cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Dravic on April 16, 2011, 10:19:29 pm

Title: Horse Crossbowman "sucks"
Post by: Dravic on April 16, 2011, 10:19:29 pm
Hello!

A lot of people says in public that:

"HC sucks"
"HC can't compete with HA"
"You can't kill anything with that funny crossbow"
"You are shit not a horseman"

etc.

Look at this screen:

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 (http://img27.imageshack.us/i/mb210.jpg/)

As you can see, I had almost equal score as Tuonela. Now something kinda funny:

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 (http://img24.imageshack.us/i/mb209.jpg/)

32 lvl? Cool. I talked with Tuonela, and he said that he was tired. Anyway:

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 (http://img694.imageshack.us/i/mb211.jpg/)

I am not saying that HA is worse - no! HA is actually better in right hands. What I want to say is:

HC is an useful class. Admit it.

PS

My build at 30 lvl (for interested):

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

Strength: 7
Agility: 30
Hit points: 42
Converted: 4
Ironflesh: 0
Power Strike: 2
Shield: 0
Athletics: 0
Riding: 10
Horse Archery: 5
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 0
Weapon Master: 10
One Handed: 1
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 1
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 190
Throwing: 1
Title: Re: Horse Crossbowman "sucks"
Post by: IG_Saint on April 16, 2011, 10:40:49 pm
pure HC vs pure HA, the HA definitely wins the better class award.  HC just have more options to hybridize. For instance my HC (ballsy) has this build:

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

    * Strength: 18
    * Agility: 18
    * Hit points: 59

    * Converted: 2
    * Ironflesh: 3
    * Power Strike: 6
    * Shield: 0
    * Athletics: 5
    * Riding: 6
    * Horse Archery: 3
    * Power Draw: 0
    * Power Throw: 0
    * Weapon Master: 6

    * One Handed: 1
    * Two Handed: 118
    * Polearm: 50
    * Archery: 1
    * Crossbow: 110
    * Throwing: 1

Perfect for harrasing enemies in close combat and still effective on foot and even in duels. I am kinda regretting the 50 polearm though. Not because it isn't usefull, or because I'm lacking in other wpf (120 melee wpf is more than enough for me), but simply because I rarely use lances, prefering to just use my bastard or longsword. It does mean I'm not that effective against real cav, but a lot of cav fall for a simple ctrl-J trick, allowing you to slash them a bit, followed up by a shot to take out their horse. Once they're dishorsed, just close in, block their stab and bump slash 'em to death.
Title: Re: Horse Crossbowman "sucks"
Post by: Wulzzz on April 16, 2011, 10:45:23 pm
Yea, HC are able to use a much superior build but you need to hierloom the lightxbow or its way too slow.
Title: Re: Horse Crossbowman "sucks"
Post by: Casimir on April 16, 2011, 11:00:44 pm
HC is a joke
Title: Re: Horse Crossbowman "sucks"
Post by: Murmillus_Prime on April 16, 2011, 11:09:06 pm
Best thing about HC is the damage!
Title: Re: Horse Crossbowman "sucks"
Post by: PsyKoZe on April 16, 2011, 11:24:01 pm
Quote from: Casimir on April 16, 2011, 11:00:44 pm
HC is a joke

So are you :lol:

Anyway i like the idea i'll try it:D
Title: Re: Horse Crossbowman "sucks"
Post by: LordRichrich on April 16, 2011, 11:45:06 pm
Best HC build IM is 12/24. Enough str to use heavy xbow when you go inf and enough PS to be good in melee
also 100 wpf in 1h (post patch) is awesome
Title: Re: Horse Crossbowman "sucks"
Post by: IG_Saint on April 16, 2011, 11:54:37 pm
Quote from: LordRichrich on April 16, 2011, 11:45:06 pm
Best HC build IM is 12/24. Enough str to use heavy xbow when you go inf and enough PS to be good in melee
also 100 wpf in 1h (post patch) is awesome

Why would you go 1h as a HC? light xbow+bolts=2 slots, so you can still take a 2h or polearm. You could take a 1h+shield, but I see little point in that. Usually it's your horse that gets killed, shield costs skill points and 2h/pole both do more damage and are easier to use with little wpf.
Title: Re: Horse Crossbowman "sucks"
Post by: Paul on April 16, 2011, 11:57:58 pm
With the upcoming slot mechanic going 1 hand makes sense.
Title: Re: Horse Crossbowman "sucks"
Post by: Kafein on April 17, 2011, 12:01:11 am
Quote from: Paul on April 16, 2011, 11:57:58 pm
With the upcoming slot mechanic going 1 hand makes sense.

