cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Shaksie on December 06, 2012, 10:41:58 am
-
Feast your eyes upon the stats;
Goedendag
Type:Two handed weapon
Requirement:10 strength
Weight:2.5
Slots:2
Upkeep:262 gold
Shop price:3,749 gold
Value:1,875 gold
Speed:95
Length:117
Thrust:22 pierce
Swing:25 blunt
Knockdown
Highland Claymore
Type:Two handed weapon
Requirement:16 strength
Weight:3
Slots:2
Upkeep:899 gold
Shop price:12,857 gold
Value:6,429 gold
Speed:92
Length:117
Thrust:22 pierce
Swing:43 cut
Secondary mode
Two Handed Sword
weapon length: 110
weight: 2
difficulty: 12
speed rating: 96
weapon length: 110
thrust damage: 22 pierce
swing damage: 38 cut
slots: 2
Can't use on horseback
Secondary Mode
Poleaxe SECONDARY MODE, apologies but these may be incorrect
Type:Polearm
Requirement:17 strength
Weight:3
Slots:2
Upkeep:1,012 gold
Shop price:14,470 gold
Value:7,235 gold
Speed:87
Length:141
Thrust:31 pierce
Swing:31 blunt
Bonus against shield
Let me start off by saying I'm not trying to radically change the Goedendag's stats.
However, it becomes apparent that from seeing other weapon stats that the Goedendag does extremely weak damage.
Take the Highland Claymore's damage for instance; if a player of 24 strength (8 powerstrike), 146 wpf wearing 2 weight helmet, 11 body armor, 0.5 hand armor and 1.5 leg armor strikes an enemy of 45 body armor, they will deal 23-47 damage, achieving an average damage of 35.
However, if this same player hits an enemy with a 25b weapon (the Goedendag for example) it will deal a measly 17-30 damage, achieving an average of 23.5 This is the approximate damage ratio for a Goedendag to a significanlty more expensive, equal length cut weapon.
Take an equal speed weapon for example; the Two Handed Sword. This sword, wielded by the same character versus the same foe will achieve 20-42 damage, achieving an average damage of 31.
This sword also has an increased speed rating, further highlighting it's superiority.
The poleaxe also does significantly more damage, is longer and heavier plus this is the secondary mode, the other mode does even more damage, is only a fraction (in practice) slower than the Goedendag AND has bonus vs shield damage.
I don't believe the difference in prices (Goedendag being 3,749 and Two Handed Sword being 7,965) are fair. Moreover I believe this shows a lack in variety.
I plead of you, either buff the Goedendag or add a high-tier, non-unbalanced blunt (and piercing perhaps, there is an equal lack in those) for two handed weapons.
Possible item addition:
Long Battle Club
Price: ~11500
weapon length: 101
weight: 3.2
difficulty: 15
speed rating: 93
weapon length: 101
thrust damage: 21 blunt
swing damage: 31 blunt
slots: 2
Can't use on horseback
Knockdown
Other non-cut weapons would also be appreciated.
I also have various other ideas which I think it is appropriate to bring to light; a weapon not dissimilar to poleaxes could be introduced into the category two handed weapons.
I have done some serious pondering over this but I think this weapon could quite easily fit into the game;
German War Axe
weapon length: 101
weight: 2.7
difficulty: 16
speed rating: 90
weapon length: 101
thrust damage: 25 pierce
swing damage: 40 cut
slots: 2
Can't use on horseback
Bonus against shield
Secondary Mode
Secondary Mode stats:
speed rating: 87
thrust damage: 25 pierce
swing damage: 30 pierce
I tried to keep these stats as similar to that of the German Poleaxe but retaining typical two handed values.
To increase diversity; another weapon could be integrated:
Elegant War Axe
weapon length: 103
weight: 2.6
difficulty: 15
speed rating: 92
weapon length: 103
thrust damage: 24 pierce
swing damage: 38 cut
slots: 2
Can't use on horseback
Bonus against shield
Secondary Mode
Secondary Mode stats:
speed rating: 89
thrust damage: 24 pierce
swing damage: 30 blunt
I tried to keep these stats as similar to that of the Elegant Poleaxe but retaining typical two handed values.
Before you say "make models or stfu, I am currently working on attaining the knowledge to create these models myself. However it will probably take some time as clearly, I have never done this before. If someone were to step in and create some before me it would be greatly appreciated
Thank you for reading and I hope you seriously ponder the above topic :).
-
Stating the obvious (i know you mentioned it in your post) item request with no models = no chance.
But, since you want to make them yourself, try to get someone with experience to learn you the basics, saves you a lot of time and keeps you motivated ^^
Looking forward to your models :mrgreen:
-
Thank ye, honestly just cutting the bottom bit off the bottom of the aforementioned items and rescaling them to fit would work, not sure how to do the Long Battle Club though.
