cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Kulin_ban on October 16, 2012, 07:46:13 pm

Title: HACKED
Post by: Kulin_ban on October 16, 2012, 07:46:13 pm
HACKED
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: Teeth on October 16, 2012, 07:48:39 pm
We could really use something like this to spice up the combat. Add a new layer, tough to balance though.
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: Bjord on October 16, 2012, 07:53:17 pm
Should not work with all weapons, is all I'm gonna say.

One word: Maulsgonnamaul.
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: Rhekimos on October 16, 2012, 07:59:44 pm
Sounds like an advantage for the players with the best pings.
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: Rhekimos on October 16, 2012, 08:13:56 pm
It does not sound like anything yet. You can not know for sure how it would work out. Everything else is just speculation.

Quote
Parrying at the right time will cause the attacker to be stunned longer giving the defender a longer window for a counter-attack.

It sounds very time critical, and as such will be mostly beneficial those with the best pings.

Maybe the devs can sprinkle some magic dust on it to make it a wonderful addition to all players, and not something that greatly benefits a fraction of the players, but that seems far less likely.

And what's this about "just speculation"? Isn't your poll and thread all about asking the playerbase if they imagine the feature would make cRPG better?



Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: Arathian on October 16, 2012, 08:46:24 pm
I approve.
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: Teeth on October 16, 2012, 08:57:51 pm
Sounds like an advantage for the players with the best pings.
So is chamberblocking, directional blocking and kicks. Using this logic we can only play chess multiplayer.
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: Son Of Odin on October 16, 2012, 09:04:56 pm
Should not work with all weapons, is all I'm gonna say.

One word: Maulsgonnamaul.
This true.

Tap-blocking could potentially be magnificent counter for hilt slash spamming. Hmm why not. Let's test it?
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: LordBerenger on October 16, 2012, 09:27:35 pm
It sounds very time critical, and as such will be mostly beneficial those with the best pings.

Maybe the devs can sprinkle some magic dust on it to make it a wonderful addition to all players, and not something that greatly benefits a fraction of the players, but that seems far less likely.

And what's this about "just speculation"? Isn't your poll and thread all about asking the playerbase if they imagine the feature would make cRPG better?

I constantly play with 110-120 ping on NA1/2 server. Sure melee-wise i'm at a disadvantage but i can easily fix that with going cav lancer, mauler, archer, tincan or shielder.
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: Teeth on October 16, 2012, 09:29:06 pm
I constantly play with 110-120 ping on NA1/2 server. Sure melee-wise i'm at a disadvantage but i can easily fix that with going cav lancer, mauler, archer, tincan or shielder.
And the fact that NA players are shit also helps :wink:
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: Rhekimos on October 16, 2012, 09:43:06 pm
So is chamberblocking, directional blocking and kicks. Using this logic we can only play chess multiplayer.

Derp. Not giving MORE advantages to low ping players makes this game chess?


I constantly play with 110-120 ping on NA1/2 server. Sure melee-wise i'm at a disadvantage but i can easily fix that with going cav lancer, mauler, archer, tincan or shielder.

Yeah, melee is horrible even with a semi-decent ping like 100 ms. Most games have anti-lag features that would compensate for that much ping.


If you have high ping, you will always be at disadvantage in a melee part of cRPG.

As for speculation: I had to comment since I felt like you were not giving this suggestion a chance.
I mean, you voted no because ping difference MIGHT affect gameplay...

Or maybe I offered something for consideration if the devs choose to implement this, and I voted no because I thought it wouldn't make for better gameplay. You only assume I gave the feature no chance.

But alas, the -1 storm strikes if you mention any potential flaw in a new feature.
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: cmp on October 16, 2012, 10:07:53 pm
However, it was removed (some say due to improvements on chamber blocking, some say due to it being to buggy  impossible to fix).

Nah, it was removed because it was a huge advantage for the few good players (not many of those in early beta), and the majority of noobs whined about it. That shouldn't be a problem now that everyone and his mother knows how to manual block at least to some extent.

cmp already mentioned possibility of this being introduced at some point, so this is also addressed to him as a reminder.

It's one of the top things on my todo list. It can't be done until we break compatibility and everyone uses the new client, though.
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: Elindor on October 16, 2012, 10:15:24 pm
Hmm, interesting - a "timed parry".  Kinda fills a niche between a chamber and a held parry I guess.
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: Teeth on October 16, 2012, 10:19:17 pm
Derp. Not giving MORE advantages to low ping players makes this game chess?
Stomping on any idea that might make the game harder for the half percent that plays with a 100+ ping before having any clue how it would play out, yeah that kind of attitude wouldn't have gotten multiplayer gaming past chess.

