cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Siberian_Wolf on November 27, 2012, 04:09:36 pm

Title: Please remove chambering + hilt slashing
Post by: Siberian_Wolf on November 27, 2012, 04:09:36 pm
Removing this would increase the appeal of mount and blade. This would be a good feature.
Title: Re: Please remove chambering + hilt slashing
Post by: Tzar on November 27, 2012, 04:14:09 pm
No.
Title: Re: Please remove chambering + hilt slashing
Post by: Vibe on November 27, 2012, 04:15:44 pm
Removing this thread would increase the appeal of mount and blade.
Title: Re: Please remove chambering + hilt slashing
Post by: pepejul on November 27, 2012, 04:16:59 pm
If remove, PEPE delete all his alts...  :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Please remove chambering + hilt slashing
Post by: Shemaforash on November 27, 2012, 04:47:23 pm
Remove chambering? uhh... no
Title: Re: Please remove chambering + hilt slashing
Post by: cmp on November 27, 2012, 05:12:07 pm
You make a valid point. Chamber blocking is removed in next cRPG patch.
Title: Re: Please remove chambering + hilt slashing
Post by: Rumblood on November 27, 2012, 05:14:52 pm
The OP is infamy whoring.  :idea:
Title: Re: Please remove chambering + hilt slashing
Post by: Molly on November 27, 2012, 05:18:30 pm
You make a valid point. Chamber blocking is removed in next cRPG patch.
I am wondering... has there ever been an Overlord-post that wasn't dripping of sarcasm and irony? Like evaaah?

Not trolling, just wondering...  :wink:
Title: Re: Please remove chambering + hilt slashing
Post by: Fuma Kotaro on November 27, 2012, 06:12:09 pm
I am wondering... has there ever been an Overlord-post that wasn't dripping of sarcasm and irony? Like evaaah?

Not trolling, just wondering...  :wink:

A wild cmp doesn't troll!
Title: Re: Please remove chambering + hilt slashing
Post by: Siberian_Wolf on November 27, 2012, 06:17:45 pm
INFAMY, COME ONTO ME!

that wasn't intended to be a sexual innuendo
Title: Re: Please remove chambering + hilt slashing
Post by: [ptx] on November 27, 2012, 06:25:44 pm
You hurt my feelings, -ed :(
Title: Re: Please remove chambering + hilt slashing
Post by: rustyspoon on November 27, 2012, 07:12:05 pm
Please remove all pointy weapons. Someone could lose an eye.
Title: Re: Please remove chambering + hilt slashing
Post by: pepejul on November 27, 2012, 08:59:53 pm
I just succeded in my first chamber on purpose after 2 years playing..it's ok you can remove now.... tomorrow I will try to ...erh...how do say that ? Block ?...yep I will try to block and then you can also remove blocks ...  :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Please remove chambering + hilt slashing
Post by: Kafein on November 27, 2012, 09:57:52 pm
It's weird when someone wants to remove something (quite) difficult to pull off, very risky and with allmost no positive reward. What is even weirder is wanting to remove something super easy to do, with very limited risks and that gives you a free hit on people.
Title: Re: Please remove chambering + hilt slashing
Post by: Phew on November 29, 2012, 04:28:57 am
I dislike hiltslash because it makes fights look stupid. It's more effective to have your enemy be slightly behind your shoulder than in front of you, which is unrealistic. Hiltslashing should still work, but the damage should be reduced proportional to how early in the animation it hits.

I liken it to tennis; if you make contact with the ball in front of you, your racquet head speed is at a maximum and you impart a lot of energy to the ball. Sometimes you swing late with the ball close to you, and you don't get any depth on the shot. The cRPG implementation is the exact opposite of real-world physics.
Title: Re: Please remove chambering + hilt slashing
Post by: Uumdi on November 29, 2012, 04:47:33 am
Add pepper spray and rape whistles.
Title: Re: Please remove chambering + hilt slashing
Post by: Kafein on November 29, 2012, 05:11:41 pm
I dislike hiltslash because is makes fight looks stupid. It's more effective to have your enemy be slight behind your shoulder than in front of you, which is unrealistic. Hiltslashing should still work, but the damage should be reduced proportional to how early in the animation it hits.

