Off Topic => General Off Topic => Topic started by: The_Bloody_Nine on November 10, 2012, 03:12:06 am
Title: Mars One
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on November 10, 2012, 03:12:06 am
What do you think of it? Is it gonna happen? Or just Bullshit? Would you fly one-way to Mars?
I think it's astounding that they are actually planing this and seem to be serious about it. And it feels strange they wanna finance it by making a Mars-like Big Brother out of it, but it could actually work this way.
Oh, and when I watch their own commercial I think it could perfectly be some intro to a bad sci-fi horror splatter. Crew lands on Mars, one guy goes crazy like Jack Torrance or some Mars ghosts appear. :D
Title: Re: Mars One
Post by: Kafein on November 10, 2012, 03:23:56 am
Seems pretty sweet to me. Aslong as the water and sunlight exsists on Mars, theres really nothing wrong with that plan.
Mars's own water would be too complicated to obtain, no ? I think they will rather use a closed water cycle.
Title: Re: Mars One
Post by: BlindGuy on November 10, 2012, 11:34:24 pm
It says they are considering mining the frozen water on mars, and the hydrogen... I'm hoping this wont go the way of Virgin Space Travel, and vanish before anyone gets to leave the atmosphere. I WOULD offer to go with them but the ping to EU1 from Mars would be epicly shit.
Title: Re: Mars One
Post by: Tibe on November 11, 2012, 02:06:45 am
Mars's own water would be too complicated to obtain, no ? I think they will rather use a closed water cycle.
Yes, but atleast its obtainable without being too dependant on Earth's resources. Imo the biggest worry is about growing plants. Soil does loose its fertility over time and when constantly transporting more of it from Earth, the project still sorta looses its point. I quess it would be a 100% success if we manage to create a stable system on Mars that really only needs built machinery to run.
Title: Re: Mars One
Post by: Kafein on November 11, 2012, 03:45:07 am
It says they are considering mining the frozen water on mars, and the hydrogen... I'm hoping this wont go the way of Virgin Space Travel, and vanish before anyone gets to leave the atmosphere. I WOULD offer to go with them but the ping to EU1 from Mars would be epicly shit.
Well I guess you could try to use the Internet with ultra hardcore ping (I'm not sure but I'd say one minute) when Mars and Earth are close together. Mars's revolution period is a little less than 2 years. However, when it is on the other side of the sun, good luck.
Yes, but atleast its obtainable without being too dependant on Earth's resources. Imo the biggest worry is about growing plants. Soil does loose its fertility over time and when constantly transporting more of it from Earth, the project still sorta looses its point. I quess it would be a 100% success if we manage to create a stable system on Mars that really only needs built machinery to run.
It's theoritically possible to export a complete nutrient cycle. You got light so you can have photosynthesis, you got humans and eventually animals that poop, you got water, you got some soil. You can artificially keep the soil rich by recycling all the biological waste of the colony (earth-worms and some bacteria types do that for a living). All this only requires energy, and energy we can easily get from the sun, or even a nuclear plant when the colony becomes big enough. Storing nuclear waste on a lifeless rock doesn't sound so bad (ofc the moon might be a better choice for that).
Title: Re: Mars One
Post by: Bjord on November 11, 2012, 04:14:30 am
Is it possible to sling nuclear waste into the sun?
And if so, what are the consequences?
Title: Re: Mars One
Post by: BlindGuy on November 11, 2012, 11:18:30 am
Well, they mention hydroponic growing so that removes the soil issue altogether.
I believe if you fired nuclear waste into the sun you would miss, but if you DID do the math right and managed to get in on course for the sun, it would probably burn up long before hitting the actual gass explosions the sun is made of. While this might ever so slightly affect the suns lifespan, I couldnt say wether it would be a postive or negative effect. I think it would depend on the efficiency of the cells the material was used in: anything left that is fissionable would ignite and create heat and light, any material that has had almost all potential energy removed would sap light and heat from the sun, but without a rate of transfer I really have no idea what the effect would be over time.
As a one off event, it would do very little and would destroy the material forever, unless you had collected such a huge mass of waste material that it managed to exhaust all energy the sun was outputting, to the point that it had not enough left to continue fission and release more. But for that we would have to have found a planet of ridiculous proportions made entirely of unstable reactive materials, then mined it, then expended the potential energy by transferring it to our storage grids.
BAHJURD: TL;DR version is... Fuck all. We wouldnt even notice an effect, it would simply vanish in space.
Title: Re: Mars One
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on May 30, 2013, 09:33:23 pm
Is it possible to sling nuclear waste into the sun?
And if so, what are the consequences?