-
Goedendag is:
a) lower tier item
b) has knockdown (oh god, the knockdown)
c) has a very, very good speed to length ratio
It is somewhat underused atm, but, really, it is by no means a bad weapon, i've used it myself (and would use it a lot more if i could find someone who would trade me a +3 goedendag).
The weapon you're suggesting sounds rather OP, tbh - non-unbalanced 2h knockdown weapon with decent speed? ye gods...
-
Goedendag is:
a) lower tier item
b) has knockdown (oh god, the knockdown)
c) has a very, very good speed to length ratio
It is somewhat underused atm, but, really, it is by no means a bad weapon, i've used it myself (and would use it a lot more if i could find someone who would trade me a +3 goedendag).
The weapon you're suggesting sounds rather OP, tbh - non-unbalanced 2h knockdown weapon with decent speed? ye gods...
If the model is made, stats can be suggested and fine tuned around it surely?
-
Goedendag is:
a) lower tier item
b) has knockdown (oh god, the knockdown)
c) has a very, very good speed to length ratio
It is somewhat underused atm, but, really, it is by no means a bad weapon, i've used it myself (and would use it a lot more if i could find someone who would trade me a +3 goedendag).
The weapon you're suggesting sounds rather OP, tbh - non-unbalanced 2h knockdown weapon with decent speed? ye gods...
I know it is a lower tier item, I believe I indirectly referred to that :3.
Yes it is quite long and fast but the damage is horrid, I used it with 7 powerstrike and I rarely got the full blunt connection sounds which indicated a very low damage output.
The damage from Mace and Studded Warclub is worth the length penalty imo.
Also, this thread wasn't just about buffing the Goedendag nor adding a single item, I attempted to point out the lack of variation and choice between 2h weapons. I also feel that fast cut weapons (namely the Heavy Bastard Sword and Longsword) are a little overpowered.
If the model is made, stats can be suggested and fine tuned around it surely?
Indeed, these stats almost certainly won't be the final stats (should it be integrated) but I didn't think they were that bad tbh.
-
The goedendag is the only blunt weapon that uses two hand stab animation and on top of that its balanced. I had a +3 for a while and its a pretty sweet weapon imo.
-
If the model is made
/thread
Also the goedendag is OP by most definitions, being one the longest knockdown weapons in the game, and usable with a shield for surprisingly good results. Plus it has an extremely good stab.
-
Goegendag isn't OP. Greatsword/Miaodao/Longsword/HBS are the only OP twohanded weapons atm.
-
Goegendag isn't OP. Greatsword/Miaodao/Longsword/HBS are the only OP twohanded weapons atm.
Ha yes I forgot. Can't really say an above average weapon is OP when such beasts exist in the same category.
Although of course that doesn't mean the goedendag needs a buff.
-
Goedendag is fine. Besides the fac that looks awful.
-
The goede used to be the ultimate 2h of cRPG... ye olde times... Fu devs!
-
You fail to understand that the goedendag is a budget weapon. It's not supposed to compete with high tier 2handers.
I mean yes the damage is pretty low even though it's blunt. But there's also this thing called knockdown which gives you another free hit every now and then and also the possibility for an infinite knockdown-kick-knockdown-hit-... combo.
I own both a +3 claymore and a goedendag btw
-
Of all the 2handers. There are really no weapon that is fast that trades length for damage..
If you want hard hitting .. you always have to chose the toptier ones. That always has good length and slow speed.
The morningstar is the closest to this description, but still not there.
Im missing a fast,short,hardhitting as an option. Maybe an axe or mace.
Maybe a double bit axe?
-
I own both a +3 claymore and a goedendag btw
Give it to me :evil:
-
Of all the 2handers. There are really no weapon that is fast that trades length for damage..
If you want hard hitting .. you always have to chose the toptier ones. That always has good length and slow speed.
Masterwork Great Axe says hi.
-
I get the feeling the post has not been read completely.
You fail to understand that the goedendag is a budget weapon. It's not supposed to compete with high tier 2handers.
I mean yes the damage is pretty low even though it's blunt. But there's also this thing called knockdown which gives you another free hit every now and then and also the possibility for an infinite knockdown-kick-knockdown-hit-... combo.
I own both a +3 claymore and a goedendag btw
I know this... there is in fact a reason I said that there should be more variety; eg higher tier non cut balanced weapons with decent lengths and speeds. Read the entire thread or don't post please. I also said that I did not want to drastically change the stats of the Goedendag, I requested a filling of the gap that it viable non-cut type two handed weapons.
Also, I found the Goedendag in no way overpowered. Compared to the heavy bastard sword, it is significantly weaker and slower for a moderate price increase and a decrease in length.
-
If the poleaxes are shortened, they have to become unbalanced. It would not make sense to have the axes unbalanced, and the shortened poleaxes not.
Also, knockdown implies a heavy weapon, so be happy that goedendag and warclub have this good knockdown without being unbalanced. A balanced knockdown top tier weapon would be OP. The goedendag is actually kind of ridiculous already, because the silly spike makes you think you are at a safe distance, but then BAM, it knocks you down. Its reach is VERY hard to judge.
