cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: owens on September 27, 2012, 09:23:02 am

Title: 1.5 slot items
Post by: owens on September 27, 2012, 09:23:02 am
I know, know I have said it before.

bastard swords, katana, light lance, goedendag, x-bow (or maybe H-x-bow) some spears and maybe some of the longer/meaner 1H's only use 1.5 weapon slots so a man at arms can take a bastard sword (1.5) a light-lance (1.5) and a shield 1.5+1.5+1=4.

However he cannot take a heavy lance, bastard sword and a shield. 2+1.5+1=4.5

An x-bow man can take a goedendag or a bastard sword his x-bow and bolts. 1.5+1.5+1=4, but he cant take a great sword or poleaxe into battle.



Cool idea isn't it. Allows certain classes that didn't exist before while efficiently limiting their specific effectiveness doesn't it.


So do it.

I could also suggest 2.5 and .5 slot weapons but it is probably too soon. Ninja can take wakizashi .5 + katana 1.5 + Nodachi 2= 4  8-)???????????




edit:... added another thought to stop nerf mentality thanks for all the effort though really appreciate people taking my ideas seriously


(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: Cepeshi on September 27, 2012, 09:41:17 am
Would require quite a lot thinking to make it balanced, but anything that adds up to diversity gets +1 from me  8-)
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: owens on September 27, 2012, 11:02:54 am
^Thanks

I really appreciate positive input.


People have argued in the past that it would make cav OP but tbh using 3 different wpf on one char +shield skill +riding is really pushing most builds away from battle-winners but it would be great for a lot of people who want to role play.

Im not trying to rewrite cRPG just trying to get it to a stage where we can have an AUS community.
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: Moncho on September 27, 2012, 11:06:14 am
But only if you make the top end greatswords and poles 2.5 or 3 slots.
I hate how a shielder/archer/crossbowman requires 3 slots to have top end equipment while poles and 2hers can have 2 top end weapons perfectly.
More 2hers and poles should be over 2 slots imo, regardless of this suggestion, which would not be bad at all.
A question: would 0 slot items become 0.5 or stay at 0?, or maybe some in each category?
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: owens on September 27, 2012, 11:18:59 am
^

It would be nice if some of the short swords became .5

I would personally avoid more nerfs these 2H are already very slow and don't do very much damage compared to how it used to be.
I would rather buff archery or create new sub classes say a 1.5 slot bow (old warbow model :?: hint hint) so a bastard sword could be carried (like a ranger).


Nerfing isn't the only solution, 90% of the time the best solution (also the most labour intensive) is making a new counter or buffing a very specific counter (trying to cause prevent a flow on of endless buffing).
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: Cepeshi on September 27, 2012, 11:21:57 am
Well, as for the longswords, the biggest problem with those being two slot "only" means, that you can also have pocket maul for them pesky shielders.

The balancing of these could be made purely by weight. That is somewhat acceptable, at least for me. That would put a stop to them maul/sworders, yet you still could have some backup weapon for hard situations. Was wondering how it would be with bowmen tho, i would not mind having long/rus take 2,5 slots, whereas the arrows could take 0,5. If you would want to affect the top tier of weaponry for melee, do the same for ranged. (no problem with some low end onehanders being 0,5 here)

I do remember times, when you could have flamberge sheathed, and secondary pocket pike. That was not good, lots of fun, yeah, but not good balance wise.

Still i think this would require a lot of time and work from the dev team and since new strat is launched, i guess they are busy elsewhere  8-)
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on September 27, 2012, 11:30:57 am
But only if you make the top end greatswords and poles 2.5 or 3 slots.
I hate how a shielder/archer/crossbowman requires 3 slots to have top end equipment while poles and 2hers can have 2 top end weapons perfectly.
More 2hers and poles should be over 2 slots imo, regardless of this suggestion, which would not be bad at all.
A question: would 0 slot items become 0.5 or stay at 0?, or maybe some in each category?

