cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Lannistark on October 07, 2012, 02:19:15 pm

Title: The Art of Finesse [1 Handed No Shield] Under construction]
Post by: Lannistark on October 07, 2012, 02:19:15 pm
Hey guys, I'm working on a simple guide for the 1h users. I'm editing some images and such. I'm no pro at 1h, I'd just like to give new players a simple idea of the strengths and weaknesses of this build.

My progress you can see here:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: The Art of Finesse [1 Handed No Shield] Under construction]
Post by: Iymore on October 07, 2012, 02:41:25 pm
swashbuckling
Title: Re: The Art of Finesse [1 Handed No Shield] Under construction]
Post by: KingBread on October 07, 2012, 06:54:33 pm
impresiv
Title: Re: The Art of Finesse [1 Handed No Shield] Under construction]
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on October 09, 2012, 11:43:27 am
swashbuckling

what is the definition of this
Title: Re: The Art of Finesse [1 Handed No Shield] Under construction]
Post by: Bjord on October 09, 2012, 11:47:57 am
Uh huh.
Title: Re: The Art of Finesse [1 Handed No Shield] Under construction]
Post by: IR_Kuoin on October 09, 2012, 12:11:43 pm
Do the Jackie build and go 21/15, works perfect  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: The Art of Finesse [1 Handed No Shield] Under construction]
Post by: Ubereem on October 10, 2012, 10:48:34 am
what is the definition of this
The word "swashbuckler" generally describes a protagonist who is heroic and idealistic to the bone and who rescues damsels in distress. His nemesis is typically characterised as the dastardly villain.

 :lol: seriously though its basically a fighting style. A fencer type who uses a single sword and maybe a buckle in his off hand. those 3 musketeers were basically swashbucklers

OT: I like my 1h toon to have lots of ath so I can move in out in out. I do block but I prefer to dodge most attacks.
Title: Re: The Art of Finesse [1 Handed No Shield] Under construction]
Post by: Byrdi on October 22, 2012, 10:10:05 am
Just remember to post your guide in the subforum titled "Guides". :D
Title: Re: The Art of Finesse [1 Handed No Shield] Under construction]
Post by: Turboflex on October 22, 2012, 04:32:25 pm
I would have to say an AGI build is quite important for this. 18-21 at least, maybe even 8 athletics, and no armor over 12 weight. Stick to 8-12

I am a shielder but I practice swashbuckling on duel server for fun and to improve my manual blocking (which isn't very good since I use shield all the time), and my 24-15 build just sucks for it. Decent duelists with greatswords and even longer dueling polearms just dance outside of my range. With a shield I can just put it down and bullrush them and then maintain position so lower athletics doesn't hurt me, but without it I have to play that dancing game too which I inevitebly lose with a much shorter range weapon and lower athletics.

I would think a long weapon like long espada would be useful too, so would making use of that stab. You'd also need to be really good at holds, footwork and headshots to make up for low damage of only 6 PS.
Title: Re: The Art of Finesse [1 Handed No Shield] Under construction]
Post by: Teeth on October 22, 2012, 07:27:28 pm
I would have to say an AGI build is quite important for this. 18-21 at least, maybe even 8 athletics, and no armor over 12 weight. Stick to 8-12

I am a shielder but I practice swashbuckling on duel server for fun and to improve my manual blocking (which isn't very good since I use shield all the time), and my 24-15 build just sucks for it. Decent duelists with greatswords and even longer dueling polearms just dance outside of my range. With a shield I can just put it down and bullrush them and then maintain position so lower athletics doesn't hurt me, but without it I have to play that dancing game too which I inevitebly lose with a much shorter range weapon and lower athletics.

I would think a long weapon like long espada would be useful too, so would making use of that stab. You'd also need to be really good at holds, footwork and headshots to make up for low damage of only 6 PS.
Crap advice, I had no problems at all with 5 athlethics and 16 weight body armor. 1h's are not that short and you need that damage. I'll see if I can dig up a PM I once sent to a guy asking for swashbuckling advice, pretty much wrote a semi guide, use it as you see fit Duke.

Edit: Apparently responses to other people's PM's do not get saved, nevermind.
Title: Re: The Art of Finesse [1 Handed No Shield] Under construction]
Post by: TurmoilTom on October 22, 2012, 08:19:54 pm
I would have to say an AGI build is quite important for this. 18-21 at least, maybe even 8 athletics, and no armor over 12 weight. Stick to 8-12

I am a shielder but I practice swashbuckling on duel server for fun and to improve my manual blocking (which isn't very good since I use shield all the time), and my 24-15 build just sucks for it. Decent duelists with greatswords and even longer dueling polearms just dance outside of my range. With a shield I can just put it down and bullrush them and then maintain position so lower athletics doesn't hurt me, but without it I have to play that dancing game too which I inevitebly lose with a much shorter range weapon and lower athletics.

I would think a long weapon like long espada would be useful too, so would making use of that stab. You'd also need to be really good at holds, footwork and headshots to make up for low damage of only 6 PS.

Thol can easily top boards with his 24/15 build with light armor and a long espada.

I don't know what game you're playing.
Title: Re: The Art of Finesse [1 Handed No Shield] Under construction]
Post by: Turboflex on October 22, 2012, 08:31:07 pm
talking about duel arena not battle, and fighting good duelists with weps twice as long as yours.
Title: Re: The Art of Finesse [1 Handed No Shield] Under construction]
Post by: Froto_the_Loc on October 22, 2012, 10:54:20 pm
It REALLY depends on the weapon.
But, in my opinion, a longer weapon should have more strength to damage with.
And a shorter weapon should have more agility to move with.