Luckily we are way past making games so that people from Nepal can play as well. The blocking and attacking system is high ping unfriendly to the extent that this suggestion wouldn't change anything. You do not even have to be faster with your block to do this. If you can block now, you can also tap it, as blocking an attack means clicking RMB before the attack hits you. You would have the same window to do this, you just need to get the timing right. Once you get a feel for it, you will be able to do it consistently, even if it means clicking a bit before the attack hits you on your screen. Whether you have 30 ms or 150, you develop your timing based on what works, not necessarily on what you see.

I can consistently chamberblock on NA, once I work out when to do it.
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: Bjord on October 16, 2012, 10:22:00 pm
Who cares what kind of advantage it gives good players. Sure, it makes it considerably easier with lower ping, but the difference is very small. I can chamber semi-consistently with 125 ping on NA, and mostly only together with position and anticipation of the swing.

Fast weapons are very hard though, so if you're looking for unfair weapons you want to look at weapons like elite scimitar, steel pick and other incredi-fast 1h weapons.
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: TurmoilTom on October 16, 2012, 10:45:01 pm
This suggestion gave my 20 ping a boner.
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: Rhekimos on October 16, 2012, 10:59:28 pm
Stomping on any idea that might make the game harder for the half percent that plays with a 100+ ping before having any clue how it would play out, yeah that kind of attitude wouldn't have gotten multiplayer gaming past chess.

Surely you can see that a consistent gaming experience for all non-ridiculous pings is a good thing? And please drop the chess red herring already, nobody is arguing for making cRPG turn based.

Quote
Whether you have 30 ms or 150, you develop your timing based on what works, not necessarily on what you see.

Blind fighting?

And it certainly was like that when I tried out the China server to see what kind of effect a bigger ping would have. You simply could not trust what you saw on the screen, and blocks had to start when you saw the enemy begin to move his weapon in to the attack position in order to register in time.

Quote
I can consistently chamberblock on NA, once I work out when to do it.

Clap clap.
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: STR_KpuBopy4ka on October 17, 2012, 12:24:20 pm
Sounds like buff for chambers so ... yes!
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: Fartface on October 17, 2012, 01:44:48 pm
penis.
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: Vibe on October 17, 2012, 02:36:31 pm
Isn't something like this already in with blocking the stab at the right time/range?

I'm talking about if someone blocks your stab at the end of animation you won't be able to block the next attack in time, granting the enemy a free hit on you. Happens rarely, but I've seen some people can actually pull this off quite frequently (Hearst).

Or is that a bug?
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: [ptx] on October 17, 2012, 02:39:56 pm
It's because stab gets stunned from being blocked more so than even from being chamberblocked. Not related to this, although it would give even more free hit vs stabs.
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: Vibe on October 17, 2012, 02:44:04 pm
It's because stab gets stunned from being blocked more so than even from being chamberblocked. Not related to this, although it would give even more free hit vs stabs.

I think it's lame. Yeah maybe they should deal with the stab, but not by granting the enemy free hits on you. Everything should have a counter.
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: [ptx] on October 17, 2012, 02:46:55 pm
Yeah, it is annoying, but you generally need to be in facehug range to make use of the free hit anyway, so that kind of punishes for that.
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: Haboe on October 17, 2012, 02:49:05 pm
Was really the only the only thing i used to blok in early beta.
All my block were tabblock-attack in the same tenth of a second. Guaranteed block or chamber and helped me kill the entire enemy team more then once  :twisted:
But yea, on average there were 5 ppl on eu1 at the time taht actually knew how to block  :mrgreen:

EDIT:
Never used a shield back then, so how did it work with shields? :P
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: [ptx] on October 17, 2012, 02:50:23 pm
Less damage for shields, afaik.
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: Teeth on October 17, 2012, 03:18:25 pm
I think it's lame. Yeah maybe they should deal with the stab, but not by granting the enemy free hits on you. Everything should have a counter.
Yes, the stab stun is the counter to the now almighty 2h stab. Yet that is not enough cause every 2h I duel does 50% stabs. I rarely get a free hit in due to stab stun, not even with chambers.
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: Kaoklai on October 17, 2012, 07:12:08 pm
I am curious as to how this would affect chambers.  Can't see it giving less time to respond than chambers, which are already eminently blockable, so I wonder where it would fit in.  Excited to find out once it's implemented. 
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: Sarpton on October 17, 2012, 08:55:02 pm
Nah, it was removed because it was a huge advantage for the few good players (not many of those in early beta), and the majority of noobs whined about it. That shouldn't be a problem now that everyone and his mother knows how to manual block at least to some extent.

