cRPG

Strategus => Diplomacy => Topic started by: TugBoat on October 28, 2012, 09:11:08 pm

Title: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: TugBoat on October 28, 2012, 09:11:08 pm
TugBOAT sat in the peaceful city of Reyvadin, giving food to small orphans and rescuing kittens when he heard the news. BOAT clan had always had friendly relations with the Fallen Brigade and their allies, but when they declared war on the Knights' Union, he had named Reyvadin as his target.

TugBOAT was not surprised. Reyvadin was a lovely, prosperous city full of voluptuous women that happened to be close to the dingy dank kingdom of the Fallen. He had seen their envious eyes cast upon him for a long time. Despite doing trade with them often, working with them as mercenaries and having them work with BOAT clan as mercenaries, they still declare war. Why? They want Reyvadin. It is clear. The Knights' battle against BRD was going to be a long hard fought battle. The Knights had lost much and were defending what they could. Reyvadin was well defended, but perhaps the coward Tears realized a defense against two armies was unlikely.

TugBOAT stood on the battlements and faced the fallen lands. BOATs were louder than people so he knew that the Fallen could hear him, "If you want to throw away a friendship because you want another piece of land, go ahead then, but don't pretend like you have any other reason than your own personal greed and ambition!"
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Espwn on October 28, 2012, 09:13:40 pm
Quote from: TugBoat on October 28, 2012, 09:11:08 pm
The Knights' battle against the BRD FCC was going to be a long hard fought battle.

Fixed that for yah.  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: TugBoat on October 28, 2012, 09:16:11 pm
Quote from: Espwn on October 28, 2012, 09:13:40 pm
Fixed that for yah.  :mrgreen:

I'm in BOAT clan I don't know the particulars of the battles going on.
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: BaleOhay on October 28, 2012, 09:40:42 pm
FCC calls dibs on Nova Reyvadin
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Nightingale on October 28, 2012, 09:50:00 pm
No its mine!  :rolleyes: because obviously I have a claim for it.
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Lordark on October 28, 2012, 09:53:37 pm
EU is invading NA for Tkov/Fcc/Fallen/NH/HP/SHOGUNATE ne other clans feel free to add to this list

The circle of Hypocritisity is complete. GG  NA~!
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Keshian on October 28, 2012, 11:16:51 pm
Quote from: Lordark on October 28, 2012, 09:53:37 pm
EU is invading NA for Tkov/Fcc/Fallen/NH/HP/SHOGUNATE ne other clans feel free to add to this list

The circle of Hypocritisity is complete. GG  NA~!

You posted this in 2 separate threads.  No fucking clue what you are talking about.  Are you schizophrenic???  EU is not invading, Fallen is not at war with Hospitallers, Shogunate is a 1-man clan marching around while you guys run away from him because youa re scared so he left for EU where people might actually put upa  real fight instead of being cowards hiding behind unlimited money creating plate armored armies.
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Warcat on October 28, 2012, 11:35:31 pm
Quote from: TugBoat on October 28, 2012, 09:11:08 pm
like you have any other reason than your own personal greed and ambition!"
That's a great reason by itself

Quote from: TugBoat on October 28, 2012, 09:11:08 pm
TugBOAT sat in the peaceful city of Reyvadin, giving food to small orphans and rescuing kittens when he heard the news.
Studies show that most small orphans in Reyvadin are likely to become taiga bandits anyway, no point in feeding them. And any kittens that you "rescue" in Reyvadin are nothing more than ones stolen from the grand kitten breeding grounds of Zagush, and kitten theft is a crime too heinous even for Fallens, so for that you must die!
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: TugBoat on October 29, 2012, 12:03:07 am
Quote from: Warcat on October 28, 2012, 11:35:31 pm
That's a great reason by itself
Studies show that most small orphans in Reyvadin are likely to become taiga bandits anyway, no point in feeding them. And any kittens that you "rescue" in Reyvadin are nothing more than ones stolen from the grand kitten breeding grounds of Zagush, and kitten theft is a crime too heinous even for Fallens, so for that you must die!

How dare you slander the good name of BOAT clan!
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Lordark on October 29, 2012, 12:19:27 am
Quote from: Keshian on October 28, 2012, 11:16:51 pm
You posted this in 2 separate threads.  No fucking clue what you are talking about.  Are you schizophrenic???  EU is not invading, Fallen is not at war with Hospitallers, Shogunate is a 1-man clan marching around while you guys run away from him because youa re scared so he left for EU where people might actually put upa  real fight instead of being cowards hiding behind unlimited money creating plate armored armies.

unlimited amounts of plate crutching armies? Crazy? Well sounds like were walking on even ground then there Kesh my boyo!
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Tanken on October 29, 2012, 12:42:42 am
I guess since I went in-character for the other post, I'll go somewhat out of character for this one.

We've been extremely fair to Fallen, and have held them in high respect. Never was our attacks made to disregard their relationships with us.

The first offense came when AdalWulf of HRE took supplies, gold, and goods from a fief and then attempted to run. He was caught, held captive, and later released but we retrieved what we had been robbed of.

The second offense came when members of Fallen failed to adhere to our trade policy. It clearly states that they are able to trade, but there must be warning ahead of time. We reached out to them for nearly 4 hours with no response since their Strategus Diplomacy is split between EU and NA and none of the NA members with a title to do anything about it would reply (ahem, Tears.) So I gave the order to attack, which is clearly stated in our faction page, despite diplomacy. Even Hospitallers and Wolves must adhere to the same rules. No one is special and no one is excused.