And it's better for people trying to roleplay a plausible crossbowman.
Title: Re: Horse Crossbowman "sucks"
Post by: Seawied on April 17, 2011, 01:09:39 am
Hey you posted my exact build!  :shock:




I have to say, out of the two, horse crossbowmen is significantly weaker than HA. Going a pure horse Xbow should only be done by people going for style points.


In a battle between the two, a HA would easily win between evenly matched players. The rate of fire disadvantage to the crossbowman paired with in ability to use cover like an infantry crossbowmen is pretty damning.
Title: Re: Horse Crossbowman "sucks"
Post by: Lt_Anders on April 17, 2011, 01:52:00 am
OOH! HX my baby!

(click to show/hide)

Equally good at Infantry Foot, Infantry Range, Mounted Range, Mounted Lace. Downside, your never faster than the pures in all 4 of those categories. Sadly, I can't use my horse and Xbow that often. The NA servers don't have a lot of Cav based maps. I can beat most HA's though. Use Sarranid and a LXbow (Heirlooming that next!) and you can beat HA's most times. But, don't try to kill the HA, Go for the horse. It's really the way to go.

Oh, and if you want, Plated charger and Full black armor. Yea, you might suck but you aren't going down ;p.
Title: Re: Horse Crossbowman "sucks"
Post by: IG_Saint on April 17, 2011, 02:26:40 am
Quote from: Paul on April 16, 2011, 11:57:58 pm
With the upcoming slot mechanic going 1 hand makes sense.

Why? You can't reload anything above light crossbow on horse, so thats light crossbow+bolts=2 slots? that means 2 slots left for a 2h or a spear/lance. As a foot crossbowman going 1 hand makes sense. I don't see the point in doing in as a HC.
Title: Re: Horse Crossbowman "sucks"
Post by: owens on April 17, 2011, 03:14:33 am
really bad class of fighter less damage slower rate of fore heavier weaker stupider
Title: Re: Horse Crossbowman "sucks"
Post by: Seawied on April 17, 2011, 07:54:41 am
Quote from: owens on April 17, 2011, 03:14:33 am
really bad class of fighter less damage slower rate of fore heavier weaker stupider

It has its advantages. Its more accurate than a horse archer, it deals pierce damage instead of cut, and its faster on horseback than the horse archer.


Overall though, in my opinion, a horse archer is a stronger class.
Title: Re: Horse Crossbowman "sucks"
Post by: BlackMilk on April 17, 2011, 09:46:03 am
Quote from: Casimir on April 16, 2011, 11:00:44 pm
HC is a joke
Title: Re: Horse Crossbowman "sucks"
Post by: Tuonela on April 17, 2011, 11:00:57 am
HC has weapon that does 47 pierce damage and with ha5 you probably can shoot tincans at high speed. But if any HA who can actually shoot from horseback engages you, you die. He can interrupt you from reloading by hitting you, if he shoots your horse you must stand still to reload. I would say HC is close to HA, your success depends highly on what kind of troops enemy has. But for HC, it doesn't matter so much even if enemies were heavily armoured.

Also, I wasn't yesterday tired, it was day before yesterday I said it.
Title: Re: Horse Crossbowman "sucks"
Post by: Magikarp on April 17, 2011, 11:51:01 am
I think a Mounted Crossbowman is a fun class to play. But it's too dependant on heirlooms.
Even when wielding a masterwork light xbow, it just doesn't do enough damage.
Unlike a horsearcher, you are almost useless on foot.