It's one of the top things on my todo list. It can't be done until we break compatibility and everyone uses the new client, though.


What do you mean by, "break compatibility"?  Just for my general knowledge.
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: Teeth on October 17, 2012, 08:58:46 pm
I think seperating cRPG from Warband by using a completely seperate client for cRPG.
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: [ptx] on October 17, 2012, 09:12:32 pm
Or perhaps updating the beta client to make full use of its features, but it no longer being compatible with the normal client. Right now, beta client users play on the same servers as the rest of players.
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: Sarpton on October 17, 2012, 10:04:17 pm
OH,  neat thanks guys.
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on October 17, 2012, 10:33:06 pm
break compability with DOS, maybe?
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: DarkFox on October 22, 2012, 10:47:04 pm
Nice, but I cant see the sense. Another high risk no reward mechanic. This will make players to hold every their attack for 10 seconds even more.
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: Byrdi on October 23, 2012, 12:11:48 am
Why would we add this when we already have the chamber option, this is just a less risky and more rewarding version. Which is stupid.

Rather add what stun you want from tab block to chamber blocks.

Also think it would make combat more boring because everyone would be hold attacking all the time.

Its really nice with some initiatives and new/reused ideas, but please dont change for the sake of changing.
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: Phew on October 23, 2012, 05:14:17 pm
Why would we add this when we already have the chamber option, this is just a less risky and more rewarding version. Which is stupid.

Rather add what stun you want from tab block to chamber blocks.

Also think it would make combat more boring because everyone would be hold attacking all the time.

Its really nice with some initiatives and new/reused ideas, but please dont change for the sake of changing.

QFT. Chambering is already high risk/low reward, add parrying and there is no incentive to chamber. Instead of stunning the person you block, landing a parry  should give you some kind of bonus (speed, damage, whatever) on your next attack. The stun should be reserved for being chamber blocked (this actually makes physical sense, since having your swing met by another would probably stun you in reality).
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: DarkFox on October 23, 2012, 07:36:52 pm
When we will see some big changes btw? cRPG didnt had any serious patches for a long time.
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: Vibe on October 24, 2012, 10:11:49 am
soontm

more like:

not soontm
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: Byrdi on October 24, 2012, 10:14:17 am
soontm

No more December 2010?
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: Jarlek on October 24, 2012, 01:30:26 pm
As a guy who does held attacks 99% of the time, I support this!

Although how would this work if people are "spamming" blocks? Some sort of delay on the parry or something? A small window where the parry isn't active?
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: Angantyr on October 24, 2012, 02:05:08 pm
Always wondered why this was taken out of the build as most people seemed in favour of it, added a nice extra layer to combat.

Maybe even the old unique parry animations are still useful?

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: cmp on October 24, 2012, 02:38:23 pm
I still haven't decided whether a good parry should mean increased attacker stun or decreased defender stun (or both). Suggestions are welcome.
Held attacks will be changed so that holding too much will result in a damage decrease (currently held attacks reach 150% damage at 0.6s, then go down to 120% and stay there). That should get rid of holding contests, unless one wants to deal ridiculously low damage and risk glancing.

When we will see some big changes btw? cRPG didnt had any serious patches for a long time.
soontm
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: Gravoth_iii on October 24, 2012, 02:48:25 pm
I still haven't decided whether a good parry should mean increased attacker stun or decreased defender stun (or both). Suggestions are welcome.
Held attacks will be changed so that holding too much will result in a damage decrease (currently held attacks reach 150% damage at 0.6s, then go down to 120% and stay there). That should get rid of holding contests, unless one wants to deal ridiculously low damage and risk glancing.

Sounds great! Also if the parry is going to stun people and leave them open for an attack it has to very hard to pull off. Maybe parry should stop the attackers movement so if quick enough you can land a kick right after a parry which would then result in an open guard, because this would mean that a lucky parry wouldnt give a free hit, only the parries that are planned and the kick being timed fast enough would pay off.   :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: [ptx] on October 24, 2012, 02:49:45 pm
I vote for decreased defender stun.
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: Vibe on October 24, 2012, 02:53:07 pm
I still haven't decided whether a good parry should mean increased attacker stun or decreased defender stun (or both). Suggestions are welcome.

