cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Rumblood on December 11, 2012, 05:46:42 pm
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We know about the desire of some players to revert turn speed nerf. I don't agree with that, but I do think that overheads need to be adjusted.
The problem: It simply isn't fast enough to use for the risk incurred when even slower players can simply sidestep it instead of blocking. Then while you are thumping the ground, they side slash and you are dead. It is nearly as dangerous as a missed kick.
So, I suggest speeding up the animation or whatever it takes. Leave a window open for blocking, of course. But a sidestep should take a high athletics and skilled player or the attacker simply being bad to avoid it without blocking.
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Overhead has a good chance to hit someone in the head, high damage. Only natural that there is a higher risk on that attack then.
I think overheads are fine as they are.
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left/right swings have a high chance to hit the head too, assuming you aren't bad and are aiming your swing correctly.
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I suggest a third option : nerfing the acceleration on sidesteps. The top speed is fine, but the fact that you can instantly reach it is retarded considering the game is supposed to represent humans.
Also, most overheads swings miss because they are too fast and do not stay long enough in their active state IMO.
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I suggest a third option : nerfing the acceleration on sidesteps. The top speed is fine, but the fact that you can instantly reach it is retarded considering the game is supposed to represent humans.
Also, most overheads swings miss because they are too fast and do not stay long enough in their active state IMO.
I'd say the game is slow enought already.
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The only reason overheads seem slow is because everyone turns into their sideswings now, effectively rendering the "speed" stat meaningless. In fact, the main reason 2h is so immensely popular is that you can perform this hiltslash maneuver on both sideswing directions, whereas 1h can only do it on left swings and pole can only do it on right swings (otherwise you glance).
They should severely reduce the damage early in all swing animations, but increase the overall combat speed. This is both more realistic and puts an end to these stupid squaredance fights that are all you see now. This would make overheads more common as well.
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Yeah the speed is appropriate, they're already fast enough.
I dunno, happy you're trying to give it some love though. The only legitimate reason I've heard to not revert the turnspeed nerf on overheads is wiggly mauls.
Fucking stupid mauls.
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I suggest a third option : nerfing the acceleration on sidesteps. The top speed is fine, but the fact that you can instantly reach it is retarded considering the game is supposed to represent humans.
Sorry but this I must -1.
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Faster overheads leave less time to adjust, which will mainly only worsen the problem of not being able to hit sidestepping players. Most overheads are not done with perfect aim at the start of the animation. I don't see how this is a more desirable change then the removal or reduction of the turn speed nerf.
I suggest a third option : nerfing the acceleration on sidesteps. The top speed is fine, but the fact that you can instantly reach it is retarded considering the game is supposed to represent humans.
This is not at all the case, perhaps only for naked 1h without shield. Nerfing the acceleration would be the last straw and would kill the combat system forever. You wouldnt be able to avoid kicks, fight multiple enemies or generally use footwork. I don't believe you would actually want that.
The only reason overheads seem slow is because everyone turns into their sideswings now, effectively rendering the "speed" stat meaningless. In fact, the main reason 2h is so immensely popular is that you can perform this hiltslash maneuver on both sideswing directions, whereas 1h can only do it on left swings and pole can only do it on right swings (otherwise you glance).
They should severely reduce the damage early in all swing animations, but increase the overall combat speed. This is both more realistic and puts an end to these stupid squaredance fights that are all you see now. This would make overheads more common as well.
Seems the concept of a 'hiltslash' is widening everyday. A proper hiltslash can only be done with a left then right swing combo, with both polearms and 2h. You can occasionally spam with other combinations, but that is not really a hiltslash as much as bad footwork on your opponents part. Longswords are retarded when it comes to hiltslashing though.
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Only 1h overhead because it's strange (only for shiedless infantry, shielders don't deserve overhead buff). Twohanded and polearm overhead shouldn't be buffed, because it's already too strong (especially 2H overhead).
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Yeah the speed is appropriate, they're already fast enough.
I dunno, happy you're trying to give it some love though. The only legitimate reason I've heard to not revert the turnspeed nerf on overheads is wiggly mauls.
Fucking stupid mauls.
Yeah, that's why the overhead speed nerf should affect lighter weapons less. But I dont know if it's possible for the system to make such distinctions.
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Seems the concept of a 'hiltslash' is widening everyday.