-
goedendag is flemish, it should be OP. fuck game balance, long live realism!
-
You mean OP like flemish giant rabbits: http://puppybunnyguineapretty.wordpress.com/2011/08/05/flemish-giant-rabbits/ ?
-
give +1 swing damage for goedendag
-
I'm not saying add these exact weapons; I'm saying there is a gap in the choices. Read the entire thread with your eye holes or don't post with your fingers.
-
Yeah, compared to the variety of polearm and even 1hand weapons, two-hand is definitely lacking. 3 non-ct blunt options, 1 pierce, and a ton of long high cut damage swords. There's a lot more that could be done for variety.
With the variables of speed, weight, length, and damage/damage type, there are an infinite number of things which could be done to make each weapon more unique. Like, why is there not a super long, super fast, medium weight extremely low damage two-hand? Things like that.
-
-
Where's the "2H OP 2STRONK NARF" option?
Also, why did you involve the poleaxe in a 2h balance discussion?
-
I did fine with the goedendag 3rd gen.
You need PS about 8 and you will get results. It is very budget but a good dueling weapon and reasonable against any foe.
In regards to new weapons I might have some in the pipeline.
Fast long blunt is practice longsword
Goedendag needs a polearm mode desperately.
-
Fast long blunt is practice longsword
Goedendag needs a polearm mode desperately.
I wasn't aware Practice Longsword was a high tier item.
-
was a joke.
chill
-
Look at the topic name plx.
-
Also, why did you involve the poleaxe in a 2h balance discussion?
To show that a high tier blunt weapon is not overpowered; despite the fact that Poleaxes blunt damage is their secondary mode, it is still very effective.
-
infinite knockdown-kick-knockdown-hit-... combo.
This made me cry myself to sleep once after duelling wayne for some time. The 95 speed with that length and the strong tendency to knockdown means that the goedendag is an extremely potent weapon for that price. It is also hilarious to use with a shield. 117 length 1h rightswing with knockdown, aww yeah.
-
It is ridiculously weak though and with a shield it is almost as slow as a throwing hammer in mid air.
-
It is ridiculously weak though
no
-
To show that a high tier blunt weapon is not overpowered; despite the fact that Poleaxes blunt damage is their secondary mode, it is still very effective.
The alt mode is OP and I think anyone who uses one would agree, 32blunt 90speed 140length knockdown and shieldbreaking on the other side? Yeah that is a pretty ridiculous weapon.
(I use a +3 poleaxe)
-
Goedendag is a really good weapon that could easily cost more; for its price it's excellent.
-
no
Versus the 28b from a Mace and 29b from Studded Warclub and 32b from Poleaxe, yes it is.
-
Versus the 28b from a Mace and 29b from Studded Warclub and 32b from Poleaxe, yes it is.
The mace is way too short. The studded warclub has a crappy thrust and the poleaxe is the objectification of overpoweredness on earth right now anyway. If you really want to start comparing weapons to the poleaxe, you can conclude that everything needs a buff.
-
The mace is way too short. The studded warclub has a crappy thrust and the poleaxe is the objectification of overpoweredness on earth right now anyway. If you really want to start comparing weapons to the poleaxe, you can conclude that everything needs a buff.
Read what I said you twat.
I said it is weak.
I have said there could be high tier blunt weapons.
Take your arguments elsewhere if you aren't going to address the relevent topics.
-
Read what I said you twat.
I said it is weak.
I have said there could be high tier blunt weapons.
Take your arguments elsewhere if you aren't going to address the relevent topics.
You are the one wanting to discuss only damage then proceeds to call a weapon that has everything else than damage "weak".
You are being irrelevant, not I.
-
Remove the knockdown, then you cant get a damage buff.
Or make it unbalanced and reduce the speed, then you can get a damage buff.
You see, that blunt damage may look low to yoiu, but against high armor it hits as hard as most greatswords, and it has knockdown.
-
The goadendag is the 2h version of staff/quarterstaff. Blunt knockdown, decent speed and reach, but bottom of the barrel damage and upkeep.
The poleaxes are top tier weapons, with cost to match. Despite their seemingly superior stats, you don't really see them much more often than any other weapon in battle and siege. They don't need a faster 2h counterpart.
Not really what the topic is about, but the studded warclub backs a little more oomph on side swings than the goadendag does. And it has knockdown and is balanced. Give it a try and yell HOME RUN every time you get a kill.
High tier blunt 2h exist, they are mauls. It's nice that they aren't stubby little clones of the polearms. I like that each weapon class has something unique to offer. You shouldn't "get it all" by investing your wpf into one thing.
-
Since noone is actually responding to the topic I'm going to lock this thread.
You are the one wanting to discuss only damage then proceeds to call a weapon that has everything else than damage "weak".
You are being irrelevant, not I.
Read the first post you cretin, for the last time I said that there are no 2h high tier non-cut weapons.