Long maul - 3 Slots
Long Spear - 3 Slots
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: Cepeshi on September 27, 2012, 11:34:32 am
Long maul - 3 Slots
Long Spear - 3 Slots

yeah, that is true, there are even more with 3 slots (pike, flamb) and even worse, them two slot stuff you can use as lower versions are mostly unsheatable :(
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: Moncho on September 27, 2012, 12:19:29 pm
Long maul - 3 Slots
Long Spear - 3 Slots

Yes Nic, I know about those, but they are not the most used 2h/poles by far. I was referring to the greatswords (german or danish are sooo rarely used), and the poleaxes/axes/glaive, etc (not all of them though, maybe do it by length and weight together in some way (as weight AND length both affect the ease of using a weapon. It could be balanced a bit by increasing slightly the stats of the weapons that are about to become 3 slots, to compensate. This would also lead to more people using the second tier weapons, a nice thing that happens with 1hers but much less often with poles/2hers, just because the top tier ones are so much better with very few worse things.


@Cepeshi: According to the website, the only 3 slot 2her is the Great Maul, and the only 3 slot polearms are Pike, Long Spear and Long Maul..
Also I do not mind a guy being able to have a secondary mallet, I find it smart and useful for the team, but he should have to sacrifice a bit of his top end damage to do this imo. The specialization argument so used against my hybridising...

EDIT: In short, make them have the same dillema I have when making a hybrid: a great one option, or two second tier for more versatility
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: Cepeshi on September 27, 2012, 12:24:03 pm
Yes Nic, I know about those, but they are not the most used 2h/poles by far. I was referring to the greatswords (german or danish are sooo rarely used), and the poleaxes/axes/glaive, etc (not all of them though, maybe do it by length and weight together in some way (as weight AND length both affect the ease of using a weapon. It could be balanced a bit by increasing slightly the stats of the weapons that are about to become 3 slots, to compensate. This would also lead to more people using the second tier weapons, a nice thing that happens with 1hers but much less often with poles/2hers, just because the top tier ones are so much better with very few worse things.


@Cepeshi: According to the website, the only 3 slot 2her is the Great Maul, and the only 3 slot polearms are Pike, Long Spear and Long Maul..
Also I do not mind a guy being able to have a secondary mallet, I find it smart and useful for the team, but he should have to sacrifice a bit of his top end damage to do this imo. The specialization argument so used against my hybridising...

true dat, flam just got the unshittable "bonus", my bad there :) The length and weight together somehow forming a formula to follow while deciding how many slots item should take sounds cool. Those all weapons were made three slots so you couldnt have a good secondary weapon with them, which somewhat makes sense.
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: Jarlek on September 27, 2012, 12:37:51 pm
Yes Nic, I know about those, but they are not the most used 2h/poles by far. I was referring to the greatswords (german or danish are sooo rarely used), and the poleaxes/axes/glaive, etc (not all of them though, maybe do it by length and weight together in some way (as weight AND length both affect the ease of using a weapon. It could be balanced a bit by increasing slightly the stats of the weapons that are about to become 3 slots, to compensate. This would also lead to more people using the second tier weapons, a nice thing that happens with 1hers but much less often with poles/2hers, just because the top tier ones are so much better with very few worse things.


@Cepeshi: According to the website, the only 3 slot 2her is the Great Maul, and the only 3 slot polearms are Pike, Long Spear and Long Maul..
Also I do not mind a guy being able to have a secondary mallet, I find it smart and useful for the team, but he should have to sacrifice a bit of his top end damage to do this imo. The specialization argument so used against my hybridising...

EDIT: In short, make them have the same dillema I have when making a hybrid: a great one option, or two second tier for more versatility
Amen.

I don't mind a people using a Mallet and a longsword, but it does annoy me when they use a GGS and a Mallet. Same with poleaxe and awlpike.
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: Kafein on September 27, 2012, 12:40:03 pm
Hardcore and mean suggestion :

All 2h above the HGS (included) + war cleaver, morningstar, bar mace, great axe, mallet and great bardiche : 2.5 slots
Flamberge and great maul : 3 slots
All poleaxes + glaive, GLA, GLB, swiss halberd, english bill, long voulge, pike, long spear and long maul : 3 slots
For the other polearms :  length < 150 => 2 slots, others 2.5 slots

1h : all 1 slot except if length<95 and weight<2, then 0.5 slots.
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: Moncho on September 27, 2012, 12:53:50 pm
Hardcore and mean suggestion :

All 2h above the HGS (included) + war cleaver, morningstar, bar mace, great axe, mallet and great bardiche : 2.5 slots
Flamberge and great maul : 3 slots
All poleaxes + glaive, GLA, GLB, swiss halberd, english bill, long voulge, pike, long spear and long maul : 3 slots
For the other polearms :  length < 150 => 2 slots, others 2.5 slots

1h : all 1 slot except if length<95 and weight<2, then 0.5 slots.