When we took out the "Horse Thief" we held him captive in our fief, and held some 980 goods. I could not relay information to Doom fast enough since he is EU and he cashed some 100 the next morning, but I told him not to cash more. In haste for the war with FCC, he cashed I believe 200-300 more, to which Garem was nearby to come and reclaim the goods, which we had kindly held since many members of their leadership had said it was a mistake on their part that he came there and that he was new blah blah blah.

So, they got back like maybe 680ish goods of the 980 ish we got. And as compensation I said that they could cash out what goods Garem was currently carrying in Yruma (Mind you, only 5% tax) and that we would also send them 300 of our goods in the near future to be kind. This seemed to be fine. All was dandy. I also approach Fallen about giving them Ulburban yesterday once we are able to reclaim it since it is too far out of our domain to tend to and that was a major reason it fell. No response was given on that, and the only thing I asked in return was their safe passage of a trader.



This is what we get today. Whether it is Drama, or people just being greedy, it's kind of silly and done so on false-pretense. We have been fair, and when we have made mistakes or a mistake was made by them, we've sought to correct it. Not once have we wronged them in any means that was detrimental, and we always stood true to our word, not to mention we acted as mercenaries for their armies even against greater friends such as Chaos strictly because we were allies of sorts. Now this is what we are repaid with.


Sorry for the long post, wanted to put it out there.
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: TurmoilTom on October 29, 2012, 01:19:30 am
They are obviously jealous of the ballin' turkish bath houses in New Ulburban.

Too bad it's currently under custody of Banders.

I miss my empty village.
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Lt_Anders on October 29, 2012, 01:44:57 am
Quote from: TurmoilTom on October 29, 2012, 01:19:30 am
They are obviously jealous of the ballin' turkish bath houses in New Ulburban.

Too bad it's currently under custody of Banders.

I miss my empty village.

Those bath houses were amazing, and the women....THE WOMEN!
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: TugBoat on October 29, 2012, 02:01:25 am
Quote from: Lt_Anders on October 29, 2012, 01:44:57 am
Those bath houses were amazing, and the women....THE WOMEN!

The women in Reyvadin were better than those, but they were executed to keep them out of the hands of any greedy Fallen.
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Tanken on October 29, 2012, 02:13:47 am
Quote from: TugBoat on October 29, 2012, 02:01:25 am
The women in Reyvadin were better than those, but they were executed to keep them out of the hands of any greedy Fallen.

Except the fat ones. We are eating them slowly and keeping them alive to keep the meat fresh.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Garem on October 29, 2012, 04:25:23 am
Re: Tanken's first post.

I'm sure you see it that way. I can understand why you see it that way.

It's not entirely accurate, of course. You're assuming that claiming fiefs means something more than claiming fiefs- we went after the gold, sure, because we got off on a bad foot as a clan and didn't get enough fiefs. Quick cash was needed, and someone else had it at the time. If you thought that, we sure didn't know. This is a new Strat, there are new issues coming up. We'd have given you the fief (and ultimately did). Then we were attacked? Fine, fine, so we just let you get what you wanted.

You had said that we would have trade agreements (funny enough, in your fantastic post on the main thread you even mention that 'agreement', and then mention how things were "stolen" from you... huh?). Except those kept being conveniently revoked and confusing. I'm pretty sure this wasn't malicious, and I know it couldn't be mere confusion on KUTT's part since you're the sole authority in KUTT. When you're not a big group (NA Fallen clearly is not that big) - losing all those troops and all those goods is a SERIOUS problem. We kept getting held out on a limb. We got tired of being strung along.

You said that you had tried to contact us, but we hadn't been particularly unavailable that day. You didn't stand to lose much attacking a defenseless trader.

So it boils down to this: you were acting as if we weren't big enough to stop being bullied, however gently it may have been. You were sending a few guys to fight in our battles, but really, not that many. Not enough for sure. You were denying us important trade outlets. We tried working with you, but you never made it worth our while. Can't say we didn't try. Plus, we're hoping for some good battles here. Even with FCC attacking you, you're not NEARLY as outnumbered as Hospis are right now. You're also on the defensive. I don't think you're as screwed as you make it out to be.

Plus, as Kesh said in the other post, if you ARE screwed, nobody is quite sure why that is.

So you might have saved your kingdom by being more giving. Instead, we're getting something back and hoping for a net win in XP and land. We're not interested in seeing KUTT obliterated, we're interested in regaining our losses. If you want to be friends with Fallen (or anyone for that matter) make sure it remains worthwhile to them to remain at your side. And I use that term loosely- we never had any agreements beyond neighborliness, an interest in fighting fun battles, and a "trade agreement" (which terms continued to be unclear, and never to our benefit for long). For us, it's no longer useful to be neighborly now... and hasn't been for some time.

It's also pretty clear that none of this is personal. We have enjoyed fighting for you guys for a while - I can't say that about most other Teamspeaks. Considering how the FCC rosters keep getting filled, personally speaking, I hope to get in on your side for any of the big battles. Winning battles against empty rosters isn't much fun, and fortunately NA for the MOST part understands that. Those that whimper about oil money aside.
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Tanken on October 29, 2012, 05:07:52 am
Let me lay this out for you Garem, because apparently you and those whom were attacked in our territory of your clan missed this part, which has always been there in our diplomacy thread:

"Coalition Members (notify ahead of time on large trades)"

Was never notified of Vengst, and Remnants, being the clan that traded most actively in our territory can tell you that is all I ask. Might I remind you, that this time was a time when everyone was starting to figure out how big of a pain of an ass S&D really was and people that had neglected Prosperity ratings, were now realizing their importance.