Zero. Nothing. The same goes for nuclear waste stored on any unhabited celestial body (asteroids too) or in impervious (?) facilities deep under sea level. The only problem is that sending nuclear waste into space would be so unefficient I'm not even sure the energy balance of doing fission + that is positive. On Mars though, there's almost nothing in danger if you just put them away from the colonies, like in a crater for example. Another good thing is that afaik Mars is super cold so cooling the plant would be very easy.
Title: Re: Mars One
Post by: Son Of Odin on May 30, 2013, 10:27:19 pm
Hitting the sun with all the nuclear waste on earth would be like hitting earth with 1 kg of nuclear waste. This comparison is based on mass alone.
Hitting the sun with nuclear waste would be like pissing on a forest fire. Try it sometime and see how much of an effect you have.
Title: Re: Mars One
Post by: Utrakil on June 01, 2013, 09:26:36 am
Maybe someone figured out that this project might be a funny way to get rid of a lot of useless weirdos. And the good thing about it: nobody has to force them... they apply.
Title: Re: Mars One
Post by: Son Of Odin on June 01, 2013, 09:35:15 am
Maybe someone figured out that this project might be a funny way to get rid of a lot of useless weirdos. And the good thing about it: nobody has to force them... they apply.
It's just expensive... Or maybe they send one sane group to space and then have hundreds and hundreds of fake training centers where NASA mass murders all the less intelligent people.
Title: Re: Mars One
Post by: Utrakil on June 01, 2013, 09:46:24 am
How expensive it is depends on your media marketing skills. if they make a TV show out of it they might make profite. I would buy a coffee mug with the face of a darwinawardwinning volunteer.
Title: Re: Mars One
Post by: Kafein on June 01, 2013, 11:01:41 am
How expensive it is depends on your media marketing skills. if they make a TV show out of it they might make profite. I would buy a coffee mug with the face of a darwinawardwinning volunteer.
Well judging by all the weird nutters they put on Big Brother and how successful that was for so many years, I'd gamble that crazy people on a rocket to Mars would generate huge amounts of money. Just imagine the money they could get from granting the television rights to various countries TV stations.
Title: Re: Mars One
Post by: Leesin on June 01, 2013, 02:36:20 pm
Inb4 they kill eachother.
It's a cool idea though, I would apply if I didn't have a son and a girlfriend.
Title: Re: Mars One
Post by: zagibu on June 01, 2013, 03:29:55 pm
No, I don't, I checked the mass on wikipedia. It's roughly a third of a million times heavier than earth. I also googled how much nuclear waste is on earth and the first result said 1000 tons. So yeah, it's more like 3 kg, but who cares?
Title: Re: Mars One
Post by: Oberyn on June 01, 2013, 03:54:47 pm
Hitting the Sun with nuclear waste is like feeding the plant with carbon dioxide.
But Kafein is right, it's too costly. Also there's another thing, nuclear waste could prove to be useful in the future.
This is true, one of the most profitable areas right now for nuclear science is the "recycling" or reprocessing of what was previously considered to be useless nuclear waste. The more the technology progresses, the more power can be extracted from the "waste". It doesn't make the material any less radioactive and doesn't lessen the need for storage afaik...maybe eventually shooting tons of radioactive waste into the sun could become economically viable, if we manage to create a space elevator or some other way of putting stuff in orbit that doesn't require such a huge fuel and technical investment.
Title: Re: Mars One
Post by: Kafein on June 01, 2013, 05:03:48 pm
No, I don't, I checked the mass on wikipedia. It's roughly a third of a million times heavier than earth. I also googled how much nuclear waste is on earth and the first result said 1000 tons. So yeah, it's more like 3 kg, but who cares?
:lol: you got lucky, I didn't knew the numbers and supposed the Sun was heavier than that.
Btw, developping fast neutron reactor research again as uranium reserves are depleting seems to be a much more promising project.
Title: Re: Mars One
Post by: zagibu on June 01, 2013, 05:18:09 pm
Yeah, let's invest more into technology that can, when things go wrong, lay waste to the countryside for miles. Especially when there are cheaper and less dangerous alternatives around.
Title: Re: Mars One
Post by: Kafein on June 01, 2013, 05:20:41 pm
Yeah, let's invest more into technology that can, when things go wrong, lay waste to the countryside for miles. Especially when there are cheaper and less dangerous alternatives around.
Wait what
Title: Re: Mars One
Post by: Son Of Odin on June 01, 2013, 06:20:40 pm
:lol: you got lucky, I didn't knew the numbers and supposed the Sun was heavier than that.
Well to put it in perspective 99,9% of the mass in our solar system is in the Sun :D. So I guess couple thousand tons of nuclear waste isn't going to do much to it. Then again I'm not really sure what kind of reactions that waste would create there.
