cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Lorenzo_of_Iberia on October 04, 2012, 02:39:13 pm

Title: [BALANCE] Javelins
Post by: Lorenzo_of_Iberia on October 04, 2012, 02:39:13 pm
Javelins are seriously lacking compared to their bigger brothers, the jarids. While the jarids are strong (for throwing :P ), javelins are weaker (suprisingly despite only 6 difference in pierce), way weaker than they should be for the price. It takes me 3 javelins in the chest of a medium armoured cavalry man, charging towards me (so speed bonus) for him to die. I realise I am using 5 pt, but there is 145 wpf and mw javelins going into that armour :P

I suggest that some sort of buff be applied to javelins (at least). Maybe a damage increase, or add 1 more javelin per stack or even just lower the price to match the cost.

Yes this is a buff that would help me out, but at the same time I think many would agree that javelins are under represented in crpg.

Edit : throwing spears look a little weak as well, they could definitely do with a price reduction imo.
Title: Re: [BALANCE] Javelins
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on October 04, 2012, 04:43:29 pm
Throwing spears are good, got 4 ammo, jarrids and javs got 3.
Title: Re: [BALANCE] Javelins
Post by: Gravoth_iii on October 04, 2012, 07:12:41 pm
Javelins have better accuracy dont they? And with the low requirement they can be used with a low PT build.. Throwing spears have 4 ammo which is nasty.
Title: Re: [BALANCE] Javelins
Post by: Lorenzo_of_Iberia on October 04, 2012, 07:43:58 pm
I've used all the throwing weapons and with the random accuracy of throwing and the large cross hair, the accuracy increase is very little tbh, almost unnoticable
Title: Re: [BALANCE] Javelins
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on October 04, 2012, 10:33:50 pm
I've used all the throwing weapons and with the random accuracy of throwing and the large cross hair, the accuracy increase is very little tbh, almost unnoticable
Wrong.
Title: Re: [BALANCE] Javelins
Post by: Tzar on October 04, 2012, 10:58:43 pm
So you use javelins and cant afford or be able to use some of higher tier throwing weapons  :?:

Thus you feel a need to buff your own weapon  :lol:

No..... just no....

Its a bit like saying you would want [Insert Random lower tier 1h/2h/polearm an make it better than its higher tier counterpart]
Title: Re: [BALANCE] Javelins
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on October 04, 2012, 10:59:52 pm
So you use javelins and cant afford or be able to use some of higher tier throwing weapons  :?:

Thus you feel a need to buff your own weapon  :lol:

No..... just no....
Actually you're wrong here, he uses javs because he's in love with how they look and he got them 3+'d.
Title: Re: [BALANCE] Javelins
Post by: Lorenzo_of_Iberia on October 04, 2012, 11:48:10 pm
Javelins are my thing, the other pierce throwing weapons never appealed. I'm asking for them to be reviewed because I think that they are not nearly worth the money atm. Simple as, just like the wakazashi isn't worth the gold to use :P

Plus I am not asking it to be better than jarids or throwing spears, just closer to them in competetiveness. If Javelins were better than them then I'd ask for a nerf :P
Title: Re: [BALANCE] Javelins
Post by: oohillac on October 04, 2012, 11:50:50 pm
No extra damage, but I think an extra missile per stack would be fair.
Title: Re: [BALANCE] Javelins
Post by: Tzar on October 04, 2012, 11:52:02 pm
All throwing could use a ammo buff but dont forget throwing is the most hated item class ingame by devs so dont count your hopes for a buff
Title: Re: [BALANCE] Javelins
Post by: Rebelyell on October 05, 2012, 12:31:28 am
throwing need more ammo or less prize
that class is a lite bit unbalanced imo.
Title: Re: [BALANCE] Javelins
Post by: Turboflex on October 05, 2012, 08:11:55 pm
Javelins are pretty weak, but they shouldn't be buffed in power to compete with jarids.

I think boosting ammo to 4 would be fair, so they have more appeal as a skirmishing weapon, while jarid is more of a stopping weapon.
Title: Re: [BALANCE] Javelins
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on October 05, 2012, 08:13:53 pm
I suggest buffing ammo to 5 and then lowering damage somewhat, it'd make it viable without making it a copy of a jarid or a throwing spear.
Title: Re: [BALANCE] Javelins
Post by: Spa_geh_tea on October 06, 2012, 02:16:12 am
I suggest buffing ammo to 5 and then lowering damage somewhat, it'd make it eviable without making it a copy of a jarid or a throwing spear.

