cRPG

Strategus => Strategus General Discussion => Topic started by: Haboe on December 12, 2012, 10:55:39 pm

Title: Suggestion: permanent gear
Post by: Haboe on December 12, 2012, 10:55:39 pm
You gain gear (by buying, trading, finding or whatever) and you can always keep it, never lose.
It will be hard to obtain, and you cannot transfer it to other players.

Result: military power will be depending on tickets, and player effort on gaining himself gear. A faction with 30 members will be twice as strong as a faction of 15 members. (currently a 30 man faction will have more fiefs, more gold more gear more tickets, so will be more then twice as strong, taking that they are both as active and skilled).

I just thought of it, didn't think it through myself yet, but posted anyway to see what y'all think about it.
Will it make strat more balanced, more fun or more fair to smaller factions?


Discuss
Title: Re: Suggestion: permanent gear
Post by: Segd on December 13, 2012, 08:33:12 am
It would be nice to always have my mw arbalest, but it will also fucks the entire strat system :(

but at least there would be no more whining about equip :)
Title: Re: Suggestion: permanent gear
Post by: chadz on December 13, 2012, 09:35:42 am
Not entirely uninteresting.
Title: Re: Suggestion: permanent gear
Post by: Molly on December 13, 2012, 09:45:23 am
Wouldn't that mean that you run around after a battle with equipment for 1000 men and only having tickets for 1? How is the moving speed then? Does equipment still count as weight? Or is equipment growing automatic with every soldier tick you gain?
Title: Re: Suggestion: permanent gear
Post by: BASNAK on December 13, 2012, 09:46:44 am
A 60 man faction will be double as strong as a 30 man faction, and a 120 man faction will be double as strong as the 60 man faction. Resulting in people grinding more members?

What this game needs is more smaller factions, not fewer factions with more players.
Title: Re: Suggestion: permanent gear
Post by: Noctivagant on December 13, 2012, 12:19:13 pm
A faction with 30 members will be twice as strong as a faction of 15 members

No, this is what we exactly stand against anyway. 2x150 member faction alliance = eternal domination
Title: Re: Suggestion: permanent gear
Post by: Pentecost on December 13, 2012, 12:38:52 pm
I like the current system much more than the crafting business in Strat 3, but I wouldn't be opposed to a mechanic that would allow you to acquire permanent, non-tradable gear for only your own character.

The main gripe I have with how acquiring gear in Strategus currently works is that it's centered around armies rather than individuals. If I want to use the weapons and armor I like in normal cRPG and not be stuck with some Kuyak clownsuit and an axe that I've never used before, I need to acquire a fief, hold it, and then spend weeks or months of production points improving those items. This is virtually impossible to accomplish without joining some mega alliance or becoming the vassal of a superpower faction.

How I see something like this could be implemented: Allow people to buy, improve, and repair permanent gear for their character only with Strategus Ticks from the weapons window while on the world map. Improvement and repair cost would be proportional to the cost of the item, and repair frequency would be a direct function of how heavily the gear has been used in a battle.

So if you died 27 times and only used your Lordly Archon's Armor and Mighty Mace on four of those deaths, then it should lose 1 heirloom level. If you died 27 times and used your Lordly Milanese Plate and Masterwork Danish Greatsword on all 27 deaths, then it should lose 4 or 5 heirloom levels. If you died 27 times and did not use your own gear at all, then it should lose no heirloom levels and cost you nothing.
Title: Re: Suggestion: permanent gear
Post by: Segd on December 13, 2012, 12:52:20 pm
I like the Dota 2 system:
After each battle you could randomly get an permanent item. Some items are common, some rare(lite crossbow, arbalest).
You could also trade items that you don't use.

Using this system on Strat:
Ppl will play a lot more battles(if every 100vs100 could give you your precious mw cudgel). No more roster problems.
Even fighting for the peasant army won't be so boring & spawnrapy as it is now when you will have your favorite turban great long axe.
Did you get cudgel? Get\trade second one & make Commoner's cudgel! Collect 4 for Elder's cudgel!

Also % of drop could be slightly based upon you performance

This system won't hurt current Stat economics since items would be rare & won't make huge impact to the battle results, but will bring more interest to the Strategus.
Title: Re: Suggestion: permanent gear
Post by: kinngrimm on December 13, 2012, 03:08:51 pm
If we would go into this direction then perhaps allow the cRPG gear we have loomed for ourselves to be used within strategus as alternative.
Either use your own gear or the gear provided by the party engaged in a battle.
If you use your own gear from cRPG, as you there get time based strategus tickets, you use them up also timebased in strategus battles by using cRPG equipment, while still using strat ticks also for recruiting troops.