I liken it to tennis; if you make contact with the ball in front of you, your racquet head speed is at a maximum and you impart a lot of energy to the ball. Sometime you swing late with the ball close to you, and you don't get any depth on the shot. The cRPG implementation is the exact opposite of real-world physics.

This.
Title: Re: Please remove chambering + hilt slashing
Post by: Spa_geh_tea on November 29, 2012, 06:19:18 pm
This.

Agrees
Title: Re: Please remove chambering + hilt slashing
Post by: Rumblood on November 30, 2012, 12:49:16 am
I dislike hiltslash because it makes fights look stupid. It's more effective to have your enemy be slightly behind your shoulder than in front of you, which is unrealistic. Hiltslashing should still work, but the damage should be reduced proportional to how early in the animation it hits.

Actually you are mistaken. It would be more effective with the current placement slightly behind your shoulder as you drag the entire length of the blade across the naked skin. However, an armored player should take 0 damage because you wont be cutting shit, no matter how long the blade you drag across it.
Title: Re: Please remove chambering + hilt slashing
Post by: Miley on November 30, 2012, 02:39:03 am
Oh man Siberian, you're farming the minus 1's aren't you x.x
Title: Re: Please remove chambering + hilt slashing
Post by: Butan on November 30, 2012, 06:25:15 am
Hiltslashing should still work, but the damage should be reduced proportional to how early in the animation it hits.


It already does...

There is a lot more chances the attack will glance / do low damage in the early part of the animation.



Not saying there isnt a "late" part of the hiltslash that doesnt give full damage, but then where begins the hiltslash, where begins the standard hit ? In cRPG it highly depends on your weapon animation and the PS you have.
Title: Re: Please remove chambering + hilt slashing
Post by: Kafein on November 30, 2012, 02:08:46 pm

It already does...

There is a lot more chances the attack will glance / do low damage in the early part of the animation.



Not saying there isnt a "late" part of the hiltslash that doesnt give full damage, but then where begins the hiltslash, where begins the standard hit ? In cRPG it highly depends on your weapon animation and the PS you have.

I'd say an attack is hiltslashing if you do the move (right swing + left facehug or the opposite) and the attack connects so early you are forcing your opponent to block twice in a row.

It's quite easy to tell the difference during gameplay, since hiltslashes have their own "island" of not-glancing, separated from the actual zone that makes sense. More clearly, if you turn into your swing at an hiltslash level, you won't bounce, but if you turn slightly less, you will glance and if you turn a lot less you will basically do a normal attack and it won't bounce either.

Actually you are mistaken. It would be more effective with the current placement slightly behind your shoulder as you drag the entire length of the blade across the naked skin. However, an armored player should take 0 damage because you wont be cutting shit, no matter how long the blade you drag across it.

In this game, we are using all blades in a very western way, aka nearly bashing people with them, not cutting. It makes sense with straight swords, but with the curved ones it looks retarded.
Title: Re: Please remove chambering + hilt slashing
Post by: Butan on November 30, 2012, 02:57:24 pm
I'd say an attack is hiltslashing if you do the move (right swing + left facehug or the opposite) and the attack connects so early you are forcing your opponent to block twice in a row.


If your enemy can do that, so can you; so if he can "pro" spam you, you need to try to enhance your style, aka : learning hiltslash too, mini-block+fast counter, chambers, better footwork, faster build/weapon, going in & out of range (the so called backpedalling and 180°)...
Everything that gives you an edge! Every tools that you are free to use in this game to become better!


The only argument I hear is : some of it looks stupid/unrealistic.

Tbh me too when I see some great "pro" moves being pulled, I dislike having to counter them, and do not like their "appearance", I dont use them and it makes me worse than I could be but I assume it. Like when your opponent looks to the ground so he can better conceal the weapons animations... sometimes they also feint/spam while being in stupid body angle position  :lol:


But I know better not to ask to remove them.

Why ?
Because if you do, you lessen the high skill ceiling of cRPG and switch to a too predictable (with the actual game speed) classic duel with two guys facing each other and looking themselves in the eyes. That would look "cool" but the average cRPG players would block 99.9% of the hits correctly and fights would never end in a 1v1.