That might be a little bit too much, but its along the lines of what I would like.
Not sure about 1hers though, might be too high a treshold. (90 length and 1.5 weight might be better, things like nordic war sword, or some axes fit here i think, also niuweidao).
About 2hers, also bastards, katana, axe (under 2 weight) might be 1.5 slots.

About poles, ok mostly, not sure about the swiss halberd, but some should be 1.5, what about the boar spear, iron staff and maybe jousting lance?
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: dodnet on September 27, 2012, 01:09:00 pm
For the other polearms :  length < 150 => 2 slots, others 2.5 slots

Light Lance, Bamboo spear & others 2.5 slots? And no more hoplites with Ashwood and 2 slot shields...

I think it should be selected more by weight than length.
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: owens on September 27, 2012, 01:45:42 pm
No No No.

Don,t go ape shit. Start with buffing not nerfing.



I don't want every second weapon to a non integer slot user. I want a few select weapons, x-bows and bows. The idea being that new classes and armament choices can exist.

Look think about it this way If I carry a ordinary spear and a Heavy shield I should be allowed to carry a short sword as I am using two below average weapons which hopefully will give me versatility (fair enough?). However I shouldn't  be prevented from taking the more powerful more specific road in the ash-wood + 0slot road should I?

Remember the goal of every cRPG player and forum member should be to make more people play not ruin other peoples fun.
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: Jarlek on September 27, 2012, 04:42:17 pm
Light Lance, Bamboo spear & others 2.5 slots? And no more hoplites with Ashwood and 2 slot shields...

I think it should be selected more by weight than length.
Remember that polearms only get the rear horses if they are 141 length or more. Presonally I want all the shorter spears to be 1 or 1.5 slots (since they cant rear horses).
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: Kafein on September 27, 2012, 05:02:27 pm
That might be a little bit too much, but its along the lines of what I would like.
Not sure about 1hers though, might be too high a treshold. (90 length and 1.5 weight might be better, things like nordic war sword, or some axes fit here i think, also niuweidao).
About 2hers, also bastards, katana, axe (under 2 weight) might be 1.5 slots.

Definetly yes.

About poles, ok mostly, not sure about the swiss halberd, but some should be 1.5, what about the boar spear, iron staff and maybe jousting lance?

I don't know about the cav lances, they are a touchy subject. A lancer without sidearm is kinda meh, but a lancer with a poleaxe on his back is just plain OP and retarded. The swiss halberd is already a decent duelling weapon tbh, and there's no reason to give that one 2 slots specifically



Light Lance, Bamboo spear & others 2.5 slots? And no more hoplites with Ashwood and 2 slot shields...

I think it should be selected more by weight than length.

We could very well have 1.5 slot shields too. The huscarl and steel shield should stay 2 slots though, if not more.


Also, all equipment with a 2.5 or higher slot value should be unsheathable, all above or equal to 3 unbalanced (let the poleaxe/GLA/glaive aboozers cry when nerfed by the holy reality check hammer).
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: owens on September 27, 2012, 11:49:46 pm
^ sorry Kafein I have to interject on the shield front.

NO .5 slot shields as a hoplite or man at arms should never get a shield and lance and bastard sword in one package.

I would therefore try my best to avoid shields getting involved thanks a lot anyway for the thought though.

"It is a fairly elegant solution to all this bastard sword one slot nonsense." (wefyb)

I maintain however that light lance, spear, double sided lance and that kind of thing should be 1.5 slot. You could say balance over length. It would be more acceptable for bamboo spear to become 1.5 than ash-wood pike wouldn't it?  I would leave decisions like that to the devs and hope they do the right thing by the community. The purpose is to open new pathways in character design and to try to make the game better.

Remember if x-bows, hybrid-archers and hybrid-cav become a larger threat it in melee polearm and 2H will suffer without any mechanics changing.
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: Dalfador on September 27, 2012, 11:52:05 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: owens on September 27, 2012, 11:59:42 pm
Also light lance must be 1.5 slots because it is where my idea came from.
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: Moncho on September 28, 2012, 12:05:08 am
NO .5 slot shields as a hoplite or man at arms should never get a shield and lance and bastard sword in one package.