Did I, or did I not give you the goods back, apologize for inconvenience, allow you to cashout goods now and use our S&D and offer to refund what we spent? Hell, if you guys had asked for the troops to be resent that wouldn't have been hard--but you didn't.

You failed to oblige by our trade rules, all we ask you to do is notify us ahead of time, I could have directed you to a fief where we could have worked a deal and had those taken care of, but you guys didn't. And why is that after this went down, it was you all apologizing to me for your mistake? It was your mistake, stop turning it like it was ours. We helped you get the stuff back.

Quote from: Tears of Destiny on October 29, 2012, 12:41:56 am
My good sir, we did not reneg on any deal with KUTT.
There it is. Here, when yesterday you gave my member Dutchy_KUTT passage in your town. Now I find that you have lured him into a false-help and have him give you some goods or whatnot, and now have kicked him out and attacked him.Edit: I misunderstood what happened with Dutchy, but the fact remains you said he could be there and still attacked him. That's low, that's really low. It may not be a personal level, but the way you are trying to twist things to sound like it's anything but a land-grab spree for you guys and an attempt to be greedy is really ballbreaking to listen to.


/me shakes his head.

Also, I'm fairly sure our trade agreement was one sided always. We've never purchased goods in your fiefs nor sold them as far as I know.
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: MURDERTRON on October 29, 2012, 05:10:57 am
Sorry guys, Reyvadin MURDEROPOLIS is part of the MURDERLAND amustment park construction project.  Like I said before, I'm building hotels.  Deal with it.
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Garem on October 29, 2012, 05:36:16 am
I did ask for everything back. Remember that conversation? I specifically asked you to throw the fight. It was when I learned that the cancel fight mechanic doesn't just let you off with 25% troop loss- you lose all troops. You corrected my misunderstanding of how that worked. This conversation took place and either you forgot about it or you're not telling the truth.

We DID notify you ahead of time, wasn't that the point of the original arrangement? Then the borders got closed, then opened... did you want us to tell you every single caravan? What exactly is a big order? He wasn't a particularly big caravan. He was told to wait so we could figure out what the hell the new terms meant, sure, but he didn't wait because he's new to Strategus. He was attacked immediately anyways.

You did give part of the goods back- hence I mentioned the 60%. That's highballing, since that's not accounting for the hundreds of troops we lost on both occasions.

We apologized because we didn't have a choice. We wanted our stuff back and we had no clue what to expect- we needed to recover as much as possible, minimize losses. We may not have been innocent, yes Vengt made a mistake. But you'd attacked us twice, for God's sake.

We got tired of not having any idea what to expect from you. As you've admitted, and your RP post made very clear, KUTT is terribly disorganized. It's hard to work with someone when you never know where they're coming from. In your own words in the other thread (and I disagree, as a note), "KUTT deserves to get wiped". As I said before, you can't say we didn't try to make it work.

Put yourself in our shoes for a minute here.

-We never attacked KUTT accidentally. You can't say that.
-We had very specific requests- an open trade route. Instead of clarifying issues, you attacked, admittedly sold part of our goods, and kept us in the dark. I still don't have a clue what a "large caravan" is in your book. I just shut down the route because you couldn't figure it out.
-We had no reliable roster support. We've been asking our own people to sign up for KUTT, but continue to have to go to KUTT's TS just to ask for more.

We could no longer afford to share your problems at our own expense, and we had no deals entitling you to that help any longer.

*Garem shrugs his shoulders and gives a well-wishing thumbs up.*
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: TugBoat on October 29, 2012, 07:04:03 am
Quote from: Garem on October 29, 2012, 05:36:16 am
I did ask for everything back. Remember that conversation? I specifically asked you to throw the fight. It was when I learned that the cancel fight mechanic doesn't just let you off with 25% troop loss- you lose all troops. You corrected my misunderstanding of how that worked. This conversation took place and either you forgot about it or you're not telling the truth.

We DID notify you ahead of time, wasn't that the point of the original arrangement? Then the borders got closed, then opened... did you want us to tell you every single caravan? What exactly is a big order? He wasn't a particularly big caravan. He was told to wait so we could figure out what the hell the new terms meant, sure, but he didn't wait because he's new to Strategus. He was attacked immediately anyways.

You did give part of the goods back- hence I mentioned the 60%. That's highballing, since that's not accounting for the hundreds of troops we lost on both occasions.

We apologized because we didn't have a choice. We wanted our stuff back and we had no clue what to expect- we needed to recover as much as possible, minimize losses. We may not have been innocent, yes Vengt made a mistake. But you'd attacked us twice, for God's sake.

We got tired of not having any idea what to expect from you. As you've admitted, and your RP post made very clear, KUTT is terribly disorganized. It's hard to work with someone when you never know where they're coming from. In your own words in the other thread (and I disagree, as a note), "KUTT deserves to get wiped". As I said before, you can't say we didn't try to make it work.

Put yourself in our shoes for a minute here.

-We never attacked KUTT accidentally. You can't say that.
-We had very specific requests- an open trade route. Instead of clarifying issues, you attacked, admittedly sold part of our goods, and kept us in the dark. I still don't have a clue what a "large caravan" is in your book. I just shut down the route because you couldn't figure it out.
-We had no reliable roster support. We've been asking our own people to sign up for KUTT, but continue to have to go to KUTT's TS just to ask for more.

