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cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Dravic on April 23, 2011, 11:37:42 am

Title: Crossbows buff - something different.
Post by: Dravic on April 23, 2011, 11:37:42 am
http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,165498.msg4018466.html#msg4018466 (http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,165498.msg4018466.html#msg4018466)

Last two posts.

To devs (mainly cmpx and his magic tool):

Could you do something, so wpf start increasing crossbows dmg? It would buff dedicated crossbowmen and make putting wpf in crossbows more appealing :D

It doesn't have to be a lot, but let's say 1 dmg point/20 wpf... would be awesome.
Title: Re: Crossbows buff - something different.
Post by: justme on April 23, 2011, 11:45:00 am
fair enough
Title: Re: Crossbows buff - something different.
Post by: Wulzzz on April 23, 2011, 11:48:34 am
1 dmg each 20 wpf?
Then a normal sniper xbow really would 1 hit anything.
And would make the smaller xbows OP too.

I still don't understand why dedicated xbowmen need to be more attractive.
You get really nice reload speed and accuracy for the high wpf.Damage is already good balanced.
Title: Re: Crossbows buff - something different.
Post by: Punisher on April 23, 2011, 11:59:59 am
Well first of all it's hardcoded so can't be implemented untill we get WSE, and that's definetly not happening this patch.

Second, the reason crossbow damage is so high (87p on MW Sniper) is that it doesn't scale with a skill like Power Draw for archery or with WPF. If WPF damage scaling would be implemented, the base damage will have to be reduced to compensate.
Title: Re: Crossbows buff - something different.
Post by: Tzar on April 23, 2011, 12:53:38 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


You just keep em comming xbow dont need a buff they all rdy dominate the game
Title: Re: Crossbows buff - something different.
Post by: Dravic on April 23, 2011, 01:00:54 pm
Stop posting your favourite game character pics.

It's not counter strike. It's Warband.

Well, everything to make crossbows more appealing. I'd say, if you give 1dmg/20 wpf, and decrease every xbow dmg by... let's say... 5.

75-5=70

if i get 180wpf

180:20=9

70+9=79

Fair enough.

Now mw sniper:

87-5=82

82+9=91

I don't see the problem.
Title: Re: Crossbows buff - something different.
Post by: justme on April 23, 2011, 01:04:30 pm
+1 for that

atm xbows are used often as shotgun... so again CS is involved
Title: Re: Crossbows buff - something different.
Post by: Wulzzz on April 23, 2011, 01:36:48 pm
A sounds more reasonable.
Already thought each 20 wpf you put in it.Would have been like 25 or what more damage  :oops:

But then again..100 wpf is not much and pretty easy to afford.And at 100+ wpf, it's just a xbow buff.And they simply don't need a damage buff.

Otherwise the next thought i have would be a complete redesign of xbows by adding a skill for xbows ..like power draw.
So you just gotta be a more or less dedicated xbower to use it somewhat effectively.
But 100% 1 shot 1 kill situation should be avoided too.
Title: Re: Crossbows buff - something different.
Post by: Dravic on April 23, 2011, 03:12:42 pm
Wulzz, everything, but not skill for xbows.


That would ruin a lot of builds for dedicated crossbowman (such as 15/27)
Title: Re: Crossbows buff - something different.
Post by: Wulzzz on April 23, 2011, 03:16:37 pm
Why not?
That way you have the chance to get kinda dedicated xbowmen and not "2h guy with a xbow"-men
Also it could be only done by adding it to a bigger patch and then reset all skills and wpf to adjust to the changes of that patch i guess.

EDIT:
Well..but that wont be possible with next patch anyway..
So people will have to decide at next patch already if they wanna go dedicated xbowman.
Title: Re: Crossbows buff - something different.
Post by: MadJackMcMad on April 23, 2011, 03:38:24 pm
Not a bad idea, but we will still need more bolts come the patch.
Title: Re: Crossbows buff - something different.
Post by: Goretooth on April 23, 2011, 04:00:44 pm
buffing xbows? wtf go play in traffic please.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7llLFbV97bs&feature=related
Title: Re: Crossbows buff - something different.
Post by: Gorath on April 23, 2011, 07:49:45 pm
Why not?
That way you have the chance to get kinda dedicated xbowmen and not "2h guy with a xbow"-men

Because "dedicated" x-bowmen suck ass.  Thrower or Archer are far better choices for pure ranged builds.  X-bows are good sidearms, terrible main weapons.  You can't reload on the run like bows/throwing so the ability to kite is gone unless you build some gimmicky crap with like 10+ athletics and run around naked.  X-bows are single-shot-in-the-chamber sniper weapons, Bows are machineguns and Throwing are shotguns.  One of these doesn't work as a "dedicated" weapon.
Title: Re: Crossbows buff - something different.
Post by: Wulzzz on April 23, 2011, 08:21:36 pm
It's just different.If you think it sucks ass then just go archer or thrower if you find it more attractive.

