to be capable of 116 - 102.6 = 13 wpf.
36/6 with 12 PD and 2 WM is going to be capable of 123 - 111.3 = 12 wpf.
33/9 with 11 PD and 3 WM is going to be capable of 130 - 113.5 = 16 wpf.
30/12 with 10 PD and 4 WM is going to be capable of 138 - 111 = 27 wpf.
27/15 with 9 PD and 5 WM is going to be capable of 146 - 105.3 = 41 wpf.

Are we just aiming on  being above 0 here?

Edit: Bonus lvl 31 build, 42/3 with 14 PD and 0 WM (NO other skills) with 113 - 84.8 = 28 wpf
Title: Re: Current Archery Nerfs
Post by: Dezilagel on December 26, 2012, 10:01:34 pm
Lv 34

Strength: 45
Agility: 3
Hit points: 80
Skills to attributes: 18

Athletics: 1
Power Draw: 15
Weapon Master: 1

Archery: 126

I-WIN build  :P
Title: Re: Current Archery Nerfs
Post by: Adamar on December 26, 2012, 10:16:04 pm
Lv 34

Strength: 45
Agility: 3
Hit points: 80
Skills to attributes: 18

Athletics: 1
Power Draw: 15
Weapon Master: 1

Archery: 126

I-WIN build  :P

If you're planning to only hit stuff at short range you'd be better with a polearm or something.
Title: Re: Current Archery Nerfs
Post by: Belatu on December 26, 2012, 10:17:31 pm
.
Title: Re: Current Archery Nerfs
Post by: Dezilagel on December 26, 2012, 10:26:35 pm
If you're planning to only hit stuff at short range you'd be better with a polearm or something.

Look at the wpf reduction curve. That build will get you way more wpf than most comparable str archer builds.
Title: Re: Current Archery Nerfs
Post by: Froto_the_Loc on December 26, 2012, 10:57:35 pm
Lv 34

Strength: 45
Agility: 3
Hit points: 80
Skills to attributes: 18

Athletics: 1
Power Draw: 15
Weapon Master: 1

Archery: 126

I-WIN build  :P
What the hell? 15 powerdraw? Who thought this was a good idea?!
Title: Re: Current Archery Nerfs
Post by: ObiWanKejoshi on December 27, 2012, 12:30:36 pm
Unless this restriction has been removed when i wasn't looking, there is currently no bow that can use more than 10 PD (difficulty + 4)
Title: Re: Current Archery Nerfs
Post by: Kafein on December 27, 2012, 05:49:26 pm
Unless this restriction has been removed when i wasn't looking, there is currently no bow that can use more than 10 PD (difficulty + 4)

All PD over the bow's limit would still count to decrease the wpf penalty.

A level 34 archery build with PD 6 or 7 would have a much better battlefield value anyway.
Title: Re: Current Archery Nerfs
Post by: agweber on December 27, 2012, 10:11:41 pm
PD 4 over bow requirement is not calculated. So 15 PD is not really viable.
Way to say exactly the same thing as 2 posts above yours.

Are we sure this is still in with the since the recent kiting nerfs?
Title: Re: Current Archery Nerfs
Post by: Boss_Awesome on December 27, 2012, 10:32:07 pm
PD 4 over bow requirement is not calculated. So 15 PD is not really viable.

The +4 power draw limitation related to bow requirement is only for damage done, not for power draw WPF reduction, so a 15 PD build is actually pretty viable.  Much much better than any other strength archery build. 
Title: Re: Current Archery Nerfs
Post by: agweber on December 28, 2012, 06:47:35 am
The +4 power draw limitation related to bow requirement is only for damage done, not for power draw WPF reduction, so a 15 PD build is actually pretty viable.  Much much better than any other strength archery build.

So instead of losing the ~1-2% damage and accuracy bonus from stacked WPF, you lose the 14% damage per level over +4. Still doesn't seem worth it in the slightest. Tincan siege arrows are pretty much not going to be able to happen. I still think archery is over-nerfed and extremely unvariable.
Title: Re: Current Archery Nerfs
Post by: Templar_Steevee on December 28, 2012, 12:48:42 pm
IMO at present best archer builds are with 5 or 6 pd (depends what bow you like) and it's better to be more accurate and a bit faster, than have a little bit more dmg.