Title: Re: Mars One
Post by: Largg on June 01, 2013, 06:25:17 pm
Thing about flinging waste stuff at sun is it makes absolutely no sense. If you throw a ball on earth orbit (space) towards the sun it will obviously not fly there. The ball is on trajectory around earth that will only be slightly altered from yours. To get stuff collide at sun would need immense amounts of power to change the trajectory needed. Generally it is not feasible either to send waste into space unless you're already on orbit where you're comfortable dumping it.
maybe eventually shooting tons of radioactive waste into the sun could become economically viable, if we manage to create a space elevator or some other way of putting stuff in orbit that doesn't require such a huge fuel and technical investment.
Space elevator is the safe way to do that. If we fill a huge rocket with nuclear waste, there's risk of a disaster similar to what happened to SS Challenger and if that happens, we are screwed.
Title: Re: Mars One
Post by: zagibu on June 01, 2013, 11:27:05 pm
Space elevator would cause uproar in the religious world: People trying to ascend into heaven without believing in GOD.
Title: Re: Mars One
Post by: Armpit_Sweat on June 02, 2013, 12:11:12 am
What do you think of it? Is it gonna happen? Or just Bullshit? Would you fly one-way to Mars?
I think it's astounding that they are actually planing this and seem to be serious about it. And it feels strange they wanna finance it by making a Mars-like Big Brother out of it, but it could actually work this way.
Oh, and when I watch their own commercial I think it could perfectly be some intro to a bad sci-fi horror splatter. Crew lands on Mars, one guy goes crazy like Jack Torrance or some Mars ghosts appear. :D
As I am getting older, I lose excitement about technology :( I would much rather see the disappearance of religion and the daily massacres around the world. Our kids will be doing tourist trips to space, and some few billion humans will be living like animals under open sky. Not that I really give a single shit about anyone starving, but it devalues all the "technological wonders" in a way. Mars-Shmars. I bet they will pray to Jebus after a safe landing, or some other deity, so cynical :)
As I am getting older, I lose excitement about technology :( I would much rather see the disappearance of religion and the daily massacres around the world. Our kids will be doing tourist trips to space, and some few billion humans will be living like animals under open sky. Not that I really give a single shit about anyone starving, but it devalues all the "technological wonders" in a way. Mars-Shmars. I bet they will pray to Jebus after a safe landing, or some other deity, so cynical :)
mh, I am not sure I understand the connections you draw. You think that technological advancement should go hand in hand with the disappearance of religion and if that's not the case technology looses it's value? And the massacres are happening because of religion?
Title: Re: Mars One
Post by: Henry_Broodsonson on June 02, 2013, 02:09:41 pm
:lol: Still can't solve it then...
Title: Re: Mars One
Post by: Henry_Broodsonson on June 02, 2013, 04:58:35 pm
Title: Re: Mars One
Post by: Berserkadin on June 02, 2013, 07:15:33 pm
Is there any profit to be made for this? Our capitalistic system doesn't really approve of investing money into something that won't earn you any money.
Title: Re: Mars One
Post by: Henry_Broodsonson on June 02, 2013, 07:37:46 pm
People don't want money. They want meaning.
Title: Re: Mars One
Post by: Kafein on June 02, 2013, 11:49:46 pm
Is there any profit to be made for this? Our capitalistic system doesn't really approve of investing money into something that won't earn you any money.
That's false and you know it.
Title: Re: Mars One
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on June 03, 2013, 01:42:34 am
Is there any profit to be made for this? Our capitalistic system doesn't really approve of investing money into something that won't earn you any money.
commies gonna commie.
Title: Re: Mars One
Post by: Torben on June 03, 2013, 01:58:48 am
imagine the ping if you wanna play crpg o0
Title: Re: Mars One
Post by: Micah on June 03, 2013, 03:23:00 am
Im not exactly sure what this thread is about , but i overread some posts about sending nuclear wase into the sun. Sending stuff into the sun is technically no big deal, aswell as there wouldnt be any interresting effects of it hitting the sun. The only problem about it is , that there IS NO 100% guaranty that any rocket start would succeed. Also its pretty common knowledge , that nuclear waste contains high poisonous substances like plutonium, where only about one liter is able to destroy all life on earth for ten's to hundreds of thausands of years if it makes it into the earth water circle household. some tons of radiactive substances in the biosphere causing some mutations deaths are a joke against this. Lets say, the chance would exceede 99.99%(which is far from current technological state), it would be a chance of 0.001% to cleanse all organic life on this planet. Who would take the risk ? At which percentage would it be worth ? Certainly not above the chance of a propperly done Deep geological repository can achieve.