But sure dedicated xbowers is already a playable char if you adjust your gamestyle.
Terrible main weapon is really a bit exaggerated.You can move while aiming with your xbow and inflict high damage with little risk compared to bows and then reload again in cover(not so slow with high wpf..)
Title: Re: Crossbows buff - something different.
Post by: Gorath on April 23, 2011, 10:45:23 pm
It's just different.If you think it sucks ass then just go archer or thrower if you find it more attractive.

But sure dedicated xbowers is already a playable char if you adjust your gamestyle.
Terrible main weapon is really a bit exaggerated.You can move while aiming with your xbow and inflict high damage with little risk compared to bows and then reload again in cover(not so slow with high wpf..)

I have x-bow prof (130) and used it quite extensively.  It's a terrible "main" weapon simply because you MUST stop to reload.  Sure you can carry 3 x-bows and a bag for triple shooting, then spend 20 years reloading all 3 if you find cover, or if the person doesn't die you're just fucked.  Archers can jump-shot kite, throwers too, both can reload and ready another shot on the run, which while being "gay", allows them to be used as a main weapon.  X-bows do not have this which means once someone decides to come towards you there is no option other than:
1  Keep running and never reload which just draws the game out
2  Die
3  Fight in melee which means you're not a pure or dedicated x-bowman

Of all the ranged weaponry, x-bows are the ones designed as sidearms requiring melee weapon support.  Throwers can just keep running and tossin shit, picking up ammo off the ground without stopping.  Archers can too somewhat.  Even then, archers still generally require good melee to succeed.  Throwing doesn't require anything except ammo.
Title: Re: Crossbows buff - something different.
Post by: Dravic on April 23, 2011, 10:52:57 pm
Gorath, all you said is true.


Especially here:

Throwing doesn't require anything except ammo and luck,

... even personal (player's) skill.
Title: Re: Crossbows buff - something different.
Post by: Wulzzz on April 23, 2011, 11:04:43 pm
Let me add "4" to that

4
Watch other ranged and realise that QQing that you cant 1 hit everyone and reload while rofljumping in midair then continue 1 shotting people is useless.

Only cause you obviously wasn't able to use xbows effectively according to their abilities, doesn't mean that it's impossible to play them effectively as primary ranged weapon.

Or in other words: don't run in open field without cover and try to duel archers like an idiot.

Sure it was somehow ment as an sidearm AKA "i can use that stuff without investing any skill points woooot"
But sure you can play it as a primary weapon IF you keep an eye on its abilities and disadvantages = don't run around without cover like a maniac.

Or do you want to disput that xbows deliver high damage, high wpf helps alot with reload speed and accuracy.
And there maybe maybe maybe might might be a way to ask mac gyver if there might be a way to actually be able to use these advantages even if there are also disadvantages?
Title: Re: Crossbows buff - something different.
Post by: Siboire on April 23, 2011, 11:06:33 pm
I played throwing, archery (and HA) and now doing a dedicated xbow (150 wpf in xbow) and I can tell that the hardest range class to play is certainly the dedicated xbowman. Even with 150 wpf, it takes a good 3-4 seconds to reload a sniper xbow where your sitting duck if you dont have teamates to keep ennemies away or if your not hidden. On top of that with the slots nerf coming, heavy and sniper xbow will be 2 slots with 1 slot for bolts which means only one slot left for anything like a 1hander to defend myself in melee. Archers can move while reloading and shoot on the move so they are less vulnerable. Throwers can hide behind a shield and even with a shield, they can have 12 ammo with the best throwing weapons (beside lances) but me, if I have a shield (or a 1hand weapon) I only have 15 steel bolts with my heavy or sniper xbow. Just saying...

So IMO, a little damage bonus would certainly even things out.
Title: Re: Crossbows buff - something different.
Post by: Riddaren on April 23, 2011, 11:27:35 pm
Seems fair.