cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Ujin on December 20, 2012, 02:53:05 pm

Title: Cataphract horse vs Large Warhorse vs War Horse balance
Post by: Ujin on December 20, 2012, 02:53:05 pm
This has been brought up before


Cataphract Horse
hit points: 120
body armor: 47
difficulty: 5
speed: 38
maneuver: 40
charge: 38
Price : 44.711

War Horse

hit points: 120
body armor: 40
difficulty: 5
speed: 41
maneuver: 41
charge: 36
Price : 33.248

Large Warhorse
hit points: 130
body armor: 43
difficulty: 5
speed: 40
maneuver: 41
charge: 36

Price: 35.196

So, for roughly 10k higher price, cataphract is inferior to large warhorse in speed, manouver, hit points and only has 2 more charge (nothing drastic) and 4 more body armor. Makes picking a cataphract over most of the other heavy horses because of it's stats (and not because of the style) a rather irrational choice.

Now i won't lie , i'm lobbying for a horse i myself am using. But it's a justified request, the stats are way off.
I suggest either improving cata's armor up to 50-52 (next horse,charger, has 58. compare this jump of stats to large warhorse vs cata) OR improving (+1) it's manouverability and speed OR a minor buff to stats + a slightly reduced price.

Either way , some changes should be made simply because as it is now, the balance between this 3 horses is non-existent.
Title: Re: Chataphract horse vs Large Warhorse vs War Horse balance
Post by: Razzer on December 20, 2012, 03:21:51 pm
hate cav
Title: Re: Chataphract horse vs Large Warhorse vs War Horse balance
Post by: Miwiw on December 20, 2012, 03:28:47 pm
dont nerf the warhorses tho, rather give the cata a small buff as it already got high upkeep costs.
Title: Re: Chataphract horse vs Large Warhorse vs War Horse balance
Post by: Gurnisson on December 20, 2012, 03:29:44 pm
There's a reason I have used a champ war horse and a champ large warhorse and never a champ cata. Cata is awful for the increased price. A small buff might be good for balance.

Ujin, you'll find both those horses +3 in the armory if there's no cata buff :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Chataphract horse vs Large Warhorse vs War Horse balance
Post by: Torben on December 20, 2012, 03:31:18 pm
as a courser rider,  I wholeheartedly agree.  imo,  we are missing an armored arabian warhorse,  would be nice to fill that niche with the cata
Title: Re: Chataphract horse vs Large Warhorse vs War Horse balance
Post by: Royans on December 20, 2012, 03:54:41 pm
Indeed, would be fair, to give a small buff to that poor cataphract! Well no one is using it nowadays, most of ppl use the warhorse, which is in my opinion one of the best heavy horse actualy... can even outspeed some light cav :|
Title: Re: Chataphract horse vs Large Warhorse vs War Horse balance
Post by: oprah_winfrey on December 20, 2012, 03:56:19 pm
One thing that isn't listed on the stats is the horse model. The cata is lower to the ground, and thus better for 1h/2h cav. Though I agree it should get a small buff.
Title: Re: Chataphract horse vs Large Warhorse vs War Horse balance
Post by: Leshma on December 20, 2012, 04:06:30 pm
As proud owner of the most beautiful horse in whole Calradia, I fully support this.

In my opinion, buff isn't necessary. Just lower the price by 30%.
Title: Re: Cataphract horse vs Large Warhorse vs War Horse balance
Post by: Mr_Oujamaflip on December 20, 2012, 05:05:13 pm
Also what's the deal with Destriers doing so much bump damage when armoured horses don't do that much more, nerf destrier bump damage and buff armoured horse bump.
Title: Re: Cataphract horse vs Large Warhorse vs War Horse balance
Post by: Overdriven on December 20, 2012, 05:06:54 pm
Cataphract horse has more style. If you want to look good and can't afford a Mamluk horse then the Cata is a good one to go for. A buff would be nice.
Title: Re: Cataphract horse vs Large Warhorse vs War Horse balance
Post by: Leshma on December 20, 2012, 05:10:00 pm
Also what's the deal with Destriers doing so much bump damage when armoured horses don't do that much more, nerf destrier bump damage and buff armoured horse bump.

Speed rating. Combined with high charge damage, it makes destrier more deadly at full speed than many armored horses.
Title: Re: Cataphract horse vs Large Warhorse vs War Horse balance
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on December 20, 2012, 05:10:04 pm
The extra charge isn't even that big a deal, due to the armored horses being so slow they're actually pretty bad, a destrier or maybe the warhorse is the best horse for bump damage due to the speed.
Title: Re: Cataphract horse vs Large Warhorse vs War Horse balance
Post by: Torben on December 20, 2012, 05:13:46 pm
The extra charge isn't even that big a deal, due to the armored horses being so slow they're actually pretty bad, a destrier or maybe the warhorse is the best horse for bump damage due to the speed.

A well informed statement by a true gentleman.
Title: Re: Chataphract horse vs Large Warhorse vs War Horse balance
Post by: Leshma on December 20, 2012, 05:16:19 pm
One thing that isn't listed on the stats is the horse model. The cata is lower to the ground, and thus better for 1h/2h cav. Though I agree it should get a small buff.