Yes this. Make it the next step in damage from wardarts and the next step down in ammo count.
Title: Re: [BALANCE] Javelins
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on October 06, 2012, 09:15:16 am
I dunno, javelins are in line with the pricing of heavy throwing axes. If you want one more per stack, upgrade to throwing spears. If you want more damage, upgrade to jarids. Invest more money and skill points to have a better item option  :?: :?: :?:
Title: Re: [BALANCE] Javelins
Post by: Mendro on October 06, 2012, 08:37:33 pm
And in this way it's time to think about fransisca and throwing axes. Because for throwers there is just 4 options : throwing lances , Jarids , Heavy throwing axes or war darts (maybe stones for trololo)
Title: Re: [BALANCE] Javelins
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on October 06, 2012, 08:50:08 pm
And in this way it's time to think about fransisca and throwing axes. Because for throwers there is just 4 options : throwing lances , Jarids , Heavy throwing axes or war darts (maybe stones for trololo)
And throwing spears, and throwing daggers.
Title: Re: [BALANCE] Javelins
Post by: Mendro on October 06, 2012, 09:02:46 pm
And throwing spears, and throwing daggers.

Yes I forgot throwing spears. But throwing daggers ? Lol , it's just for ninja
Title: Re: [BALANCE] Javelins
Post by: Kafein on October 06, 2012, 09:32:33 pm
I use Tor Wing Spears and they are awesome. I never hit what I intended to but what's important is the intention.
Title: Re: [BALANCE] Javelins
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on October 06, 2012, 10:41:39 pm
But throwing daggers ? Lol , it's just for ninja
Wrong, have you even bothered looking at the stats before making such a flawed comment? Throwing daggers definitely have their usages and they are definitely an alternative to war darts, they deal the same base damage, however, the throwing daggers are cut and the darts pierce, now, this is a huge difference but on the other hand the daggers got various buffs in the other stats, they have 2 more ammunition, and while it may sound like a small quantity for archers it's actually quite a lot compared to the war darts 6 ammunition. Now, throwing daggers also beat the war darts at speed with a huge 10, all in all making them ideal for spamming, they also only have 1 difficulty, allowing for pure agility builds and usage from level 1.

Also, for pure infantry throwing at kiters/incoming enemies I'd also recommend throwing knives over stones, as knives got 8 more damage (however, this is cut and not blunt), 11 more speed, and only 3 less ammo.
Title: Re: [BALANCE] Javelins
Post by: Overdriven on October 07, 2012, 01:00:00 am
Nothing more annoying than riding along to hear a 'thump thump thump' and thinking wtf is that hitting my horse at this speed...no arrows no nothing. Only when you're downed and dead do you look at the horses body and see tiny shiny things sticking out of it. Fing high PT dagger throwing bastards.
Title: Re: [BALANCE] Javelins
Post by: Lichen on October 07, 2012, 03:40:04 am
buff ammo to 5, reduce damage to 29
Title: Re: [BALANCE] Javelins
Post by: Lorenzo_of_Iberia on October 07, 2012, 01:55:12 pm
On the subject of throwing axes, I really think they also could do with a buff. I have said that most of throwing is in dire need of an overhaul.

However throwing axes do cut damage, which makes them arguably better at killing. Here is why :

To kill an archer in light armour - 3 javelins, 2 throwing axes
To kill a peasant - 2 javelins (sometimes 3 I have found), 1 throwing axe (whenever i wear a robe on foot, a single throwing axe kills me)
To kill a horse - 5 fecking javelins in a courser (this is insane), 2-3 throwing axes I find will take a courser down.

Basically while javelins do pierce damage making them do more damage against armour, they are still pretty pathetic against armour as I have explained. Throwing axes do cut, so do jack shit against armour but against a lighter opponent they give a great return on damage.

I still think throwing axes are still under represented and need a change, but maybe not so much as javelins.
Title: Re: [BALANCE] Javelins
Post by: Digglez on October 10, 2012, 05:32:10 am
the problem with javs is not the damage or ammo count, its the terrible speed.  They probably have the worst speed to damage ratio of any throwing.  They take forever to cock back to throw, god forbid you have to cancel your throw and pull back again.

I dont see why drawing & throwing a straight piece of wood (with a pointy end) should take twice as long as a throwing axe/hammer/dagger/star that need to be gripped and thrown in a certain manner
Title: Re: [BALANCE] Javelins
Post by: Digglez on November 06, 2012, 01:39:45 am
heres a little chart I made for looking at some numbers in strat....as you can see for the mid range throwing..javelins dead fucking last.  Used weapon damage calculator to find damage, then multiplied average damage by ammo count / cost

Couldnt figure out how to label the red & blue.

Blue = PT 4, 90 WPF
Red = PT 5, 105 WPF

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As you see, some of the PT3 things need boost in some way.  Like getting 4 ammo for franciscas & hammers


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Quote from: Balance Team
EVERYTHING IS BALANCED AND OK
Title: Re: [BALANCE] Javelins
Post by: Mendro on November 06, 2012, 05:05:51 pm
(click to show/hide)

Yes but devs don't care about throwing.
Title: Re: [BALANCE] Javelins
Post by: Gimest on November 09, 2012, 06:47:20 am
Love for throwing! We gotta have peace!  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZeKT0UctOQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZeKT0UctOQ)
Title: Re: [BALANCE] Javelins
Post by: Strider on November 10, 2012, 07:33:36 pm
Agreed. Javellins in Native naturally have 5 ammo per stack. It should be increased to 4 for cRPG. Also the damage and shoot speed should go up by 1.