Now either the party provides gear, or if not the player can decide to use his own gear to the cost also to his own strategus tickets.
Title: Re: Suggestion: permanent gear
Post by: chadz on December 13, 2012, 03:11:03 pm
I must say I like Segd's idea. Sounds fun. And might really help with battle attendance.
Title: Re: Suggestion: permanent gear
Post by: Haboe on December 13, 2012, 03:17:22 pm
A 60 man faction will be double as strong as a 30 man faction, and a 120 man faction will be double as strong as the 60 man faction. Resulting in people grinding more members?

What this game needs is more smaller factions, not fewer factions with more players.

I think that new system will make the situation better.
As the current system encourages big clans to pile up equipment, and the small clans have no chance vs that gear. If your equipment is based on your own effort only, a player from a 5 man clan can have an army as strong as a player of a 100 man faction.

I haven't though this system through yet, so will likely have big holes in it, but thougth it might be interesting ;)

Therefore:
Wouldn't that mean that you run around after a battle with equipment for 1000 men and only having tickets for 1? How is the moving speed then? Does equipment still count as weight? Or is equipment growing automatic with every soldier tick you gain?

No idea yet, think no weight could be a solution
Title: Re: Suggestion: permanent gear
Post by: kinngrimm on December 13, 2012, 04:52:11 pm
(click to show/hide)
I guess you think this to have it plus the ordinary stacked/bought equipment bought?
Permanent gear also would then mean that you can use it with every spawn without loosing fear of running out of it?
If this is combined with also buying gear, the equipment bug which appears when you have a shitload of different item stacks needs to be resolved first, so you would always be able to choose it.

@chadz, having to organize your equipment, making gold to buy it and then taking care of organizing the purchases, is quite time demanding but not a bad thing, if the way of purchase would be a bit streamlined.  A settings tab, where you would choose the gear you would want to equip by default for your complete faction(or as single player too) which then allows you also to set a loom lvl. Then when entering a fief and you go onto the Purchase tab for gear you only get a selection to choose from the gear you actually want to equip. By that then equiping armies would be speed up a lot. Also the transferring of stuff from one guy to another with 2 columns, where you would be able to switch positions between 2 guys instantly without the need to wait till the other one would be online(*sigh* i know the problems involved there) so that someone could really make the equipment for someone else.
Title: Re: Suggestion: permanent gear
Post by: Tomas on December 13, 2012, 05:59:32 pm
Equipment buying should work like the free equip.

You pick the items and the percentages you want and then when you start a battle the correct number of each item appears just for that fight.  Your troop upkeep should then scale according to the average level of equip you are using.

Only siege equipment should have to be bought and you can tie it into Fiefs using an upgrade system. E.g. you can only upgrade to or increase your percentage of +3 Heraldic Mail in a fief that makes +3 Heraldic Mail.
Title: Re: Suggestion: permanent gear
Post by: dodnet on December 13, 2012, 07:32:35 pm
I must say I like Segd's idea. Sounds fun. And might really help with battle attendance.

+
Title: Re: Suggestion: permanent gear
Post by: KingBread on December 13, 2012, 10:27:07 pm
+
+
It seems great
Title: Re: Suggestion: permanent gear
Post by: Visconti on December 13, 2012, 10:55:15 pm
I like the Dota 2 system:
After each battle you could randomly get an permanent item. Some items are common, some rare(lite crossbow, arbalest).
You could also trade items that you don't use.

Using this system on Strat:
Ppl will play a lot more battles(if every 100vs100 could give you your precious mw cudgel). No more roster problems.
Even fighting for the peasant army won't be so boring & spawnrapy as it is now when you will have your favorite turban great long axe.
Did you get cudgel? Get\trade second one & make Commoner's cudgel! Collect 4 for Elder's cudgel!

Also % of drop could be slightly based upon you performance

This system won't hurt current Stat economics since items would be rare & won't make huge impact to the battle results, but will bring more interest to the Strategus.

Idea sounds like alot of fun, but i wouldnt want to see people running around in a full suit of their own items, maybe just like weapons or something. One thing that makes strat so cool is that each team is wearing a uniform specific to the army they are fighting for, would hate to see that replaced with everyone using completely different stuff, making strat battles look just like the normal battle servers.
Title: Re: Suggestion: permanent gear
Post by: Boss_Awesome on December 14, 2012, 01:15:58 am
Permanent items sounds extremely lame.  Getting rid of the risk in games is what those crappy games like WoW or whatever do.  Eventually everyone has the same crap and fights become meaningless. 
Title: Re: Suggestion: permanent gear
Post by: Loki on December 14, 2012, 03:36:28 am
I like the Dota 2 system:
After each battle you could randomly get an permanent item. Some items are common, some rare(lite crossbow, arbalest).
You could also trade items that you don't use.