Horse archers have the advantage, sadly.
Title: Re: Horse Crossbowman "sucks"
Post by: LordRichrich on April 17, 2011, 11:52:29 am
Quote from: IG_Saint on April 17, 2011, 02:26:40 am
Why? You can't reload anything above light crossbow on horse, so thats light crossbow+bolts=2 slots? that means 2 slots left for a 2h or a spear/lance. As a foot crossbowman going 1 hand makes sense. I don't see the point in doing in as a HC.
Any horse xbow worth his salt needs more than 15 or 20 bolts
If you die before that, try a new class :P
And what about when you get dismounted? Fighting with a 1h is a lot easier than with a lance
Title: Re: Horse Crossbowman "sucks"
Post by: Magikarp on April 17, 2011, 11:55:04 am
Quote from: LordRichrich on April 17, 2011, 11:52:29 am
Any horse xbow worth his salt needs more than 15 or 20 bolts
If you die before that, try a new class :P
And what about when you get dismounted? Fighting with a 1h is a lot easier than with a lance
With 0 ps and 7 str you won't be doing much damage anyway. It's better to go for a lance which you can couch for an instant kill.
Title: Re: Horse Crossbowman "sucks"
Post by: LordRichrich on April 17, 2011, 12:27:07 pm
Quote from: Magikarp on April 17, 2011, 11:55:04 am
With 0 ps and 7 str you won't be doing much damage anyway. It's better to go for a lance which you can couch for an instant kill.
With 12 str and 4PS you can do fine lol
You don't need 30 AGI :')
I'm nearly fully accurate with just 150ish xbow wpf and 3 HA
Title: Re: Horse Crossbowman "sucks"
Post by: Murmillus_Prime on April 17, 2011, 12:30:17 pm
I did fine with 120xbow wpf, masterwork light xbow and 3 HA. Got a few headshots on HA's now and then, felt great. :P When I got dismounted I'd switch to masterwork lhb and spam til death.
Title: Re: Horse Crossbowman "sucks"
Post by: MouthnHoof on April 18, 2011, 11:25:46 am
HC are not bad, they are just lame.

What was the point of the thread?
Title: Re: Horse Crossbowman "sucks"
Post by: Kophka on April 18, 2011, 02:21:40 pm
Mounted Crossbowmen have one advantage over HA. The ability to hold a shot for as long as they need to line it up. Brought down many a HA by just following him around, zigging right when needed, then nailing him (his horse, usually) when he made that slow hard left to try to hit me. Not that fun to have to walk back to the battle, is it you jerks?  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Horse Crossbowman "sucks"
Post by: Dravic on April 18, 2011, 04:50:02 pm
Quote from: MouthnHoof on April 18, 2011, 11:25:46 am
HC are not bad, they are just lame.

What was the point of the thread?

First, if anyone, you are lame. You know, HC are not meant to ride slowly at you so you can kill them easily... Same every cavalry. If a HC destroys you 1vs1, it means, that you don't have enough skill. If you didn't have any counter to them (no ranged weapons) - blame yourself, not HC.

Second, the point of this thread was to show, that HC is a proper class, that can kill enemy.
Title: Re: Horse Crossbowman "sucks"
Post by: MouthnHoof on April 18, 2011, 11:36:18 pm
Quote from: Dravic on April 18, 2011, 04:50:02 pm
...
If you didn't have any counter to them (no ranged weapons) - blame yourself, not HC.

Second, the point of this thread was to show, that HC is a proper class, that can kill enemy.
So basically what you say is that hybrid is a must, and by "hybrid" I mean buying an xbow with 1wpf in it. Allow me a minute to puke before I type the rest...

<OK I am back>

So you made a thread showing it can kill. I should start a thread telling how I killed a knight with a stone as a level 1 peasant. Stones kill two. I also has 3 kills with a long dagger as a peasant.

HC is a viable setup like any other. It is more annoying that most others especially when they are the last one the field. On my team I'd take a player with a fork to fight by my side over a HC that will kite around and shoot the terrain anyday. There are only few exceptions.
Title: Re: Horse Crossbowman "sucks"
Post by: kongxinga on April 19, 2011, 04:24:55 am
Horse crossbows are deadly against HA in the right situations. Back when HA were powerful instead of the skillbased situational class it is now, as infantry support cav I had to carry a light crossbow just so I can point it at the HA to ward them away, since showing a crossbow caused many to take evasive action. If they wanted to call my bluff, the light crossbow was accurate and damaging anough to hit them or the horse with 0 wpf. It was especially deadly in the gun to head shots when one is making a close range high speed pass, often resulting in an instant kill or dismount, which to a horseman is pretty much equivalent. Not to mention, nimble lancer giving you the headache? Pull out the crossbow and blast his light horse, that will teach him.

Pure cav who do not wish to carry infantry only weapons can outfit themselves with lance, shield and light crossbow to deal with all the dangers of mounted combat in 4 slots.

HA versus HC fights are quite entertaining. The Ha does not want to get into close range drive by shots, where the crossbow will have the advantage. The HA also wants to shoot the HC while he is reloading. So HC will chase as HA wants to keep the fight at high speeds, then HA will chase the HC while HC is reloading. Close range shots is usually a tossup, but the HC can cause massive damage if he hits. Do not trot about while fighting the HC since the HC will win, and HA's higher rate of fire allows more adjustments while shooting at top speed.