I still think archery is over-nerfed

Over-nerfed, probably, but I'm still able to be almost on the top of scoreboard and kill many enemies. Try to get accostumed to it, it's not so hard...
Title: Re: Current Archery Nerfs
Post by: Arrowblood on December 28, 2012, 02:38:01 pm
All old Archers do still well so its fine.
Title: Re: Current Archery Nerfs
Post by: agweber on December 28, 2012, 04:58:23 pm
...and extremely unvariable.

How many different viable archery builds are there that can top the scoreboard?
Title: Re: Current Archery Nerfs
Post by: ObiWanKejoshi on December 28, 2012, 09:27:01 pm
Other than the standard 18/21 build, i actually like 21/18 with 4 PS 7 PD 6 Ath/WM and 150 Archery WPF, 50 1H WPF (55 1H WPF and 7 PS on lvl 31). I'm currently using that build with a Rus bow, 1 stack of Bodkins and any 1H weapon. It's pretty nice since most people don't expect an archer to actually hit hard with melee weapons. Obvious drawbacks are the slightly reduced accuracy and the reduced amount of arrows you can carry.
I don't really top the scoreboard with this build, but I'm frequently in the upper third.

I've also tried 30/9 with 10 PD 7 PS 3 Ath/WM and 130 Archery WPF with my STF char, but haven't played it enough decide if it's viable for more than a few rounds. One thing i did notice though is the reduced draw speed.
Title: Re: Current Archery Nerfs
Post by: Adamar on December 28, 2012, 10:51:23 pm
All old Archers do still well so its fine.

No.
Title: Re: Current Archery Nerfs
Post by: Arrowblood on December 29, 2012, 01:02:11 am
No.
I dont even see you playing atm  :D
Title: Re: Current Archery Nerfs
Post by: Templar_Steevee on December 30, 2012, 11:04:06 am
How many different viable archery builds are there that can top the scoreboard?

For archer it's really hard to top scoreboard with current pointing system. Easist way to get to top is beeing a shielder or cav (imo especially 1h+shield), but I topped before I make a retirement :)

I'm not one of the best c-rpg archers, so almost every archer can be deadly when he will think a bit :P
Title: Re: Current Archery Nerfs
Post by: Elindor on January 02, 2013, 05:54:07 pm
Can someone sumarize the latest archery changes?
Title: Re: Current Archery Nerfs
Post by: Adamar on January 02, 2013, 06:14:32 pm
Slower movement speed and slightly slower arrows, I think.
Title: Re: Current Archery Nerfs
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on January 02, 2013, 07:46:09 pm
Can someone sumarize the latest archery changes?
Archery was made slightly less gay.  :)
Title: Re: Current Archery Nerfs
Post by: bigsean on January 03, 2013, 11:41:31 pm
A high AGI archer is less viable now, more than 3 points in ath won't help much unless you drop your bow and run. Best to have a high STR archer, more damage but you sacrifice some accuracy. I think increasing arrow weight is just a bandaid fix, it completely crushes pure archers and even if this is intended (which is dumb), you have a bunch of people with heirloomed longbows and rusbows who are forced to rework their gear and attributes with no free respec. I also think the weakest arrows weighing the most is the dumbest thing ever. I used to choose tatar vs bodkin based on the general armor of players in the server, if I wanted to target horses or archers, etc. Now it's just bodkins all day er' day since they weigh the least.
Title: Re: Current Archery Nerfs
Post by: Templar_Steevee on January 04, 2013, 02:33:35 am
I think increasing arrow weight is just a bandaid fix, it completely crushes pure archers and even if this is intended (which is dumb), you have a bunch of people with heirloomed longbows and rusbows who are forced to rework their gear and attributes with no free respec.

I can't agree with you. Pure archers are still deadly, with my bulit from lvl 28. Higher lvl is better, but it's normal. Good archers like Arrowblood, Nebun, Bagge, Blackbow, JohanE (or whathever to write it, sorry, if i make a mistake), Tiborur, some other good archers and even me have no problem to kill lot's of ppl.