The definition of the hiltslash "concept" is up for debate, but when in doubt, I defer to the name for the meaning. I say it's any time someone "slashes" with the "hilt" of their weapon, i.e. turn into the swing to do full damage so early in the animation that it appears as if there was no swing at all. Obviously this maneuver is one element in a variety of combinations that allow for double hitting or spam or whatever you want to call it, but you might have a hard time convincing people that slashing with one's hilt isn't hiltslashing.
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Only 1h overhead because it's strange (only for shiedless infantry, shielders don't deserve overhead buff). Twohanded and polearm overhead shouldn't be buffed, because it's already too strong (especially 2H overhead).
I dunno, 1h overhead seems plenty good to me in relation to the others. I know I use it a ton on my short 1h since it has a decent range bonus and decent speed (aka better than right swing)
I think speeding it up might be nice to avoid spam, but it won't be fixing anything. You're still going to have to turn towards your opponent and release with a reduced turning rate mid-swing.
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I dunno, 1h overhead seems plenty good to me in relation to the others. I know I use it a ton on my short 1h since it has a decent range bonus and decent speed (aka better than right swing)
Someone (maybe you or Rusty) suggested aiming 1h overheads not by turning, but by strafing, and I've had decent success landing overheads after implementing this adjustment. Like you said, it's better than the 1h right swing, so you have to mix it in sometimes (everyone sees a 1h and instinctively blocks right). Overheads are still suicide against a competent 2h user with a Miaodao or faster, because they can turn into a sideswing and hit you before the overhead lands. But it's a solid tool against your typical Strength greatsword user wearing transitional.
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Someone (maybe you or Rusty) suggested aiming 1h overheads not by turning, but by strafing
Think it was rusty. I do it myself, and it makes it a lot easier.
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The definition of the hiltslash "concept" is up for debate, but when in doubt, I defer to the name for the meaning. I say it's any time someone "slashes" with the "hilt" of their weapon, i.e. turn into the swing to do full damage so early in the animation that it appears as if there was no swing at all. Obviously this maneuver is one element in a variety of combinations that allow for double hitting or spam or whatever you want to call it, but you might have a hard time convincing people that slashing with one's hilt isn't hiltslashing.
I am pretty sure everyone associates hilt slashing with the double swing that teeth is talking about.
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This is not at all the case, perhaps only for naked 1h without shield. Nerfing the acceleration would be the last straw and would kill the combat system forever. You wouldnt be able to avoid kicks, fight multiple enemies or generally use footwork. I don't believe you would actually want that.
Honestly I'm sick of squaredance fighting and how random it is. What all the long weapon dancers love to label "footwork" I call bullshit. I must be the only one or something.
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I am pretty sure everyone associates hilt slashing with the double swing that teeth is talking about.
So what would you call the isolated maneuver (turning into swing to hit before the animation even starts) that precludes most people from attempting overheads? There is nothing you can do (besides falling I guess) to hit earlier in the overhead animation, but someone can counter your overhead by quickly slashing you with the hilt of their weapon before your overhead can land.
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Yeah, we've all had plenty of time to adjust to the system. 1h shield has been the most effective playstyle for me since the change, even using an iron mace for shits and giggles. Done hoplite, 2h, 1h, xbow, archer, and thrower gens since the change, and I feel that polearms got hit the hardest, since they have weak and predictable animations already.
I know what you mean though, overheading with a nordic champion sword, and an italian falchion are two completely different things haha.
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Terrible idea imo. I can barely survive anything already when 1hs/katana/longswordsmappers do overhead swings/feints. Same with mauls. That I have time to react. Man, currently its good. I for one am seriuslly happy that the overheads are slower than other attacks. Cause getting hit by a overhead takes craploads of HP + blocking overhead is also always slightly tougher than blocking in any other direction.
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On 2h and polearms, landing an overhead can be a death sentence for your target. Your risk getting your blade stuck in the dirt for a second. It's not underpowered at all, and plenty fast.
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arguments made only apply to dualling, and not toward group battle perspective. gl to the guy who starts side swinging in a clusterfuck.
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Aiming your overheads by strafing works right up until you run into somebody with considerably more ath than yourself. It's also a surefire way to get in the way of teammates in a packed group fight.
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overhead is much much harder to block than side swings if you are behind or next to an opponent.
So yes overhead is slower and riskier but it has good reach,is harder to block and higher damage.