I maintain however that light lance, spear, double sided lance and that kind of thing should be 1.5 slot. You could say balance over length. It would be more acceptable for bamboo spear to become 1.5 than ash-wood pike wouldn't it?  I would leave decisions like that to the devs and hope they do the right thing by the community. The purpose is to open new pathways in character design and to try to make the game better.

Remember if x-bows, hybrid-archers and hybrid-cav become a larger threat it in melee polearm and 2H will suffer without any mechanics changing.
Kafein did not suggest 0.5 shields, but 1.5, as an intermediate stage, compared to the current 1 to 2 jump.
I think the bamboo should stay at 2 slots (very long), not sure about the other ones.
x-bows hybrids would probably not be more effective since I don't think any crossbow would go under 1 slot, and I am not sure about how many slots per quiver of arrows/bolts.
hybrid archer's biggest problem is not the slots, but the need to sacrifice most of their WPF and many skill points for this (instead of 18/21 go 15/21 or 18/18 for example).
Hybrid cav would have to adapt. The heavy lance should go to 2.5 slots, the lance stay at 2 and not sure about the other ones, and we would be preventing them from getting a secondary top tier weapon (2.5 slots), which would harm them. They could however go for a worse lance and get a better dismounted weapon, being able to get a 1.5 slot light lance and a 2.5 top tier dismounted weapon (though no shield).  Its all about the balance.
As I said before, choose either great at one thing, or good at two (lancing on horse or on foot in this case) (well, or mediocre at 3, or even worse at 4, etc).
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: owens on September 28, 2012, 12:20:50 am
^sometimes a good weapon can make up a lot for wpf.

An archer with a 1.5 slot bow and 1.5 sword will do more damage than a 1 slot bow at range and less than a 2 slot weapon in melee yet hopefully more than a 1 slot melee.

You are correct in saying that we should be able to make that choice that atm we cannot make, although I have said it a few times...

Thanks for the input
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: OssumPawesome on September 28, 2012, 06:14:19 am
I'm not sure this is practical.  I hope it is.  It sounds awesome.
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: Chris_P_Bacon on September 28, 2012, 04:02:36 pm
I agree with this on the grounds that it is completely ridiculous that a heavy bastard (and bastard and longsword and katana and maybe a few others) take(s) up the same amount of slots as a flamberge, which is 1.5x the length and twice the weight.
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: Beauchamp on September 28, 2012, 06:45:01 pm
this is a really good idea

regarding the balance i think with Nx0.5 slot weapons it will be easier to achieve then now
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: Dalfador on September 29, 2012, 08:49:58 pm
BUMP
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: Iymore on September 29, 2012, 08:57:14 pm
MAKE STEEL BOLTS 1.5 SLOT
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: owens on October 01, 2012, 12:59:25 am
^not if it was up to me sorry.

I would also be apprehensive about making unsheathable weapons more than 2 slot. Although in a lot of ways I don't care because I don't play cRPG any more.

I just hope chadz has a plan because ATM cRPG is not very good.
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: Dalfador on October 01, 2012, 05:35:49 am
bumparooni
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: owens on October 04, 2012, 12:54:42 am
Bump
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: Strider on October 04, 2012, 03:28:46 am
Great idea right here. We really need a balance to the slot system.
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: OzyTheSage on October 04, 2012, 03:30:06 am
Was going to post this the other day and decided it was a dumb idea and didn't bother. But now I'm going to bother *shrug*

So, instead of 1.5 slot weapons, how about just keep the numbers rounded. Double the amount of available slots to 8 then redo all the current slots for weapons. So if a weapon is 2 slots currently it would then be bumped to 4 slots. This way a 3 slot weapon would be the currently proposed 1.5 slot weapon. I dunno, I just like round numbers more than decimals.
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: owens on October 04, 2012, 06:13:16 am
^ what if i wrote it down in fractions.