We could no longer afford to share your problems at our own expense, and we had no deals entitling you to that help any longer.

*Garem shrugs his shoulders and gives a well-wishing thumbs up.*

I seriously wish I had the power to revoke the speaking privileges of people for the sole purpose of being completely ignorant. If you want to attack us, just own up to it and say that you're doing so because your'e pathetic cowards who couldn't win a fight if we weren't getting stomped all over by FCC. I hope FCC wipes you all out when they're done messing with us, or you better hope that you and FCC finish the job because when it's all over BOAT clan is coming for the Fallen weaklings.
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Garem on October 29, 2012, 02:14:47 pm
Yikes. Ad hominem much?

You weren't present for aforementioned conversation. You're pretending to know things that you don't (and can't), and without a hint of irony accusing someone else of ignorance.

In fact, as far as Fallen is aware, you play no part in diplomatic relations whatsoever. Everything comes and goes through Tanken. Whatever you hear has already been filtered into an appropriate paradigm.
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Warcat on October 29, 2012, 02:42:39 pm
Our topic about this war is already way ahead of this one in post count, just the first victory for us of many in this war.
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Tanken on October 29, 2012, 04:14:07 pm
I've just got to say this Garem, you guys are wrong about the way you are going about this war.

However you want to beat around the bush, or turn this like it is on us, is entirely a mislabel on what this war is actually about. You see opportunity to strike, and join a winning side, instead of stand up for people who have been helpful to you. Casted votes for your establishments to get settled, was happy to have you nestled in as neighbors, and tried our best to be fair. The AdalWulf incident can best be explained by Tugboat, but it is something that you guys were informed of what the mistake was and no further discussion was made about it. So bringing that up as a means for war is just searching small instances for a chance to turn them into something bigger.

That's like me telling you I'm going to beat you up because you ate Grade B eggs for breakfast three months ago. It's stupid.

The attack on Vengst, as you said, was your fault. I clearly stated (and I've said this plenty of times) that you guys need to inform us exactly when and how much goods you'll be bringing in. That could be interpreted as 1 crate, all the way up to 10,000. All you had to do was ask. But you and your leadership and Vengst failed to. Even in an attempt to get it remedied before any of our precious S&D was lost when we needed it most, we reached out. You guys didn't answer.

So please, stop saying it is our fault.

We have repaid what we've been able to, and movements were in order to repay the rest. You guys gave me your word that I would see Dutchy at least to Reyvadin, and only when you realize he carries a lot of goods, do you reneg on this deal, declare war, and attack him.


Cowards, liars, and the epitome of what you can come to expect of trustworthy people on the Internet and this game.



Good day sir.
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Garem on October 29, 2012, 06:45:38 pm
Quote from: Tank Burner on October 29, 2012, 04:14:07 pm
However you want to beat around the bush, or turn this like it is on us, is entirely a mislabel on what this war is actually about. You see opportunity to strike, and join a winning side, instead of stand up for people who have been helpful to you.

Helpful is a subjective standard. I never said you weren't helpful, but not all the time, and the quality of that help has dropped to downright unhelpful. Your faction is a mess. You're a net loss for us, a liability. We can't afford for you to keep being a problem for us any longer. Things change.

Quote from: Tank Burner on October 29, 2012, 04:14:07 pm
Casted votes for your establishments to get settled, was happy to have you nestled in as neighbors, and tried our best to be fair. The AdalWulf incident can best be explained by Tugboat, but it is something that you guys were informed of what the mistake was and no further discussion was made about it. So bringing that up as a means for war is just searching small instances for a chance to turn them into something bigger.

Lack of discussion doesn't mean it's a non-issue. It means that we didn't discuss it. It was merely a case we didn't press because we had hoped our ceding the point would lead to better benefits down the road. We were wrong. Those benefits never manifest themselves in any serious way.

Quote from: Tank Burner on October 29, 2012, 04:14:07 pm
That's like me telling you I'm going to beat you up because you ate Grade B eggs for breakfast three months ago. It's stupid.

So we were supposed to forget that you pissed in our cornflakes? "It's stupid" because it's happening to you. You thought you were a wonderful friend. Surprise! You weren't.

Quote from: Tank Burner on October 29, 2012, 04:14:07 pm
The attack on Vengst, as you said, was your fault. I clearly stated (and I've said this plenty of times) that you guys need to inform us exactly when and how much goods you'll be bringing in. That could be interpreted as 1 crate, all the way up to 10,000. All you had to do was ask. But you and your leadership and Vengst failed to. Even in an attempt to get it remedied before any of our precious S&D was lost when we needed it most, we reached out. You guys didn't answer.

So please, stop saying it is our fault.

We are reasonable. We admitted partial fault in that Vengt left early from his "hold" because things were confusing. But just because one aspect of it was our fault doesn't make it entirely so. Under your logic, someone accidentally stepping onto your front lawn gives you full rights to blow their head off with a shotgun. It's only more sour for the headless man when he thinks he was going to be invited over for dinner sometime soon.

Moreover, you're only re-stating the confusion of these new "warn us on trades" terms. Now a "big trade" is 1 to 10,000? What? That wasn't even the deal you had posted. You said "big trades" then, and argue "any trades" now.