Maybe it should stun both: attacker more than defender though, but should still allow the attacker to block the next attack from the defender (kind of like chambering). Advantage would be getting a free hit on the attacker if it's a 1vs2 scenario: attacker attacks, first defender parries, second defender gets a free hit in.
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: Chasey on October 24, 2012, 03:21:44 pm
Maybe it should stun both: attacker more than defender though, but should still allow the attacker to block the next attack from the defender (kind of like chambering). Advantage would be getting a free hit on the attacker if it's a 1vs2 scenario: attacker attacks, first defender parries, second defender gets a free hit in.
this , make it like chambering, if your quick enough you can block. Dont just give it a free hit, due to long stun times
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: Rhekimos on October 24, 2012, 03:25:22 pm
this , make it like chambering, if your quick enough you can block. Dont just give it a free hit, due to long stun times

This. No free-hit mechanism, please.
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: cmp on October 24, 2012, 06:47:40 pm
I would prefer to avoid making major changes (like adding a stamina-like system). If necessary chamber blocks can be made harder/more rewarding/whatever is needed to make a place for parries.

This. No free-hit mechanism, please.

Free hits are lame, definitely out of the question.
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: Phew on October 24, 2012, 07:25:33 pm
Free hits are lame, definitely out of the question.

Some clarification: do you define a "free hit" as an unblockable hit (like when you are knocked down, for instance), or just a mechanism that allows someone to attack twice in a row without having to block in between swings?

If it's the latter, then consider toning down block stun on held attacks while you are at it. I hate how someone can hold an attack with a Morningstar, hit my shield (stunning me), then get a free second hit on my shield before I even have a chance to retaliate. My shield is half broken before I even get to swing.
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: DarkFox on October 24, 2012, 09:13:26 pm
What will actually make me use parrys instead of blocks? After block I can successfully countrattack anyway, not matter how fast enemys weapon is. This small stun wont give me any real advantages.
 As I see it you should nerf blocks somehow. There should be something that will punish people for being too passive, or we will still have           
patience >skill situation.
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: Lech on October 24, 2012, 10:27:06 pm
I still haven't decided whether a good parry should mean increased attacker stun or decreased defender stun (or both). Suggestions are welcome.
Held attacks will be changed so that holding too much will result in a damage decrease (currently held attacks reach 150% damage at 0.6s, then go down to 120% and stay there). That should get rid of holding contests, unless one wants to deal ridiculously low damage and risk glancing.

Woah! Something to stop holding contests, bring it on. It's one of the most stupid features right now.
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: Pollux on October 25, 2012, 03:36:49 am
parrying should only be available to weapons that don't already have block (daggers)
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: Byrdi on October 25, 2012, 11:35:40 am
I would prefer to avoid making major changes (like adding a stamina-like system). If necessary chamber blocks can be made harder/more rewarding/whatever is needed to make a place for parries.

Please don't make chambers more difficult, just to make room for some new feature.
Also I don't quite get this parry thing. Why not just chamber an attack (with the intend of chamber blocking) instead of tabbing block?

The main reason why there aren't more people who chamber block is because they never bothered to learn it. Why not work on the current features we have instead of dumbing down and making new features that are easier or removing some to make things easier (nerfed turnspeed)?
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: Kafein on October 25, 2012, 11:35:51 am
I prefer an increased attack stun. At least enough to prevent the attacker to try any kind of lame double hit trick.

Also, if the balance team believes long and heavy weapons should be globally nerfed (or, equivalently, that short and light weapons should be buffed), what about increasing the recovery time the longer and the heavier the "deflected" weapon is ? It only makes sense a big ass two handed axe is harder to put back in ready position when your swing has been deflected, than a much lighter longsword for example. Also, this could apply to any swing that only hits air.

As for balancing it with chamberblocking, maybe chamberblock attacks could be faster so that it actually rewards the ones that pull off the move. I recently chamberblocked someone on purpose in siege mode just for the heck of it, and the guy just blocked my attack. Chamberblocking is very high risk, almost no reward right now.
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: Patoson on October 25, 2012, 08:13:54 pm
I voted yes.

Chamberblocking is very high risk, almost no reward right now.

That might be true, unless you chamber-block someone with a high ping, like me, who can't block the chamber, especially if the weapon is fast.
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: SixThumbs on October 25, 2012, 08:36:54 pm
Personally I almost always tap block and this would just increase the use of half second holds which visibly already look like they're going through my weapon into me.

I can see this putting people with a short weapon even more at a disadvantage before melee combat actually begins. Couldn't you just hold every consecutive attack you make for that half second unless the defender shifts the cadence to tap block a hold?
Title: Re: Parrying (tap-blocking) from Warband beta 0.650
Post by: Vodner on October 25, 2012, 09:57:01 pm
That might be true, unless you chamber-block someone with a high ping, like me, who can't block the chamber, especially if the weapon is fast.
When you see that an enemy isn't blocking your swing, try switching to a block under the assumption that they are going for a chamber. This usually works for me when I hop on the EU duel server (which gives me a fairly high ping).