cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Tomas on December 19, 2012, 01:47:48 am
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For arrows we distinguish between arrow heads that were designed for armour penetration and arrow heads that weren't. This is despite all the arrow heads being pointier than nearly all of the piercing polearms. Why therefore do we not do the same for polearms?
I propose that the following weapon thrusts be re-designated as "cut"
Scythe, Boar Spear, Shortened Spear, Fauchard, Bamboo Spear, Great Lance, Spear, Light Lance, Long Voulge, Hafted Blade, Lance, Pike, Long Spear, Red Tassel Spear, War Spear, Long Bardiche, Double Sided Lance, Ashwood Pike, Long Hafted Blade, Partisan, Heavy Lance, English Bill, Swiss Halberd, Glaive & Great Long Bardiche
This change combined with an appropriate damage re-balance should return spears to their true role of being mainly anti cav or anti light infantry weapons, whilst increasing the importance and value of the polearms that were designed to pierce armour such as the Awlpike and the Poleaxe.
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How about no?
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I propose that the following weapon thrusts be re-designated as "cut"
Scythe, Boar Spear, Shortened Spear, Fauchard, Bamboo Spear, Great Lance, Spear, Light Lance, Long Voulge, Hafted Blade, Lance, Pike, Long Spear, Red Tassel Spear, War Spear, Long Bardiche, Double Sided Lance, Ashwood Pike, Long Hafted Blade, Partisan, Heavy Lance, English Bill, Swiss Halberd, Glaive & Great Long Bardiche
You cant be serious? The polearms without red would be okay and realistic ... but more than the half ... just .... NO!
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You cant be serious? The polearms without red would be okay and realistic ... but more than the half ... just .... NO!
I say, those you kept black + the glaive would make sense.
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Keep in mind that cut stabs do not rear horses. Also, no.
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Most spear & pike pole arms have miserable 3-direction swing attacks damage, and you want to render the remaining direction into cut?
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I propose that the following weapon thrusts be re-designated as "cut"
Boar Spear, Shortened Spear, Bamboo Spear, Great Lance, Spear, Light Lance, Lance, Pike, Long Spear, Red Tassel Spear, War Spear, Double Sided Lance, Ashwood Pike, Heavy Lance, English Bill, Swiss Halberd, Glaive
These look pretty damn pointy to me.
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Have you ever looked at the fauchard model? visitors can't see pics , please register or login
...that spike looks pretty penetrating to me...
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Wait.. what?! Can kind of see where you are going though but changing it to cut would probably make them a lot worse, and afaik they dont need nerfs..
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These look pretty damn pointy to me.
And Arrows, Barbed Arrows and Tatar Arrows look pretty pointy to me so your point is? (no pun intended :D)
Have you ever looked at the fauchard model? visitors can't see pics , please register or login
...that spike looks pretty penetrating to me...
Looks pretty useless to me. Neither spike is in line with the haft and so getting any kind of penetration from them would be extremely difficult. I see what you mean though and maybe Fauchard should remain pierce.
Wait.. what?! Can kind of see where you are going though but changing it to cut would probably make them a lot worse, and afaik they dont need nerfs..
Its not about needing nerfs, its about diversity of weapons and balance. Right now all the thrusting polearms are pretty much the same except for length and damage and for me that's boring. Creating some diversity would be good imo as then we'd have cheaper thrusting polearms for use against peasants/ninjas and the more expensive polearms for use against armour.
Keep in mind that cut stabs do not rear horses. Also, no.
This I didn't know and if true then the idea isn't possible :(
Most spear & pike pole arms have miserable 3-direction swing attacks damage, and you want to render the remaining direction into cut?
Just looked and the shorter spears have stupidly low swing damage and should be buffed anyway regardless of this idea. Quarter Staff = 19 Blunt Damage, Boar Spear = only 16 Blunt Damage despite being much heavier and slightly longer. Why swing damage isn't at least roughly proportional to weight I have no idea - but that is another topic.
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And Arrows, Barbed Arrows and Tatar Arrows look pretty pointy to me so your point is? (no pun intended :D)
Point is they were nerfed due to intense QQ. SO go round up ALL 2handers and archers, convince them all your right, then maybe you have enough QQ power to get an almost entire weapon class nerfed.