Lastly, you never lost anything on those attacks on AdalWulf or Vengt. You always just took what we had paid for. You never even lost troops- we never signed up against you. You returned 60% of Vengt's stuff, sure. Where's the other 40%? We were still waiting for days, and your excuses were only piling up. Where are the troops that we lost? We ate that cost to help you. I said it once, I'll say it again- you can't say we didn't try to work with you.

Quote from: Tank Burner on October 29, 2012, 04:14:07 pm
We have repaid what we've been able to, and movements were in order to repay the rest. You guys gave me your word that I would see Dutchy at least to Reyvadin, and only when you realize he carries a lot of goods, do you reneg on this deal, declare war, and attack him.

Now this isn't true. We never promised we wouldn't attack Dutchy, you just told us that he was coming. You trusted us, and we betrayed that trust. We also trusted you at one point. We'd been betrayed before, too. Those little agreements that never seemed to work out. Sucks, doesn't it?

Quote from: Tank Burner on October 29, 2012, 04:14:07 pm
Good day sir.

Et tu, Brute.
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Aderyn on October 29, 2012, 08:45:08 pm
Don't worry about lordark guys, we're on it.
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: TugBoat on October 29, 2012, 10:09:40 pm
Fallen just better hope FCC doesn't do a nonaggression pact for any length of time or I'll march my army on you before the week is up.
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Tanken on October 30, 2012, 01:40:27 am
Quote from: Garem on October 29, 2012, 06:45:38 pm
Words

Literally, everything falling out of your mouth, is bullshit and I know you know it too.


You literally just came to get your goods back, and I literally just told you about this maybe 3 days ago? I told you we would be delivering trade goods to you when we were able, and you pressed it no further. Either you Fallen guys are looking for a pretense for war (very sad I may add) or you're some really passive aggressive knaves about all of this.

And yes, you did give Dutchy clearance to enter and get through your land safely. God, why didn't I save the long of my talk with you and SmilingDaemon. Daemon clearly stated that Dutchy could pass safely through the lands. He barely made it to your first fief before you low-lifes kicked him out and attacked him.


Keep quoting my posts, keep responding to individual things in them Garem, but seriously. Come clean and own up to what you've done. You're declaring war for no other reason than to be greedy and pulling shit out of your ass to say it's reasoning. If it was reasoning, and you guys are so high and mighty on Diplomacy, why the hell didn't any of you come and talk to me about it? Sounds like some pussy stuff right there, Garem.
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Warcat on October 30, 2012, 01:59:26 am
Quote from: Tank Burner on October 30, 2012, 01:40:27 am
You're declaring war for no other reason than to be greedy and pulling shit out of your ass to say it's reasoning.

We're doing it for the Kittens of Zagush, there can be no greater reason!
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Garem on October 30, 2012, 02:06:40 am
60% is what I got back for Vengt, stated directly, already discussed. You stated yourself that you were unable to pay the rest and were losing the war. We weren't going to get the rest back and you damned well know it too, even if you wanted to. Well wishing us after the series of unfortunate events, of which you were the proximate cause, doesn't cut it, sorry. We had lost and stood to continue losing. NA Fallen isn't exactly a powerhouse, those losses mattered to us.

We never promised anything in regards to safe passage. You told us he was coming, we promised nothing. This war was already on the table for us, Dutchy just fell into our hands because you gave him to us. This wasn't a random decision to attack. It was cold, I'm not denying that, but it was calculated based upon all the aforementioned claims and issues raised. We're acting in self-interest because that's the world we live in. We're not going to keep up our already-borderline-amicable-and-continually-deteriorating relations with a sinking ship commanded by an unpredictable captain.

What we practice is Realpolitik (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realpolitik). This is nothing new. Power has shifted, and now we have the opportunity to recoup the losses that we couldn't afford to take that you imposed upon us.

You can make all the excuses and lay all the blame you want. I haven't denied any of it on our part. But if you seriously think you can get away with deflecting all that you're to blame for with your "woe is me", that's not going to kutt it. I'm not interested in pitying you, and I'm becoming irked that you seem to enjoy lavashing in it so. You're not innocent here, either.

We made accidental mistakes (Vengt not following orders, AdalWulf not understanding your definition of a "claim"). Yours were deliberate misdeeds- attacking both and asking questions later, repaying a mere 60% of goods and no troops at all to Vengt and yielding no patience to AdalWulf.

You reap what you sow. That you didn't see it coming because you were blind to your own misdeeds by just sweeping it under the rug isn't my fault.
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Tanken on October 30, 2012, 02:16:19 am
I'm not saying I'm innocent Garem. And I would always stick to my word about refunding what was lost of yours. Your fail attempts at being diplomatic are obviously not good. All you had to do was come and talk to us, but you didn't. We've been fair about everything, and yes, you did give Dutchy safe passage. Stop saying you didn't. We wouldn't have chose that route if not for the fact Daemon gave safe passage.

You guys, like I said, and was told before, just can't be trusted. It's quite obvious. I've given you my arguments, and shown your lies, anything from here on out would just be beating a dead horse.
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Herr_Thomas on October 30, 2012, 02:27:39 am
inb4 the guy literally named To_Kill_A_Dead_Horse.
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Garem on October 30, 2012, 02:48:08 am
"We were gonna repay ya, honest!"
"But we're doomed, have no active players, and are accepting our fate that we're going to get creamed by FCC."

You're telling two conflicting stories. We don't doubt your sincerity, we doubt your capability. Even if you wanted to pay us back, it wasn't going to happen. KUTT is doomed by your own admission and doing, and we're still owed a debt.