As far as i know the warband code does not require integer values for slot usage but changing every single weapons "stats" would be tedious that is the situation as far as i know.
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: Moncho on October 04, 2012, 08:57:41 am
Was going to post this the other day and decided it was a dumb idea and didn't bother. But now I'm going to bother *shrug*

So, instead of 1.5 slot weapons, how about just keep the numbers rounded. Double the amount of available slots to 8 then redo all the current slots for weapons. So if a weapon is 2 slots currently it would then be bumped to 4 slots. This way a 3 slot weapon would be the currently proposed 1.5 slot weapon. I dunno, I just like round numbers more than decimals.

That would not change anything, and would make most people have to readjust their thinking more than from 1 to 1.5 imo
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: yetuyetu on October 04, 2012, 12:49:50 pm
I support this idea.
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: POOPHAMMER on October 04, 2012, 01:26:44 pm
i wont be happy until i can carry a great maul, flamberge, pike and a siege ladder all at once again
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: LordBerenger on October 04, 2012, 01:42:20 pm
i wont be happy until i can carry a great maul, flamberge, pike and a siege ladder all at once again

Skip Pike and take 2 siege ladders instead.
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: Zandieer on October 04, 2012, 10:19:45 pm
I'd love to have this. Personally, I'd give away a stack of arrows just to do this:

http://youtu.be/OF0JpDiW33c?t=3m22s
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: owens on October 06, 2012, 11:07:19 am
^Great video, although that guy has no idea what he is doing with those weapons.



I want a damned chadz opinion ffs.  chadz you dog show your face.
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: Moncho on October 06, 2012, 11:10:58 am
I want a damned chadz opinion ffs.  chadz you dog show your face.

Now you've done it... it is over, calling chadz a dog is possibly the worst mistake of your cRPG career.
Oh wait, it was joining PKs and living in AUS
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: owens on October 06, 2012, 11:25:58 am
^cute.


PK is bigger than chadz
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: owens on October 15, 2012, 11:46:47 am
bump
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: owens on November 05, 2012, 06:06:46 am
bump
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: Nordwolf on November 06, 2012, 11:49:19 pm
This is a great idea!

Actually implementing this (if Rus Bow for e.g. became 1.5 slot) you buff archers, but not in the way of increasing accuracy etc., but in the way of making them more efficent in combat.
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: Quentry on November 14, 2012, 04:49:24 pm
I think this is a cool idea, but devs should think about balance before do it
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: owens on January 06, 2013, 07:39:15 am
Bump
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: Shaksie on January 06, 2013, 10:16:00 am
This!
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: Don_Montega on February 08, 2013, 06:27:01 pm
Change your fractions to full numbers,
and increase the available slots.
That would reduce calculating errors.

Also, correct the *damned* crpg equipment site to show the real
amount of slots used for an equipped item
e.g. shields dont have a SLOT statistic there,
made me spend money without sense.
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: owens on March 13, 2013, 11:44:56 pm
 Bump in light of recent changes to 1 hand weapon slot usage and in knowledge of a corrections patch.
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: Abay on March 13, 2013, 11:49:45 pm
Unrealist things make this mod worst. Like slot thing. well, the general idea of this thread maybe good for some players but I mean the whole slot thing. Why cannot a man carry a bow, some arrows, a shield and a lance? why? only reason can be the weakness of the person, not having no enough slots. That makes me laugh   :mrgreen:  Dat slot thing, hahaa
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: LordRichrich on March 13, 2013, 11:56:01 pm
Unrealist things make this mod worst. Like slot thing. well, the general idea of this thread maybe good for some players but I mean the whole slot thing. Why cannot a man carry a bow, some arrows, a shield and a lance? why? only reason can be the weakness of the person, not having no enough slots. That makes me laugh   :mrgreen:  Dat slot thing, hahaa

Yeah fuck realism. Give plate armour and armoured horses their realistic prowess!

Fucking hell -.-
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: Abay on March 14, 2013, 12:12:30 am
Yeah fuck realism. Give plate armour and armoured horses their realistic prowess!

Fucking hell -.-

Lol, an arrow just ignores that plate and swimm in your flesh. Realism forever. The main game warband raised with its realism and cRPG is still in same step while its devs are trying to balance classes and making one arrow 500g  :mrgreen:  idk if it is sad or funny. Maybe I should call this shame
Title: Re: 1.5 slot items
Post by: owens on May 03, 2013, 02:19:41 pm
BUMP


This is a very popular idea can i have a response!