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Its not about needing nerfs, its about diversity of weapons and balance. Right now all the thrusting polearms are pretty much the same except for length and damage and for me that's boring. Creating some diversity would be good imo as then we'd have cheaper thrusting polearms for use against peasants/ninjas and the more expensive polearms for use against armour.
Diversity? Make all lances cut creates diversity? All longer support weapons cut? Making all hoplite weapons cut weapons does as well? If you wanted diversity you would suggest maybe one weapon of each type having a high cut damage instead of pierce, not all in the same catagory...
Also, you suggested to change Partisan which has a high cut thrust already.
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Also, you suggested to change Partisan which has a high cut thrust already.
Doesn't this just support my argument?
As for the rest is the Long Awlpike not a reasonably long support weapon?
Won't lances being high cut damage finally solve the Lancer QQing about peasants surviving lance hits when tincans get one hit?
Do the Military and Battle Forks not count as piercing Hoplite Weapons? (This one is a genuine question as i don't know if they are un-useable with Shields like the Awlpike)
The point here is not to arbitrarily pick some weapons to change, this is how item balance has worked for too long imo and it just leads to mass lobbying, QQing for change and endless whine. Changes should be made for specific reasons and once made the changes should be applied to all items of a similar design.
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Doesn't this just support my argument?
I like variety, but your suggestion of changing pretty much all polearms to a cut thrust is a joke.
As for the rest is the Long Awlpike not a reasonably long support weapon?
Not a typical pike weapon. Having both pike and long spear cut would be silly. Considering they're very different already, you wouldn't need to change their damage type to get some variety. Also, heavy horses would be really op with almost all polearms having cut damage on the thrust. No rearing and terrible damage. :wink:
Won't lances being high cut damage finally solve the Lancer QQing about peasants surviving lance hits when tincans get one hit?
The question is, why all lances (don't count the practice lance, its damage is laughable)? Could accept one of the lances being high cut, but all of them doesn't make sense when you say you're after some diversity.
Do the Military and Battle Forks not count as piercing Hoplite Weapons? (This one is a genuine question as i don't know if they are un-useable with Shields like the Awlpike)
They're useable but the very short. Military fork can't even rear horses.
The point here is not to arbitrarily pick some weapons to change, this is how item balance has worked for too long imo and it just leads to mass lobbying, QQing for change and endless whine. Changes should be made for specific reasons and once made the changes should be applied to all items of a similar design.
No thanks.
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This change combined with an appropriate damage re-balance should return spears to their true role of being mainly anti cav
Keep in mind that cut stabs do not rear horses. Also, no.
I think this is basically the thread.
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I propose that the following weapon thrusts be re-designated as "cut"
Scythe, Boar Spear, Shortened Spear, Fauchard, Bamboo Spear, Great Lance, Spear, Light Lance, Long Voulge, Hafted Blade, Lance, Pike, Long Spear, Red Tassel Spear, War Spear, Long Bardiche, Double Sided Lance, Ashwood Pike, Long Hafted Blade, Partisan, Heavy Lance, English Bill, Swiss Halberd, Glaive & Great Long Bardiche
As other people have already said, your proposed changes would actually be a gigantic buff to cav. You would be better off trying to stop them with a Pitchfork, Trident, or Military scythe (pierce damage thrust) than you would with a Long Spear, and none of the weapons that would retain a pierce damage thrust would be able to outreach a Great Lance or Heavy Lance unless the rider has terrible position/timing.
This change combined with an appropriate damage re-balance should return spears to their true role of being mainly anti cav or anti light infantry weapons, whilst increasing the importance and value of the polearms that were designed to pierce armour such as the Awlpike and the Poleaxe.
The Awlpike isn't used much these days not because of its stats but because the turn speed change made two-directional polearms, which were already not the most popular choice out there, comparatively weak relative to other weapon classes. The Poleaxe doesn't need any increase to its "importance and value"; it's one of the most commonly used and heirloomed four-directional polearms.
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This change combined with an appropriate damage re-balance should return spears to their true role of being mainly anti cav or anti light infantry weapons, whilst increasing the importance and value of the polearms that were designed to pierce armour such as the Awlpike and the Poleaxe.
Seeing as their true role was being the main weapon of choice for any melee army ever, I'd say spears don't have that good a spot already, considering their 'true role'.