Title: Re: Mars One
Post by: Henry_Broodsonson on June 03, 2013, 11:06:40 am
Im not exactly sure what this thread is about , but i overread some posts about sending nuclear wase into the sun. Sending nuclear waste into the sun is technically no big deal, aswell as there wouldnt be any interresting effects of it hitting the sun. The only problem about it is , that there IS NO 100% guaranty that any rocket start would succeed. Also its pretty common knowledge , that nuclear waste contains high poisonous substances like plutonium, where only about one liter is able to destroy all life on earth for ten's to hundreds of thausands of years if it makes it into the earth water circle household. some tons of radiactive substances in the biosphere causing some mutations deaths are a joke against this. Lets say, the chance would exceede 99.99%(which is far from current technological state), it would be a chance of 0.001% to cleanse all biological life on this planet. Who would take the risk ? At which percentage would it be worth ? Certainly not above the chance of a propperly done Deep geological repository can achieve.
mh, I am not sure I understand the connections you draw. You think that technological advancement should go hand in hand with the disappearance of religion and if that's not the case technology looses it's value? And the massacres are happening because of religion?
Technological advancement does go hand in hand with the disappearance of religion, it just needs to shift few gears up already! Massacres are happening due to low standards of living, and some religious individuals play on it, as they always did, lying about a better "next" life. Every word, that comes out of every preacher - is a dangerous lie! Even more dangerous if they really believe in all that nonsense, although the clever ones, tend to mention the "allegorical nature" of their religious writings. But, of cause, when you live in a state of utter poverty, it is much more tempting to trust yourself in the hands of some invisible deity, rather than accept your life for what it is - a pitiful, joyless, unpleasant duty, that will end prematurely and without any cause or deeper meaning...
So instead of spending countless resources and time, on sending someone to Mars, I, personally, would use these resources on feeding and educating poor countries. Not for free of cause, but only if they accept and embrace the values of western civilization. No need to feed and educate someone, who will use their energy and knowledge to build a religious stone-age society. Might be more emotions than sense here, but i really, really hate every written religion of human history!
As for technology losing it's value, i was referring to "moral value". If you are a starving two year old kid, how many fucks do you give about Mars and IPhone 6?.. Both are only interesting if you have everything, and are bored with everything.
Mkay, i can go on like this forever, no need to encourage me. My shift is up, time to go home, and spend my evening in sweet delight!
Title: Re: Mars One
Post by: Kafein on June 04, 2013, 05:51:40 pm
I don't think religions as in moral authorities will survive very long around the world as long as the values of the 17th century enlightment are re-discovered and not directly imported from the West "without legitimacy".
As for the argument that science kills god, you just have to ask the question "does god exist ?" and answer it using scientific methodology : "do I need god to explain what I see ?" and the short answer is "no you don't". All gods of all human mythologies are like that.
The same reasoning millenias ago would have been in favor of the existence of gods with tangible powers and their own independant human-like behavior.
Title: Re: Mars One
Post by: Oberyn on June 04, 2013, 06:00:50 pm
Technological advancement does go hand in hand with the disappearance of religion, it just needs to shift few gears up already! Massacres are happening due to low standards of living, and some religious individuals play on it, as they always did, lying about a better "next" life. Every word, that comes out of every preacher - is a dangerous lie! Even more dangerous if they really believe in all that nonsense, although the clever ones, tend to mention the "allegorical nature" of their religious writings. But, of cause, when you live in a state of utter poverty, it is much more tempting to trust yourself in the hands of some invisible deity, rather than accept your life for what it is - a pitiful, joyless, unpleasant duty, that will end prematurely and without any cause or deeper meaning...
So instead of spending countless resources and time, on sending someone to Mars, I, personally, would use these resources on feeding and educating poor countries. Not for free of cause, but only if they accept and embrace the values of western civilization. No need to feed and educate someone, who will use their energy and knowledge to build a religious stone-age society. Might be more emotions than sense here, but i really, really hate every written religion of human history!
As for technology losing it's value, i was referring to "moral value". If you are a starving two year old kid, how many fucks do you give about Mars and IPhone 6?.. Both are only interesting if you have everything, and are bored with everything.
Mkay, i can go on like this forever, no need to encourage me. My shift is up, time to go home, and spend my evening in sweet delight!
Won't happen, religion seems endemic to humanity. If it isn't a "God", it is replaced with some other ideology, where the same mechanisms of groupthink morality and untouchable "sacred cows" is enforced. Might as well wish for workable anarchy, when it's obvious that humans always, ALWAYS arrange themselves in pyramidal hierarchies, no matter the context. Religion in it's most base expression is simply trying to apply a set of patterns (basically the way humans think about everything) to things that we cannot explain otherwise. As soon as it develops beyond the individual it becomes just another form of communal glue that separates the world between "my group" and "the rest".
Title: Re: Mars One
Post by: Kafein on June 04, 2013, 06:13:03 pm
Well yeah you can end religions as we know them but we will stay human for longer than that.
Title: Re: Mars One
Post by: Henry_Broodsonson on June 04, 2013, 08:07:45 pm