Seriously, Tanken. What would you do if you were us? I'm sincerely curious as to what you think the reasonable thing to do would be. Prove to me that you can logically argue that any other action would have certainly benefited us more.
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Tanken on October 30, 2012, 02:56:56 am
Well, I wouldn't throw away an alliance and a friendship that we've held strongly to just for the sake of winning. I figured you guys had more honor than that, but I am seeing that isn't the case. I don't think we'll get wiped. We may be crippled, but we will probably not be wiped--at least not right now. With you guys attacking our caravan of full reinforcements, you shot down the biggest chance that you had of getting repaid. Let's not act like 300 goods, perhaps 30k at best circumstance was a noble reason for going to war. We said we'd repay it, and if it meant giving you 300 goods from Dutchy's caravan right there on the spot, all you had to do was give the word.

The thought hadn't crossed my mind to do that, but you could have simply spoken to me instead of just looking at this in a "We must win," situation. Hell, Dutchy could have given you 500. All you had to do was talk to me.

But now you guys are showing your true face, your inability to cope with circumstances and your cowardess when you reneg on your own words. It's sickening that we still have people like yourselves getting to play Strategus. You would rather choose free land and an easy win instead of actually trying and contributing to a greater cause than that.
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: oohillac on October 30, 2012, 03:00:10 am
Quote from: Tank Burner on October 30, 2012, 01:40:27 am

And yes, you did give Dutchy clearance to enter and get through your land safely. God, why didn't I save the long of my talk with you and SmilingDaemon. Daemon clearly stated that Dutchy could pass safely through the lands. He barely made it to your first fief before you low-lifes kicked him out and attacked him.


Allow me to step in!

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Highlighted my favourite parts

And what have we here?
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THE PLOT THICKENS, EVEN MORE!:

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Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Garem on October 30, 2012, 03:05:20 am
Thank you, Oohillac.

You really gave us no better alternative. Whatever vague "honor" it might have been to try and help you in your death throes yielded to sanity and pragmatism.

Also, we never had an alliance. Nothing on the books, nothing off the books. We had some cooperation at the best of times, uncertainty was the norm, and ultimately a fruitless relationship that cost us dearly.
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Tanken on October 30, 2012, 03:14:12 am
Look right at your post, Daemon clearly states he can go through the territory. That applies safely.

Smiling Daemon: but right now due to our 2 caravans lost in the desert, will take us [  ] to recoup that gold

the [ ] was two weeks that you edited out. So why, if you don't have money to go to war, are you going? Daemon gave us clear access to your territory, I figured that your all's word carried weight. It obviously doesn't. I don't see you bolding that whole line.
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Tanken on October 30, 2012, 03:23:33 am
Quote from: Garem on October 30, 2012, 03:05:20 am
Also, we never had an alliance. Nothing on the books, nothing off the books. We had some cooperation at the best of times, uncertainty was the norm, and ultimately a fruitless relationship that cost us dearly.

Quote from: Tears of Destiny on September 12, 2012, 03:56:07 am
The Fallen Brigade for the next Strategus is mainly going to operate in two groups, one EU and one NA. While we will be under one "faction" for Strategus purposes we are going to have two different groups of officers and two logistical and tactical divisions.

The NA division (The officer commanding core being comprised of Me, Smiling and Hill) is interested in working with KUTT for the next Strategus. KUTT has demonstrated a reliability, maturity, coordination and skill (both individually and collectively as a team) that we are very interested in. Specifically, we would like to operate in NA lands and mainly work hand-in-hand with KUTT, acting as mercenaries-on-demand whenever you need support in a roster, and calling on you to do the same and basically working together. Our focus will mainly be in NA lands as we are the NA Division, and securing a small amount of territory as our own (such as a castle) to which we can stage raiding parties.

As with every Strategus the Fallen Brigade is starting with a new objective and no priority targets (AKA Grudges). We (The NA Division) are very interested in making you the first of our allies in Strategus 4. Please respond as soon as you can, as I would like to arrange a meeting with KUTT's officers and perhaps bring a few of my own to discuss specifics assuming you are interested.


Boom.

And it happened. And we did it. And we were always Allies. Nothing was written on the forums, because nothing needed to be written when both sides knew they were allies. Boom. Boom. Boom.


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Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Garem on October 30, 2012, 03:31:36 am
Except all those things in Tears' request never manifest themselves, ever. Every ounce of "help" we got was nominal, and what kind of ally (sic) attacks their ally's (sic) caravan?

I'm starting to sound like a broken record... "You can't say we didn't try."
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Tanken on October 30, 2012, 03:36:57 am
All those manifested. We stayed true to our word, we found territory with one another at the start, we aided what we could.

I attacked, and I've said this a million times, because you didn't come forth and talk to me and we couldn't afford to lose any S&D.



Your whole pretense for war, is wrong, and no matter how hard you wanna beat this dead horse, even people on your side of the war I am sure are seeing through the falsities of what you've done. If you guys just came out and told everyone it was for Greed, which it is, people would most likely just say "Well, yeah, it is. Fuck it." but the fact that you guys continue to lie about your intentions is pretty concerning. At least have the balls to state your intentions clearly, not sugarcoat them and twist them to fit what you think justifies it.
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Tears of Destiny on October 30, 2012, 03:40:52 am
Quote from: Tank Burner on October 30, 2012, 03:36:57 am
If you guys just came out and told everyone it was for Greed, which it is, people would most likely just say "Well, yeah, it is. Fuck it."