Only thing to do is change your playstyle a bit. No more kitting, so you have to put more attention on positioning yourself, not going wildly with melee. Just think more about what are you going to do...
Title: Re: Current Archery Nerfs
Post by: Adamar on January 04, 2013, 05:05:36 am
I can't agree with you. Pure archers are still deadly, with my bulit from lvl 28. Higher lvl is better, but it's normal. Good archers like Arrowblood, Nebun, Bagge, Blackbow, JohanE (or whathever to write it, sorry, if i make a mistake), Tiborur, some other good archers and even me have no problem to kill lot's of ppl.

Only thing to do is change your playstyle a bit. No more kitting, so you have to put more attention on positioning yourself, not going wildly with melee. Just think more about what are you going to do...

...also, if you're the kind of archer who wears armor, drop it, or you'll be the slowest crap in game. And it's now higly unlikely that anyone new will stick to the class. GJ chadz.
Title: Re: Current Archery Nerfs
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on January 04, 2013, 06:47:36 am
Yes, you only benefit from up to Power Draw 10 (if you are using the difficulty 6 bows, less if not). But due to the wpf curve, 15 power draw has LESS of a penalty than 10 powerdraw does. So you have the same damage but less wpf penalty.

But with 3 agi you are kinda fucked if a cav looks at you wrong.
Title: Re: Current Archery Nerfs
Post by: Templar_Steevee on January 04, 2013, 01:03:35 pm
...also, if you're the kind of archer who wears armor, drop it, or you'll be the slowest crap in game. And it's now higly unlikely that anyone new will stick to the class. GJ chadz.

I am wearing armor with total weigth at border of wpf penalty wich is 10. That's true that I'm slow like turtle and I can't run out from almost anyone with 5 ath (maybe from some str cruschers). If you still want to be an archer you have to get accostumed to it like other archers do.
All old Archers do still well so its fine.
I can add only one to this sentecnce: good archers.

Maybe you just fougth that you were good and only thing wich lets you to own ppl were kitting?

Lots players GTXted from beeing an archer because of this nerf and change their profession. You want to be almost unreachable from melee - go HA or more gay HX or just get accostumed to changes like after every patch archers have to, because olmost every one is nerfing archery in some way.
Title: Re: Current Archery Nerfs
Post by: Adamar on January 04, 2013, 06:44:10 pm
Personaly I had medium armor and a mace, precisely so I could fight ppl in melee as bad as it was. Was I a bad archer for doing that? Did I require a nerf? You gotta stop excusing this Steevee.

I feel like someone needs to be punished for what's been happening around here, not the gameplay.
Title: Re: Current Archery Nerfs
Post by: Templar_Steevee on January 04, 2013, 08:22:05 pm
I just can't handle pll whining around archery all the time.

I'm sorry if I insult you, but you are making choice how you want to play. IMO archer hybrid is not good.
Title: Re: Current Archery Nerfs
Post by: Adamar on January 04, 2013, 10:57:49 pm
I just can't handle pll whining around archery all the time.

That's what got us in this situation.

I'm sorry if I insult you, but you are making choice how you want to play. IMO archer hybrid is not good.

See, that's the problem. Bow weilding peasant shouldn't be the best build, it should be the other way around to keep ppl from kiting.
Title: Re: Current Archery Nerfs
Post by: LordBerenger on January 04, 2013, 11:02:48 pm
A high AGI archer is less viable now, more than 3 points in ath won't help much unless you drop your bow and run. Best to have a high STR archer, more damage but you sacrifice some accuracy. I think increasing arrow weight is just a bandaid fix, it completely crushes pure archers and even if this is intended (which is dumb), you have a bunch of people with heirloomed longbows and rusbows who are forced to rework their gear and attributes with no free respec. I also think the weakest arrows weighing the most is the dumbest thing ever. I used to choose tatar vs bodkin based on the general armor of players in the server, if I wanted to target horses or archers, etc. Now it's just bodkins all day er' day since they weigh the least.

~Idlewild