I would be totally for "nerfing" the hilt slashing so the "island" you speak of is much much smaller or harder to reach (the point where you connect early with 100% damage); but you have to understand that if it totally disappeared, you would have only two cases : glance or normal hit. If you would glance totally everytime someone gets a bit in your way or your opponent moves to your side, not only offense would be bad, but defense too.
Without hiltslash there would be a dire need for a faster gamespeed too, for the reasons above.

As I see it, from my full STR point of view, in duels its one of the "lame" trick move you can use, its as good in offense as in defense (to counter a faster opponent's weapon or footwork), but its also one of the few trick one can still use against ganking. With turn speed nerf it already dented a lot of the berserker rage I liked a lot, if hilt slash was to disappear you would have totally 0 chance of fighting more than 2 guys properly face hugging you.
Would be kind of an indirect buff to agi because they could get around you so you glance and not them (which is already the case a bit... damn GTX always get me this way  :mrgreen: ) which would be actually fair in the actual situation where STR dominate  :D
Title: Re: Please remove chambering + hilt slashing
Post by: Phew on November 30, 2012, 03:25:24 pm
Speed up the combat, but make it so you actually have to roughly face someone to hurt them.

Both 2h sideswing animations have a 270 degree arc of death, which combined with lolstab, is why 2h makes up 60%+ of all melee damage now. That's three attack directions with exceptional killing power. 1h and pole each get one (left swing and right swing, respectively), with their other attack directions all having huge drawbacks. Overhead is basically the same for all weapon types (high risk/high reward), so that's basically a wash.
Title: Re: Please remove chambering + hilt slashing
Post by: Kafein on December 01, 2012, 12:00:35 pm
If your enemy can do that, so can you; so if he can "pro" spam you, you need to try to enhance your style, aka : learning hiltslash too, mini-block+fast counter, chambers, better footwork, faster build/weapon, going in & out of range (the so called backpedalling and 180°)...
Everything that gives you an edge! Every tools that you are free to use in this game to become better!

I know that. It's not that easy with 1h weapons though, as longer weapons will always dictate the fight.

I simply hate the fact that some weirdly-named "technique" that is basically just spam works, and I would rather see it replaced by something that isn't spam. I mean, I personally spend a lof of my ingame time killing people because they blocked the wrong way, or because they opened their guard at the wrong time, but I never ever attack directly after being blocked. The game isn't less interesting or skill-based for me, I have the feeling it is more, because I don't have this cookie-cutter move. M&B combat doesn't need hiltslashing to be skillbased. Narrowing the effective sweetspot of 2h and pole sideswing animations down to 1h levels would make them more skillbased too.

Title: Re: Please remove chambering + hilt slashing
Post by: Butan on December 01, 2012, 04:02:05 pm
I simply hate the fact that some weirdly-named "technique" that is basically just spam works


Dont you agree that there is spam and spam ?


When someone spams you because he is ignorant of the game, he is a newbie and needs to be taugh how to play.
When someone spams you because he is aware of the game, he bet on his speed/footwork and opponent weakness.



I do not share the pejorative concept of spam when its the late situation (still make me mad when I get spammed though).


Narrowing the effective sweetspot of 2h and pole sideswing animations down to 1h levels would make them more skillbased too.

Maybe not down to 1H level, but make it so its lenght based and not type of weapons based (this way a 2H and a 1H of the same lenght get the same sideswing hiltslash potential) and I would agree with you!
Title: Re: Please remove chambering + hilt slashing
Post by: Phew on December 01, 2012, 08:00:03 pm
Length based sounds good, and make it follow the laws of physics while you are at it. Acceleration during the swing is a function of moment of inertia, which would be roughly (1/3)(mL^2) for most weapons. So short, light weapons should do their rated damage earlier in the swing, but level off pretty fast. Meanwhile, long, heavy weapons would glance early in their animation, but deliver devastating damage late in the swing.

1h vs. pole vs. 2h animation shouldn't matter in the the damage vs. % of swing animation calculation, it should just follow the above formula for every weapon and swing direction. Thrusts would only be a function of mass, not length, since it is a near pure translation.

Proper implementation of physics in the combat system would improve balance and reduce frustration for everyone.