Erm...

[[My FIRST In-Character post]]
Quote from: Tears of Destiny on October 28, 2012, 10:44:04 am
"...the Coalition marches once more for plunder and riches..."


FUCK YEAH MONEY AND RICHES (sounds pretty greedy to me)


And erm, when someone asked for clarification my FIRST reply was...

[[My FIRST out-of-character post]]
Quote from: Tears of Destiny on October 28, 2012, 09:58:31 pm
...Greed, bloodlust, boredom, survival considering our neighbors and the future of the area...


So uh... Go find a big thick broom to screw around with?


Not my fault you bastards can't read, illiterate sods of tundra knighty nights  :rolleyes:


We have been pretty open on why we have been doing this, lazy clouts, all of you... And I'm still waiting for that coward TugBoat to accept my duel offer. He wanted one and was practically howling for one, I accepted, and the ninny then pretends, conveniently, that I don't exist (despite him continuing to reading my posts).  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Tanken on October 30, 2012, 03:43:54 am
Very well. It was just the constant babble from your men as to "Why" they went to war and the reasons that kept just making me think less and less of you.
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Tears of Destiny on October 30, 2012, 03:46:02 am
Quote from: Tank Burner on October 30, 2012, 03:43:54 am
Very well. It was just the constant babble from your men as to "Why" they went to war and the reasons that kept just making me think less and less of you.



Next thing I know KUTT will be saying the invasion and declaration was my idea and I ordered and orchestrated the whole thing and I'm in command of the Fallen Brigade and totally not a messenger  :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


But no, please, think less and less of me because the actions and words of other people anger you.  :rolleyes:


Enough of these tiresome and useless words, please just slaughter the bunch of us for battling is simple and open to little interpretation. I have little use for people like Lordak or Jambi or TugBoat or others who emulate them who don't bother to properly read things.

EDIT:

We may have stabbed you without warning, but we had the good decency to warn KUTT before hand instead of AFTER the fact, let one of your caravans slip by instead of ganking both, and then had the decency to openly tell you WHY we did such a thing. I can not and will not offer any more then that considering it is a damn sight more generous then we have ever given any the courtesy of in the entire history of the Brigade.

I can't even remember the last time the Fallen brigade actually gave the courtesy of declaring war instead of surprise backstabbing and ganking a target.

Saying we betrayed your trust is valid and I accept that, no arguments there.  What we have been arguing about is that the majority of KUTT leadership has simply not bothered to actually read WHY we went to war and is assuming half of it and only reading the other half and throwing baseless accusations at us.


And enough posting, and heavy editing. Yes we are all sons-of-bitches and you are anrgy, good day sir.
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Garem on October 30, 2012, 03:48:53 am
For fuck's sake look at our rosters... where the fuck is KUTT? Seven guys in sum in seven major battles EVER? If your talk was half as big as your game I'd be more willing to be sympathetic.

Good example: Malta is a FOUR man faction with which we have absolutely no direct relationship. They showed up five times. Goretooth has an equal or higher percentage rate of joining our battles than any of your players EVER did. Give me a fucking break, "alliance" my ass.

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Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Lt_Anders on October 30, 2012, 03:55:34 am
@NA fallen's

Still haven't paid me for my services in 2 battles.

Why i stopped fighting for you guys. Don't even bother paying 10(TEN) gold just to show up. Pay your mercs first.
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Tears of Destiny on October 30, 2012, 04:00:09 am
Quote from: Lt_Anders on October 30, 2012, 03:55:34 am
@NA fallen's

Still haven't paid me for my services in 2 battles.

Why i stopped fighting for you guys. Don't even bother paying 10(TEN) gold just to show up. Pay your mercs first.


I admit that we completely ignore the gold requested unless the merc in question actually PMs us about it, as we get a lot of "silly" requests and half of our officers are still used to that feature being broken.


I'll go through the logs and pay you that gold in the next 48 hours, thank you for bringing it to my attention. This was the first I've been informed.


Again, I apologize, we are just simply not in the habit of paying mercs unless A.) They inform us explicitly or B.) We explicitly hire them, as the majority of people are just hoodlums inserting random nonsensical numbers.
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Tanken on October 30, 2012, 04:02:37 am
Quote from: Garem on October 30, 2012, 03:48:53 am
For fuck's sake look at our rosters... where the fuck is KUTT? Seven guys in sum in seven major battles EVER? If your talk was half as big as your game I'd be more willing to be sympathetic.

Good example: Malta is a FOUR man faction with which we have absolutely no direct relationship. They showed up five times. Goretooth has an equal or higher percentage rate of joining our battles than any of your players EVER did. Give me a fucking break, "alliance" my ass.

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Look at the size of each of those battles. Extremely small. And when I see Coalition on the battle page, I hardly remember it is the Fallens on NA. There are so many Coalition conflicts, that without at least letting me know of these battles, chances are they won't be attended.


Yes Tears, I failed the read the entirety of your post. I found it boring. It was the comments as to -why- (like I've said) that just made me laugh and shake my head. The position remains. You can't be trusted, and you are dishonorable leaders.
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Tears of Destiny on October 30, 2012, 04:07:46 am

Quote from: Tank Burner on October 30, 2012, 04:02:37 am
Yes Tears, I failed the read the entirety of your post. I found it boring.
It was a DECLARATION OF WAR (mebe important to read?) and very short but with BIG letters! Oh you silly tanken you...
Quote from: Tank Burner on October 30, 2012, 04:02:37 am
You can't be trusted, and you dishonorable leaders.
Please if you would so kindly click the link as well as take  agander at the picture itself?