Using this system on Strat:
Ppl will play a lot more battles(if every 100vs100 could give you your precious mw cudgel). No more roster problems.
Even fighting for the peasant army won't be so boring & spawnrapy as it is now when you will have your favorite turban great long axe.
Did you get cudgel? Get\trade second one & make Commoner's cudgel! Collect 4 for Elder's cudgel!

Also % of drop could be slightly based upon you performance

This system won't hurt current Stat economics since items would be rare & won't make huge impact to the battle results, but will bring more interest to the Strategus.

My problem with this system is that it turns strategus into a grind for your favorite gear.  Imho this game is already far too much of a grind and this would make it even worse.

The FUN part about games is that you can win or lose.  Winning and losing should have consequences.  The more losing hurts the sweeter victory is.  Which is why games like World of Warcraft have no appeal to the thinking man.  Don't turn strategus into a kill 10 wolves quest.
Title: Re: Suggestion: permanent gear
Post by: Taser on December 14, 2012, 04:39:02 am
Idea sounds like alot of fun, but i wouldnt want to see people running around in a full suit of their own items, maybe just like weapons or something. One thing that makes strat so cool is that each team is wearing a uniform specific to the army they are fighting for, would hate to see that replaced with everyone using completely different stuff, making strat battles look just like the normal battle servers.

Weapons might be nice.

My problem with this system is that it turns strategus into a grind for your favorite gear.  Imho this game is already far too much of a grind and this would make it even worse.

The FUN part about games is that you can win or lose.  Winning and losing should have consequences.  The more losing hurts the sweeter victory is.  Which is why games like World of Warcraft have no appeal to the thinking man.  Don't turn strategus into a kill 10 wolves quest.

But ultimately this.

I like the idea that strat is completely separate from crpg and that we have to organize weapons and armors for armies otherwise you get steamrolled. I am aware I'm not involved in that organization since I'm a simple taser but having weapons and/or armor that stays with you forever no matter what is lame for strat.

Plz don't do dis.
Title: Re: Suggestion: permanent gear
Post by: Vovka on December 14, 2012, 08:29:43 am
Ppl will play a lot more battles(if every 100vs100 could give you your precious mw cudgel). No more roster problems.
Smell 100vs100 battles in prime time for farm shit XD
 And alot 100vs100 with 1vs1 man roster for farm shit in midle of the night  :P
Title: Re: Suggestion: permanent gear
Post by: chadz on December 14, 2012, 09:04:06 am
My problem with this system is that it turns strategus into a grind for your favorite gear.  Imho this game is already far too much of a grind and this would make it even worse.

The FUN part about games is that you can win or lose.  Winning and losing should have consequences.  The more losing hurts the sweeter victory is.  Which is why games like World of Warcraft have no appeal to the thinking man.  Don't turn strategus into a kill 10 wolves quest.

What I would consider fun in this is that it's a separate trading game for the players. The persistant items would probably never be many enough to skip equipment buying completely. However, the fact that you will get random items mean that you have to trade with others to achieve what you want. And this could be interesting, might lead to players being more active as individuals, and help with the long term fun for individuals.

It might even increase the strat experience as a whole, blackmailing for items, etc etc.
Title: Re: Suggestion: permanent gear
Post by: KingBread on December 14, 2012, 09:23:59 am
Permanent items seems super cool. It's not that you will get one mw axe and you can spawn with it allways but you can spawn with it ONCE in every battle. So you can try to get more of them and if they will be rare enought this system will never overcome normal eq buying. I think this collector mode will add a lot of fun to strat.

Also reduce preparation phase for small battles and full rosters for every random battle
Title: Re: Suggestion: permanent gear
Post by: Molly on December 14, 2012, 10:54:56 am
[...] And this could be interesting, might lead to players being more active as individuals, and help with the long term fun for individuals.

[...]
As individual - I do not belong to any faction except my own - I can tell you from my experience that there is no fun for individuals/solo players. As soon as you step out of a town there is somebody waiting to attack you. And then there is the roster: as a solo player there is barely a chance to get a proper roster if attacked by some faction dude. I got lucky since I know a few people to talk to for help and know how to make a fuzz about it... solo players don't enjoy Strat, that is my conclusion from checking the battles from time to time. Either you group up with someone or you don't play it.
There is something that should be improved...

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Suggestion: permanent gear
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on December 14, 2012, 07:35:32 pm
Permanent items sounds extremely lame.  Getting rid of the risk in games is what those crappy games like WoW or whatever do.  Eventually everyone has the same crap and fights become meaningless.