Either way, unless you are Bob, you are gonna glance. It's inevitable.
Title: Re: The Art of Finesse [1 Handed No Shield] Under construction]
Post by: Phew on October 23, 2012, 05:11:23 pm
talking about duel arena not battle, and fighting good duelists with weps twice as long as yours.

I assume Turbo was dueling with an axe, a tough proposition regardless of build. Dueling with a 1h sword is basically like dueling with a gimped Longsword (less damage, worse animations), but doesn't require an agility build to do OK.
Title: Re: The Art of Finesse [1 Handed No Shield] Under construction]
Post by: Teeth on October 23, 2012, 06:12:13 pm
Dueling with a 1h sword is basically like dueling with a gimped Longsword (less damage, worse animations)
1h animations are pretty awesome.
Title: Re: The Art of Finesse [1 Handed No Shield] Under construction]
Post by: Phew on October 23, 2012, 06:38:08 pm
1h animations are pretty awesome.

1h and polearm are in the same boat. They each get one awesome animation (left swing for 1h, right swing for pole), but every other attack direction has a major malus that offsets the benefits of that attack direction. For instance for 1h:

Left Swing: Fast, hits head, and won't glance, but no reach bonus.
Right swing: Reach bonus, but huge delay and will glance during the first ~40% of the animation
Thrust: Reach bonus, but will glance during the first and last 20% of the animation. Wonky hitbox way off to the right of the actual animation.
Overhead: Nothing special (good or bad)

Compare that to 2h:

Left swing: Reach bonus, won't glance
Right swing: Reach bonus, won't glance
Thrust: Massive reach bonus, but glances during first ~10% of animation (feel free to correct this one, I'm not sure of the 2h thrust "sweet spot")
Overhead: Reach bonus

So maybe subjectively some people will say "1h animations are good", but objectively, they just have more drawbacks than 2h animations do.
Title: Re: The Art of Finesse [1 Handed No Shield] Under construction]
Post by: Teeth on October 23, 2012, 08:06:01 pm
The 1h rightswing is a great animation. Especially as a 1h without shield, you have to rely on that range, which is very deceptive. You can play the range game with 120 reach greatswords if you learn how to use it. It is not all that slow. So you have one superfast animation for short range, which basically has no equal as far as speed goes. And you have one long range animation which gives you nice versatility overall. Nice thing about the overhead is that it kinda looks like a leftswing, feinting those two can confuse a lot of opponents. The overhead is also very fast if you hit the head, easy to aim and longer than you would think, actually my favourite attack until the turn speed nerf. It still works fine.

Agreed on the 1h stab, it cannot be trusted. It can insta-stab like crazy and has basically zero recovery time. So once you get a hit in you can keep spamming it.

2h thrust is amazing these days though, so no class has animations that compare to the 2h. The thrust glances during no part of the animation when turned right. It does good damage from start to finish. You can swipe the 2h into an opponent at the ass end of its animation and it will still hit. This is a major imbalance imo and if the thrust will glance at the start of the animation like it used to, animation balance is fine. Drawback for the 2h overhead is that it's harder to aim because it swings slightly out of the center of the screen, unlike the polearm one which is really easy to aim.
Title: Re: The Art of Finesse [1 Handed No Shield] Under construction]
Post by: Phew on October 23, 2012, 08:42:18 pm
Are the delays for all attack animations compiled in one place? I remember seeing Paul post a few of them, but I'd be curious to see the full list. If I remember correctly, 1h left swing is something like 150ms faster than 1h right swing.
Title: Re: The Art of Finesse [1 Handed No Shield] Under construction]
Post by: Lannistark on October 23, 2012, 08:54:24 pm
The whole point of being 1h is that it requires more skill, more intuition if you like than other builds. Thus making it more self-satisfying whenever you kill an experienced enemy with a 1h no shield. You have to watch out for the outreach, 2h stab (if fight against those), kicks, and overall fighting in a way you are not comfortable with, as your opponent is forcing you to adopt a new tactic in order to be able to face him.

In other words, 1h no shield teaches you how to really play the game. Several things in your mind while you play, watch out for his outreach, his kicks, spam etc, and at the same time remain concentrated on the game. It overall improves awareness, footwork, and the ability to adopt new tactics depending on the opponent your are facing.

Title: Re: The Art of Finesse [1 Handed No Shield] Under construction]
Post by: Duckzern on October 23, 2012, 09:23:32 pm
Pretty much this:

(click to show/hide)
Love ya' Teeth
Title: Re: The Art of Finesse [1 Handed No Shield] Under construction]
Post by: Teeth on October 23, 2012, 09:45:38 pm
Ah there it is thanks. If you think there is something useful in there Duke, it's free of copyright.
Title: Re: The Art of Finesse [1 Handed No Shield] Under construction]
Post by: Turboflex on October 23, 2012, 10:17:19 pm
The whole point of being 1h is that it requires more skill, more intuition if you like than other builds. Thus making it more self-satisfying whenever you kill an experienced enemy with a 1h no shield. You have to watch out for the outreach, 2h stab (if fight against those), kicks, and overall fighting in a way you are not comfortable with, as your opponent is forcing you to adopt a new tactic in order to be able to face him.

In other words, 1h no shield teaches you how to really play the game. Several things in your mind while you play, watch out for his outreach, his kicks, spam etc, and at the same time remain concentrated on the game. It overall improves awareness, footwork, and the ability to adopt new tactics depending on the opponent your are facing.

That's why I like doing it on duel server even tho I mostly get my ass kicked. It's great practice but very very hard to win against skilled players.