Join the Fallen Brigade Todayvisitors can't see pics , please register or login
 (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,35558.0.html)Join the Fallen Brigade Today

Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Warcat on October 30, 2012, 04:11:17 am
Personally I have to thank KUTT for paying me 100g after one battle, 5x more than all my other payments combined. I never request payments as getting to fight in a good battle is payment enough for me, that's the main reason I'm glad we're going to war (other than the expansion of the legal kitten trade). Fallen can finally have some good fights on the NA side, hopefully fun for all. Looking forward to fighting in Reyvadin as Jacko did an excellent job working on that map.
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: BaleOhay on October 30, 2012, 05:02:19 am
man this has taken a turn. Not sure who to root for in this one honestly.

use the disclaimer... My opinions are my own and not the FCC or leadership blah blah.

Fallen drops a notch because they waited to see how well FCC would do in the war and figured hey lets jump the guy while he is down. Can not really feel to good about that.

Kutt on the other hand is at war with us and can be at times very prideful.

Tough choice honestly. I like members on both sides of the fence. I will merc for whoever hires me i think in this one.
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Tanken on October 30, 2012, 05:16:47 am
I'm gonna go ahead and drop this.



Wtf just happened. Welp, no one gave him the clearance to retreat. I don't know what prompted him to do so. Just a huge brain fart. It's kind of comical now. The teamspeak exploded, and I think I need to replace my headset earpiece after I threw the shit out of my headset against the wall.


What a hilarious defeat, and to think it came at our own hands. Btw, this patch's bugs should have just paused strategus and battle tab temporarily.
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Dutchydave on October 30, 2012, 05:25:21 am
Yeah sorry everyone I dont know what I was thinking,I had a massive brain explossion :oops:
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Garem on October 30, 2012, 05:30:25 am
We were wondering wtf was going on. We were having a hell of a time and the XP in that battle was awesome. Best fight I've had in a long, long time.

I echo Tanken. Damnit, Dutchy! >.>

We had a full roster, but somehow a lot of folks didn't get in. And quite a few still hadn't finished downloading that enormous patch.
Why the disconnects at the beginning? Bug or Hurricane Sandy?
So yea, lots of surrounding problems.

Fortunately, it was an even 38 v. 38 fight. I think it's a good time to note, 50 man rosters are a little extensive. NA doesn't have the random mercs that EU has, or the enormous playerbase. Think we should ask for smaller max roster sizes for NA?
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Tanken on October 30, 2012, 05:33:02 am
It's okay Dutchy, it fits the comical side of everything thus far.


I think the biggest problem with everyone crashing is half of us were still downloading or stalled on the patch, so we launched normal Warband and the second it read a foreign armor like one of the new ones, it crashed all of us.

I doubt you had new armors or weapons in your arsenal, but the bugs with the misdisplay of weapons and armors and horses (those Warhorses were Rounceys lololol) it probably displayed some new armor or weapon in place of one that would have probably been okay for most to see.



Sucks balls. I made it back in for 1 death before we QMRS'd.  :(
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Warcat on October 30, 2012, 05:37:03 am
Sounds like it was a great fight, shame so many on both sides were having problems with this patch.
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Garem on October 30, 2012, 05:37:21 am
Yea, SmilingDaemon's patch took 2 hours. I think it's still running.

We had no new armors, we'd initiated the battle before they were even put in. Who had warhorses? We had rounceys too.
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Nightingale on October 30, 2012, 05:40:37 am
Quote from: Dutchydave on October 30, 2012, 05:25:21 am
Yeah sorry everyone I dont know what I was thinking,I had a massive brain explossion :oops:

Its okay dutchy everyone makes mistakes! even if it costs the freedom for future evil kitten eating or whatever we agreed to on the other thread...

Oh ya The freedom of eating Adorable sinister/evil kittens.
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: The_Slim on October 30, 2012, 05:42:40 am
Was looking forward to fighting this battle a lot, very important one for us.

Damn this patch to hell.
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Keshian on October 30, 2012, 05:43:35 am
Don't worry, it was already going 3:2 K/D in our favor, only would have bled a 100-140 more troops with what you had left, retreat didnt change too much.
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Nightingale on October 30, 2012, 05:45:46 am
Quote from: Keshian on October 30, 2012, 05:43:35 am
Don't worry, it was already going 3:2 K/D in our favor, only would have bled a 100-140 more troops with what you had left, retreat didnt change too much.

Pssh that is like 4 more hours of eating sinister kittens in the halls of Revyadin! of course it makes a difference!

Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Herr_Thomas on October 30, 2012, 05:47:46 am
Quote from: Scilla on October 30, 2012, 05:45:46 am
Pssh that is like 4 more hours of eating sinister kittens in the halls of Revyadin! of course it makes a difference!



He's obviously never eaten a sinister kitten. He won't understand.
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Boss_Awesome on October 30, 2012, 07:03:28 am
Quote from: Herr_Thomas on October 30, 2012, 05:47:46 am
He's obviously never eaten a sinister kitten. He won't understand.

He has.  We have proof.
Title: Re: The Truth Behind Tears' Declaration of War
Post by: Warcat on October 30, 2012, 09:48:56 am
I think he was referring to Kesh