Yeah that's the problem I don't like with suggestions (although on paper they sound interesting).

That's the main reason I don't like MMO games, is because people collect pixel crack with no fear of ever losing it.  That's why games like Ultima Online were so cool, was because it was risk vs reward.  You had to decide if putting on your best gear to fight high level NPC's was worth the risk of getting ganked by a Player Killer, or dying to the NPC and having someone steal the loot on your body. 

And I literally just heard of the MMO "Darkfall" yesterday, I was pretty pissed to know that there's an MMO with loot drop/sand box and I didn't know about it.  I know about EVE online, but I can't get into sci-fi type space games.
Title: Re: Suggestion: permanent gear
Post by: Dach on December 14, 2012, 09:26:34 pm
Yeah that's the problem I don't like with suggestions (although on paper they sound interesting).

That's the main reason I don't like MMO games, is because people collect pixel crack with no fear of ever losing it.  That's why games like Ultima Online were so cool, was because it was risk vs reward.  You had to decide if putting on your best gear to fight high level NPC's was worth the risk of getting ganked by a Player Killer, or dying to the NPC and having someone steal the loot on your body. 

And I literally just heard of the MMO "Darkfall" yesterday, I was pretty pissed to know that there's an MMO with loot drop/sand box and I didn't know about it.  I know about EVE online, but I can't get into sci-fi type space games.

In EVE it's even worse... when someone kill you, half your stuff get destroyed for ever... half drop for the other to loot.  8-)
Title: Re: Suggestion: permanent gear
Post by: BADPLAYER_old2 on December 15, 2012, 09:27:08 am
I like the idea of permanent items but I don't think they should be as useful as described here, otherwise what happens when a dude gets say a Mamluk? Being able to use something so expensive for every life for free is just stupid and unbalanced, not to mention what happens 2-3months into strat when everyone has items and a new player wants to start out, it would make it even harder for them to get on battle rosters than it already is now since they have no permanent gear and they can't get on the roster so they can't get the gear they need to be on the roster ect.

I have few ideas about how it could be added but not made unbalanced-


1. When you lead an army, after a battle has been declared you can choose to put a certain amount of gold in "merc payment" and this will be shown on the battle tab and stuff, and what it does is whenever someone during the battle uses their permanent equipment instead of gear you bought for them it subtracts it from there at the cost of what the gear would be like to buy with no discounts.

I think this would be pretty cool for smaller factions who don't have a good selection of gear so they could ask for mercs to bring their own, and of course you could just put 0gold into merc payment and everyone would have to use the items you bought for them.


2. Group items by weight class when buying, so for example you could have "peasant armour, archery armour, light armour, medium armour, heavy armour, plate armour"
And say you bought a +3 Cavalry Robe from your fief and it is classed as "light armour", during a battle anybody could use the cavalry robe like normal, but if they had a +3 Lamellar Vest they could use that instead and it would count as using the cav robe in everything but looks (i.e it would use same stats so people wouldn't just min max buy cheapest armour in each type then try get the heaviest in each type for themself)


3. Your ticket count x50(or any number really) is how much gold each merc has to use on their own gear, for example you have 1000troops = 50k gold, if someone has a Heavy Kuyak that means they can use it 6times before they don't have enough gold left to use it anymore, someone with transitional would be able to use it twice ect.


My ideas are probably pretty bad but I mainly just wanted to post to say how I think it needs some limits rather than just "get +3 armoured horse and plate, proceed to get 10:1 kdrs every battle" but i'm sure a good solution can be found since it's a cool idea.
Title: Re: Suggestion: permanent gear
Post by: kinngrimm on December 15, 2012, 10:48:31 am
They need to be rare(drop/break/loose chances), to be able to be traded and someone who wants to use his own stuff needs to pay for it either with his own gold or strategus tickets or renown or a combination of those. implementing another indicator like Idle mentioned possible but i'd rather see the existing once put to better use.
Title: Re: Suggestion: permanent gear
Post by: Loki on December 15, 2012, 12:09:36 pm
What I would consider fun in this is that it's a separate trading game for the players. The persistant items would probably never be many enough to skip equipment buying completely. However, the fact that you will get random items mean that you have to trade with others to achieve what you want. And this could be interesting, might lead to players being more active as individuals, and help with the long term fun for individuals.

It might even increase the strat experience as a whole, blackmailing for items, etc etc.

Remove the current heirloom system, add random heirloomed items in strategus that you can then use in c-rpg and trade them using the current system. This would get more people interested in strat but not ruin it.