Correct, but that's not all.

Seems to me that bump area is bigger than horse models which means that super huge horses have huge advantage when it comes to bumping. Especially Large Warhorse. Extremely hard to avoid, if it doesn't knock you over it will interrupt your attack/block for example.

Almost a year ago I've started telling people that Large Warhorse has by far, the best stats in mod. Almost twelve months later I see rest of this community realising that fact. People are slow, but sooner than later they find out how things work.
Title: Re: Cataphract horse vs Large Warhorse vs War Horse balance
Post by: BADPLAYER_old2 on December 20, 2012, 06:21:53 pm
Nerf the warhorses, the Cataphract doesn't need a buff it is really good already just the warhorses are better and OP(Used a cataphract for 11~ gens).
Title: Re: Cataphract horse vs Large Warhorse vs War Horse balance
Post by: Kafein on December 20, 2012, 06:41:26 pm
All those armored horses have the agility of boats. I think the cataphract should get a maneuver buff.
Title: Re: Cataphract horse vs Large Warhorse vs War Horse balance
Post by: Mr_Oujamaflip on December 20, 2012, 08:20:30 pm
I actually quite like the idea of that Leshma, the armoured horses should be more like tanks.

I figure if I'm going to 1v1 a horseman with a sword if it's an armoured horse I should die 90% of the time unless I have a pike, this just isn't the case. I've 1 shot plated chargers with my katana before and yet most unarmoured horses can take 2+ hits unless I get it spot on. Maybe make the unarmoured horses were cheaper, weaker with lower requirements but the armoured horses buffed.
Title: Re: Cataphract horse vs Large Warhorse vs War Horse balance
Post by: BADPLAYER_old2 on December 20, 2012, 10:54:53 pm
I figure if I'm going to 1v1 a horseman with a sword if it's an armoured horse I should die 90% of the time unless I have a pike, this just isn't the case. I've 1 shot plated chargers with my katana before and yet most unarmoured horses can take 2+ hits unless I get it spot on. Maybe make the unarmoured horses were cheaper, weaker with lower requirements but the armoured horses buffed.

The least fun thing in the game is bad cavalry killing you on armoured horses because you hit their horses and it didn't die and their swing went through and hits you.
Armoured horses are already REALLY OVERPOWERED do not buff them please, nerf them if anything and maybe reduce gold cost a little if you nerf them.

(I have played heavy cavalry probably more than anyone else in this mod so I know exactly what I am talking about, it is ridiculously easy and anyone who uses an armoured horse and wants them buffed is either really bad or stupid, probably a combination of both)
Title: Re: Cataphract horse vs Large Warhorse vs War Horse balance
Post by: Ujin on December 20, 2012, 11:38:35 pm
This topic is about internal balance between 3 horses, please leave your buff/nerf cav discussions for someplace else.
Title: Re: Cataphract horse vs Large Warhorse vs War Horse balance
Post by: Ujin on December 23, 2012, 10:19:25 pm
bump (no pun intended) . either reduce the cata's price significantly or improve it's stats please.
Title: Re: Cataphract horse vs Large Warhorse vs War Horse balance
Post by: Rebelyell on December 26, 2012, 03:37:40 pm
its sad because no one really care,
but isnt that hores supersmall now?
Title: Re: Cataphract horse vs Large Warhorse vs War Horse balance
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on December 27, 2012, 08:58:49 pm
As someone who rides a courser I always thought the cataphract sucked balls.  The only armored horse I'd realistically ride would be the war horse.  But I think the Destrier is overall better at doing what the armored horses do.

Only 3 horses I'd ride in crpg are destrier, courser, and arabian.
Title: Re: Cataphract horse vs Large Warhorse vs War Horse balance
Post by: Ujin on January 18, 2013, 03:41:53 pm
up
Title: Re: Cataphract horse vs Large Warhorse vs War Horse balance
Post by: Ujin on February 25, 2013, 06:05:56 pm
1
Title: Re: Cataphract horse vs Large Warhorse vs War Horse balance
Post by: Rebelyell on February 25, 2013, 06:15:03 pm
NECRO BUMP
 
it's pointless to discuss here because no one give single flying fuck about that part of forum.... sadly
Title: Re: Cataphract horse vs Large Warhorse vs War Horse balance
Post by: Ronin on March 01, 2013, 12:59:33 pm
+1 to manuever would be decentish I guess.
Title: Re: Cataphract horse vs Large Warhorse vs War Horse balance
Post by: Ujin on March 05, 2013, 01:17:11 pm
bump! please just give the catas either +1 speed or +1 manouver , they need some love !  The new eastern horse can have the same since it's copying cata's stats .
Title: Re: Cataphract horse vs Large Warhorse vs War Horse balance
Post by: Torben on March 05, 2013, 01:22:36 pm
well at least the cata isnt alone in balance purgatory anymore  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Cataphract horse vs Large Warhorse vs War Horse balance
Post by: Ronin on March 05, 2013, 01:44:08 pm
Now barded warhorse and padded warhorse are brought up to the table too.